for the "long range" shooter with more than one rifle... balistics cards

[Magnum Wheel Man]

so before I begin, I'm not a technological dinosaur, but I do use a "dumb" phone, rather than a smart phone...

... I'm looking at just relaxing & having some fun with my bolt action rifles, at home, on my personal rifle range ( I have several threads going about scopes, & reticles already ) I've been thinking about adding a card to each rifle, with ballistics settings for the caliber / load, & scope for each rifle, with info for wind drift, temps, & elevation adjustments, etc...

curious what you long range shooters use, & what info you put on a card, or keep with the rifle... if you have a ballistic program "ap" on your phone, is why I started by stating I have a "dumb" phone...

I shoot ( right now ) from 50 - 300 yards, & have center fire bolt action rifles that that range from 17 Fireball to 416 Rigby... I have the ability, later down the road, to use a portable shooting stand, & push my range to 600-700 yards... I'm wanting to improve my skills with light, medium & heavy cartridges, doping for wind, & adjusting & getting used to shooting at longer distances, so I'd be using more than 1-2 rifles, so keeping some info at hand seems like a good idea

my thoughts are laminating a few small tags & ball chaining them to a scope base, or some out of the way spot, to keep the info with the rifle

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I found this calculator...

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmcard-5.1.cgi

& been to several sites, seen stickers put on flip up scope caps, seen different colors tags for temp ranges,

just curious to talk about what is practical, with people using them... since I'm just talking casual shooting, & ( at least to start with ) at distances only to 300 yards, what info I need will be much less than those shooting a mile in the mountains, but while my 17 fireball only drops like 7" in 600 yards, I didn't calculate all the wind variances, but I'm betting I could need to adjust 2 ft for wind with the 17... my 35 Whelen would be a complete opposite, likely only a little movement for wind, but huge elevation adjustments needed...

I see there are cards for sale, in common military calibers, of which I'd shoot 223 & 30-06 in a bolt action...

do you guys verify the calculated information at a couple distances ??? or since I have target backers at lasered 50 yard increments, am I better off just actually shooting at those distances, & could get by without calculating ???

[Jimro]

The best thing to do is build your own data book, or "dope book."

Set up targets every 50 yards from 50 to 300, and record all your scope adjustments. Record the time of day, wind direction, atmospheric pressure (if you can find it), humidity, and direction of sun light.

In my experience ballistic cards get you close, a dope book gets you on.

Jimro

[allaroundhunter]

Yep, the ballistic card is okay, but a good dope book will beat it every time.

For quick shots where you are going to take a quick wind estimate and make a fairly fast shot, your ballistic card is good for tell you what to dial in for elevation. If you have more time to make the shot and want precision, you need a log/data/dope book.

[4runnerman]

I keep one card with each rifle. Info is Distance,Zero and clicks to get where I want to. Providing you have a scope that tracks good, That is about all the info you will need. As for doping the wind,, It is just something that you learn as you move along. Being that judging the wind is next to impossable at anything more than 100 yards ( unless you have flags up). In a 500 yard shot the wind could be different many times over the 500 yards.

[603Country]

I'm just a hunter and can't be worried about dragging around a dope book. My solution to the problem has evolved to using about a 1 inch length of blue painter's tape that I stick to the top of the front bell of the scope. I write the data on the tape, such as: on at 200; down 7 at 300; down 20 at 400, and such as that. If I change loads I just replace the tape. Works great, if you're Ok with having a chunk of blue tape on your scope. And...there are other colors to choose from.

[allaroundhunter]

I'm just a hunter and can't be worried about dragging around a dope book. My solution to the problem has evolved to using about a 1 inch length of blue painter's tape that I stick to the top of the front bell of the scope. I write the data on the tape, such as: on at 200; down 7 at 300; down 20 at 400, and such as that. If I change loads I just replace the tape. Works great, if you're Ok with having a chunk of blue tape on your scope. And...there are other colors to choose from.

I keep one of these on my hunting rifles, but I keep it inside the scope cap for my scope eyepiece. That way when I flip up the scope cap, my info is right there.

[taylorce1]

I agree with keeping a notebook especially if you are only target shooting. However while hunting I'm not going to pull out a notebook and use it. I'm going to have a ballistics card of some sort taped to my stock or scope. I like JBM's ballistics cards, but lately I've been playing around on the gseven.com (http://www.gseven.com/) web site.

[hooligan1]

My Vortex riflescope has the "Deadhold Reticle", an with that I have my rifle zeroed at 100 yds, but when I use my reticle at 100 yds the poi climbs dramatically, and so I have been gven thought to finding longer range and record my findings and set that against Vortex's reticle, to make sure I'm on same page, then there's no need for paper..... I do have a sticker in my front flip-up cover that says "concentrate"...:D

[math teacher]

Out to 300 yards for deer or larger game, a card isn't necessary. By sighting in about two and a half inches high at 100 yards, you can hold dead on with everything from a .308 to a.338 all the way out to between 275 to 300 yards and stay within a six inch circle, good enough for even small deer or antelope. While you are busy figuring out ballistics, your game is most likely hightailing it out of the country. Now when the game is over that 275 to 300 range, it is time to pull out the charts. You better have a a good range finder, and have practiced a lot at long ranges. Most people have no business shooting over 300 yards at game as they have not put in the practice at those distances. Besides it is rarely necessary. Even in the west, most game is shot at less than 200 yards.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I do normally take out a clip board when I shoot, & my targets that I print up have basic information spots on the sheets... but a little ( smaller ) note book per rifle sounds like the ticket... now to figure out what type of book would be the most durable, & work the best ( I'm thinking similar to a 3 X 5" spiral bound notebook per rifle ) ???

since I have many rifles & in many calibers... I normally record...

Date
Rifle / caliber
Load
Distance
Shooting Position
Temp.
Wind Speed & direction ( currently estimated on wind speed )

I'll add...

Barometric pressure
Humidity

Scope zero
Adjustment made
Group size
POI on target


as for doping wind, I have trees lining both sides of my shooting range... which may or may not help, as some are of good size, & some are too small to block any wind... my range is in the middle of a mostly flat field on a line fence, I shoot through a long shallow valley... so I could have wind pretty effectively blocked in some areas, & other areas having open full wind force... as far as reading the wind, the leaves ( during the summer months ) offer many little wind flags but not much help 4-6 months out of the year... I have target backers ( in the form of steel 55 gallon drums ) at every 50 yards out to my backstop at a measured 300 yards... as I'm taking my recreational shooting more seriously, I've been thinking of adding a little "wire stemmed" marking flag to each barrel... ( there are 2 barrels at each 50 yard mark, so I can shoot 2 targets, or 2 people can shoot ) the barrels are rolled out of the shooting lane, when not used, to keep from blocking view of further targets down range, or to keep bullets passing through the backers, from striking targets behind them...

this set up aught to offer me good conditions for setting up my own cards or books ???

... so I was looking at some pre-printed books that the shooter just fills in... 1st priority for me... absolutely nothing "sniper" on the book... I'm shooting 8.5 X 11" sheets of paper with different sized dots on them, depending on distance... no person outline targets... can I still shoot bad guys... you bet, but in this goofy political climate, I want to stay as low key as possible, especially since this is just a relaxing target shooting sesson... so I'm inclined to just write up my own, but would like to find suggestions for something more durable, yet as easy to use as a small spiral note book...

... & of course nothing about "shooting dope" if you ever tried an internet search, you'll know what I mean ;)

[Magnum Wheel Man]

MATH... normally I'd agree with you, but I know for a fact the 45-70 cartridge drops more than that ( I have several 45-70's, but in fairness, no bolt action that I'll include with this group of rifles )

however I've not run / looked at the trajectory of the 35 Whelen... with a heavy bullet, it may have enough rainbow, to need an adjustment to get on target between 100 & 300 yards ???

plus, by next summer, I hope to push this same group of rifles out to 600 or 700 yards with the use of a portable shooting stand...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

as a side note... I was trying to understand some of what I've been reading...

there is barometric pressure ( that's easy enough ) & humidity... & there is some form of "number" that combines the pressure & humidity for calculating ??? ( used in aviation ??? )

if I had a basic 3 gauge weather station ( humidity, pressure & temp. ) in my shooting shack, that should give me the basis for the info I need ???

when learning to "dope" the wind, is this some fictitious number in my head, that equals the amount of clicks, or am I better off knowing the actual wind speed, then comparing that to my wind indicators ( be that leaves or flags ) & then knowing how many clicks to apply... reason I'm asking, is the actual wind speed can vary a lot between the muzzle & the target, so I'm wondering if knowing what the wind speed ( in a measureable number ) is important, or is learning to assign a relative wind indication more important???

[math teacher]

MGM, the cartridges you mention are outside the velocity range of the cartridges I mentioned, so of course they would have a shorter maximum dead hold range. Personally the 45-70 would not be my choice for long range though I suppose you could use most anything if you wished. It is a real thumper however.

[tobnpr]

I use Strelok now, but the G7 program/site will print your range cards...
You set up an account, and profile for multiple weapons/loads.

http://www.gseven.com/ballistic-program

[Jimro]

as a side note... I was trying to understand some of what I've been reading...

there is barometric pressure ( that's easy enough ) & humidity... & there is some form of "number" that combines the pressure & humidity for calculating ??? ( used in aviation ??? )

if I had a basic 3 gauge weather station ( humidity, pressure & temp. ) in my shooting shack, that should give me the basis for the info I need ???

Relative atmospheric density, or density altitude, I've heard it used both ways.

when learning to "dope" the wind
, is this some fictitious number in my head, that equals the amount of clicks, or am I better off knowing the actual wind speed, then comparing that to my wind indicators ( be that leaves or flags ) & then knowing how many clicks to apply... reason I'm asking, is the actual wind speed can vary a lot between the muzzle & the target, so I'm wondering if knowing what the wind speed ( in a measureable number ) is important, or is learning to assign a relative wind indication more important???

This is where you need to put a wind chart in your dope book. The white oak wind chart is the easiest I've found for folks new to precision shooting to use. It is one of the methods we teach to new SDMs. http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17889

There are all sorts of different ways to have wind corrections, some use charts, some use calculators, some use rosettes. All the methods work.

What you need is wind direction and speed. Once you have that, you referrence your chart/rosette/calculator and dial in the shot, or adjust your hold. At 1000 yards 1 mph difference in wind speed estimation is critical for accuracy. At 300, not so much depending on caliber.

Jimro

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks for all the info guys... I picked up a big package of small spiral bound notebooks ( 2.5" X 5" ) my thoughts are at the least I can start in these, for each rifle, & transfer the data to another format if I find something better later... I'm thinking this will fun to wring out the 10 - 12 bolt action rifles I have set up with decent scopes in this group ( I don't think I'll do the 416 Rigby, if for no other reason, the cost of ammo ) I'll move that to another group of rifles... I also will likely add some ballistic tags either stickers for the scope caps, or laminated tags, since there are so many rifles, that way if it's not a caliber I've shot very recently, I'll know the basics at a glance, incase I forget my note book for that specific rifle

but as I go through the scopes, & replace them, I'm looking specifically for resettable to zero turrets, & good repeatability in most... my 1st rifle... a stainless all weather Ruger 77 in .243 is in this group of rifles, & currently wears a camo Simmons 3-9 Deerfield :o I'm thinking that one will get replaced, as well as the cheapy that's currently mounted on the custom 25-06... ( FIL liked his custom rifles, but often mounted poor glass on his rifles )also thinking I may move the cheaper Fullfield Burris 3-9x that's on my fast twist 22 Hornet, as the cartridge could benefit from resettable turrets, & it's not parallax adjustable ( I'll probably move that scope to a rifle in another group, since it is still a reasonably good quality scope)

anyway, lots of sighting in to do... should have lots of writing to do in my lil note books :) hoping to get a good start on everything this summer / fall & then have the time to do the bulk of my reloading of chosen loads next winter

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I made up my 1st 5 -6 shooters notebooks last night... 1st page I listed the rifle, serial, base, scope & serial, caliber, all the basics on that particular combo, then will dedicate the other pages to each days shooting specifics, with the data previously discussed... I'm figuring if I shoot enough through the summer, fall, & into early winter, & record everything, over the winter, I should be able to do up a hot, mild, & cold weather ballistic card for each rifle, or at least the ones I shot enough to have proper data, with the data I recorded up to that point ??? then once I have ballistic cards ( thinking small laminated cards in red, yellow & blue for temp coding ) I can verify ( or challenge ) those settings in the next couple years... as I find errors or corrections, I can mark those with a sharpie on the card ( & note in my note book ) & print corrected cards later...

sounds like a plan... thanks to all who contributed...

any other comments welcome...

[tobnpr]

While custom BDC turrets aren't new, they're not cheap nor always available.

Here's an interesting idea that gets all the dope, including wind, right on the turret.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3783313.0

[allaroundhunter]

And magnum, in your data book it is okay to call known fliers. It isn't like you have to count everything. Draw pictures of your target, label your shots, and if you called a flier then mark it. You don't want to be going back looking at data and trying to figure out what caused an errant shot later when it was actually just a mess up on your part.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

again... thanks everyone for the info...

HUNTER... I've been saving targets for years ( not as convenient as just marking shots in miniature, in a log book ) & I usually throw out the best ( closest to bullseye ) & worst when calculating groups... I figure for every one I pulled ( & I'm the worst element in my shooting normally :o ) I must have gotten lucky on one as well... doing this, I feel gives me a better "real" group, & hopefully I didn't pull 2 or 3 shots :rolleyes:

TOBNPR... I thought I had been on that page yesterday, as I saw something similar... but that is a different source... I'll save the link... Thanks

[Bake]

One more [small] thing, you might want to add, to your notebook. I would make a note on what/which load I was shooting at the time. This will help, really:cool:

On another thread, I mentioned that I was reloading for five 308/7.62 at the same time. Each rifle had its own "Best" (?) load, and I loaded a 6th load that was a compromise that would be "OK" in all of them. While working up the rifle's "BEST" load, I would keep notes in the back of the rifle's own notebook.

When I sold or traded a rifle, the notebook would go with the rifle.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

good idea... I planned on adding the load recipe, as I'm all about load development... some of these rifles have a good load... some ( in the case of 17 Fireball & 25-06 ) I'm still shooting factory loads, some like the fast twist 22 Hornet, I've neither settled on a bullet weight, or a powder yet... I have the dies, & all the components for those I'm not loading for yet... the 17, I just finally got enough brass... the 25-06 I haven't shot enough of yet, to burn up all my factory loads... once I'm caught up on wringing these out, then it'll be time to work on more loads :D... got to have something to put in all these new notebooks

[Jim243]

Well there has to be at least one in every crowd, I guess that's me. While I think keeping a note book for each rifle is good if not great, I have trouble keeping my check book up to date (LOL).

Since where I shoot and calibers I shoot, wind does not play a big factor in my shooting (generally 100 yards). And all my scopes are zeroed for 100 yards.

When I am shooting longer than 100 yards, I always use an electronic range finder. All my scopes are either P-4 or Mil-Dot so I know what adjustments I need based on the holdover for each scope at what distances I should need.

I will take one sighting shot and then adjust my hold if need to. Almost all are on target then unless I pull the shot (which happens). Not all will be bullseyes but all will be on target. This is not hard to do with practice, practice, practice.

I am a reloader so all rounds used in this fashion have already been tested for the sweet spot of each rifle. In a few cases adjustments might be needed in the amount of powder for the range I would be shooting for, but in most cases that will not be necessary unless I am trying to go over 300 yards (I really do not do that). If you are going to be shooting longer than 3 football fields away, you will need more than just a notebook.

Just my 2 cents, I know I am weird.
Jim

[Magnum Wheel Man]

probably more normal than...

[Bart B.]

I've stuck lables on my rifles with the range and sight settings for the loads used. They're on the left side of the stock by the receiver where I can see them with the rifle in position.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks for the suggestion... I do have a label printer here at work, that I could print up stickers with the ballistics on as well

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Took my heavy barrel Remy in 223, & another Remy in 22-250 out last Sunday ( I'd not previously shot either of these, they were inherited from my wife's dad, & had been crated up for the last 15 years )

really happy with the heavy barrel 223 ( I was worried this one may need re-barreled as it may have been one he took out P dogging, & he was known to shoot 1,000 rounds in one week, come home & reload for 2 days, & take another 1,000 round out the next week, with a different buddy ) looks like my concerns were not warranted with the 223... the 22-250 didn't work as well, at least with the reloads I took out...

of course all of this is documented in my new shooting note books for each rifle :)

more on my scope reviews here...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528898

[Bake]

GREAT NEWS!