7x57 mauser vs 7mm mag for hunting deer. which is the better all around choice and wh

[mk8tim]

i recently purchased a savage model 110 7mm mag. i already have and love an interarms mark x 7x57 mauser. my nephew and i will be hunting deer together this year and i want him practicing on the gun he will be shooting, and i want to practice mostly with the one i will be shooting. i will be hunting without him at times but he will not be hunting without me as he is too young. the gun i choose is the gun i will be the best with. the boy is 16 and a big kid btw, so the mag is in his realm recoil wise. i have never shot a deer and neither has he. i hear a lot about bullets being knocked off track and the mag being weak in that area. i missed a massive buck last year with my 30-06 due to a bad yank on the trigger and buck fever. i do not intend to make that mistake this year. if given a choice between the two, which would you choose and why?

[Cowboy_mo]

I would choose the 7 x 57. The 7 mag is way overkill for whitetails and I simply don't like getting beat up by the rifle I am firing.

BTW, a 7 mag will not correct for yanking the trigger due to buck fever. It will however give you much more of a flinch if you practice with it very much:)

[BigD_in_FL]

What the 7X57 will do, the 7 mag will do it 100+ yards farther

[musher]

There is no reasonable range where a 7mm mag is needed for deer.

BUT

I wouldn't saddle a 16 yr old with the 7 mm mag either.

If you're stuck sharing those two rifles, suck it up with the magnum and let the boy hunt with the 7x57.

I would borrow the 7x57 back for most of my practice if I were you though. Just shoot the magnum enough to get familiar with it.

[dahermit]

What the 7X57 will do, the 7 mag will do it 100+ yards farther What the 7 mag is better at than the 7X57, is influencing the hunter to take shots further away than he can actually be sure of hitting. Getting within range is why they call it "hunting". I have killed many deer with a 6MM Remington, .257 Roberts, .32 Winchester spl., 7X57, etc. They are quite easy to kill with the more conservative chambering. The increased recoil, muzzle blast and sometimes excessive tissue damage of a 7 Mag. is not a desired or necessary attribute for deer hunting. Where the 7MM Magnum comes into its own is with heavy bullets and game several hundred pounds heavier than a deer.
...i missed a massive buck last year with my 30-06 due to a bad yank on the trigger and buck fever. i do not intend to make that mistake this year... In my less than humble opionion, by buying the Savage 110 in 7MM Rem. Mag., you are well on your way of doing it again.

[Mobuck]

I own and have used both rounds for deer. The 7 mag is over powered for this use but will put big deer DRT at ranges up to 500 yards IF THE SHOOTER IS QUALIFIED but ruins a lot of meat in doing so. The 7x57 with factory loads is a 200 yard deer rifle since those loads are way under loaded in deference to the many old Mausers still being used. The performance of this ammo is uninspiring to say it nicely but it provides a useable deer load at a reduced recoil level. In my Interarms Mk X and custom M98, I load the 7x57 to slightly above 7mm08 levels making it a true 300+ yard deer rifle.
We killed several deer with both these 7x57 loads last year so have recent real life experience with the performance.

[mattL46]

I'd have to choose the 7 Mauser. Like everyone else has said its punishing overkill and it has a more rich history than the 7mag. (Although that won't make the deer any deader just my personal opinion) its more suited for the real life ranges we most all encounter. Deer+7mag at 75-100 yards...can't see that being very pretty.

[GeauxTide]

After seeing the results of pulverized deer shot under 200 yards with the 7RM, I use a 280 Rem. For me, anything under 300 yards, standard caliber. The 7x57 is in the ballistic vacinity of other standard 2 -2.5" cases, so all around is the key word. If you reload the 7x57, it becomes the ballistic peer of the '06 class of cartridges.

[mk8tim]

the only reason i stated that i don't intend for the "trigger yank" to happen again is because i intend to practice alot more over the summer. i should have also mentioned that in my area deer hunting is mostly field hunting. i actually don't find the 7mm mag to kick all that hard. i have a horrible habbit of clicking a trigger as if it's a bic pen. on any stiff trigger pull it seems to cause me to shoot low and to the right. both my nephew and i have fired the magnum and neither of us were bothered by the recoil. he's actually much larger than i am at 6'5" and a couple hundred pounds. i'm used to my old single shot 12 gauges so the mag rifles don't seem all that bad. i need to learn to squeeze instead of pull i guess. i will make sure they are both zeroed properly and see which one fits my nephew better and go from there. my 7x57 ammo is and always will be handloads btw. my stepfather loads them for me

[tahunua001]

it doesn't matter what you go with. 7x57, 7mm-08, 7mm rem mag or even 7mm weatherby mag. no matter what you get it will kill any deer in the world within 400 yards and any farther you will need an incredible amount of skill, a very expensive setup and very firm position to shoot from. your cartridge length would be the least of your worries in that position.

[Jim Watson]

A friend here had his longest shot and best trophy deer with a 7x57.
A little Husqvarna with Weaver scope and Lee dot shooting handloads, it did anything you could ask of a hunting rifle.

[mk8tim]

the only reason i got rid of the 30-06 is because it was a rem model 710 and i absolutely hated the action of the bolt. it was sloppy at best and would bind up if you attempted any sort of quick follow up shot and didn't cycle it exactly right. i've only deer hunted the one season and after finally seeing a huge buck from across the field i went into full panic mode. i went for an afternoon ride to check my fields and at 1 in the afternoon i came upon a very large buck sniffing around on the wood line looking like a dog scouting for a place to relieve himself. instead of continuing up the road to get parallel and around 200 yards from him i slammed on the brakes, flew out the passenger door, leaned across the hood and attempted a 400 yard shot. i was a good 30 seconds getting steady enough to even keep him in my crosshairs long enough to shoot. my heart was pounding in my head and clearly visible through my scope. i had no business even being out there given the fact that i had only fired about 10 shots through my gun at about 120 yards and was inconsistent at best. i feel very fortunate that i cleanly missed instead of wounding him, that would have bothered me to no end. i hunt geese, ducks, partridge and rabbits obsessively and decided it was time to take a deer. after that i had a long talk with myself and decided next season i will be out there and have the right to be. so that's where i'm at and i am now preparing for this november's deer hunt. i intend to shoot all summer and be prepared.

[tahoe2]

then by all means make it a 7x57 and practice with your nephew as often as possible.

[mattL46]

MK8 very honorable of you!

[mk8tim]

thank you and i appreciate all of your guys comments and advice. i called my stepfather to ask him about my 7x57 ammo and he told me it's loaded "just above" .280. i guess i'm a total newb because that doesn't mean a lot to me. i do know that they're much hotter loads than factory and i'm happy about that. i'm anxious to see how i am with this little rifle. i am so hoping it fits because it's a beautiful gun. i was stuck in a mindset that it was underpowered, hence the 7mm mag, which i now own as well and actually do really like. off to the gravel pit i guess. good day all

[Saltydog235]

So you flinched and made a bad shot with a 30'06, then went and bought a 7mmMag. Yeah, that makes sense. I made a reference to mag calibers, deficiencies and penis size in the .300 Mag thread, seems to apply here.

Why compare a 7mmMag to a 7X57? Sounds like you'd have been better served to step back to that wimpy 7mm08 that I like to shoot. It'll kill deer farther than most people can effectively shoot. I stoned a doe with it last year at 322yds. I own 4 7mmMags, I just rarely hunt with them for deer, the last one I shot was just about ruined from the bullet.

Or even better get a .243 and practice with it and get rid of that flinch. When it is time to hunt deer, you are good to go.

[ligonierbill]

I hope I read that wrong - the OP didn't really confess to a violation of the game laws in any state I know, did he? I also hope his stepfather is exaggerating about those 7x57 loads. Just to pick a common load from Nosler #6, a 140 over 51.5 grains RL19 tested at about 2,900 fps. That's max load, compressed, at 107% case capacity. That old Mauser 7 is no wimp. The .280 Rem loads the same bullet over 57 grains RL19 for 3,150, within 200 of the 7 Mag. Book values, of course, but if you could pack the smaller case with some faster powder to the point of approaching .280 velocities, I do not believe it would be a safe load.

[AllenJ]

MK8 you have the right idea. Practice, practice, practice, and do it on paper targets so you can see exactly what it happening. Coming from a bird hunting background when you get excited you're reverting to what has always worked, just like anyone would, and shooting like you always have. The issue is that shooting a rifle is completely different than shooting a shotgun. I can relate to your problem because in the late 90's I got to see the exact same thing with my cousin and he missed a fine bull elk on public land because of it.

As for cartridge choice either that you have are going to work fine. I've shot many rounds of 7mm Remington Mag and I don't find it uncomfortable at all. I have also seen many animals killed with the 7mm Remington Mag and all have been just as tasty as those killed with non-mag cartridges. The 7X57 is wonderful cartridge, it has a rich history and has very little recoil. Either should do what you need and I doubt the deer well know the difference.

[musher]

I hope I read that wrong - the OP didn't really confess to a violation of the game laws in any state I know, did he?

Maybe, maybe not. If it's an access lane on his field, he's ok.

[mk8tim]

"Why compare a 7mmMag to a 7X57?" because that's what i own. and who said anything about flinching? i simply have a bad habit of "clicking" my trigger as if it's a pen. and what lead anyone to believe any law was violated? i was driving up a field road and saw a deer on the wood line. it was a dirt road far from any main road or dwelling. as long as a road isn't paved in maine you can shoot from it. also, i don't get the big deal about kick from a 7mm magnum. my 30-06 kicked worse in my opinion. look at a simple recoil chart. hardly a difference. i just got back from shooting today and my girlfriend and i both did quite well with both rifles. my 7mm has almost no kick compared to my goose gun. i'm not afraid of my gun, just not experienced with high caliber rifles and the importance of a good trigger squeeze. it also took me awhile to define my problem. i thought that maybe my rifle was off. i'm also used to a shotgun and not a rifle. i clearly need to practice. that's what i'm doing. so to be clear, i own both a savage 110 7mm mag and an interarms 7mm mauser. i'm asking advice as to which one i should be focusing on with my practice and which is the better deer rifle. i will be using one during the season and on the occasions that my nephew accompanies me he will be using the other. i have a friend who shoots deer every year with the 7mm mag, no ruined meat. if someone has no knowledge of one i would rather they didn't comment on it. i'm looking for some good advice here, nothing more

[mk8tim]

and thank you allenj, i think you've hit the nail on the head. i'm deadly with my 12 gauge, not so much with my rifle. i'm a pretty determined man. i got this. lol

[Liambobbi]

7 mag = neck shot for deer

[ligonierbill]

I'll grant your legality in Maine. Not the safest practice, and it will get you busted in a lot of states. That said, I had my 7 Mag out yesterday finalizing another load. Recommendation: Load a good 160. It's the right bullet to reach way out with plenty of energy, but it's less likely to ruin meat at close range. Killed my first elk at 400 with that rifle. And don't sell the 7x57 short. It's anything but weak.

[mk8tim]

it was simply a field road. remote and barely even a road. not public in any way. it ended at the end of the field. nothing even remotely unsafe about it. stepping into the field wouldn't have made things any safer. maybe i was unclear but the road is only for access to the field, nothing more. also not the point of my post. i am planning to use 150 grain or 160 for deer this fall.

[alex0535]

7mm mag is a lot of rifle for deer, but it really depends on what species of deer you are hunting.

Whitetail, too much gun in my opinion. Your going to damage meat if you hit shoulder I would aim for the neck. Moose, I would feel confident in shooting a moose with a 7mm mag. Any species in between them is going to be takeable with 7mm mag.

My opinion is that your 7mm mag would be adequate to kill any game in North America but in many cases it is going to be overkill for anything under 250lbs.

If you are sighting in your 7 mag out in the woods, FIRE INTO A HILL! You can punch through a 5" tree trunk, knock the tree over, and it just keeps on going.

[m&p45acp10+1]

For white tail I would go with the 7x57. The 7mm Mag is best left for someone that has more experience with shooting. For many new to that round it can start a habit of flenching that can extend to all center fire rifles one shoots after that.

I would also suggest if funds will allow, and it is legal with your state's game laws to look into a good used .243 Win bolt action, or one of the affordable package rifles. After sighting one in, they are good to go on white tail deer out to 150 yards (maybe more, though I would stick in the 100 yards area for comfort.) Also if sticking to 100 yards or less a good used lever action in .30-30 Win is also a good rifle. I stated those two due to the fact that you can find ammo for them at most any place that sells ammo. You stated that your stepfather is the reloader. I stated round that you can buy yourself.

Another suggestion would be to instead of purchasing new equipment find an instructor, and pay for a few one on one sessions. I think that would be the best route to go. It is what I would suggest to most people.

[Pathfinder45]

I really don't believe that the 7mm magnum is all that much more gun than a 30-'06 or even a 270 Winchester. Put a slip-on recoil pad on it, That will lengthen it a little but y'all are pretty tall anyway, right? If you are shooting reloads, try to find an accurate load using 160 grain bullets at about 2700-2800 fps to slow it down a little, further reducing recoil if you're worried about it. As far as meat damage goes, it can be eliminated entirely by not shooting them in the meat. A broadside lung shot is best for that. Don't take 400 yard shots at deer unless you can sit on the ground or kneel and hit five straight milk jugs filled with water at that distance without missing. And you better be able to estimate or laser the range when it's that far out. What if you guessed it was 450 yards and it was really 285? And when you practice, shoot standing, kneeling, and perhaps sitting. Shooting off a bench or pick-up hood is only good for testing rifle and ammunition to verify impact at given ranges. It's worthless for practice. Use milk jugs filled with water starting at 100 yards and various and uncertain ranges out to 400 or more yards. At the 100 yard jugs, shoot only from the standing, off hand positon. When you get to where you can't hit them, go to the kneeling position. When they are too far away to hit reliably kneeling, try the sitting position. When they are too far to hit sitting, then that's way too far to take a shot at game. Bring lots of jugs and lots of ammo. Then when you are hunting and see a 400 yard deer, stalk closer. You won't shoot better than you have practiced. Lose the Bic-clik. Get a bolt action .22 LR rifle and shoot it a lot every time you practice. Soup cans at 75-100 yards standing and kneeling. This will save centerfire ammo and cure flinching. But the trajectory of .22 rimfire ammo means you shouldn't use it much beyond 100 yards a lot or you might develop a habit of holding way over your target at longer ranges. Like O'Connor, I'd recommend you zero your 7mm's at about 275 yards. I'd rather have a 30-'06 or preferably a 270 than a magnum but what you have will do just fine.

[mk8tim]

thank you. that sounds like very good advice. i have been shooting a lot of 22 rounds and was very happy with the results shooting both my 7 mag and mauser yesterday. i know people insist that the mag has too much recoil but i honestly don't see it. my 30-06 kicked harder in my opinion. it doesn't bother me at all. my girlfriend shot it and did very well also. we have been hunting for a few years with old single shot 12 gauges and i use a 12 gauge pump and 3 and a half inch shells for goose hunting, so recoil isn't something i'm afraid of. the type of hunting we have here in northern maine makes it very hard to get very close to a deer. our deer population vs. the amount of woods we have is the reason. the best place to see find them is inopen fields and that often means taking a shot of 2 to 300 yards or more. i had no business attempting the shot i did last year and got very lucky in my opinion. i am going to work with what i have for rifles and keep at it until i'm consistent and comfortable with some long range shots.

[mk8tim]

in mentioning my stepdad i think i may have given some the impression that i'm younger than i am as well. i'm actually 38 years old and just a little late to the deer hunting game.

[myfriendis410]

With similar bullet weights a 30-06 and 7mm rem mag are nearly identical out to 300 yards--the maximum distance MOST hunters should ever attempt an ethical shot at deer-sized animals. The most important thing about hunting is being able to hit your target. A 22-250 would do the job just fine with good bullet placement (along with the proper bullet). It's not what you've got, it's how you use it......

I use a 7mm mag and a .300 win mag on our small deer in coastal California and with the right bullet I get excellent performance and minimal damage. Shooting a deer through the shoulders is a guarantee of bloodshot meat IMO; through the chest behind a shoulder puts 'em down with little meat loss. I agree that true hunting is getting in close; there's NOTHING like shooting a good buck at 10 yards with a bow, or stalking in and waiting on a harem'd up buck and plugging him with a muzzleloader.

I would say you have the right idea to practice with your equipment. It shows respect for the animal you are hunting. Either rifle will work just fine; pick the one you shoot best and feel most confident with. Only you can judge your personal hunting conditions.

[44 AMP]

The 7mm mag is lot of gun for whitetail. The real drawback to it is the recoil bothers a lot of people, and that, added to the cost of the ammo usually means people don't practice as much as they need to.

Since the recoil doesn't bother you, you're fine. Much more important is your habit of clicking the trigger. Doing that means it will be very difficult to place a precise shot at range.

For that, I recommend as much practice (with any gun) as you can manage. Dry Firing is good cheap practice. Your rifle should not be harmed by it, but check the manua to be sure.

Take the unloaded gun, and tape a laser pointer to it (it doesn't have to be perfectly lined up with the bore), and aim at a wall. Watch the dot (not the sights) as you squeeze the trigger. If it bounces around when you dry fire, you need more practice. You can also do this without the laser, using the sights, just aim at a specific point, and see if the sights move when you pull the trigger. Check to make sure the gun is unloaded first. Then check again. And then check again. Any time the gun leaves your hands, or sight, check it when you pick it up. Its a good habit to have.

When you can dry fire without the dot moving (or barely moving) you are ready for range practice. Any good book on basic marksmanship will give you the basics, and is much handier to refer to with the rifle in your hands than advice on the computer monitor.;)

[hooligan1]

Dang good advice from Amp44... although some who replied here talked her down, I won't hold them in contemp. When you can hunt whitetail deer in open country where the deer are larger bodied or the distances may be further then the 7 MM Rem Mag is the one that gets the call... When I say Larger bodied deer and further distances I mean just that,. I've shot deer with the 7mm rem mag at close range and it really wasn't abusive like some here have suggested,(wonder how many here have actually shot whitetails with a 7mm Rem mag),. It's in the weight and the bullet style you choose to use in this caliber. I've made worse mess of deer with decent shot placement with a 30-06 and150 grain bullets.

[mk8tim]

excellent. i am absolutely going to do that. thank you. i've actually already got a laser sight, i just need to attatch it and get working. i never thought of that

[Steezy]

Mag. Most grown man can handle the recoil, excellent commercial ammunition is abundant, the rifle will shoot a looooooot further accurately and can serve a dual purpose if more firepower is needed on moose, bear, etc.

7x57 is cool too, though... can't lose.

[Major Dave (retired)]

but have no experience with 7RM.

My 7X57 reloads chrono at 2,950 fps MV for a 140 gr bullet, with 1.25 MOA accuracy.

At that velocity, I do get a little recoil, but not enough to bother me.

If your teenager is 6' 6", and 200 pounds, the 7RM recoil might not bother him much, so I think you should let him practice with that, while you practice with the 7X57.

Each rifle is an individual, when it comes to trigger pull, so you should practice with the one you will hunt with. You definitely don't want to "click it like a ball point pen".

Practice by "dry firing", i.e., squeezing the trigger on an empty chamber. To prevent possible damage to the firing pen, buy a "snap cap" and put it in the otherwise empty chamber for practice. You will probably have to buy a 7X57 (and 7 RM) snap cap from Midway, Brownell, or some other catalog, as local gun shops and "big box" sporting goods stores usually don't stock snap caps.

After about 100 repetitions of dry fire, weekly, you should go to the range at least monthly from now until deer season, to live fire, at least 20 rounds per session.

[reynolds357]

m&P, the .243 Win is good to way past 400 yds for whitetail. Its not even getting crunk up good at 100 to 150.:D

[reynolds357]

Major Dave, as a 6' 6" 270 pounder, I disagree with you on recoil. Recoil hurts us big people worse than it does small people. We have more inertia. Instead of us big folks moving, we just take a beating from the rifle before we move.

[Clark]

I am not buying any more white tail tags.
They always seem to out smart me, while Mule deer stand there at 400 yards, giving me a broadside shot from a bipod.

Comparing 7mm cartridges
assume:
a) 26" barrel
b) Hornady 7MM .284 DIA 162GR BIG GAME POLY CARB TIP 28452 bullets and moly coated them
Quickload and Quicktarget at close to optimum powder choice and 65kpsi:

7mmT/CU ........................26.1 gr H335 2330 fps -471 yards
7-30 Waters ........................30 gr W748 2456 fps -395 yards
7mmBR ...........................31.2 gr W748 2510 fps -360 yards
7mm IHMSA .......................40.2 gr Re17 2704 fps -247 yards
7mm-08 .......................40.6 gr IMR4895 2789 fps -198 yards
7mm-08AckleyImproved .........43.6 gr Re15 2833 fps -171 yards
7x57mm ...........................44.6 gr Re15 2843 fps -165 yards
7x57mmAckleyImproved .........46.4 gr Re15 2873 fps -150 yards
284Win .........................50.0 gr IMR4350 2890 fps -172 yards
280Rem ............................53.5 gr H414 2961 fps -152 yards
7mm Rem short action ultra mag 55.5 gr Re17 3015 fps -73 yards
280RemAckleyImproved ........57 gr IMR4350 3019 fps -71 yards
7mmRemMag ......................68.2 gr Re22 3129 fps -15 yards
7mmRem ultra mag ............83.3 gr IMR7828 3130 fps -15 yards
7mmWeathMag ....................71.8 gr Re22 3170 fps +7 yards
7mmSTW .............82.2 gr Ramshot Magnum 3158 fps 0 yards

I think the best long range gun the average guy could carry is the 7mmRM with handloads that have a safety margin backed off from the threshold of long brass life.
I have the reamer and have built many 7mmRemMag rifles.
I have a number of 7x57mm rifles too, but they don't get to hunt.

As you can see, the 7mmRM is like being 150 yards closer for power, than the 7x57, and that is if you really knew how to load a 7x57 and did not use powder puff factory ammo.

[PVL]

Why fight it?

If you are a trigger-clicker, another route would be to buy a CZ rifle with the single-set trigger.

Set the trigger on one of those, and with practice, you'll soon be a precision trigger-clicker.

A Mauser with a double-set trigger will do the same thing for you - but those are much harder to come by.

[SaxonPig]

The Magnum will shoot farther... and harder. Can you use the extra range capability? Do you need it?

The Magnum will kick much, much harder. You care? The Magnum will cost more to feed as ammo is higher in cost and reloading will require more expensive cases and more powder. You care?

Nobody can tell you which gun is best for you or which you will like better. You decide.

I am a simple man with simple tastes. I think the 7x57 is one of the finest rifle cartridges ever designed and have several rifles in this caliber. Yes, the 7mm Magnum will everything better. Do you need to do it better?

If I can't get it done with this, then I guess I don't need to get it done.


http://www.fototime.com/C8E4E840226D84E/standard.jpg

[Clark]

If I put the largest grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad on a rifle and then NOT GRIND IT... I get a lot of area of recoil pad on my shoulder.

I can shoot belted magnums with hot loads all day.. 7mmRM, 300WM, and 338WM.

Unlike a Win 94 30-30 with factory ammo and hard butt can bruise the shoulder.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89008&d=1366644379

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/recoil-parts/recoil-pads/limbsaver-grind-to-fit-pads-prod18220.aspx

Same pic as above