Choosing new rifle for teen girl for hunting

[Nim Rod]

She currently shoots a Ruger .243, and she is proficient with it, it is a great go to rifle for deer & antelope and has served her well with many a tagged kill, however, we are looking to get something a little bigger for Elk after suffering a game loss due to the loss of a good blood trail after an initial good blood trail, leaving us to ponder if the bullet hole didn't close and prevent further blood loss.
After searching for well over 7 hours we were forced to give up when darkness fell.
As her mom, I shoot a Ruger 30.06, and she has shot it, but it seams a bit heavy for her with a little to much recoil, although she was proficient enough with it to bring down a nice Muley buck last fall.
We are debating between a .270, a .308, or "maybe" a 30.06...
Thoughts or advice?

[Doyle]

.270 will give you as much recoil as the .30-06. No help there. .308 will be a little better. Personally, I'd go with a 7mm-08. MUCH better at elk than a .243 as you can use 140grn bullets. Recoil is not much more than her .243.

[Nim Rod]

Thank you Doyle.
How available and pricey is ammo for a 7mm? I've not considered it before and know nothing about it. We'll add that to our list of prospective's :) thanks!

[Liambobbi]

I second the 7mm-08 good choice

[tahunua001]

308 is normally the minimum recommended for elk. another option you may think about is the 7mm-08 which is essentially the intermediary between 308 and 243(all three use the same case, just different neck sizes). it packs more weight than the 243 and shooters flatter and faster than 308.

if your family reloads, look for 7mm nosler accubonds, great bullet for elk...

[Nim Rod]

Thank you. I will definitely look into the 7mm 08.
I tried offering her my old starter rifle, a Marlin 30.30 Glenfield (it's already killed 4 elk in the past, so I know it can) but she wasn't interested in it...

We don't do any reloading, wish we did...........sigh...so need ammo to be easy enough to find (I know...it's near impossible to find these days for any cartridge)

[allaroundhunter]

If you need to be able to find ammo then .308 is pretty much out of the question as it is a rare luxury in most areas. I find 7mm-08 ammo most everywhere that I look, and it is a great round with just a little more recoil than the .243.

[RonR6]

I have a Remington .280 mountain rifle and my wife occasionally shoots it and likes it. It's very light and can be carried all day on a hunt and should be sufficient for elk with heavy bullets. Recoil is not that bad.

[kutz]

Ruger Americans are not heavy, I use a .270 American on Elk.

[Wyosmith]

You might look at a Browning BAR in 270 or 30-06 instead of just looking at bolt actions. The wood stock version is just about 7 pounds as it comes out of the box, so about 8 pounds with a scope, loaded and ready to carry.
Also the wood stock can be shortened if she's not a tall gal, and so the gun can be made to fit her well.
See this link.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=002B&cid=031&tid=536

A smaller and/or light bullet or lower velocity is a good way to reduce recoil, but so is a gas auto and if you go to an auto you don't have to give up as much power.
One of these firing a full power 270 with a 150 grain bullet is an excellent elk gun and it kicks about like a 25-06 or a light 243.

[AllenJ]

I’ll start off by saying how impressed I am that you, as a mother, have introduced and are willing to help your daughter in the sport of shooting and hunting. America does have some hope left!

Doyle is spot on with his assessment. The 270 is just a 30/06 necked down so recoil is about the same. The 308 Winchester is a good choice except again, the recoil is only slightly less than a 30/06 and it is nearly impossible to find any ammo for them right now. 7mm/08 is a great little cartridge, well capable of taking elk at close and intermediate distances, and with less recoil than a 30/06. From what I’ve seen the ammo is usually a little more expensive but other than that it is a cartridge I would give serious consideration if I were in your shoes.

[BoogieMan]

I would push a 30-30. I inherited one from one of my dads friends. I have a deer rifle but my 15 y/o son did not. 2 seasons he has dropped 5 deer in 2 states with it. Happens to be a Marlin microgroove with a 4x Bushnell. I see you offered her your 30-30. Perhaps she just wants her own "new" rifle. Or maybe a different style. IMO 30-30 is one of the most underrated calibers. Shoots flat (within range) hits hard and has a gentle recoil.

[Nim Rod]

WyosmithThat is pretty! However....and it won't affect anything, but she wants blond wood to match her .243...she's taken a real liking to blond woods, lol.
I wonder if any of the above mentioned is available in a blond wood, or MSR, which she also loves

[Wyosmith]

MSR?
What's that?

[Nim Rod]

Thank you AllenJ, I pride myself as a huntress and having been hunting since I was her age (17) I even left my x because he refused to hunt, lol...found me a new husband who is as die hard about hunting as I am...seriously, lol.

I absolutely love my 30.30, and it served me well for many, many years...but I also love my 30.06 with its "reach out and touch something" capability, lol.

Last fall, we went out for deer and she thought I had put her .243 in the truck, and I thought she had...after all, she is responsible for making sure she had everything she would need....long story short, we reached our destination only to discover she had left the .243 at home so I handed her my 30.06, which at first she was scared to shoot, but once she saw her buck, all fears left her and she dropped him in one fatal shot.....said she never even noticed the recoil in her excitement, lol..ok, yeah, I'm bragging :D I admit it, I'm a proud mom!
The landowner just couldn't get over 2 gals, hunting with no fella along....then his jaw dropped when we quickly dressed out our kills...guess he was worried he was gonna have to do it, lol.
Anyhow, I personally feel she would do just fine with a 30.06, and ammo is readily available...plus we can share ammo if the need ever arose....but yes, she wants her very own rifle, not a hand me down......dang kids, lol

[Geo_Erudite]

Savage Model 11 lightweight hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor, 260, or 6.5x284

or

Savage Model 11 Lady Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor

[Nim Rod]

MSR - Military Style Rifle...I know very little about them....my son has an AR-15, but he doesn't hunt....(he works at a meat processing plant and has no disire to add to his workload, lol)
I don't know what calibers are available in a MSR though

[Sgt Pepper]

Ditto on the 7mm-08. While I am a fan of the .30-30 for a number of reasons, it is very limited in range.

[tahunua001]

for 7mm-08 I found some 160 grain hunting ammo that uses the accubond bullet. a little spendy and currently on back order but much more effective against elk than 243.
here's (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/552769/doubletap-ammunition-7mm-08-remington-160-grain-nosler-accubond-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-20) the link

[the rifleer]

A good recoil pad helps a lot, i bet she could shoot a 30.06 comfortably with a good recoil pad.

[Nim Rod]

oh now THIS is sweet!!! I think she would LOVE this one!!!!
http://personalsecurityzone.com/images/RUG17111lg.jpg

[Nim Rod]

Thank you so much everyone! I sent her a link to this thread..so we'll see what she has to say when she reads through it :)

(after all, she's the one who pointed out this forum to me :) )

[Saltydog235]

for 7mm-08 I found some 160 grain hunting ammo that uses the accubond bullet. a little spendy and currently on back order but much more effective against elk than 243.
here's the link

I handload a 150grn Nosler BT in my 7mm08 and it is devastating on a whitetail deer and hogs. I have lot of rifles chambered in different cartridges but I always seem to favor my 7mm08's. I wouldn't think twice about taking on bigger game with it.

[tahunua001]

my brother and brother in law both use 7mm rem mags and both swear by the 160 grain accubonds for elk. they travel a lot faster and kick a lot worse but I think the 08 would still work quite well.

[sourdough44]

I do like the 7mm-08 but since no one reloads, and you already have the 243 covered I'd step up to the 308. If needed for occasional practice, you can track down some 'reduced recoil' ammo for the 308. They could be used for some hunting too.

If you did have a trusted reloader in your circle it would be helpful. One gun(among many) I like is the Browning X-Bolt, Micro-Hunter and regular sized.

Back to the 243, with a quality 95-100 grain bullet and reasonable ranges, it should do well with good shot placement.

[Nathan]

243, 308 or 338 Federal all sound good to me. If staying with 243, I would switch to a premium hunting bullet to maximize it's effectiveness. The premium bullet would be better in most rounds.

A 308 AR10, might give her reduced size and recoil do to its MSR shape, gas system and muzzle device.

If you went to an elk rifle, something like 338 Federal or 35 Remington with a nice recoil pad, muzzle brake and possible a mercury recoil reducer might really tame the gun for her.

[Nim Rod]

She was shooting 90 grain, if I remember right, with her .243...shot at under 50 yards in the heart/lung area. I know her shot placement was good if she tells me it was...but it didn't drop him...then again, he was one huge ass bull too

[Nim Rod]

I'm sure he died, eventually....his trail lead down into the deepest darkest hell hole you can imagine....
I just had her go look, she was shooting 100 grain Remington Core-lokt

[Wyosmith]

Well to the best of my knowledge all Military Style rifles in 308 (and the old M-1 Garand in 30-06) are fairly heavy with the exception being the new FN SCAR which costs a LOT.

The M1A is not too bad, but get heavy if you scope it.

The DPMS "AR-10 style" rifles come in calibers from 243 to 338 Federal, but I have owned one myself in 308 and I have a neighbor that had one in 243 and neither own was reliable. In fact his never once got through a mag of ammo without at least 2 jams. My 308 also seldom would go through a mag without at least one jam

I have an FN FAL that is 100% trouble free, but again it’s heavy and a small lady would not like it in all probability.

The FNAR in 308 is a Browning Short Track in 308 with a 20 round box mag but the stock is quite long even in its shortest configuration. It's lighter than the FAL, but scoped and loaded it's still a 1.4 pound rifle.

In military style rifles that would be good elk guns the ones I know of are:
The M-1 Garand,
The HK-91 and clones (CETME and so on)
The FN- FAL
The FN SCAR
The FNAR
The M1A and M-14s
The AR-10 and "clones"
The Dragunov sniper rifle clones in 7.62X54R. This one is one of the lighter full power autos, but pretty long.
There may be a few others that pop up now and then too. But this list constitutes most of the ones you could choose from.

What state are you in Nim Rod?

[globemaster3]

+1 to Wyosmiths concerns on weight with the MSRs. Although my DPMS LR 308 has been 100% reliable, it's heavy compared to a regular AR or any of my bolt guns. If you're covering a lot of ground huntin elk, it would be a drawback.

7mm 08 is a good round. 270 or 280 would be great as well. 7x57 or 6.5X55 would also work.

If she insists on blonde wood, if you buy a common bolt action, there are companies making aftermarket stocks in a dizzying array of laminate colors, wood types, and styles. A word of caution, though, there are a lot of pretty stocks out there! I find I never like the stocks I own as much as the ones I see online!

[hooligan1]

.270, with the proper bullets, and the proper shot placement is as good as a magnum "super blaster". Even the .308 along with the .270 with a muzzle brake, could be an option. My daughter can easily handle her .270 Weather Warrior from Savage, and it's deadly accurate, and easy to clean, only it's in a synthetic stock... but practice is the most important part of gun ownership, especially if we're killing animals with them......;)just my buck fitty.

[Nim Rod]

I haven't yet figured out how you all get previous quotes into a box, but I had to laugh out loud over this one!

"If she insists on blonde wood, if you buy a common bolt action, there are companies making aftermarket stocks in a dizzying array of laminate colors, wood types, and styles. A word of caution, though, there are a lot of pretty stocks out there! I find I never like the stocks I own as much as the ones I see online!"

SO TRUE!!! rofl!

Wyosmith...about 90 miles form you, give or take

[Nim Rod]

For no other reason than cost, I'm trying to dissuade her away from MSR's....but she likes them, and loves shooting her brother's AR-15....
That said, I think she is still leaning towards a 308....I just have very little to none, knowledge of them...on another thread in this forum, someone posted a poll asking about 308 vs .270....that's the thread she pointed me to when I found this site (she found it in google)

We'll keep learning and looking, for now, anything is out of our price range until I get the reverse fixed on my Dodge :(

[Nim Rod]

hooligan1, I couldn't agree more on practicing! We try to get out shooting at least once a week....although, less now with ammo being so hard to find and priced like gold :(

[allaroundhunter]

Nim Rod, unless y'all are able to reload (and even then it is difficult to get components), you need to try to explain to your daughter that .308 ammo is virtually non-existent in today's market. I had to get into reloading just to have a chance to shoot my .308... but I do love reloading now:D

.270 and .30-06 ammo can both be found, and with a muzzle brake are better choices than the .308 right now, in my opinion. However, the 7mm-08 still tops my list.

[Nathan]

I'm sure he died, eventually....his trail lead down into the deepest darkest hell hole you can imagine....
I just had her go look, she was shooting 100 grain Remington Core-lokt


2 things, yep that is the way they die. They are usually possible to go get with enough experience, lights, time and raw determination. I'm sure you had the last 2...

I think your bullet may have been the downfall, frankly. The 243 is a pretty small fast round. Core lots hitting bone at full speed likely disinigrate. That is why I would look at bullets first. A Partition, Bonded or full copper will expand, but are tough enough to make some kind of exit hole.

So, I think she should go get her next bull with a better bullet in her 243. Likely these are $55 a box, but I guess that is cheaper than a new gun and a better fit for her. My dad quit on his 30'06 for this same reason. If I were him, I would go back to it, but with better bullets! He had to go to the spendy bullets anyways cause the 270 WSM blows them up at 150 yards!

[Nim Rod]

Thank you allaroundhunter for your insight. I have a son that works in the gun dept. for Sportsmen's Warehouse and I will also get his input...he'll know what ammo caliber's they get in most, and how often, for our area in WY, but since he doesn't hunt (he also works for a meat processor so has no interest in hunting), I value other hunter's opinions more when it comes to helping my daughter choose her next firearm.
Most importantly, it will have to be something she likes and will be comfortable with, followed by efficiency, and cost...and availability/cost of ammo.

She'll have no choice but to use my 30.30 this coming fall unless she gets a good paying job and can afford it herself after other expenses (vehicle care, insurance, etc) but since she is a horse trainer, still in her early stages of starting up, her cash flow can often times be long between paychecks, lol

[steveNChunter]

If she sticks with the .243 and shoots some 105 gr Nosler Partitions she would have alot better results on elk-sized game.

The 7mm-08 is also a good idea if she gets another rifle.

But two other calibers that deserve just as much consideration are .25-06 and 6.5 creedmoor

I cant believe I'm the first person to mention .25-06 in this thread :confused:

[UniversalFrost]

i was in the same boat for my daughter who was using my first deer rifle that was a .243 (98 mauser GEW that was sporterized long ago and very well done), i had decided to buy her an encore in 308 since it was lighter felt recoil than a 30/06 (at least that was my idea)... turned out that a 308 and lightly loaded 30/06 are the same percieved recoil to her.

ended up getting her a ruger american in 30/06 and she loves it. when shooting federal or american 150gr sp's she really enjoys it and is more accurate with it than with the 165 or 168gr 308's in an encore. right now i am looking at a 7mm-08 or 25-06 encore barrel or possibly a 44mag or 45acp carbine barrel for the encore so that my other daughter can take it into the woods this fall.

[Nim Rod]

oh yes! those never even crossed my mind!
You all are very nice and helpful! but oh the choices now, lol....this is almost as fun as going out shooting....almost :D

[steveNChunter]

With the 6.5 creedmoor, keep in mind that Hornady is currently the only one making factory ammo as far as I know. I wouldnt say that its super hard to find, but availability can be spotty with it.

120 gr .25-06 ammo is everywhere and made by everybody so it should be a little easier to find. I shoot Federal Fusion 120's in my .25-06 for whitetails, but I'd say it would make a dandy elk load as well, and its under $30 a box.

[Nim Rod]

This is her Ruger .243

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/metawasmom/Facebook/Hunting%20pics/301412_290527790962936_1351892068_n.jpg

[tahunua001]

very nice, I'm a fan of the Ruger MKII myself and own one in 30-06, there are far worse guns you could buy.

[reynolds357]

Nimrod, if you want a good blood trail, you most definitely want an exit wound. The .243 Winchester will consistently fully penetrate an Elk if using a bullet such as the Barnes X. Of course there are exceptions to the rule such as if you hit both shoulder balls or some other fluke circumstance that rarely ever occurs. As far as exit wound size, increasing 1/2 or even 1 MM is not going to make a tremendous difference in the size of the exit wound. Double it due to expansion, and its still not a huge difference. You get your huge exit wounds from hyper velocity bullets driving bone and from the shock wave exiting. My 7Rum exits with a wound the size of a base ball, but a 7-08 will not leave a wound even close to that size. If your daughter likes everything about the 06 except the recoil, consider having a muzzle brake put on an 06. I believe you will find that a 7-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor will leave an exit wound slightly smaller than the .243 due to their lower velocity.

[Nim Rod]

Interesting....I almost feel embarrassed as I've been hunting for over 30 years, never been skunked on deer or antelope, and only skunked on elk when I can't locate them....but never put much thought into the ammo....it's eye opening and I'm glad I asked.
I think we'll fill some milk jugs with H2O and head out to the field with her .243 and my old 30.30 and let her experiment with different ammunition before we continue looking for a new firearm....although, she won't like hearing that, lol

[Nim Rod]

I only learned about Nosler Partitions yesterday while speaking with my son's boss at Sportsman's Warehouse....have never heard of Barnes X before....I will definitely look into them

[tahunua001]

Nimrod, if you want a good blood trail, you most definitely want an exit wound. The .243 Winchester will consistently fully penetrate an Elk if using a bullet such as the Barnes X. Of course there are exceptions to the rule such as if you hit both shoulder balls or some other fluke circumstance that rarely ever occurs. As far as exit wound size, increasing 1/2 or even 1 MM is not going to make a tremendous difference in the size of the exit wound. Double it due to expansion, and its still not a huge difference. You get your huge exit wounds from hyper velocity bullets driving bone and from the shock wave exiting. My 7Rum exits with a wound the size of a base ball, but a 7-08 will not leave a wound even close to that size. If your daughter likes everything about the 06 except the recoil, consider having a muzzle brake put on an 06. I believe you will find that a 7-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor will leave an exit wound slightly smaller than the .243 due to their lower velocity.
uh...what?
I have yet to see an elk(non archery) that required an exit wound at all, no less the size of a baseball to drop. this year alone my younger brother took an elk with my 300 weatherby magnum, exit wound about the size of a quarter, dropped 10 feet from where it was shot. my brother inlaw also killed an elk with a 45/70, didn't exit... 7mm-08 is more than capable of killing elk with proper placement and good bullet construction.
with a 7mm-08 you can get a 160gr projectile traveling at nearly 2700 fps. compare that to a 243 where your absolute best is a 105 gr bullet traveling 2900fps, believe it or not those 55 grains make a pretty big difference. also compare to 7mm rem mag where 160 grains max out around 3100 FPS, 4000 feet per second difference doesn't matter much inside of 300 yards.

[reynolds357]

I love how you managed to twist what I said into you cant kill elk without an exit wound the size of a baseball. Not what I said.

[Nathan]

This (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/838367/hornady-superformance-ammunition-243-winchester-80-grain-gilding-metal-expanding-boat-tail-box-of-20) looks like it might be a pretty good 243, out to 150 yd, elk round...What do you all think?

[reynolds357]

Yep. Assuming the Hornaday bullet does what they say it will. I have never shot one of their gilding metal bullets so cant provide input on it one way or the other. I can guarantee the X is everything Barnes says it is.

[Brian Pfleuger]

150 yards?!

I really hate these various incarnations of caliber wars threads.:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

The 243 fails as an elk round exactly the same way that a .308 or 375H&H magnum fails, by not hitting the important stuff.

Unrecovered animals are not evidence of a failure of the bullet. They're unrecovered. We don't KNOW where the bullet hit. Interestingly, recovered animals always have holes in the important stuff. It should lead one to believe that poking holes in the important stuff kills things and when things don't get dead, it's because the important things didn't get holes poked in them.

Young people, small-framed women and other with an aversion to recoil regularly hunt elk with the 243. It does the job when they do.

[kdemers58]

I am not from the west were you have Elk but i have a 257 roberts that i have killed white tail and black bear they come in 120 gr bullets i would think plenty for elk they have low recoil mi wife has one and my son and the both love them rugers m77 in 257 is a nice deal.

[Nim Rod]

I have no doubts when my daughter tells me she hit the mark, that she did...she is a crack shot...with antelope and deer tags filled every year with one shot since she was 14 (17 now) and most antelope were between 200 - 300 yards....deer between 50 - 150 yards.....this elk was only about 50 yards from her....100 grain Remington core-lokt

[Nim Rod]

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/metawasmom/Facebook/Hunting%20pics/386320_524783267537386_937980357_n.jpg

[reynolds357]

I can hit a 6" target all day at 1000 yards. Last year I shot a deer in the heart that was really hit in the guts when I finally found it. It was only 230 yards away. Sometimes, stuff happens.:) That is the first deer I have gut shot in 15 or so years, but at times we dont hit where we think we do.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Unless there's a recovered animal, there's ALWAYS doubt. I've killed dozens of deer and I still screw up, even on "cake" shots. Show me someone who doesn't and I'll show you a liar. I don't want to admit it but it's the truth. If she shot an elk at 50 yards with a 100gr Core-lokt and did not recover the animal, she did not place the bullet where she wanted it. Period.

[Nim Rod]

True...and since most all her shots are usually over 100 yards, it is very possible that she missed the mark due to being so close..........and her first elk....lord knows I get all sorts of hyped when I see an elk...hard to keep breathing slow and controlled, lol

[Nim Rod]

I wish I could've seen her shoot...I was only about 20 yards away but watching a different area when I 'bout jumped out of my skin when I heard her shoot

[Wyosmith]

NimRod, if you'd like to come over I have a Benelli R1 in 270 WSM if she's like to try a few shots.
I also have some military rifles she can try.
PM me and we'll meet at the range in Shoshoni or you can come here. (I have 300 yds to shoot out of my shop door)

[Doyle]

I see some people advising a .25-06. I personally wouldn't go that route for two reasons:

1. Muzzle blast is pretty bad unless you get a 26" barrel.
2. You are are still limited to a pretty small bullet.

I know there are people here that are saying the .243 will down an elk quite well when hit in the proper vitals - even with the lighter 6mm bullet. That is true but this is a case where heavier really is better. I believe you stand a much better chance of a successfull shot if you can choose a caliber where the bullet is up in the 130+grn weight.

[GeauxTide]

I gave my future DIL a Ruger Compact Laminate in 260 for her graduation from Law School this year. She is 5 nuthin, 100 nuthin and is impervious to recoil; however, the Compact fits her perfectly. As previously mentioned, the Savage Lady Hunter is very nice in 708 or 308. I would recommend the 308 for Elk, particularly if you don't reload. Ammo will be much easier to find.

[allaroundhunter]

I gave my future DIL a Ruger Compact Laminate in 260 for her graduation from Law School this year. She is 5 nuthin, 100 nuthin and is impervious to recoil; however, the Compact fits her perfectly. As previously mentioned, the Savage Lady Hunter is very nice in 708 or 308. I would recommend the 308 for Elk, particularly if you don't reload. Ammo will be much easier to find.

..... .308 ammo is nowhere to be found everywhere that I have looked, even online. I can find 7mm-08 pretty much anywhere, however.

[Geo_Erudite]

With the 6.5 creedmoor, keep in mind that Hornady is currently the only one making factory ammo as far as I know. I wouldnt say that its super hard to find, but availability can be spotty with it.

6.5 Creedmoor ammo isn't usually stocked on the shelves of your local gun shop, but it can be found on the internet or ordered through your local gun shop (I would say it is more available than 308 ir 223 ammo currently). In the summer of 2013 Nosler will be coming out with ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor; it will be loaded with 140 grain Accubonds.

[saltydog452]

Girls aren't as fragile as they'd have us believe.

They are sneaky, devious, and we love every cantakerious unpredictable bone in their body.

Most likely they can, and will, run longer, swim further, dive deeper, come up dryer, and look better afterward than us Neanderthals.

salty

[UniversalFrost]

i switched to the barnes x bullets years ago for .243 and can attest to them working well on larger whitetails in the midwest (southdakota) and to large muleys out to 200+ yards...

the nosler partitions i have used on elk and moose with great success in 300 win mag and 30/06 ....


also to note, i would only hunt elk with larger than .243... i would be thinking 7mm-08 at a minimum or maybe even 280 rem...

i love the .243 and shoot them all them time and raised my two oldest daughters to shoot them as first deer rifles, but like i said before i would switch to at least a 308 for an elk rifle... . my first 2 elk were shot with an old sporterized enfiled no4 mk1 in 303 british and using generic remington round nose soft points and the elk (both spikes) fell in their tracks... i was 17 and 18 yrs old for each of the kills and was glad just to draw a tag and was hunting for meat.... hit em in the boiler with a big slow moving round like the 303 brit or 35rem and they will fall... even 30/30 will take em' down...

[Geo_Erudite]

Article on a Savage Model 11 Lightweight in 6.5 Creedmoor. (http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_lightweight_hunter_6-5mm.htm)

Video of the Savage Model 11 Lightweight in 6.5 Creedmoor. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECKsFicSbrw)

[steveNChunter]

The .303 reference got me thinking about military calibers... What would be wrong with using a good old fashioned 8mm Mauser for elk? Similar ballistics to a 30-06 with a larger bullet diameter and slightly less recoil (depending on the stock, weight of the rifle). Hornady makes a great 195 gr hunting load for it.

It may still be more recoil than she would like though. Just a thought

[guntech59]

One more opinion, if you can stand it. Ruger made (makes?) a rifle in 6.5x55. Outstanding round. Great penetration with medium and heavy bullets, and mild recoil.

The 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmore will do the same things.

Good luck!

[hgmeyer]

Anything you can't do with a 7mm-08; you should not try doing with a .308. With the better bullets available (even in factory) it is a great round. The .308 would be my second choice (a distant second).

With three hunters/shooters in the family you simply must get into reloading. C hck out the advice here and at other sites for beginners... It isn't all that tough or expensive "to start". Once you do, you will never ever stop because of what you can do.

[Malamute]

I agree about using a premium grade bullet in the 243, it should help on odd angle shots and where you may need some extra penetration. Not all shots are simple side into the ribs shots. A friends wife uses a 243 with Nosler Partitions for elk, has for 20-some years I believe, without a lost critter.

I also agree with the general sentiment that IF the bullet goes right where you want it, it isnt generally a bullet failure, however, if a 243 was all that anyone really needed for elk, people wouldn't use larger calibers, they wouldnt have gained the reputaion they have for heavier animals, and the premium bullet makers would have never got off the ground. Heavier calibers can help, as can better grade bullets. I believe there is such a thing as bullet failure, for certain shots, and heavier animals in particular. Smaller caliber, relatively light weight, standard cup and core bullets can break up and/or fail to penetrate as well as desired when they hit heavy bones.

Another thought, IF you have a truly good gunsmith available, is rebarrel the 243 to 7-08 or 308. Factory take-off barrels can often be had for $50-$75. It would need to be fitted and headspaced, it may need to be set back a turn and rechambered, or perhaps not. She could then keep the stock she likes, and the gun would be familiar in al other respects. You could then sell the 243 barrel to recoup some of the expense.

[kilimanjaro]

Might try a Limbsaver slip-on recoil pad on that .270 or 30.06.

[hooligan1]

My daughter shot this buck at 75 yds dead on frontal shot, he ran just over a little rise in the pasture whre we couldn't see him but at the shot I knew she hit him good, and she practices as much as her work will allow. She finally stepped up to .270 win and loves it, and more importantly she shoots it well and loves to shoot it.

[JasoninSD]

I'll chime in for the 7/08 too. That and a .243 should serve her very well. I have shot three elk with the 7/08 and I have never had one need two shots and never had one go over 30 yards. As others have pointed out ammo is probably more available for the 7/08 now than the .308. But if you want to take full advantage of what the 7/08 has to offer you might want to get into reloading. There are bullets available from 100 to 175 grains and lots of good choices in the 120 to 140 range for deer and antelope and then you can use the 150 on up for elk.

[GeauxTide]

Went to 2 gun stores in Birmingham and WalMarts in Jasper, Sumiton, Hoover, and Alabaster, AL. All had 308 in 150s and the gun stores had Hornady, Rem, Win, Nosler, and Federal in 150, 165, and 180. Only the gun stores had 708.

[ammo.crafter]

Check out the performance and felt recoil of either: 7 x 57 or 6.5 x 55 calibers.

[Mauser8mm]

If you are not on a budget check this out

Savage 11/111 Lady Hunter

30-06 SPFLD

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11Lady

[Nim Rod]

Just bought her this pretty Ruger American 30.06 today, they threw in the Bushnell scope for free :)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/metawasmom/Patton%20Family/Mariah/3-28-13003.jpg

She LOVES it!!! Now to just get her out in the field with it :)
I have a gel pad shoulder piece she can use with it if needed.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t277/metawasmom/Patton%20Family/Mariah/3-28-13006.jpg

[Nim Rod]

I figure this way, we can share ammo :)

[AllenJ]

I think you made a great choice, the American is getting great reviews on this site as both accurate and a great deal. I look forward to seeing pictures next fall of her first kill with it.

[Nim Rod]

Thanks! You got it!
The only thing I don't like about it, is that the bolt doesn't lock down into place (neither does the one on my own Ruger....which tends to walk itself out of place when hiking rough terrain) but a good ol hair tie helps keep it in place.

[Doyle]

Good rifle choice, but plan on replacing that scope. The Bushnell scopes they put on the "package" deals are poor at best - many won't hold zero after only a box or two of shooting. Bushnell does make some great scopes, but only when you get up into their higher-end lines.