Makarov PM

[dakota.potts]

Some of you saw my other post in rifles discussing getting an AR and some discussion of a bolt action rifle was brought up.

Today my mom told me that they want to go shooting this weekend but they want to leave my little brother and I at home about half the times they go out because they don't feel able to practice efficiently with their guns reloading and everything if they're switching off every 5 shots for somebody else. Also they only take one box of ammo every time and instead of 50 rounds they may only get 20.

Shooting has become one of my favorite hobbies and I want to become more proficient, so I asked/offered to save up enough to buy my own in a different ammo size. I want a handgun (for now) because I'm only 17 and I have to be with my parents at whatever range they're at. If I get a rifle, I can't go down to the rifle range by myself and they can't practice if they're sitting at the rifle range with me.

So I think it would be sensible for me to consider getting a handgun myself. Obviously it would remain my parents' property legally until I turn 18 when they can gift it to me.

Anyways, I've been thinking a lot about the Makarov PM. My local Gander Mountain had some between $200 for an obviously used model to $360 for a very nice blued finish that I think was Bulgarian. I'm really intrigued by the antique/milsurp firearms (my wish list includes an M1 Garand, Mosin Nagant, K31, PPSh-41, etc.). I am told the round is something like a .380 with a little more punch and I can handle a .380 no problem. I can fire a .40 S&W as of now but it's still a little big for me to keep effectively on target or fire anything resembling a follow up shot. I am comfortable with DAO (could go either way). I hear good things about the accuracy and the reliability.

What really helps seal the deal is that with one of these, I could get the gun, some ammo, maybe an extra magazine, and a personal gun safe (one of the little handgun ones) for between $400-$500.

In my state you have to be 21 to carry a CCW so that won't be a concern for another 4 years. It would be really great if I felt comfortable after 4 years of practice to carry it but considering its antique status I would not be heartbroken buying another gun for that purpose later on the road if I decide this one isn't right.

One concern my parents had was that there is no official dealer or customer support that I can ship the gun too if something happens. However, I remember reading that there are only something like 27 parts and that any gunsmith should be able to fix it easily if something goes wrong. Can this be confirmed or denied?

What do you guys think in general?

Thanks!

[dwhite]

Go get yourself a rimfire .22 of some sort. Around here I can get a Beretta Neos for $269 before taxes.

You'll learn to shoot well, cheaply and won't develop any nasty flinching habits. Shooting something more powerful will come a lot easier.

Neos can be pretty accurate. Great satisfaction in tight groups with a .22LR. Not the best defensive caliber but well placed hits with a 22LR beats poorly placed misses with a 9mm Mak.

Just my 2 cents.


All the Best,
D. White

[Hansam]

I'm not sure she wants a .22lr.

Don't fall into the line of thinking that you need a .22.

Before January I had never fired a gun. Neither had my mom or my 10 year old brother. My parents got Sig Sauer handguns (mom's in .380 and dad's in .40 S&W) and took the NRA first steps class. It taught us all the basics and then we all took shots at a target. Everybody was able to handle the .380 with no problem.

Anyway I agree though that a .22lr pistol would be best to start with. I personally suggest a Ruger Mk II or Mk III but well I'm partial to Rugers and that particular model of .22lr semis. Either that or I'd suggest a Ruger Single Six or the newer production Single Tens... I do love those guns too!

[dakota.potts]

I am a guy, though. Rather ambiguous name.

I have pretty easy access to .22 including my grandpa's Ruger Mk I in .22 lr and I'm looking for something that I can grow into and won't leave me wishing for more or buying something bigger soon after.

The .380 I can fire no issue, double taps and fairly rapid fire with no flinch. The .40 I can't control as well but no flinch there either. I've emptied magazines on both without noticing and gone through smooth trigger pulls without flinch. I actually would prefer something that has a little bit of recoil to manage to build those skills.

I do know which .22 I'd get if I got one so I'm looking more for specific thoughts on the gun itself :)

[Cheapshooter]

+1 on the rimfire. In addition to the Neos, there are good choices in the Ruger MK series, and Browning Buckmark. If you want something closer in function, and appearance to a centerfire carry piece look at the Ruger SR22, Walther P22, Sig Mosquito, or Bersa.
The ammo will be much more affodable, and you will get a lot more shooting time in. You'll have four years to learn, and decide what kind of handgun you will want for concealed carry when the time comes.
If you don't want to go with a rimfire, the Mak is a good pistol, and in my experiance will function perfectly with the lower cost Russian ammo.

[dakota.potts]

Great answer, cheapshooter. Support of the .22 suggestion and experience with the Makarov at the same time. I will say that the .22 simply isn't what I'm interested in right now because I do want a mildly larger round. Not to mention I woudn't be able to shoot a .22 with the ammo shortages around here that are expected to last until June. But I'll listen to everyone's opinion because it's never bad to think on some of them long term.

EDIT: Although that isn't to say the Ruger series especially the Mk I-III aren't tempting

[Spats McGee]

You want something that you'll grow into. That's understandable and it's fine. The thing about the .22, though, is that you never grow OUT of it. You may want something bigger down the road, and those bigger things will still be out there. That Ruger Mk I, which I'm guessing costs you NOTHING to shoot . . . How many rounds of .22 can you put through it for the same cost as that $200 pistol?

Besides, .22 is just plain ol' fun!

[BitterTait]

Mak's are reliable, simple, accurate, battle tested and cheep, you won't regret buying it. Not to mention the 9x18 round (in my area at least) has a nice balance of obscurity and availability that meant I could find it at most gun stores throughout the shortage even when .22lr and 9x19 were unfindable. only real complains I have is the mag release (I put a keyring through mine to make it easier to use) and the fact that you don't have as many holster/accessory options as some more popular guns.

As far as repair, not worth worrying about. It's a communist era soviet design, they just work. If anything does go wrong the gun can be completely detail stripped easily and any broken part can be found at Numrich.

one caveate: the cheepest ammo is the milled steel russan stuff, brown/silver/gold bear etc. The ammo functions perfectly (although dirty) but very few ranges allow it.

[Hansam]

I apologize - for some reason I thought you were a girl.

Anyway there's really no reason not to start with a .22. As for flinching etc. how do you know you're not flinching?

Can you take a .380acp or a .40sw and at 50 ft shoot consistent tight groups with either gun? Have you tried shooting groups in slow fire or did you just go to the range and empty mags? While emptying mags in rapid fire is fun and I love double tapping I also practice plenty of slow controlled fire in an attempt to make my shooting better and more accurate. That's where the .22 comes into play the most.

See with a .22 you can afford more ammo and that means more shots fired - more trigger time. With slow controlled fire you'll learn proper grip, breathing, trigger control and sight picture. Everything you learn on a .22 can then be transposed to a larger caliber handgun later.

Aside from that I mean no offense but you seem rather inexperienced at shooting and I've seen many a young shooter (I'm only 36 so I'm not exactly old either) go and empty mag after mag without hitting their target at all but be proud of themselves because they managed to empty mag after mag "without flinching." Make them shoot slowly though and slip the occasional snap cap into the mag at random and you illustrate clearly and quickly how they DO flinch when they fire and thus can't hit anything with their guns.

Basically before you start talking like you know what you're doing take the time to get the knowledge AND the experience first. I started at age 5 with a .22. 31 years later I'm still shooting more .22lr than any other caliber I own and I'm STILL learning to be a better shooter.

[dakota.potts]

I've come on this board twice now asking about buying a certain type of weapon.

And both times the only thing it's convinced me is to buy that weapon AND the popular suggestion. haha but seriously I appreciate the input on both sides.

[dakota.potts]

Hansam,
It was only this last trip to the range where I even attempted a double tap and only on the last magazine for a bit of fun.

Normally I'd say it takes me about 30-40 seconds to fire 5 rounds after breathing, properly resetting, and a slow controlled trigger pull. This is how I know I don't flinch. More than once that trigger pull has come and there has been no bang of the gun and no jump of my hand.

I put the 3 rounds of the .380 in a one inch group at 15 yards and it's no problem picking out an arm, head, or chest. Not that that's spectacular (or even particularly good) but I don't want to give the impression that I'm just dumping magazines for the fun of it. I do at least try to take myself seriously.

I do however appreciate your straightforward opinions on this subject as I understand your viewpoint.

[carguychris]

one caveate: the cheepest ammo is the milled steel russan stuff, brown/silver/gold bear etc. The ammo functions perfectly (although dirty) but very few ranges allow it.
I'd like to emphasize this concern and restate it a bit. The issue is that most ammo on the market in 9x18mm Makarov has steel cases. Many ranges do not allow steel-case ammo because it typically also has steel in the bullets, which increases the ricochet and fire risk, and chews up steel backstops and target hangers at indoor ranges.

Unless you KNOW you can shoot the steel-case stuff locally, I strongly recommend checking whether your local retailers normally sell brass-case 9mm Mak ammo at a price you consider reasonable. (I say "normally" because they may be out of everything but .32 S&W Long, 9mm Largo, and .30 Luger right now. :rolleyes: Current market conditions are not normal. You'll probably need to ask.)

FWIW the Makarov pistol was also commercially marketed in .380ACP, and these pistols actually take the exact same mags as the 9mm Mak versions. The commercial Maks lack that milsurp mystique, but prices are slightly lower, and ammo is less of a concern. :)

[Pilot]

Others have provided some good info on Makarovs. I have four of them, an East German, two Bulgarians, and a Russian Commercial model in .380. They are all well made, reliable and accurate firearms for what they are. I sometimes carry a Bulgie for CCW and feel well armed. Like others have said, these guns really don't break. They are built like tanks. Russian tanks.

You will not be disappointed with the Makarov, and even if you are, you can get your money back on them very easily. You see the Mak is no longer made, nor imported, and the supply is pretty static, and demand for these little Combloc gems has also increased.

While a .22LR pistol may be better to start with for practice, it will not ever be able to really do the job of a self defense pistol on a practical level.

[qwiksdraw]

The Makarov you have been looking at is a fair price, and with the extras you want.

This gun would be a good gun to get right now for you, it is built tough as nails, easy to maintain and parts are still available if you need them. Maks are very reliable and accurate...and loads of fun.

You can buy this gun and plan on keeping it for a very long time. Never sell it!

Here's a place you can find some real Makaholics:
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?46-The-Makarov-Forum

Be sure to shoot often, be safe and have fun!

Here's my Russian Commercial

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh537/qwiksdraw/Makarov%20IJ%2070/photo.jpg

[lowercase]

Makarovs are great little pistols. Rugged, reliable, simple, fairly accurate, and most importantly for me...FUN. I even CCW one from time to time.

I have 2 Bulgarian Makarovs and they both run flawlessly and I don't have trouble finding ammo.

If you can grab a Makarov, by all means do so. It's hard to go wrong with one.

Here's a pic of the one I carry. It's an old police or military weapon with lots of holster wear, but it shoots great. I added the rubber Pearce grips. My other Makarov is in almost mint condition, so I baby it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img818/9369/bulgarianmakarov.jpg

[chupps]

The Makarov is a great handgun. Mine is in my carry rotation. Fits my hand like a glove. Of my carry guns (SW 442 and baby glock 9mm) I'm most accurate with my Mak. I believe the Mak's fixed barrel contributes to this.

You won't regret buying it.

[TripleL]

+++1 on the Makarov, great gun and not a bad investment too. You'll never lose money on it should you decide to sell, and I don't know why anyone would want to do that. Better hurry and get the gun NOW and not talk about it. They go pretty fast. Lots of guys have lost because they waited a day, or even less.

[dakota.potts]

I'm fairly certain my range will allow steel case ammo. We have a lovely outdoor range here. We've fired aluminum cased blazers and stuff but I'll be sure to call ahead and check.

I get paid next Tuesday and Wednesday hopefully, so if I have enough left over after I've bought some needed music supplies, I may be taking a trip to the store with my parents to maybe come home with one (after the 3 day waiting period). I likely don't have enough money for ammo, magazines, a holster, or a safe but I'd rather have it and not be able to feed it then go next month and it disappear.

If not, Gunbroker seems to always have them fairly cheap.

[Mausermolt]

buy the Mak. i bought mine for 200$ and 3 boxes of 9mm luger ammo about 4 years ago. when i got it i didnt really know what i was getting into. i saw it, it was a milsurp, i liked the way it fit in my hand, so i just "had to have it" :D took it out the next day and have been in love with it ever since. i would shoot it more if i could find ammo locally. that is the one thing that i would be cautious about before you commit. make sure you have a ammo source before you dive into it. usually i throw a few boxes in the shopping cart from Aim when i make a large ammo order. in conclusion: youll like it. go for it.

[docnyt]

I hope the 9 mm Luger above is a typo. The Makarov PM is available in 9x18 Makarov, and .380 mentioned above. Please don't use 9 mm Luger. The results can be YouTube material, comrade.

[dakota.potts]

I think he traded $200 and 3 boxes of luger ammo to get the Makarov.

[GyMac]

I have 4 Maks: an E. German, Bulgarian military, Bulgarian commercial, and a Russian commercial in .380. They are all great guns and some of my favorites. I carry the Bulgarian military (always) and am very happy with it. The design may be dated, but I prefer it. It's not a matter of cost, I just like it.

[docnyt]

I think he traded $200 and 3 boxes of luger ammo to get the Makarov.

Gotcha. Good luck getting a Mak. They can be addictive. 2 East Germans, a Bulgarian, a Russian military, Russian commercial later and still collecting them. There are some prized examples like the Simson Suhl and Millitek (spelling?) that pop up every now and then.

There's lots of info at makarov.com and gunboards. I picked up a 22 barrel conversion and a steel BB Baikal a while back. I wouldn't hesitate to carry an East German or Bulgarian.