Springfield Armory MC Operator Finish Wear

[Rick F]

Hi guys.

I just purchased a Springfield MC Operator, and haven't even been to the range with it yet, but have been dry firing (with snap caps) quite a bit. Tonight I took a look and noticed some wear completely through the finish on the muzzle end, and also on the frame where it is making contact. Is this normal, and to be expected? For reference, my Kimber has no signs of wear in this area. It looks like the round cut in the frame isn't perfectly rounded on that side. Please look at the crappy iphone pics below. Thanks.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8463/8424813441_273c18fc48_m.jpg

[Rick F]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8424813417_768044c7fa_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8227/8424813425_f3f71da1b4_m.jpg

[Misssissippi Dave]

I can't tell much from the pictures. What are you using for lubrication?

[Rick F]

Hi Dave. I'm using M-Pro 7 & it's lubed sufficiently. I can see the frame in the dust cover area is not machined perfectly round. And to reiterate, I haven't even fired it yet. I've prob racked the slide about 50x so far with snap caps, or slowly released without snap caps. I find this unacceptable for a $1350 pistol.

[bigghoss]

Mine has no wear at all on the finish except on the rails where the slide rides. If you aren't satisfied with the pistol call Springfield and they'll take care of you.

[Rick F]

Hopefully Springfield will step up. What should I expect of them? At this point, I don't feel I should be paying for anything, not even shipping it back. Everyone knock Kimber, but my Eclipse has not had a single malfunction for the 500+ rounds I've put thru her. Granted the slide stop and safety aren't very high quality, and the sights weren't adjusted from the factory, but the frame is as tight as can be, and the slide/frame fit on the rear is perfect. Makes the SA look like a joke.

[Auto426]

It's not uncommon to see a 1911 with a slight rub on the front of the slide from the dust cover. It's usually a tolernace stacking issue, but it doesn't affect function or accuracy. You can even find some non 1911 type pistols that suffer from it as well.

[bigghoss]

Hopefully Springfield will step up. What should I expect of them? At this point, I don't feel I should be paying for anything, not even shipping it back.

They pay shipping both ways. You call them up and tell them the issue. They email you a shipping label and you pack up the gun and drop it off at the shipping facility. When it's done they ship it directly back to your home.

[Rick F]

Thanks everyone. When I look at the frame, it appears it's not fully radiused at the 5 o'clock position. It's like there is extra material that was not machined out. I'm a little ****** as it's completely thru the finish already before I even fired a round. Again, I don't think this is acceptable for the price point.

[Misssissippi Dave]

I would make sure you did register the pistol with them before calling. You can do that on line. Give CS a call and they should take care of things for you. If they return the same pistol you can get it shipped to your house. If they replace it, it will have to go to a dealer to be picked up. The dealer I would have it sent to is the one you bought it from.

I have a Range Officer with only a few hundred rounds through it so far. It's been great. There is a little finish worn off on the rails in places. The rails are a tight fit. It has a match grade barrel and is quite accurate too.

Try to speak nicely to the CS people and you probably will have them doing everything possible to make you happy.

[Rick F]

I left a message with SA. I will advise outcome when they call back. Thanks everyone.

[Rick F]

How long does it normally take to get a response from SA? Still haven't heard an answer to my email or voicemail. I waited on hold with customer service today for my entire lunch hour, and could not get through.

[bigghoss]

Wow, they must be busy. I've had to wait on hold for a few minuets but never an hour.

I guess just keep trying, they are usually pretty helpful.

[Kreyzhorse]

They must be swamped. Their customer service is some of the best in the business. Keep trying till you get a live person and they should take care of you.

As an FYI..... They might want to see some better pictures of the problems before they decide on a course of action. I'd work on getting those so you can can provide them instantly.

[Rick F]

As an FYI..... They might want to see some better pictures of the problems before they decide on a course of action. I'd work on getting those so you can can provide them instantly.

Definitely. I lost the stupid proprietary cable for my camera. I'm going to use the fiance's later. I really didn't want to because she bought me a new one that I returned, saying "I don't need that." We all know where this is gonna head with her lol.

[Rick F]

One of my friends who is the most serious shooter I know- I mean his dad runs the local range and they teach youth courses, etc. took a look at it, and in under a second saw how they messed up the machine work and laughed.

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

[Rick F]

:::::::: Update ::::::::


Today I received an email, FedEx return label, and a phone call from SA. I'm disappointed with the response time, but the call was courteous. I sent it out today, and hopefully I hear back quickly.

Now, for my question. If they refinish, will this pistol be in any worse shape than brand new? Is there a limit to how many times you would refinish a pistol? Based on my automobile experience, I would not own a repainted car (unless it's a custom hotrod) as the finish is never as good as the original OEM. Should I be concerned with that here?

[Kreyzhorse]

That is the Army Kote finish I think? If that is the case, I believe it is a spray on / bake finish and I can't imagine that if Springfield refinishes it, it would be a concern in any way.

[Rick F]

That is the Army Kote finish I think? If that is the case, I believe it is a spray on / bake finish and I can't imagine that if Springfield refinishes it, it would be a concern in any way.

Thanks Kreyzhorse. It is indeed Armory Kote.

[HKFan9]

SA is the best CS in the industry.... I know.. I deal with all of them on a daily basis usually. SA has been really backed up, they also suspended our pro-staff orders (personal orders for dealers) for at least 60 days.

Just be patient with them, everyone is extremely busy, and you can blame your elected idiots... I mean officials for that. SA will make it right though... they always do.

I have their Lightweight Champion Operator, with Armory Kote as well... I love that gun. I know its not made as well as some of the higher end 1911's out there, but it certainly holds its own side by side with them.

[Rick F]

I sent an email asking about getting the front strap checkered (+/- $200), and they told me I would have to pay the price for this service, plus the price to refinish it ($80), plus return shipping ($15). If I just get the defect fixed, the refinish cost and shipping is free. I tried to explain to her that if I get the defects covered, they will be FREE, so why would I be charged for these if I pay for the checkering? I questioned the lady, and she reiterated her previous stating "checkering is not a defect."


She also said it will take 12 weeks, regardless of if I just get it fixed, or if I also get it checkered.


I'm am NOT a happy camper so far.

[Rick F]

Here's my latest response from SA:

First, the repair dept. has to determine if the issues are warranty and then address them. That department usually quotes around 2 to 4 weeks. If you would like to have any upgrades done then it would go into the Custom shop. Machine checkering (an upgrade) is what takes +/- 12wks not the Repair dept. If the frame is not correctly machined and the Repair dept. has to refit slide to frame or any other work then it “usually” takes them 2 to 4 weeks. They will refinish in that department and all warranty work is of course free. The Repair/Warranty dept. would address issues that are under warranty and reship back to the owner of the firearm all free. Any upgrades goes into the Custom shop, such as Checkering which is running around 12 weeks – there is no rushing in this dept. If you have checkering done and it will require refinishing then the procedure is to charge for that cost and return shipping. I cannot override this procedure. I will forward this email to Mr. Williams and ask him to reply back to me or you with your request. The departments are separate. The Repair/Warranty all under warranty and the Custom shop a department of “upgrades” . If you have no upgrades done and the Repair/Warranty dept. finds your pistol to be all warranty then of course it will be repaired and returned with no charge.

So basically they have to do the warranty work, refinish, and return it to me. Then I mail it back, they strip it again, and do the front strap, and refinish? That is the type of bureaucracy only a liberal could create. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

I had an issue with my SIG a while back, and it was fixed under warranty. After I sent it, I asked the CS rep if I could add their "Action Enhancement Package." He said "no problem," asked for my CC#, and it was a done deal. He obviously didn't charge shipping becasue it was already covered under the warranty process. I thought I would go ahead and do the same thing here.

Maybe Mr. Williams will be able to do something here, as my experiences with his company and product so far have been gutter.

[Shane Tuttle]

I've waited patiently to see just how the tone of the thread as a whole was going to transpire from beginning to end. I don't think the end result is going to matter much at this point. Here's my assessment:

1. From the get-go it's obvious you're not going to be happy if a member of the Reese family would personally deliver your Operator when they're finished with the warranty work.

2. History on my business with them dictated they would have to "charge" me with upgrades on the gun and such like they're doing with you only to receive the finished product at my doorstep with an invoice showing a zero balance (minus the upgrade itself).

So basically they have to do the warranty work, refinish, and return it to me. Then I mail it back, they strip it again, and do the front strap, and refinish? That is the type of bureaucracy only a liberal could create. I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

That's not what I'm reading.

I'd sure like to see the full email to see the whole context of what Springfield is responding.

[Rick F]

Hello Shane. I've posted the correspondence below, from most recent to oldest like reading a regular email string. I've left out the earlier stuff citing the initial issues, and return authorization, etc for brevity. My responses are RED, hers are BLACK.

Hello Richard,

First, the repair dept. has to determine if the issues are warranty and then address them. That department usually quotes around 2 to 4 weeks. If you would like to have any upgrades done then it would go into the Custom shop. Machine checkering (an upgrade) is what takes +/- 12wks not the Repair dept. If the frame is not correctly machined and the Repair dept. has to refit slide to frame or any other work then it “usually” takes them 2 to 4 weeks. They will refinish in that department and all warranty work is of course free. The Repair/Warranty dept. would address issues that are under warranty and reship back to the owner of the firearm all free. Any upgrades goes into the Custom shop, such as Checkering which is running around 12 weeks – there is no rushing in this dept. If you have checkering done and it will require refinishing then the procedure is to charge for that cost and return shipping. I cannot override this procedure. I will forward this email to Mr. Williams and ask him to reply back to me or you with your request. The departments are separate. The Repair/Warranty all under warranty and the Custom shop a department of “upgrades” . If you have no upgrades done and the Repair/Warranty dept. finds your pistol to be all warranty then of course it will be repaired and returned with no charge.

Thank you,


Amanda


Hello Amanda,

I do not think you are understanding me here.

The frame is not correctly machined.The slide is rubbing against it, causing the finish to wear off on both the frame and slide. This is the defect I am referencing.

Since this is a brand new, unfired pistol, I am under the assumption that SA would be refinishing the pistol under warranty. That is why I am asking if I paid for checkering, why I would pay for the refinishing and the shipping, being these 2 charges should be accounted for under warranty.


Regards,
Rick



Checkering is a upgrade not a defect. Our factory pistols that have the checkering in production takes 12 wks also, at least. If you would like to email the Director of the Custom shop, that would be Mr. David Williams at [email protected].

Thank you,

Amanda




Hello Amanda,

Thank you for your reply. I would understand paying the fee for the checkering, but I find paying additional for the refinishing (which presumably is covered due to manufacturer defects) and return shipping (which presumably is covered due to manufacturer defects). It is shipping back to me from the same place, no?

And just to be clear, even if I do not add any custom work, and it requires machine work due to defects, I will be waiting for 12 weeks?

Can you give me supervisor contact information?


Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Rick



Hello Rich,

The Repair/Warranty dept. is a separate department that will inspect your pistol for the issues listed below. When a pistol goes into the Repair/Warranty dept and is found to be under warranty, then there is of course no charge. The Custom shop is a department of upgrades and they charge a return shipping out of their dept. no matter if the pistol came in from Repair or not. The machine shop is running around 12wks for all departments. Since we are separate from the Repair/Warranty dept. the price for the upgrades are as stated below.

The difference between the checkering for hand and machine is that I tell people “if you want it perfect or you are a collector to go with the hand checkering”. The machine checkering is very nice and majority of the people will go with it. It is really your preference.

Let me know if I can help you out with any upgrades.

Thank you,

Amanda



Hello Amanda,

Thank you for the reply. I purchased an MC Operator brand new a few weeks ago, and have yet to fire a single shot. After purchase, I’ve noticed the frame is misshapen near the muzzle end, causing the finish to wear off on the frame (at 5 o’clock position if muzzle facing you) and on the slide.

I’m assuming SA will either be A.) sending me a different brand new pistol or B.) Re-machining the frame and re-finishing. I figured if its option B.) I could get this treatment done at the same time. I hope this 12 week timeframe does not apply to me! I would also assume I would not have to pay the refinishing fee or the return shipping either.

What is the difference between hand and machine checkering? My Kimber seems very harsh, while my SIG seems to have the checkering filed down a bit, almost like small pyramids. It’s nowhere near as aggressive.


Regards,
Rick



Good Afternoon Rick,

The image did not come through for the Custom shop to view. I can tell you that we offer machine checkering of the front strap 20lpi $150 (more aggressive) 25lpi $160 (a nice compromise between aggressive and fine checkering) and 30lpi $170 (fine checkering – the least aggressive of the 3) The frame would have to be refinished – Armory kote is $80.00 and the Custom shop charges a reprocessing/reshipping fee of $15.00 for a 2 day return. Please see the attached price sheet. The machine shop is running around 12 weeks +/-.

Let me know if there is something I can help you out with.

Thank you,

Amanda

[Rick F]

I do not think I am being unreasonable here, but as ppl tend to be irrational when irritated, feel free to advise.

I paid $1350 plus fees and tax for this gun brand new.

I've spent well over an hour and a half between 4 attempts, on hold without getting anyone at SA to pick up.

I sent an email and left a voicemail amd waited a week to get response and a call back. (All of which were very courteous, and fast after the inital response.)

I had to buy a box to place it in, and drive half an hour to a fedex location to drop off.

Now I'm sure I'll have to wait a few weeks to get a resolution.

If they re-machine this one, I have to worry about the quality of finish. It's the equivalent of paying top dollar for a new car that I find out has been repainted. To me this gun has lost quite a bit of value already. Best case scenario is it's almost as good as new. If I wanted to sell this, I would inform the buyer of the history. If it was me, personally, I would walk away from it.

If I get a new one from SA, I have to pay to apply to purchase another handgun purchase permit. They took about 4 months BEFORE Obama was re-elected. I can only imagine how long it will take now.

I value my time and money, and so far this has a big f'ing headache.

[scottl]

Your worried about having a refinished gun but yet your willing to get it checkered?

I see no problem with them charging people return shipping if the gun goes to custom shop after warranty repairs.Why should the free warranty ship/return cover on your custom work?

You can go to any of the 1911 dedicated forums and learn that this has been Springfield's policy for awhile.

And the repair shop and custom shop are twp separate animals.

[Rick F]

Your worried about having a refinished gun but yet your willing to get it checkered?

I see no problem with them charging people return shipping if the gun goes to custom shop after warranty repairs.Why should the free warranty ship/return cover on your custom work?

You can go to any of the 1911 dedicated forums and learn that this has been Springfield's policy for awhile.

And the repair shop and custom shop are twp separate animals.


I don't want the gun refinished. I prefer a new one with a frame that's actually shaped right. I'm assuming that they are just going to refinish this one. If they do refinish the defective one, I figured I might as well get the checkering done.

Custom shop is the same machine shop as the repair shop. They are 2 different teams in a hierarchical sense. In the email she stated that all of their regular, non-custom guns that have checkering are done in the same place.

[JED1177]

who ever decided to start painting guns? Geez....

We learned a long time ago that two metal surfaces rubbing on each other will wear the softest of the two. If they are both the same hardness, they gall.

Is it just me, or why would anyone be amazed that paint would wear off?


As far a Springfield Armory, they have a very good service department and a reputation to go with it. You need to talk to Dave. I have known him for years and he has personally handled all of my tuning, repairs, etc without fault. You either leave 100% satisfied or he stays on it until you are.

But then again, I don't buy painted pistols.

[Rick F]

who ever decided to start painting guns? Geez....

We learned a long time ago that two metal surfaces rubbing on each other will wear the softest of the two. If they are both the same hardness, they gall.

Is it just me, or why would anyone be amazed that paint would wear off?

Hi Jed. My issue is that the finish or paint wore off before I even fired it. It is a sympton of the fact that the frame is not shaped right. I know I should have taken better pics, but I drew a little pic to show the issue.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8454012348_625e2027f7_b.jpg

[JED1177]

and we are cut from the same cloth on fit and finish. I have always cringed at the finish wearing off the sides of my grip safety, so I can be correctly accused of being "anal".

I toyed with a "painted" Springfield Armory but realized that type of coating will not compare to nickel or better yet, stainless. I'm obviously "old school".

As far as your drawing, I agree with you 100%. Even with close inspection at time of purchase, these things are hard to catch. Knowing Dave as I do, I think with your explanation, he will make it right. He has a reputation of that type of customer service.

Unrelated. but along the same lines, one thing I learned years ago about Berettas is to sight down the top of the barrel and ensure there is the same amount of light showing on each side were the barrel passes thru the front of the slide. If the tolerance is not the same on both sides, you will end up with a barrel that will lose its finish where it rides, not unlike your issue with the SA.

Insist on talking to Dave and keep us updated on your outcome.

[Rick F]

^ Thanks for the reply Jed. That's what I love about the finish on my SIG- bead-blasted stainless. I'm tired of working on this- I'm giving up. This isn't a regular warranty issue. This is a clear failure of quality control. Shouldn't someone inspect the frame as it's assembled? I measured it with a caliper and it's clearly off.

All I wanted was:
- SA to machine the damn front strap for whatever charge they ask
- Refinish and ship back free, as it would under warranty if I didn't get it checkered.
- Have this done within around 2-3 weeks

If I want this service, I will have to pay for a refinish, shipping, and the checkering, plus wait 16- 18 weeks to get this POS back.

Apparently my simple request makes me an unreasonable SOB in their book. Now I get the "I said you shoulda bought the HK USP .45" from the fiance. I wish I never bought this POS.

[HKFan9]

What your going to learn, or what you are running into... is the literal fact that Springfield and Springfields' custom shop... are generally two separate entities entirely almost.

What is pretty much happening is they will inspect your frame in the Repair shop... if it is that bad out of spec they will replace the frame.. if it can be fixed they will re-fit it, polish it, and refinish in the repair center.. and send it back free of charge... in approximately the quoted time.

I understand your point of if you wanted custom work done why refinish the gun in the first place... but you have to understand.. this isn't your local gun smith or even a small custom 1911 shop. They are a corporation... and they run it like one, that can be good and bad. They have that policy and return around time for the custom shop because they will be dealing with THOUSANDS of guns. Where as the "smiths" in the warranty repair center.. are no where near the smiths in the custom shop... and generally they probably don't let the two mix often.

I understand you want your issue fixed, and the work done at once, but really you must understand as a business stance... sometimes its not fisable dealing with the scale they work with, especially with EVERYONE in the industry on Red Alert at the moment. No custom shop would have the turn around time your asking for right now, generally speaking. My local 1911 smith is a GREAT guy.. but hes backed up 6 months at the month. So you should be lucky SA is even quoting a time frame at the moment.


However since you seem to hate the gun... I would take it off your hands for $500 if your interested, would go nice with my Champion Operator.;)

[erhodes]

Dealing with any customer service can be a pain right now but if you had to choose one Springfield's is one of the best. It may take a while but they will do you right in the end.

And hey, if you don't want it when you get it back I'd be willing to put in $900 for it. It would go great with my customized Springfield GI and Sig Scorpion. :cool:

[Rick F]

I emailed SA asking for an update. I received a phone a phone call from a nice woman who went over a few things with me. She said a tech has started working on it, but he is going to be out for a few days. They like to keep the same tech with the gun, so I should expect to get further clarity in about 10 days or so.

She said that if they can get it to work, I'll be getting the same gun back. The rails have to be adjusted or straightened or something, the frame and slide has to be refit, the grip safety has to be refit, and the thumb safety has to be refit. Then it will be refinished. I wonder how much integrity I'm going to lose here. Hopefully it's not like a car getting repaired after an accident where the frame was bent.

I asked her about the clandestine "Custom Shop" and the repair center. They are the same place, but work under a different hierarchy. They may or may not be the same techs. She wasn't sure.

[SoilworK777]

To Rick F,

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If they have a single person do all the adjusting/hand fitting, they must care about the end result. What does boggle me is the cost involved in doing so, which they are eating. It would be cheaper to give you a brand new pistol. I am the QC manager in a parts manufacturing facility, and I have an idea of what these kinds of things cost.

I assume they will test fire the gun to ensure functionality/safety before sending it back to you. What I would ask them is if they will have someone competent see what kinds of groups the pistol gives AFTER the work is done.

My $.02

[Caz83]

@ Rick F,

Your illustration is the exact same malformity that I had when I bought my DW Guardian. I found it at a gunshow for $1K and jumped at it only to find once I brought it home that it had a good 1/4" scratch in the front left of the slide. (I assume they knew about the flaw, hence the great price). The frame had too much metal right where yours was. Anyways, the Para customer service I had gone through before had left a bad taste in my mouth so I went to the guys I bought it from which, by sheer luck, was very close to where I live and have an in-house smith. I showed them the flaw and they sanded, polished and re-finished it within a week and has been flawless ever since.

This was a year ago, BTW so lead times were normal.

[Rick F]

Thanks Soilwork. I can't believe it had so many issues. I'm glad I never fired it. Regardless, I'm bummed about the situation, as it obviously lost a great bit of value. Will realigning the rails (I forgot the actual term) cause the gun to loosen up? And will they bend the slide on an angle to compensate? I've seen tightened pistols like that, where people have crushed them in a vise, and I will be pretty ****** if it looks that sloppy. Despite the few months it would take to acquire a new pistol permit, I'd prefer a new one, regardless of the cost or man hours.

She also mentioned that their repair department has been going crazy recently. Even though there has been a mass buying spree since Obama was re-elected, and the Sandy shooting, warranty and repairs should be residual. It should take at least a year for the increase in sales to catch up with the increase in repair work. This leads me to believe they've been rushing their product to market without an adequate QC in place.

[ScottRiqui]

"Bend the slide to compensate"? "Crush it in a vise"??

Dude, your gun is **at the factory**, not "Rocco's School of Handgun Repair".

There's no reason to believe that your gun is going to leave the factory in anything other than perfect shape. In fact, it's probably going to get about ten times as much personal love and attention as any random gun off the line.

[Rick F]

^ Thank CAZ

Good to know I'm not the first to have this problem (misery loves company?) It looks like mine had more issues than just that. That's why I'm concerned. I also paid full MSRP for mine. My local shop told me to send it back to SA myself as their customer service treats end consumers better than shops. Maybe that was a nice way to tell me to go f myself?

If they had that gun at the shop as a "special" and they sent it back to SA for repair, I wouldn't pay more than $800 for it. At this point, when it comes back to me, even if it comes back in proper form, I'm still going to feel a** raped for all the effort and time for it for the amount I paid.

[Rick F]

"Bend the slide to compensate"? "Crush it in a vise"??

Dude, your gun is **at the factory**, not "Rocco's School of Handgun Repair".

There's no reason to believe that your gun is going to leave the factory in anything other than perfect shape. In fact, it's probably going to get about ten times as much personal love and attention as any random gun off the line.



I took this pic from another forum. This is what SACS did to refit his frame on his TRP:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Quackzilla/Guns/DSC_2500.jpg

[ScottRiqui]

I don't have another TRP to compare it to, so I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Are the tops of the frame rails not supposed to be rounded like that? Or is he just upset about the gap between the extractor and the slide? I'm not a gunsmith, but the slide/frame fit actually looks okay to me.

[Rick F]

I don't have another TRP to compare it to, so I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Are the tops of the frame rails not supposed to be rounded like that? Or is he just upset about the gap between the extractor and the slide? I'm not a gunsmith, but the slide/frame fit actually looks okay to me.

How the frame rails are bent down to make it tighter.

[ScottRiqui]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks.

[SoilworK777]

That is something...

That's the kind of "repair" you would do to a 10 year old lawnmower to get it running again.

Total horse sh**. I would add that bending the rails on a hardened receiver might lead to stress fractures later. I bet if you did that yourself it would void the warranty.

[Caz83]

That's the second time I've heard of a crap TRP come out of SA. I've seen on another forum where a reputable smith took pictures of the fitting and beveling he had to do to make one right. I'm just really surprised that, for the money you spend and reputation SA has, the TRP should have little if any flaws. I know that as a mass producer and manufacturer, there will be flaws come out of Q/C but I consider their TRP and Loaded models their top-of-the-line models out of their catalog. Makes me think twice about that TRP Operator on my To-Own list. Always wanted a full rail TRP.

[Venom1956]

I'd really like a picture where i can see the actual wear on the gun? Not saying its not there but I'm curious.

[Auto426]

I took this pic from another forum. This is what SACS did to refit his frame on his TRP:

That's an old school method of tightening the slide to frame fit on a 1911. There's nothing wrong with it and smiths have been doing it for decades.

If they had that gun at the shop as a "special" and they sent it back to SA for repair, I wouldn't pay more than $800 for it. At this point, when it comes back to me, even if it comes back in proper form, I'm still going to feel a** raped for all the effort and time for it for the amount I paid.

You haven't even fired a single round from the gun yet. Slight slide rubs are not uncommon, and from what I read every time you send a gun into Springfield for a single issue they have a tendency to "fix" more than what is actually wrong with the gun.

[Venom1956]

Seems to me you bought a gun that you really didn't like as you already had reservations about SA to begin with. The turn around time estimate you got seems pretty damn good IMO considering all the insanity/demand currently. I know of a Glock that took over 6 months for a grip reduction...

I've had some time with a TRP Full railed operator and let me tell you Armory Kote (no offense to anyone) isn't much to get worked up over, isn't very pretty, durable, or special. It is easy to maintain and touch up. You bought a workin' mans gun IMO. Its built for use not looks. Kinda like complaining that the tree branches you thru in scratched your truck bed. If it really bothers you get a better coating to protect it. There are like a billion options.

I'm sure if there is an issue with the gun SA will take care of it to the best of their ability.

[Rick F]

That's an old school method of tightening the slide to frame fit on a 1911. There's nothing wrong with it and smiths have been doing it for decades.

How many times can you do that to a frame/slide? Once? Twice? I plan on keeping all of my firearms for life. If this has to be done now, it means its one less time I could do this in the future.

Seems to me you bought a gun that you really didn't like as you already had reservations about SA to begin with.
Not at all. I searched for one for a few months, and finally tracked it down and paid full MSRP.


The turn around time estimate you got seems pretty damn good IMO considering all the insanity/demand currently. I know of a Glock that took over 6 months for a grip reduction...
Sorry my pics suck. Your Glock example is for custom work. One should expect to wait, as one bought the product with that in mind. My situation is to get a product that fell through the QC cracks repaired so it can pass a QC test.


I've had some time with a TRP Full railed operator and let me tell you Armory Kote (no offense to anyone) isn't much to get worked up over, isn't very pretty, durable, or special. It is easy to maintain and touch up. You bought a workin' mans gun IMO. Its built for use not looks. Kinda like complaining that the tree branches you thru in scratched your truck bed. If it really bothers you get a better coating to protect it. There are like a billion options.
This is a gun that's flawed from the factory. It is not just the finish- that is the sympton I found to see the frame was not properly machined. The slide/frame fit is the equivalent of the "square peg in the round hole." It's $1500 out the door. Would you buy a brand new truck at full sticker price that was keyed along the flanks because you planned on using it asa work truck? Really?

[Auto426]

How many times can you do that to a frame/slide? Once? Twice? I plan on keeping all of my firearms for life. If this has to be done now, it means its one less time I could do this in the future.

The cost of the ammo to wear the gun out to the point where the slide and frame are so loose that the gun no longer functions properly would easily buy you a dozen or so new TRPs.

[Rick F]

I know a lot of you guys are going to tell me to "suck it up" but I'm not happy with it.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8227/8506577727_f50ec32ca1_m.jpg

Please advise if that groove is normal running down the length of the frame. My 1911 expert friend said it's not normal (he owns and comptetitvely shoots a wide range of 1911's from Dan Wesson, STI, Springfield, Kimber, Charles Daly, and RIA). And I know my Kimber does not show any wear there. It sort of looked like a weld line, and not a gauge, but it was hard for me to tell. Maybe it's from the barrel lug?!?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8507687164_6647e36133_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8506576409_d295f823ae_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8388/8506576003_c790b1ebc9_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8506574711_7d9bd5dee9_m.jpg


Forgot to mention that they did fix the rear frame/slide fit by the hammer, where the slide poked out about a millimeter from the frame.

[Rick F]

deleted

[Rick F]

I spoke to SA, who said they are looking into getting me a refund for the pistol. To be honest, I'd rather have a new one that isn't messed up. At this point, with the QC issues they are having, I suppose I'm better off cutting my losses. Before sending it back, I did ask the customer service person to just open the box and look at it before it shipped, but they admittedly didn't. They could've fixed it before I even knew by quickly glancing at it.

[scottl]

Some larger, better detailed pics would help show off what you not happy with.But going by what you've got here it looks like finish was rubbed during assembly or take down.

[Rick F]

Some larger, better detailed pics would help show off what you not happy with.But going by what you've got here it looks like finish was rubbed during assembly or take down.


Hi Scott. thanks for the reply. I enlarged the picture to show the flaws on the outside. Basically the one on the left is the one that really bothers me. Makes me worry that if it went out with such an obvious mistake, what else is wrong?






http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8238/8509556223_751456041a_b.jpg

[ShipWreck]

Sorry to hear you are having all these problems. I previously owned one and it was a fantastic gun!

[Rick F]

Thanks Shipwreck. For the past few days, Springfield has been ignoring my questions, so I don't know what's going on.

I have a question for you guys. My friend also told me they didn't even bother finishing the barrel bushing, as the edges were very sharp enough to shave with. Is that normal for a SA 1911? Due to my lack of experience with 1911s, I just thought that's how SA does it. My Kimber, and a few others I looked at locally the other day are not like that.

UPDATE

ANYWAY, I just called them. They haven't had time to look at it yet, so there are no answers on the "what went wrong front." They said all of their inventory is designated to retailers at the moment, so it will likely be a few months until they are to replace it. They will most likely be able to issue me a refund (not sure if tax and NICS will be refunded too) by the end of next week, but this is not confirmed yet.

[RickB]

I would not own a repainted car (unless it's a custom hotrod) as the finish is never as good as the original OEM. Should I be concerned with that here?


Until a car has been sold for the first time, it's a new car. Cars are damaged in the dealer's parking lots all the time, they have the cars repaired and sell them as new, with no requirement that they reveal the damage.
Some new-gun warranties specifically do not cover cosmetics, and if Springfield determines that worn paint is only a cosmetic issue, they may not want to fix it.
That said, they do have top-notch customer service, so I'd expect them to do the repair so the slide and frame don't rub.

[Rick F]

Hi Rick,

It was more than just cosmetic. The wear of the finish was indicative of the fact that the frame wasn't machined right, so it was re-machined, and the frame/slide were re-fit.

They "repaired" it, and sent it back like the pictures above (page 3). I know SA is a sacred cow, but I wouldn't call that top not customer service when they return it like they did. Then again, I had a good example with SIG, whom many have complain about.

[RickB]

Those last pics show what definitely appears to be damage? Even if it's not rubbing anymore, those little dings around the front of the frame don't look like anything that should be on a freshly repaired frame.

[Rick F]

Those last pics show what definitely appears to be damage? Even if it's not rubbing anymore, those little dings around the front of the frame don't look like anything that should be on a freshly repaired frame.

Indeed. That's why I'm getting frustrated. I just can't believe that they would send it to me in that condition, knowing QC screwed up in the first place. I would've made sure everything is perfect before sending it back if I was them. Then, they can't be bothered to send me a new gun, because they have more important customers, etc. I'm beginning to take it personally. I guess I am better off with a refund, granted they pay back the tax. I'm mad I wasted a people's republic of NJ pistol permit on this. I'll be waiting a few months for another one now.

Anyway, thanks for looking and providing feedback.

[HKFan9]

The edges on SA factory guns on smaller parts are pretty well known to be a little on the sharp side. In all fairness these are standard production guns, not semi custom or custom 1911's. The slide release on my SA Mil-Spec back in the day was like a razor. I took a patch and a little flitz polish and smoothed it out in 2 minutes and was not concerned with it.

I understand your frustrated but the edges on a barrel bushing would be the least on my worries on a standard production 1911... not trying to be snark either. Unfortunately we don't live in a day where every gun is hand fitted, and raw materials are a lot more expensive, so corners ARE cut to keep the consumers happy. I can refer you to a hand built Wilson Combat 1911 with a rail or any other custom shop build that would cost 3-4x as much as your SA.

It sucks you got a lemon, I can relate on that, but least they are willing to refund you the $$ since they cannot keep up with current demand. That is a lot more than most other gun mfg's would even do.

I know you probably still aren't happy with the outcome, but I think they are trying their best for you. Though I can't comment on what happened when it was in for repair, I have never see a gun come back from SA to my shop with anything wrong with it.

[Rick F]

Hi HKFAN9. Indeed the sharpness of the barrel bushing is the least of my worries. I was just asking if that is normal. My 1911-expert friend looked it over, and just started rattling off a bunch of corners they cut putting it back together. To be honest, all of the other things he brought up slipped my mind, or I didn't know what he was referencing. He said judging by the lack of care for what he has seen, he expects a lack of care on the inside as well. He brought his most low-end beater pistol, a RIA 1911 for comparison, which he purchased for $300, to use as a minimum benchmark. He said the SA did not pass.

My concern is with the damage on the frame, and the groove running down it. SA told me that groove is normal, and happens during assembly and when the barrel moves when fired. Others with this same gun told me that is BS.

Should I let them try to fix this gun one more time? Or has this become unsalvageable?

[HKFan9]

To speak honestly, to me... it seems mostly cosmetic. I work in a gun smith shop (I'm a paperwork jockey not one of the smiths.) I see a lot of stupid careless mistakes like this daily (not referring to you.) Sadly SA is usually one of the best companies I deal with for repairs and warranty work.

To me.. this looks like in the rush of things.. whoever worked on your gun.. was hurrying and carelessly dinged the front of your frame when reassembling it. The scuff mark.. I do see a lot on certain guns with these "Armory Kote" or other Cerakote like finishes. Usually what I see is the gun was fitted properly with bare metal and once the finish is applied the tolerances tighten up and wear some. With out seeing it in person... even with your high res photos I cannot tell if this is your problem or not.

I know its frustrating, specially after dropping the amount of cash you did on it. My champion operator is one of my favorite 1911's. I would say send it back with detailed notes and calmly explain you find it unacceptable and would like it repaired. Yelling at CS reps... though can make you feel great for a moment, generally doesn't help any matters.:rolleyes:

SA generally is a good company, and even though it seems they might have dropped the ball for you on this one, I would see what they are willing to do. If you personally can't trust this gun again, and they offer you the refund, I would take it, and buy something else on your wish list. It is very rare I see a MFG offer a cash refund on a firearm, so I think they are trying to do what they can to please you.

[Rick F]

Hi HKFAN9,

SA has stopped answering my emails. I took a kind, professional tone, but nonetheless, I suppose they don't have the time to assist with my situation. I'm not sure if they are sending me a refund, or a new pistol, or anything at all for that matter. Does anyone have a supervisor contact?

[Rick F]

SA did not have any MC Operators available, and they don't have time to check one over before sending it out, so they sent me a refund for the price I paid, plus tax & NICS. I suppose this is the best case scenario.

On a side note-
I found a SIG P229 classic .22 online. I asked the retailer if it had the new style E2 grips. They emailed me back stating they do indeed. While I was waiting for their response, I called SIG and asked which models come with the new E2 grips. The CS rep I spoke with said they all match the picture in their 2013 PDF catalogue if the manufacture date is 1/1/13 or after. I ordered the pistol and had it shipped. It arrived at my FFL, and as my luck would have it, they had the old style grips. I called SIG to see if all new models had the upgraded manspring, trigger bar, and de-cocker necessary to fit the new grips. I wanted to know if I needed to order them as well. They said it is likely not to if it had the old grips, and they decided to send me the full replacement kit for free to ship out with the caliber x-change kit I ordered. Needless to say, I'm glad I purchased another pistol from a manufacturer I can rely on.

[ShipWreck]

Good to hear that you are getting a refund. Wow.

[Venom1956]

any news where I can buy this 'blem' gun? :confused:;)

[Will Beararms]

Yes I think there was some poor machine work on that pistol but every 1911 I have ever owned had rub marks on one area or another. Every Sig I have owned had wear marks from the slide in the aluminum frame rails. All my Glocks either pig nose or the RSA scratches the frame near the locking block.

[ragwd]

Rick , you indeed have had a dark cloud over your experience with Springfield. Sorry, my loaded model is flawless in appearance and function. wishng you better luck with your next purchase. Also I certainly hope that all the Kimber kickers have read this thread, see it happens to all of us .

[Rick F]

I would like to thank everyone for your comments, suggestions, and kind words.