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summerman
November 25, 2012, 07:58 PM
Deer hunting regulations just changed from shotgun to rifle here. My sabot shotgun scope was off so I tried an old 50-60 year old Marlin (four digit serial number) 30-30 rifle. I loved it. It had open sights and dropped a doe dead at 75 yards. Problem is it is old, not tapped for scope and don't want to change it. I looked at 3 Marlins and all had obvious production issues in my mind.. rough spots, rough action, poor black spray painted looking finish etc... I thought a lever in 30-30 would be great with a Leopold 2-7 vary2. I want to buy a great one and keep it.

My 1187 shot sabots at 1900 fps and 30-30 is about 2300 or so.
I looked at Browning, and a bunch of other companies and only Marlin, Savage, Winchester, Mossberg make 30-30. I really wanted a Browning BLR (lever) or even and X bolt in 30-30 as I really want to limit distance and power due to area hunting in. To make a long story short I want the least powerful, sufficient deer rifle to put a scope on with out worrying about hitting a barn 5 miles away. I want it light, reliable and with low recoil..

What would be the best BLR to get? 243, 308? Any ideas would be great, Thanks.

Creeper
November 25, 2012, 08:06 PM
Have you looked at Henry Repeating Arms .30-30s (http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-3030.cfm)? They are very well made, quite popular with lever gun aficionados... and fit your requirements exactly.

jmr40
November 25, 2012, 08:07 PM
Nothing wrong with a BLR if you want one. You'll get the most gun for the dollar right now with a bolt gun. Many budget bolt guns right now are about 1/2 the cost of a BLR, and you'll get a top end bolt rifle for about the same price as the BLR.

A bolt gun is much lighter, more reliable, and usually more accurate. And with no hammer would be safer in theory. Most lever gun accidents happen when shooters try to lower a hammer and it slips off their thumb, or when unloading.

Good calibers would be 243, 260, 7-08, or 308. Any of those will recoil very similar to, or less than your old 30-30. A 260 or 7-08 would be about perfect, but 243 and 308 ammo are easier to find and usually cheaper.

Brian Pfleuger
November 25, 2012, 08:12 PM
You're worrying a lot about nothing, IMO. Your bullet will hit the ground and even if it "bounces" it will be destabilized and make a crash landing in short order. In all likelihood, it'll stay in the ground more often than not.

Plus, there's not a great deal of lethality difference between, say, a 223, 243 and 7mm-08, as examples.

Many areas of the country have had rifle hunting for decades and accident rates are no higher, and in fact often lower, than shotgun areas.

NY has slowly been transitioning from all shotguns in the southern zone to now nearly all rifle, with just a few "hold out" counties. The accident rates have not increased.

If you practice safe shooting, be sure of your target and what is beyond, you have nothing to worry about.

Pick a good deer cartridge and don't worry about it. Safety is in your hands, literally, not in the cartridge you select.

(I recommend 243, 25-06 or 7mm-08)

Chet Punisher
November 25, 2012, 08:24 PM
Option 1: Buy a used Marlin 30-30 that was made before the take over. They are a dime a dozen. Better yet, find a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington. Nothing wrong with a used rifle.

Option 2: Buy a bolt action in your favorite maker in .308 or 30-06... Most of your shots are probably going to be towards woods or something. Don't worry too much about the barn 5 miles away...

Option 3: Use what you have. It has worked so far...

MarkCO
November 25, 2012, 08:44 PM
Be sure of your target and beyond...

Based on the hunting regs, there are a lot of good options besides the 30-30. If you have an AR, you could get a .450 Bushmaster Upper. :D There are several other really good whitetail suitable cartridges that can be put on an AR upper as well.

If you really want a lever, .338 Marlin, .44 Mag, .45 Colt and .444 Marlin are all proven calibers with shorter range cartridges than a .308 on up.

If you are set on the BLR, then .308 would be a good choice.

alex0535
November 25, 2012, 08:55 PM
We have a Marlin 336 in .30-30, initially the action was a little stiff so I took it completely apart, cleaned, and polished some parts it is very smooth.

It is tapped for scope mounts, I think it would be good to put a rail and a red dot on it.

We also have a much older Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. Did the same thing to it. But it has killed deer for 3 generations at this point. Regarded highly for its potential for thick woods hunting, a 200 grain .35 will shoot through some thick stuff and keep on going. I don't know if its tapped for a scope but I know I hit the deer I killed with it with a perfect shot using iron sights so I don't plan to worry about putting a scope on it.

Both are very capable of taking whitetail with appropriate bullets. I suggest a Marlin 336 in .30-30 or .35 Remington.

SteelChickenShooter
November 25, 2012, 08:58 PM
I'll second the Henry 30-30. I've had the Marlin in both blued and stainless.With and without scopes. But that Henry really stands out! I've sold off the two 30-30 Marlins in favor of a Marlin stainless 45-70. That Henry 30-30 is a keeper.

jimbob86
November 25, 2012, 09:18 PM
Daughter has a Marlin 30A in 30/30 ..... killed two deer with it two weeks ago.

She has a forward mounted 2X Burris Pistol scope on it ...works really well.

I can not for the life of me understand why anyone would put a high magnification scope on a 30/30 ...... If you need anything greater than 4x to see your target, then it is probably too far away to be takin' pokes at with the thuddy-thuddy.

chris in va
November 25, 2012, 10:07 PM
Something in 44 mag or a x39 bolt gun.

mete
November 25, 2012, 10:10 PM
Of the newer cartridges for Adirondack or Catskill Mtn hunting the 7mm-08 is probably the best .
If you want to use a real cartridge get a 45-70 !! [the 300 gr bullets are mild in recoil .] :D

taylorce1
November 25, 2012, 10:18 PM
Man there are a lot of great .30-30's out there, just find an old Marlin 336 if you want a scope or the more expensive Savage 99. If you would really like a bolt action .30-30 you'll have to find an old Remington 788 or Savage 340 (marketed as Stevens and Springfield as well). Savage made a pump but I can't remember the model of it at the moment. H&R/NEF, T/C, and Rossi all offer single shot break action .30-30's as well. As far as the BLR goes, .243 or .308 would be excellent choices for deer.

Sarge
November 25, 2012, 10:18 PM
If you want an 30-30 you might as well find a used, later-production 336 that is already drilled for mounts. Get the model with the cross-bolt safety, if that's your bag.They are plentiful and usually pretty cheap.

summerman
November 25, 2012, 11:37 PM
Thanks for the replies. After lugging the 1187 with scope the Marlin felt great. Nice not to have a scope in some ways. I looked at my Marlin which was given to me and not ever fired by me until this week while sighting in is a model 1936 serial number7xxx. From what I see it was the first run on 1936 and made 1936 to 1940. I don't want to tap it for scope. I think I will continue to look for a BLR and nice 30-30 and get the first one I like. A 2-7 scope or even a 1-4 would be great for where I hunt. I was delighted by its handling. I really have only 12 gauge experience with 3 magnums, along with some limited pistol, and 22 rifle experience to compare. I have shot my friends 30-06 and that gets old at the range fast. Any more ideas I would greatly appreciate. Thanks again.

Tim R
November 26, 2012, 05:58 AM
My Marlin 336 came drilled and tapped. In fact when I got it from my FIL after he passed he had a scope mounted on it. I found using Remington green box 150 gr 30-30 ammo, I could put the whole 20 rounds in a group about the size of a quarter at 100 yards. Good enough for hunting. Like already brought up used 336's are a dime a dozen. I've seen the BLR's get a little sticky to operate after firing a 308. Should br ok in 30-30 I would think.

g.willikers
November 26, 2012, 08:26 AM
As has been said, safety is your department, not the gun's.
If you're looking for an excuse to buy another gun, you can bet we're all for it, what ever the make and caliber.
I'd vote for the slower, bigger bullet calibers, both for their effectiveness and limited range, though.

Baba Louie
November 26, 2012, 08:59 AM
I can not for the life of me understand why anyone would put a high magnification scope on a 30/30 Ahem... older eyes can use all the help they can get in making sure that deer has antlers or not depending on tag in hand, time of day and brush around said ungulate.

Even tho scopes on lever actions do look off putting, given the above, they can be a blessing at times. For older eyes that is. But I hear ya. :D

YMMV

Dr. A
November 26, 2012, 10:20 AM
I have several Marlins' and will second the looking for a good used one probably older than 2009. I do see the newer production guns, and some have improved quite a bit. Most don't realize that even when you bought new prior to the 2009 takeover, they needed breaking in as well. A 30-30 is hard to beat hunting close range, and with success, confidence ensues. I like my BLR, but the trigger on it is pretty bad, and it gets hunted very seldom anymore. I'll be going out with my son (shoots a 243 Marlin), and I'll have a 308MXLR and a 45 colt, both in Marlin. Nothing else can take their place.:D

jimbob86
November 26, 2012, 10:25 AM
Baba- If you wear bi-focals, then a conventionally mounted scope would cause prolems in that you'd need to have the "near focus" part in the top 1/2 of the lens, no?

With a pistol scope, the ocular lens is out there 12-16 inches .... I have never worn bifocals, but i have seen folks that wear them hold reading material out that far......

2-4X is plenty of help for older eyes to put antlers on a deer at 30/30 ranges. If you need more, than how can you tell the difference between a large dog and a doe back east? :D

As for "I was delighted by its handling" ..... putting a large scope on levergun will really change it's handling, especially if it is mounted on high rings ..... carring the gun "at the balance", the scope bell hits your arm .....

This is her set-up .... we had to raise the comb height 3/8", but now when you bring the gun to your shoulder and your face to the stock with both eyes on the target, the crosshairs just magically appear on the target ..... it's a good enough system that she can hit a running deer, even though the only moving target practice she had was a single season on the Jr. high trap team....

jimbob86
November 26, 2012, 11:04 AM
As for hitting something 5 miles away with a 30/30 ...... keep it below the horizon and you'll be fine. A 150gr 30/30 bullet zeroed for 100 yards drops a bit more than 6 feet at 400 yards and more than 12 feet by 500, by which time it is subsonic and slowing quickly...... you'd have to hold it up at a 30-45 degree angle to get it out of your section, I'd think......

taylorce1
November 26, 2012, 12:27 PM
I can not for the life of me understand why anyone would put a high magnification scope on a 30/30 ...... If you need anything greater than 4x to see your target, then it is probably too far away to be takin' pokes at with the thuddy-thuddy.


Well the 2-7 Leupold has a 33mm objective lense same size as their FXII 4X scope, a lot of fixed 4X scopes have objectives on either side of 33mm. I'd say that the 2-7 is a great choice in scope for the .30-30 Win, my M788 wears a 2-7X35 Nikon Monarch UUC and it isn't a huge scope either. So if the variable has a little more magnification and comes in the same size package or slightly smaller what is there to complain about. You don't have to use 7x in the field but it sure is a lot better than 4x when zeroing the rifle at the range.

WV_gunner
November 26, 2012, 12:38 PM
This year I switched up guns, I went from using a Savage 110 .243 to a Rossi Circuit Judge in .45 Colt/ .410. I haven't got a deer yet but it being compact and light has made hunting much more easy. It's about an hour walk to my spot, didn't have to shoulder it once and it's much easier getting through the woods. It's a world's difference. I do not have a scope on this gun though, the way the gun feels the sights practically line theirselves up. I believe this to be a perfect short range hunting gun. Bigger but slower bullet compared to the smaller and faster rounds. There's a .44 Magnum version if you want the little extra power. For my .45 Colt version, I use Hornady LeveRevolution ammo. And I've put hundreds of rounds through my gun. For .45s I have used coyboy loads, jacketed soft points and ballistic tips. For .410s I've used 7 shot, 4 shot, pdxi, and 000. Never once has it failed to fire or have any problem of any kind. And there's no issue of lead or gun powder getting past the cylinder shield. And those who say there's accuracy issues with the 3 inch cylinder, I have to say you are wrong. These are amazing guns, just don't expect to shoot no more than around 100 yards.

kraigwy
November 26, 2012, 01:34 PM
IF you really want a Browning BLR, then you shouldn't settle for anything less.

A 243 will do every thing you mentioned, super accurate, zero recoil. Ammo found anywhere.

Its one of the most popular deer rounds out there for a reason.

JimDandy
November 26, 2012, 01:45 PM
I would caution going from a Marlin to a Henry or Winchester could give you "feel" issues. The Marlin most likely has a "pistol grip" while the Henry and Winchester will most likely have a straight stock. If you want to stay lever action, stay with the same stock as well. It'll feel more natural.

Big Pard
November 26, 2012, 06:59 PM
I currently own 2 BLRs and I'm looking for another one. I have a 243 and 30-06 and both are shooters. I love how they handle and that you can shoot any bullet type due to the detachable magazine. Since you are looking at one I'd have to say the 308 may be a little more versatile. I don't think you'll regret getting a BLR.....

oneoldsap
November 26, 2012, 07:16 PM
Nothing wrong with a 336 Marlin , but the .35 Rem. is the one to have in my book ! The .35 is a far better cartridge than the 30-30 for short range deer and bear hunting . Remington chambered their 760 Pump in .35 Rem. also and there are a few for sale on auction sites , but they aren't cheap , but probably no more so than a new Marlin .

dayman
November 26, 2012, 07:37 PM
One upside to 30-30 over 35rem is that it's available everywhere from walmart to the gas stations that stock ammo during hunting season, and with the new ballistic tip ammo available, it has all the take down power you need for white tail.

I'd wait until January or so and start looking for a lightly used drilled and tapped 336. Lots of people seem to sell them after hunting season's over and heating season's in full swing, so you can often find them for not a lot of money.
I have a fixed 4power on mine, and it works phenomenally both in the brush and out to 100 yds or so.

Picher
November 27, 2012, 09:50 AM
I've shot deer from 5 yards to 500, standing and often, walking fast, running, etc. The only times I ever felt under-gunned was when I used a shotgun or iron-sighted rifle.

Once, I planned to hunt in tight wooded cover, so had a semi-auto shotgun with slugs and buckshot. We broke out on a powerline and suddenly saw a nice buck walking along the other edge, about 150 yards away. The shotgun didn't have sights, just a bead, but I think it's really too far to shoot at a moving deer with a slug. Some will argue, but I decided to not shoot.

Another time, I was hunting with a Marlin 336, .35 Rem and had the same situation, but the range was closer to 200 yards. Didn't shoot again.

Since then, I've hunted with .243 Win, .30-06, and .270 Win and felt confident that, as the rifle is sighted in, using the rule of 3's, the bullet will hit within 3 inches of the crosshairs of my 3-9X scope from the muzzle to 250 yards with any of the three. Beyond that, the .270 Win, will do the same out to 300 yards with predictable holdover beyond (but only if those distances are known within 25+/- yards).

I personally feel confident in my ability to shoot well into the deer's kill zone offhand to at least 200 yards, but don't want to worry about holdover of, say, a .30-30 or .35 Rem at distances beyond 100 yards. The .243 Win is the minimum cartridge that gives me that needed ballistic confidence. I use 80 grain Hornady GMX handloads that don't lose more than 3 grains of weight on impact, yet fully expand and penetrate deeply. Factory 100 grain bullets are the norm for most hunters and they hit very hard.

Husqvarna
November 27, 2012, 10:06 AM
if distances aren't a factor how about just a reddot?

oneoldsap
November 27, 2012, 04:09 PM
Magnification can come in pretty handy , especially where there are antler restrictions ! Been there done that .

Picher
November 28, 2012, 08:13 AM
I've owned a few lever-action rifles and hunted with many folks who've had them. They're fast for follow-up shots, but most have combs that are too low to align the eye with a scope or red-dot, unless a cheek pad is added.

Almost all lever rifles must be cocked before firing and de-cocked after loading. I've seen a few accidental dischages when the user attempted to de-cock with gloves on. I've also worked on the older models that have had the half-cock notch broken off when the hammer was inadvertantly dropped on it. Another problem with half-cock notches is that it's possible for the hammer to rest on top of the notch instead of seated properly. I had an accidental discharge using a flat-top Ruger S.A. handgun due to that problem.

There are other problems associated with external-hammer rifles, including getting tree spills, dirt, water, and ice buildup on them or in their openings. In cold November weather in Maine, I've found the exposed metal parts very cold, even with gloves on.

As a gunsmith, I've cleaned many Winchester 94s, Marlin 336s and other lever guns and found that many owners never take them apart to clean them. Grit and congealed oil eventually causes parts to wear out or become very difficult to operate.

The Browning lever-action has few of the problems mentioned above, but the trigger pull is usually not as crisp as that of a bolt-action, and they're usually not as accurate, due to the method of fastening the forend to the barrel. That said, they're a fine, modern lever action that will often shoot better than 2 inch groups at 100 yards, depending on how the forend is rested or held. The mechanism is relatively easy to clean and the safety mechanism is very good.

If you decide on a BLR, the .308 cartridge is one of the best for woods hunting out to 200 yards, or so.

summerman
November 28, 2012, 08:46 AM
There was a stainless marlin 30 30 for $470. and two new $60 and $650 for the "big Loop' one. I brought my glasses and light and looked at them hoping I would love the stainless with compostit stock. The staniless had a great stock but was uneven where it met the receiver. The large screw holding it to the stock was 1/8 inch above level while on the other two they were flush or below level with the metal. The front hood on 2 were very loose. One had lots of machine circles or lines where barrel was attached into receiver. One had the sight screws flush with inside of chamber. the other two the seemed to barely make it in. The finish on the actual metal of the stainless was nice and smooth outside and very rough in chamber. Actions were from rough to quite good. There seemed to be no two close to each other. I was amazed that the screws for the scope on top of the receiver go all the way into the inside of the chamber. Whey wouldn't the make a thicker back strap so you don't have to have that? I thought it was a mistake until I saw it on all 3. Do other guns tapped for scopes have the scope mounting holes on top going through to the inside of the chamber? I was hoping to like the stainless but just couldn't pull the trigger due to the above as well as some signs that the gun was tinkered with. (scratch marks on and around screws, pins having nicks on them, etc.) maybe I'm too picky but when I held a browning x bolt the other day, everything looked perfect. I really want to hold a BLR in my hands but they are scarce. I like my 1936 better than any I've seen so far so will continue to look for an older Marlin used. Meanwhile season is getting long in tooth.. Still having fun looking, learning and yearning. Thanks for advice guys and maybe gals too if your there.

summerman
November 30, 2012, 12:29 PM
Well, I couldn't stand it any longer.. so after calling 15 places in central NY I found a place 3 hours away, White tail sports in Olean, NY. they had 4 BLRs.

a blue 243, blue 30-06, and both stainless and blue in 308. I looked at their new Marlin and it looked ok, much better than any I mentioned above. They also had a Henry 30-30. It was much better yet. (I mean the apparent quality when looking at it in the store was nice. Had a nice peep site too.) The Henry finish was in the middle of the Marlin and the Browning.

I got the Stainless Browning 308. It looked immaculate, fit and finish, action.. When you look in the chamber it looks perfect. No rouch machining marks, nothing but smooth, shiny clean surfaces, smooth action. It's quality shows. It was $869.. Henry was $600, and marlin was $450. $260 more and I had the best, so I did it.


Even though I wanted a 30-30, I just knew I wouldn't regret the Browning. I may eventually get a nice old used Marlin or Henry if I see a deal, but the Browning was what I expected. The BLR is a bit thicker, and not the same nice narrow light feel as the Marlin, but it weighs the same and the action appears to be so much better. Hopefully, it will shoot ok. Still ahve to get scope, rings etc.

I see that you can get scope rings that attach directly to gun not needing a base for the BLR. I'm wondering if anybody has done that? I was warned that if you don't use a weaver scope you are limited in where the rings go and so are limited on where the scope goes as far as position back and forth and thus eye relief could be an issue. Anybody scope a BLR without a base and just rings?

Thanks again, I used alot of the above posts in making my decision.

Lastly, having still wondering if my infatuation with a lever gun was just that, an infatuation, I looked at a tika t3 lite. I almost went with that but they didn't have a 308 or 7mm 08, only 3006. It is a very smooth nice gun. It maybe be nicer than the browning a bolt, xbolt. It has a great, solid ring set up that other guns should use IMHO. No 308 at store so I passed. I would not think twice witha browning x bolt or tika or sako. I'm not as familliar with remington so can't comment on them. I'm a sort of an anal nut when buying guns and Browning and Tika leave me with nothing to gripe about.

oneoldsap
November 30, 2012, 01:12 PM
I believe Talley has the mounts you want ! You didn't say what caliber you chose , but whatever it is , it's better than a 30-30 Win. . The straight comb stock of the BLR wants the scope mounted low , and that's where the hammer , or getting to it , becomes an issue . I have two lever guns , and neither wears a scope !

giaquir
November 30, 2012, 02:07 PM
Just point a 270 at a deer and it'll fall over dead.
Truth!

m&p45acp10+1
November 30, 2012, 04:38 PM
For buying a 30-30 two words come to mind.

Pawn Shop

Chances are you will not have to go to more than one or two to find a decent used rifle at a fair price. Not bargain basement price, but fair. Chances are it will probably have a scope mounted on it already. If you do not like the scope on it then change it for one you do like.

PatientWolf
November 30, 2012, 09:01 PM
Summerman - you will love the SS BLR in .308. I love the way they balance, jump into position and shoot.

BerdanSS
November 30, 2012, 09:29 PM
I found an older 336 in 30-30 with smooth uncheckered stocks, that to the untrained eye looked kinda rough sitting in the back room of a LGS. $214.00 later out the door price with tax, I got it home and cleaned it up to reveal BEAUTIFULLY figured walnut and deep rich bluing, on a rife that from what I could tell...had never been fired. Deadly accurate, and came tapped for a scope mount. It's my favorite rifle that I've ever owned. Just wish I could hunt with it here:(

Buzzard Bait
December 2, 2012, 10:22 AM
How safe the rifle is rests between your ears. This thread is rolling along toward the 30-30 but the 243 is also a very good light deer rifle.
bb

Tom Matiska
December 2, 2012, 11:28 AM
Summerman, before the proud old Marlin becomes a safe queen, check out the side mounts and rings on pages 23 and 24 of the Williams catalog.

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/pdf/2012_Catalog.pdf

Confirm with Willliams if their SM94 works on your early Marlin without drilling. HCO rings put the scope over the bore, but clear view of sights underneath. SM71 if you have rear peep.

Big Pard
December 2, 2012, 08:16 PM
I have Leupold base and rings on both BLRs and love it. I also have Warne bases and rings on a couple of my BAR's and they work very well. Since you have a short action BLR, most any base/ring combo will give you enough eye relief. I prefer mounts made of steel instead of aluminum but that's just my opinion.