View Full Version : .300 Win Mag question
SC4006
November 5, 2012, 01:03 PM
For the longest time I've been interested in the .300 winchester magnum cartridge, probably mostly because I'm pretty young and have the idea that the bigger the cartridge the more fun and interesting it is. Of course I love my .22 rifle, but there's just something I like about the bigger cartridges. Ive also recently been thinking about hunting, and I'm sure the .300 is more than capable of anything in north america. So here is my question, would it be worth it to buy a .300 win mag rifle to use for well... pretty much everything as a "do-it-all" cartridge? I'd be using whatever rifle in .300 win I get, to use for possibly long range target shooting, hunting of deer size or bigger animals, occasional plinking around, and to satisfy my needs for a ridiculously big magnum rifle lol. I would consider maybe a .308 or 30-06, but theres just not the same wow factor in those calibers. Im young and still learning about firearms, so im not sure if it's worth it to buy a big rifle for the reason I want one...
Houndog
November 5, 2012, 02:43 PM
I'm not a hunter, so I won't give you any advice on that front. But I do own a 300 win mag rifle, so I can give you some general advice.
First, this ammo is expensive. If you've been shooting nothing but .22 you're in for some serious sticker shock. So this is not the best ammo for plinking. Honestly, I think you'd be better served with .308 of 30-06, both of which will easily get you out to 400 yards and can be had more cheaply.
Second, if you've shot nothing but .22 it's going to take some time for you to adjust to the recoil of 300 win mag. I shoot this ammo out of an AR30 with a muzzle brake, so recoil isn't too bad, but this is a very heavy gun. It's not something you could use for hunting, or really even shoot offhand. I have to believe shooting this ammo out of a relatively light rifle without a muzzle brake is going to have some serious recoil. Yes, you can get used to anything - but it's not a great choice for someone used to a .22
Third, 300 win mag is a barrel burner. Are you ready to replace the barrel after 1500 rounds? Again, this is not a big issue for me because I own a bunch of guns, so the AR30 doesn't get a lot of use. But this is not a great second gun.
Honestly, I think you'd be a lot happier with something in .308, even if it doesn't have the wow factor of 300 win mag. In fact, I wouldn't even dismiss something in .223. Ammo is cheaper. Recoil is pretty light. A 68 grain or larger bullet will get you out to 600 yards (at least if you're shooting paper). Although it may not be the best hunting round, at least for large game.
Finally, if you really want to go big bore there are a bunch of other options which I think might be more fun. If you want something in an AR platform there's .458 Socom or 50 Beowolf. Big kick. A lot of foot pounds down range. Certainly good for hunting if you don't need to go more than 150 out.
Or you can go whole hog and just get a .50 bmg. Of course, if you go this route, everything is expensive. The guns. The ammo. The scopes. The rings and mounts. But shooting one will definitely put a smile on yourself. And it will take out a mastadon at 500 yards.:)
jmr40
November 5, 2012, 03:28 PM
I'm sure the .300 is more than capable of anything in north america.
So is a 30-06 or 308, you just have to get a little closer
I'd advise working up to the 300. A 308 will do anything at 400 yards that a 30-06 will do at 500 yards and a 300 will do the same at 600 yards. Are you good enough to take advantage of the 300's capabilities. A 308 is capable of doing more than most shooters can take advantage of.
I'm not opposed to someone owning a 300 mag, have one myself, but it is not a good choice for a new shooter for many reasons. You'll shoot a 308 a lot more because you'll find it more enjoyable and more affordable. After you master a smaller cartrdge you may find you don't really need a bigger one.
SC4006
November 5, 2012, 03:31 PM
Thanks for the replies, i'll certainly think about all that both of you had to say about the .300 win mag. As far as rifles, right now a .22 is all I have, but I've shot quite a bit of 7.62x54R out of a mosin, and 30-06 out of my friend's mossberg 100 ATR rifle. So pretty much so far 30-06 is the biggest rifle round I've shot, which I didn't think was really all that bad, but idk how it stacks up against a .300 in a similar weight rifle.
Eppie
November 5, 2012, 03:42 PM
I think Houndog gave you some very good advice. Anything else is pretty redundant.
Erno86
November 5, 2012, 04:10 PM
Since you are interested in long range target shooting, including hunting of all the North American game animals ---hands down ---the 300 Win Mag... is the way to go. The 300 Win Mag ammo, is alot cheaper than the 338 Lapua, has a longer range than 308 or 30-06, can be bought on storeshelves all over the world and reduced handloads are possible. Besides accuracy...the 300 Win Mag, is the most preferred cartridge for U.S. government snipers --- because of low recoil and low rifle weights.
Eppie
November 5, 2012, 05:14 PM
the 300 Win Mag, is the most preferred cartridge for U.S. government snipers
I believe you're way off base on this one. I've read that the Army was experimenting with 300 win mag in A'stan. But I've not read that it actually has gone mainstream.
From everything I read now days they use recon/sniper teams as spotters/illuminators for air power, predators, cavalry, etc... Not really doing a whole lot of one bullet kind of stuff. Just the occasional target of opportunity.
Bart B.
November 5, 2012, 05:26 PM
Eppie, recent tests with several cartridges by top level shooters evaluating rifles and cartridges for military sniper use prooved the .300 Win. Mag. enabled more first shot hits at all ranges up through 1500 yards. It was also the only one that met all the Army's accuracy requirements. But the Army was marketeered and snookered into believing the .338 Lapua Mag was the better round, so they went with it.
jmr40
November 5, 2012, 05:45 PM
The army experimented with the 338 Lapua, but decided on the 300 WM.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/09/20/army-upgrades-m24-sniper-system-to-300-winmag-army-snipers-smile-wince/
The 338 offers slightly better perfromance, but lots of negatives. The Army already had 308 rifles built on long action Remington 700's that could be converted much cheaper than buying a new system.
Right now there is a mix of both 308 and 300 WM rifles. Rifles are gradually being converted to 300 WM and put into service. I could see keeping some of both. The 308 is actually a very good choice in situations where extreme precision is required at more moderate ranges, 200 yards or so. That is why it is still prefered by LE snipers. The 300 offers a huge advantage at 1,000 yards +.
but idk how it stacks up against a .300 in a similar weight rifle.
Using this website
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
From a 7.5 lb rifle
300 WM 180 @3100 fps 33 ft lbs recoil
30-06 180@ 2800 fps 22.5 ft lbs recoil
308 165 @2760 fps 17.2 ft lbs recoil
338 Lapua 250 @2880 56 ft lbs recoil
A 7.5 lb 338 isn't a realistic weight, nor is a 300 win mag
From a 10 lb rifle
338 Lapua 42 ft lbs recoil
300 WM 25 ft lbs recoil
Of course most 308 sniper rifles are going to be 10 lbs +. I just happend to already have that data from a 7.5 lb hunting rifle.
Eppie
November 5, 2012, 06:02 PM
I stand corrected. The even gave the new rifles NP3 coating. Boy, that's way cool stuff.
Houndog
November 5, 2012, 06:56 PM
But I think your right that your right to say Erno is off base when he characterizes the 300 Win Mag as a "low recoil" rifle. Info on recoil another member posted is telling. A rifle with nearly twice the recoil of a .308 is not soft shooting in my book.:)
jmr40
November 5, 2012, 07:04 PM
Compared to the 338 Lapua it is light recoiling. I think that was a big part of the reasoning behind choosing it over a 338.
I still think the OP would be better off with a 308. By the time he masters it he will know if he is ready to move up to a bigger gun. If you have to ask, you probably aren't ready for the bigger gun.
SC4006
November 5, 2012, 08:35 PM
Thanks for all of the input from everybody, very interesting stuff. I think for now I am convinced enough to purchase a .308 rifle and practice with it for awhile. My local gun shop has a ton of mil surplus FMJ 7.62x51 ammo that I can use for target shooting, and of course .308 SP ammo for hunting is just about everywhere.
taylorce1
November 5, 2012, 09:04 PM
A 7.5 lb 338 isn't a realistic weight, nor is a 300 win mag
Not in the .338 Lapua it isn't, but you can get both a .300 and .338 Win Mag in a 6lb 13oz Kimber Montana. Add a set of aluminum Talley LW mounts and a Leupold UL 3-9X33 and your only an ounce or two over 7.5 lbs and right at 8 lbs loaded with a sling. If you go with a custom rifle by NULA your looking at a bare bones rifle right at 5.75 lbs magnum rifle in the standard length magnums and a 7.5 lbs up to .416 Rigby sized cartridges. All I can say is OUCH! :eek:
Hell they don't sound too pleasant to shoot in a .308 at those weights. ;)
David R. Svatos
November 5, 2012, 10:24 PM
I had a 300 win mag for a few years ended up selling it and getting a 300wsm. the big 300 was heavy, and hunting you carry them waaaay more than you shoot them. the ammo is expensive unless you reload, and unless your not recoil sensitive it will wallop you pretty good! It is a good long range elk gun but honestly I've taken more elk and deer with my 308 than all my other rifles combined. I've never taken anything beyond 400 yds. but unless you practice a lot you shouldn't be shooting at those ranges. at more modest ranges the wsm has less recoil, higher velocity and energy with better trajectory it is a short action which is lighter and shorter ( easier to move with in the brush) and the ammo prices are a little better. the 308 will however take care of everything in the lower 48 except Griz if you put the bullet where it's supposed to go and it is one of the most inherently accurate cartridges there is! I'm sure I've swatted the proverbial hornets nest with my 2 cents worth so i'll sign off for now
warbirdlover
November 5, 2012, 11:54 PM
I used my .300 Win Mag for "everything" in the last 20 years up until last year. If you're recoil sensitive get one with a muzzle brake. Otherwise they ARE fun to shoot and ammo is not all that expensive. I can get a cheap box of .270 Win ammo for $18 and a cheap (but good) box of Rem CoreLoks in .300 Win Mag for $25.
Fishon63
November 6, 2012, 11:25 AM
I've been hunting off and on for many years and have been using my Remington BDL 700 30-06 with great success. However for the past two years I've been hunting in Montana for Whities and Mulies. My brother shoots a Ruguer M77 300 Win Mag and he loves it. I am considering buying one or getthing the T3 Tikka 300 Win Mag. I was wondering if anyone out there has shot both and can give a comparison. PS. at 110 yards my brother this year put a bullet through the heart of one dear and the bullet went through the neck and out again of the deer behind it. Both were doe whities.
Neither deer moved beyon being knocked to the ground.
taylorce1
November 6, 2012, 02:38 PM
I've been hunting off and on for many years and have been using my Remington BDL 700 30-06 with great success. However for the past two years I've been hunting in Montana for Whities and Mulies. My brother shoots a Ruguer M77 300 Win Mag and he loves it. I am considering buying one or getthing the T3 Tikka 300 Win Mag. I was wondering if anyone out there has shot both and can give a comparison. PS. at 110 yards my brother this year put a bullet through the heart of one dear and the bullet went through the neck and out again of the deer behind it. Both were doe whities.
Neither deer moved beyon being knocked to the ground.
I've never shot a Tikka or M77 in the .300 Win Mag. I can tell you this I'd rather carry the Tikka and shoot the Ruger. The Tikka is light and the Ruger isn't it, but even in the standard chamberings the Ruger is more pleasnt to shoot.
As far as your brother's amazing shot with his .300 Win Mag, the .30-06 you carry would have probably done the same thing. At 110 yards both still have a lot of retained energy to get full penetration on any average sized deer. IMO taking down the second deer was nothing more than a lucky shot, and one that I would have to report to a game warden if done in Colorado.
Fishon63
November 6, 2012, 03:39 PM
Thanks for your input, lucky for my brother he still has one deer tag to fill after filling 4. He also needs to fill two elk tags but has filled his antelope tags, 1 buck and 1 doe. I would classify hunting in Montana as harvesting most of the time. Yes hitting both deer was lucky, but the point I was making is neither moved after being shot. I killed my three this year with my .06 and all were shot in the ribs through the lungs but did move about 25-50 feet before dropping. It just seemed to me that the 300 Win Mag caused more shock to the animal.
taylorce1
November 6, 2012, 03:58 PM
They didn't move after the shot because damage was done to the central nervous system (CNS), it has nothing to do with the cartridge. I've dumped them with a .243 Win and had some run off after being shot by my .338-06. If you don't take the CNS out most aniamls will run away after being shot. If you take out both lungs like you did then there isn't a whole lot of tracking. The stories I love are the when "I made the perfect broad side shot on a (insert animal), but after several hours and many of miles of tracking I couldn't find anymore blood, and lost the trail." Obviously the perfect shot wasn't made, or else they would have found the animal, they don't go that far with no lungs.
Fishon63
November 6, 2012, 04:10 PM
Now that's good information, thank you.
whiskyrunner
November 6, 2012, 04:20 PM
ive always used a 30/30 for hunting, and a .22 for plinking, 5 years ago i bought a savage.270 for my father, nice gun, accurate as heck, but i dont like the cartrige, last year i lucked(?) into a deal, for $1000 i bought an m1 garand that had been refurbished and a rem 700 sendero in .300 win mag with a vx3 mil dot scope, 30/06 ammo is $16.95 a box and .300 ammo is $44.95. handloaded with a 208 gr berger the .300 is more accurate than i am, but after 20 rounds or so im done. yes there is a significant wow factor with the .300, but it comes at a price, if your gunna by a .300, learn to handload,
Fishon63
November 6, 2012, 04:26 PM
My sons and I plink with .22 as well, much cheaper and lots of fun. Many years ago I loaded my own shotgun shells and stopped when they forced us to use steel shot for waterfowl. I have considered loading my own rifle bullets.
GeauxTide
November 6, 2012, 09:06 PM
The 300 was designed to deliver 180 grain bullets into Big Game at ranges in excess of 300 yards. The platform was designed for hunting and, in order to make the recoil more tolerable, weighed 8.5-9 pounds. If you target shoot it, the barrel won't last very long and you won't consider it fun. The '06 you shot will take care of 98% of your hunting needs and you will be able to shoot targets for <$20 a box. It will be fun.
Savage99
November 6, 2012, 10:57 PM
SC4006,
Guns are the kind of thing we can get, try and then sell as we find out about them and our need for a particular one evolves.
So you can get that 300 magnum for the fun of it.
However they kick like heck and the ammo is more expensive than the regular rounds like the 308 and 30-06.
There are 'managed recoil' factory loads or you can handload them lighter.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm
You can target shoot or hunt with a regular cartridge
I have been doing this for 60 years and have many different guns. Recently I got a well made custom chambered for the .300 Win. Mag so I have been loading for it and shooting it. It kicks a little more than old me likes with full loads.
If you do buy a centerfire rifle get one with a soft recoil pad and wear ear protection.
You might go to a rifle range and see what they are shooting there.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.jpg
sc928porsche
November 6, 2012, 11:08 PM
I've been using the 300WM for 40 years. I love it. You can buy Remington ammo for it at a reasonable price, but reloading is the way to go. You can reload for less than you can buy a box of 06 with a bit to spare.
The 300WM is quite capable of taking any game in NA. and most them at a distance. Trajectory is flat and lends itself to "crosshair" shooting. If sighted in at 200yds, a 100 yd shot at crosshair will be just a little bit high but very well within the clean kill zone. At 300, the same is true except for the impact will be a bit low but still in the kill zone. Most shots through the lung area drops them or they make only a few steps and fall (experience). There is a lot of energy left at 300 to drop very large game.
300WM will also work at 1000yds for playing. It has been used in long range matches with success. The military also used a few as far back as Viet Nam for snipers, although the majority were in 308.
What most people have a problem is with its recoil. It in not unmanageable but is most certainly brisk. Care must be taken in mounting a scope to get proper eye relief and good shooting process (firm sholder socket and cheek weld) or you are liable to get a case of 300itus (scope crease above the eye).
The general trend of today is to use the smaller cartridges. The magnums on here tend to get a bashing (My 243 will do just fine for a lot cheaper, Its a lot more accurate because I dont flinch etc.).
As for barrel burn, You will have to fire more than you can in a lifetime to get it to where it wont perform well for hunting. 1/2 MOA, well, that is another thing altogeter.
The choice is yours young man. I do suggest that you test fire one for a few rounds before purchasing. It may or may not be your cup of tea. Find someone using one at the range and politely ask if you might fire a round or two and tell him that you are contemplating purchasing a rifle in that chambering but wanted to know what it was like before you did. Most people wont have a problem with that and will allow you a few shots. Afterward or before for that matter, offer to pay for the ammo you shoot.
Good luck.
nicknitro71
November 7, 2012, 07:32 AM
It's the only .30 I'd consider with the exception of the .300 RUM. It does need a muzzle brake tho if you really want to take full use of its potential.
On a bolt action, I'd take the .30-06 over the .308 if you really want to stick to a .30 and desire a milder recoil w/out brake.
Fishon63
November 7, 2012, 01:08 PM
All, great comments I appreciate it all. I have a 308, 30.06 and many other guns. I have fired my brothers Ruger 300 WM. The recoil does not bother me much, I'm a pretty big guy. Yes it probably would wear on me while target practicing a couple of boxes but just shooting a few rounds is not a big deal. I can't rememebr ever feeling a recoil when shooting at game regardless of the weapon.
I have narrowed my choices to the T3 Tikka or the Ruger and back to my original question is which is preferred amoung hunters. Until recently I'd never heard of the Tikka. I did go to a gun shop and handle one. I do like that I can lift the bolt and open it with only my thumb.
Price wise they are only about 100 dollars apart.
To sc928Porsche, the 3rd car I ever owned was a 911 while stationed in Darmstadt Germany, way to much fun.
JimPage
November 7, 2012, 02:07 PM
I have been shooting the 308 Norma Magnum (almost identical ballistics as the .300 win mag). It's definitely a gun you want to reload for. I like the 165 gr bullet, boatail-spitzer like bullet. Very accurate gun.
The percieved recoil for me is less than my 30-06 in a sister rifle. I usually take the 308NM whitetail hunting because of its accuracy. Easily gets a .7 inch group at 100 yds. The recoil is more a push than with the other rifles, so I suspect the recoil is spread out over time longer than the 30-06. But I am not a scientist so I can't tell for sure.
The accuracy drops deer in their tracks. I usually take neck shots and the deer takes no more steps. My longest shot on a deer was 425-450 yrds. Bullet went clean through the chest and raised dust behind him. I thought I had shot over him but he ran in a 20 yard radius circle and dropped dead.
I love that rifle and load.
misterE
November 10, 2012, 04:19 PM
Go for it young man. I hunt deer and black bear with a 300wm. It's a Remington 700 sps and it will shoot 3 shot groups of 150 gr Winchester power points at 1 inch all day (got to let the barrel cool awhile between groups). I've tried all kinds of ammo for this rifle and it actually prefers the cheap stuff - about $26 a box.
Don't have any experience with the 2 rifles your looking at, but the rem was a great deal for me. $520
Also I'm of the school of thought that you can take that 300 and download it to 3006, 308, or even 3030. But you can't upload any of those to 300
Colorado308shooter
November 11, 2012, 06:17 PM
I have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308, with the 20" heavy barrel. This rifle is bad ass! I can print 1/2 to one inch groups at 100 yards all day long.
Since my rifle weighs about 9.5 lbs with the bipod and scope, the recoil is nothing, about like shooting a 30/30. No flinch = accuracy! I can put 30 rounds out of this rifle without even blinking, very easy on the shoulder.
The 300 win mag in a standard sporter rifle will have brutal recoil, pretty close to 30 ft lbs. The ammo will cost you double and the barrel life is less than half of the .308. According to recoil calculators that I have used, my .308 has about 14 ft lbs or recoil.
I reload 168 grain HPBT's for about 45 cents/round.
My vote......308 Winchester!
45YearsShooting
November 11, 2012, 06:52 PM
I own the Tikka T3 in 300 Win Mag and use it to hunt elk. I sold a heavy 300 Weatherby and bought this 6.5 lb rifle instead. It was a good move. I love the light weight. You cannot find another rifle in that caliber that weighs the same or less for anything close to the price of a Tikka.
It's a gun to carry a lot and shoot a little. Of course, that's what most people typically do with an elk rifle.
I don't notice the recoil when shooting at an elk. I DO notice the recoil when shooting off a bench. Not my favorite thing to do, so I only do it to check zero each year. However, I don't notice the Tikka kicking any more than the heavier 300 magnum rifles I have owned or shot. The soft recoil pad I put on it helps.
Of course, I don't like to shoot any big game rifle a lot. Not what I consider a fun choice for target practice. A 22-250 is about as big a cartridge as I would go with if you want to shoot it a lot.
JimDandy
November 12, 2012, 04:25 PM
My Dad has 300 Win-Mag and I started on that, I now have 300RUM. As shown earlier the Army is adopting at least some .300 WinMag giving that cartridge a boost. It's already easier to find Win Mag than RUM in some reloading applications. If your LGS carries it is often either both, or a coin flip and they'll carry a ton of one, and none of hte other.
I road Tripped to my grandparents halfway across the country, stopping at every Cabelas on the way, and it seemed like several in the middle of the trip... Idaho through Wyo/Colo area were pretty hefty in the Win-Mag and skimpy on the RUM. Or Vice versa. I forget which, since I have several reload cycles left and wasn't buying. I just remember being whimsically entertained by the incongruity... An actual example of what I'm talking about though would be the RCBS Lube die. You can get one that fits Win-Mag but not RUM. Not that it really matters, you don't need either, because handloading that much .300 would be rare for anyone not in a camoflage clothed members only club in Northern Idaho of... unque... political beliefs.
I'd use either win-mag or RUM in 300 for anything I would hunt in North America. Though I'm unlikely to hunt anything big enough to hunt back. Fair chase is when I chase them, not the other way around.
David R. Svatos
November 12, 2012, 06:50 PM
The other thing I didn't mention earlier is the extra meat loss and cleanup due to massive tissue damage (red jello) when shot with a 300 mag as opposed to a 308.
Fishon63
November 15, 2012, 03:37 PM
I have decided and have purchased the T3 Tikka 300 Win Short Mag over the M77. Thanks to all for your helpful comments.
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