Future polymer handguns?

[Phantom8]

Besides the SW M&P, the Springfield XDs, and latest offering from FHN, i was wondering what will be the next polymer handgun to emerge from the major companies for the general public?

... I am trying to decide if I should hold off in getting the M&P .45 now, if there will be something on the horizon soon??.... I am also hesitant about getting this particular M&P because of what I've heard regarding the gritty trigger... and if I can get something else that doesn't need any work done, right out of the box, then that would be great :)

[wpsdlrg]

I have no specific "inside" knowledge of any soon to be released offerings, but a couple of very general predictions can be made, I think.

First, the market is largely saturated with brands and designs - and the manufacturers have largely run the technical gambit at this point. Unless someone comes up with something revolutionary, in terms of new designs, there's not much left to offer that hasn't been done already. Now that the "polymer revolution" is at high tide, so to speak, there isn't much else to be done with that. So, I see any new offerings advertised as somehow "better" or "unique", will in fact just (mostly) be gimmicky.

Second, production costs are still on the way up - and will, of course, continue in that direction. Polymer frames have made a big difference in that regard - but the cost advantage they offer will not last. That is to say that prices have plateaued for the time being - but that will not hold. So, I foresee further refinement of production methods, such as use of modular assemblies,
to hold down costs - at least for the "bread and butter" part of the market.

In conclusion, I would say that, if you are waiting for some "revolutionary" new design to show up - it ain't gonna happen.

[Phantom8]

awesome, thank you for the reply...this is the kind of insight that i was hoping to find. Please chime in if anyone else has any thoughts on this matter. Thanks!

[tahunua001]

the only polymer framed pistol that I've heard about is the rock river arms 1911(yes a polymer framed 1911 finally). it is posted on their website but n specifics on price or variants as of yet.

I am kindof hoping for 9mm two tone to be one of them but I won't hpold my breathe.

[IMightBeWrong]

I can't say for sure what is coming or when, but I can say there are two models I'd love to see: an M&P9 mid sized offering and a P30 with a short reset comparable to SIG's.

[CWKahrFan]

Here's more on the Rock River Poly 1911 mentioned above:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/rock-river-arms-polymer-1911/

http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=559

[Creeper]

Take a look, in a fairly decent level of depth, at the advantages and disadvantages in the use of various "Pistol Construction Materials" (http://www.chuckhawks.com/pistol_construction_materials.htm).

An interesting concept is the interchangeable caliber (http://www.steyrclub.com/vb/threads/8350-Thoughts-to-shortened-sight-lines-at-pistols)... as developed by Wilhelm Bubits. He's modified 1911 pattern handguns to accept 9mm thru .45ACP with a common slide. Wilhelm Bubits was involved in the design of the Glock and is the primary designer of the current Steyr and Caracal handguns... arguably, two of the most advanced polymer framed handguns on the market.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=84394&stc=1&d=1350949960

What does all this mean? Who can say. Trends drive the market, the market expands the trends, new trends replace old ones... those who aren't distracted by trends watch and laugh smugly to themselves.

C

[insomni]

The folks i know, and reviews i read say the m&p trigger smooths out between 2 and 400 rounds... nota horrific breakin period. The grittiness also is a bit overblown, much like the "wrist breaking" recoil of .40cal. It's there, but it's not very noticible. It certainly doesn't have an effect on performance. It is usually mentioned in the "if i could find any fault at all with the pistol" section at the end of the review.

[RBid]

The M&P 45 is great. No need to hold off, in my opinion. I like the M&P 45c, as well. Great size.

[Mystro]

I have quite a few but the Walther PPQ has set the new standard in polymer handguns in my collection. I had a FNS for a while but sold it due to the gritty trigger. it ruined the gun for me. I do like my FNX.

[aaronsc]

[QUOTE][the only polymer framed pistol that I've heard about is the rock river arms 1911(yes a polymer framed 1911 finally) /QUOTE]
I think STI has had some models with at least part of the frame made of polymer.

[tahunua001]

I was just talking about new releases, off the top of my head I can think of lots of polymer framed pistols just nothing more recent than the XD/s

[nazshooter]

Second, production costs are still on the way up - and will, of course, continue in that direction.

Are you talking mainly about the increasing costs of raw materials, energy, etc that are increasing the costs for nearly everything or is there something specific to the gun industry?

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[wpsdlrg]

Nothing specific to the gun industry - just complex manufactured products in general. Guns built the "traditional" way, including lots of hand assembly and fitting of parts, likely will eventually go away - labor costs too much (or will). Right now, there are still some opportunities to get around this - exporting jobs and production to rising 3rd world economies, for example. However, labor rates even in these nations are rising. So, eventually, more efficient production methods, combined with simplified or more efficient design (such as modular sub-assemblies) will be needed to keep costs under control - or guns will eventually only be affordable to the wealthy.

Funny, that is how it started with guns and most other machines - at first, only the wealthy could afford them - then, costs came down (via improved production methods, etc.) and this changed. It will be strange if this process goes full circle, in the future, but certainly not impossible.

[dyl]

Have you had a chance to try an M&P trigger? The grit on my 40 caliber is only present as you take up the slack and is due to the striker block plunger as it's being raised because they decided to make it with sharp edges for some reason. You could take it out and smooth it yourself if you wanted. Just in case you never get a chance to try the trigger.

[nazshooter]

Wpsdlrg:
I really don't think there is any hard limit on how efficiently we can produce things so prices will continue to drop. Maybe not in terms of dollars, given our financial mess, but at least in terms of how many hours of labor are needed to make enough money to buy one.

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[Phantom8]

I have not tried any of the M&P triggers. There's a range where I am at that has a M&P in .45, but you need a full membership to even try it out so I was just doing a little research before hand to see if there is any other promising gun on the horizon. It was by no means a post to unjustly criticize the M&P. I have heard many great things about it!

[ripnbst]

I'd like to see Glock offer a 1911, but the world might end too...

[Theohazard]

The problem with the M&P trigger isn't the pull, it's the reset - or lack thereof. Whereas Glocks, Walthers, etc. have a noticeable and solid trigger reset, all M&Ps except for the Shield have an almost imperceptible reset. So if you're shooting rapid-fire strings with the M&P you have to guess perfectly where the reset is, otherwise at best you'll slow down your follow-up shots. At worst, you'll have "trigger freeze" and you won't have any follow-up shots at all.

[tahunua001]

^^^ THANK YOU!!!!!
I always feel like I'm talking to a brick wall whenever I bring up the unreadable trigger reset when M&P discussions popup. glad to know I'm not completely crazy:D

[zombietactics]

There are actually some radically different firearms designs which have been prototyped, tested, proven and patented.

The difficulty is a perception that the firearms market it driven largely by tradition, and is tremendously slow to adapt to new products or change. If you consider that a 100-year-old metal-framed design and a 25-year-old polymer design are considered to be the "state of the art" in handguns, that perception seems sound.

I know of designs based upon truly caseless, electrically primed cartridges ... incredible stuff. But who wants to invest money in something like that in a market where change is feared and rejected with religious intensity?

[Theohazard]

Yeah, I've noticed most people don't rack the slide to check for the reset when they dry-fire a gun in gun shops. Because there are very few true double-action-only handguns these days, simply pulling the trigger and letting up on it won't give you a feel of what the trigger is actually like when fired.

Also, I'm thinking maybe most shooters don't ride the reset when shooting, because I've only seen one other person mention the M&P's lack of a felt reset on here, and I've never seen anyone mention the LC9's false reset.

[10mm4ever]

Design trends will be evolutionary, not revolutionary, until we've moved beyond metallic cartridge cases and smokeless powder.

[DFrame]

I think S&W will come out with some sort of polymer revolver (Ala Ruger). The basic frame of course will be steel but the surrounding material and grip frame can be a polymer. Polymers save a lot of weight and are MUCH cheaper to make.

[wpsdlrg]

"I think S&W will come out with some sort of polymer revolver (Ala Ruger). The basic frame of course will be steel but the surrounding material and grip frame can be a polymer. Polymers save a lot of weight and are MUCH cheaper to make"



THAT is a trend to which I will never accede. I've gotten well over my aversion to polymer semi-autos, even though I still favor all-metal pistols....but I will NEVER accept a polymer revolver.

To each his/her own, though.

[vyse.04]

I think S&W will come out with some sort of polymer revolver (Ala Ruger).

They did (polymer lower frame anyway)... The Bodyguard 38.