Got the AR fever and hve ??

[Panfisher]

I've been wanting one for a while but couldn't really nail down a reason (still can't), a friend from work send home his Stag Arms AR-15 with me last night. Where I live I can shoot from my back door so range time wasn't a problem. Right off the bat my wife was in love with the rifle, I guess 14 years of being in the army helped with that. I am in the process of building up my stash of mad money to buy one but the options are staggering so I have whittled down to a few questions.

I am thinking I want a complete rifle not build my own. I think I want a carbine 16" barrell, but for some inexplicable reason I want it to have a 16" hvy barrell, does that give me any advantage, will it balance better.

Some of the options I see have a slick side receiver, I sort of like the dust cover and deflector but don't know if it is an important thing.

6 position collapsible stock, can't really warm up to it, is there any advantage for normal use to a 6 pos over an A2 style.

I sort of like the whole A2 style but want the option of an optic device. Maybe a flat top with a removeable carry handle and rear sight. I have seen flat tops with a red dot type optic mounted and the A2 fixed front sight still there, does it show up when looking through the optics?

Is an optic a good thing? My wife obviously love the regular sights, I don't but can learn to use them fine. Not something really cheapo and not an ACOG either maybe a Burris red dot?? I would certainly plan on learning to use the basic sights well first and maybe be happy enough to leave them on.

What can I expect for "normal" accuracy. Havng grown up with bolt action rifles I like accuracy, but have heard everything from; if an AR will keep its bullets inside of 12 inches its good enough to an AR can be just as accurate as a bolt gun. Honestly with a scope I would be satisfied if I could keep them within 6" at 200 yards, beyond that I plan to be reaching for a different rifle.

Uses, basic family firearm fun mostly, myself, my wife and my 14 yr old son. It would also be close at hand should say a strange vehicle pull into my rural driveway late at night, which is where I start thinking about the red dot sight again!!

I have the feeling that for the most part they are going to be similar, basically a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota argument. Can I just go out and buy a Bushmaster and be happy. (they are on sale).

Really really overwhelmed by the sheer number of options, choices, makers etc. etc.

[eldorendo]

I bought my first AR almost 20-yrs-ago, an A2 Bushmaster Shorty. IF I'd known jack about ARs at the time, I'd have bought a flattop, but one lives and learns. I now not only like flattops better, but also like the collapsible stocks over the A2 stocks.

A good buy can be had at Adco Firearms, online, for $849, no taxes and $4 shipping. It's a RRA carbine flattop with chrome-lined barrel and National Match 2-stage trigger. I'd suggest just watching Adco's inventory listings and buying the carbine online.

I've built several ARs, using Stag stripped lowers, various trigger groups and both Daniel Defense, RRA and Yankee Hill Machine barrels. They're all good; they're all accurate, and they never fail.

PSA and Spike's also manufacture good ARs at reasonable prices. One caveat about any of the brands I've named, though: If you ever hope to be initiated into Rambolistas Universal, you should use the words, "LaRue" and "Noveske" in a few posts in forums like this! ;)

http://adcofirearms.com/itemdetails_.cfm?inventorynumber=1328

[Crow Hunter]

Mine in red.

I've been wanting one for a while but couldn't really nail down a reason (still can't), a friend from work send home his Stag Arms AR-15 with me last night. Where I live I can shoot from my back door so range time wasn't a problem. Right off the bat my wife was in love with the rifle, I guess 14 years of being in the army helped with that. I am in the process of building up my stash of mad money to buy one but the options are staggering so I have whittled down to a few questions.

I am thinking I want a complete rifle not build my own.Good idea, you get a rifle with a warranty and if you wind up not liking it, you can sell it easier. If you do like it, you will want another, then you can build.;) I think I want a carbine 16" barrell, but for some inexplicable reason I want it to have a 16" hvy barrell, does that give me any advantage, will it balance better.If you want it to be very muzzle heavy, yes. If you want it to balance right in front of the magazine well go "standard barrel". I don't like to hold up a very heavy barrel, I would rather have neutral to a very slight forward balance.

Some of the options I see have a slick side receiver, I sort of like the dust cover and deflector but don't know if it is an important thing.The deflector is good if you ever shoot left handed, the dust cover can be useful, but isn't necessary. I would rather have it than not.

6 position collapsible stock, can't really warm up to it, is there any advantage for normal use to a 6 pos over an A2 style.Yes. It is lighter and it can be adjusted based on what you are wearing (Summer clothes vs heavy winter clothes) or the size of the shooter. I am spoiled now. Every gun I pick up I reach to adjust, even those that don't have one.:o I don't ever plan on getting another rifle without an adjustable stock if I can avoid it.

I sort of like the whole A2 style but want the option of an optic device. Maybe a flat top with a removeable carry handle and rear sight. I have seen flat tops with a red dot type optic mounted and the A2 fixed front sight still there, does it show up when looking through the optics?Flat top is the ONLY way to go. If you don't want an optic, just leave the carry handle in place. Yes, the front sight is still visible, but you won't notice it. With a red dot sight, you don't look at the dot. You focus on the target and you superimpose the dot on the target while you have both eyes open. The front sight just ghosts out. Just like putting your hand over your right eye and looking at something with both eyes open. You "see through" your hand. It also helps if you mount the Red Dot sight so the front sight is in the lower 1/3 of the viewing area. Do a search for Lower 1/3 Cowitness pictures, it will help explain it. Using a magnified optic will usually focus "past" the front sight base and you will only see an indistinct shadow. It bothers me but others are fine with it.

Is an optic a good thing? My wife obviously love the regular sights, I don't but can learn to use them fine. Not something really cheapo and not an ACOG either maybe a Burris red dot?? I would certainly plan on learning to use the basic sights well first and maybe be happy enough to leave them on.Red Dot sights are a serious force multiplier. It is both quicker, easier to learn and use and visible in the dark. I have tried red dot sights, ACOGs and variable powered optics and I prefer the Red Dot Sights to them all by a wide margin for anything other than shooting long range at relatively stationary targets.

What can I expect for "normal" accuracy. Havng grown up with bolt action rifles I like accuracy, but have heard everything from; if an AR will keep its bullets inside of 12 inches its good enough to an AR can be just as accurate as a bolt gun. Honestly with a scope I would be satisfied if I could keep them within 6" at 200 yards, beyond that I plan to be reaching for a different rifle.Most factory ARs will do that pretty easily. Depending on modification even better. Usually a bigger factor in accuracy of an AR is the ammo or the nut behind the trigger than the inherent accuracy of the rifle itself

Uses, basic family firearm fun mostly, myself, my wife and my 14 yr old son. It would also be close at hand should say a strange vehicle pull into my rural driveway late at night, which is where I start thinking about the red dot sight again!!It helps, especially in low light and behind a flashlight.

I have the feeling that for the most part they are going to be similar, basically a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota argument. Can I just go out and buy a Bushmaster and be happy. (they are on sale).Yes and no. There are several different grades, usually reflected in the price, but unless you are needing a rifle as a duty weapon for an LEO, most of the rifles will be fine and most problems will show up in the 1st 200 rounds and the warranty should cover that.

Really really overwhelmed by the sheer number of options, choices, makers etc. etc.Just go with a basic M4 copy (carbine) or a full sized rifle and get to know the rifle and then you will know more what you want/need and can either upgrade the rifle you have or sell and buy what you want or just build a new rifle from parts.

Come to the Dark Side, kool aid is nice, and we have cookies.:D

[Panfisher]

Thanks Crowhunter. I like cookies. Maybe the first AR will be my wifes and the next I will know enough to pick what I want. Hmmmmm I like that idea.

[chris in va]

Really no need to spend $1000 on an AR. My $640 S&W Sport has been stellar, if you don't need a few unnecessary doodads.

[ripnbst]

May I make a suggestion? S&W M&P15 Sport. No ejection port cover or forward assist but as a plinker those aren't needed and these rifles get strong reviews. Here's what you're going to like, you get them for close to $600. Use this as your "learning platform" for what you want.

If you want to buy something that you're going to want to keep a long time this would be my list of must have features:

Mid-Length Gas System
13" (or thereabouts)Free float handguard
16" chrome lined barrel, preferably an M249 barrel that is double chrome lined
Low Profile Gas Block (No A2 Sight Base)
6 position stock, not Magpul MOE but the CTR or a VLTOR Option
M16 Bolt Carrier Group
VLTOR BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 Charging Handle
Ejection Port Cover and Forward Assist
Flip Up Back Up Iron Sites, pretty much any work well
Non-Magnified Red Dot Optic of your choice
Flat Top Upper Receiver
Forged Lower receiver from brand of your choice as long as it's not garbage

To buy a complete rifle from a reputable manufacturer that fits all those requirements you are probably looking at over $1500 but buy once cry once. I built mine because 1.) It was real tough to find a complete rifle that had everything I wanted and 2.) I built my rifle with all that for about $1200.

I strongly recommend Palmetto State Armory as one to compare everything else against in an "Entry level" rifle. For mid grade I would use Bravo Company as the benchmark and for the high end it's tough to say who the bench mark is since there are many who are "craftsman" and its more about who you want to build yours. Wilson Combat makes AR15's, so does Larue Tactical, Loki Weapon Systems, so does Noveske, and many others.

One brand I would recommend and put against anyone that is not very well known but gaining in popularity every day is Loki Weapons Systems. Because they are still gaining name recognition you could have an incredible rifle for much less than some of the others who you are "paying for the name"

[Marquezj16]

May I make a suggestion? S&W M&P15 Sport. No brass deflector or charging handle

I agree with the M&P 15 Sport as a great first AR type rifle. Mine has been flawless and accurate. However, it does have a brass deflector and charging handle. It does not have a forward assist or ejection port cover.

I would also recommend BCM. I used their components on a my build.

[ripnbst]

Good catch marquez, thats what I meant to say. Sorry for any confusion.

[BIG P]

Got my Stag 20'' flattop for 600.00 & with a 2x10 scope drink cans at 200 aint hard.

Stag is worth a look.;)

[madcratebuilder]

Go with a M4gery carbine with the roll mark of your choice (kool aid flavor) The collapsible stock well fit you, your wife and your son well claim it as his.

Any AR should get 6"@200yds, that's 3 moa, doable with surplus ammo. A red dot sight is easy to setup and you get very quick target acquisition. Dozens of red dots to chose from, I like my Primary Arms Micro with a ADM QD mount and co-witness the irons.

[Panfisher]

I'll probably wait until this fall and hit the gunshows, they seem to have a little better prices sometimes. Although a local store has the Bushmaster ORC, 16" flat top etc. for $800. After looking through options I guess whichever stock I get if I don't like it the other is only $70 away looks like. My wife was used to the old M16A2, I have long arms and my son's arms are just a long. She is already talking about "her" AR15, maybe I'll have to save for 2??

Thanks everyone.

[tobnpr]

Doing the build yourself can be fun, and educational. No better way to learn how the rifle "ticks"... and, you can even save a few bucks if you find some components on closeout. And, you'll get EXACTLY what you want...not a best compromise based on what's commercially available.

Heavy barrels are generally considered more accurate if target shooting is the goal- as are free-float handguards.

Optics, depends on what you're going to use the rifle for.

Red-dots are great for closer shots- and particularly for self-defense applications where very quick target acquisition is essential.

In my son's case, he has a 6.5 Grendel AR he uses for long-range target, and also likes to shoot offhand at closer ranges. His rifle has both a medium-power variable scope (3.5-10x) on top, as well as a mini-red dot mounted on a 45 degree angle alongside it on a Warne RAMP mount.

Many shooters find that the 1-4x scope (many brands now available) are a great compromise, offering the zero magnification of a red dot, and up to 4x for better accuracy at longer ranges.

[customaquatics]

what about a Palmetto State Armory? i mean no other company i know of offers a 1-7 twist standard on there rifles plus they are like $700. Rock Island i think has a 1-8 option.

[Mobuck]

The AR I use most is a 16" Hbar profile carbine with collapsible stock and 1.5-5x32 scope. I find the Hbar weight is beneficial to a steadier hold. I accept the slight additional weight in return for better in field accuracy. This AR is carried nearly every day from midDecember through early April. It provides coyote killing accuracy out to 250 yards consistently off a bipod or prop sticks.

[rivertamer]

Another great rifle that comes in at a great price point is the Windham weaponry Src..... Sight ready carbine.....I picked one up at my lgs and I have to tell you it is a great value..... Google Windham weaponry and read their story.... Every review I have read has been stellar.
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc411/rivertamer1/IMAG0514.jpg

Sent from my tricked out Synergy Evo!

[Eghad]

I purchased a DoubleStar HBar Carbine for $659.00. A nice rifle.

[Nathan]

I've been wanting one for a while but couldn't really nail down a reason (still can't). . .
. . .wife was in love with the rifle

Congrat's. It will be a good bit of fun and you already have the wife on board.

I am thinking I want a complete rifle not build my own. I think I want a carbine 16" barrell, but for some inexplicable reason I want it to have a 16" hvy barrell, does that give me any advantage, will it balance better.

My opinion FWIW, is that the lighter the barrel, the better the balance. AR's are always butt light! I will buy a 16" lwt profile when I build again.

Some of the options I see have a slick side receiver, I sort of like the dust cover and deflector but don't know if it is an important thing.

IMO, you are best off going M4 style, but I have maybe used my forward assist once in 12 years! I do like the dust cover because a proper AR lube jub leave the bolt wet. The dust cover can help keep it clean.

6 position collapsible stock, can't really warm up to it, is there any advantage for normal use to a 6 pos over an A2 style.

I have used both. The A2 is better for accurate shooting, but the adjustables are best for quickness of raising the gun to shoulder and getting a shot off. Something like a Vltor is a good balance of both.

I sort of like the whole A2 style but want the option of an optic device. Maybe a flat top with a removeable carry handle and rear sight. I have seen flat tops with a red dot type optic mounted and the A2 fixed front sight still there, does it show up when looking through the optics?

Yes, you can see the front sight, but properly setup, it is not an issue and low in your sight picture. The A2 front sight base with taper pins IS the best gas block, so it should be a priority to you.

Is an optic a good thing? My wife obviously love the regular sights, I don't but can learn to use them fine. Not something really cheapo and not an ACOG either maybe a Burris red dot?? I would certainly plan on learning to use the basic sights well first and maybe be happy enough to leave them on.
For an AR, it's accuracy poteential is so high and us civies use them to shoot accuracy games so much, I think a red dot or 1-4x is ideal. EOTech is a nice option if you have good eyes.

What can I expect for "normal" accuracy. Havng grown up with bolt action rifles I like accuracy, but have heard everything from; if an AR will keep its bullets inside of 12 inches its good enough to an AR can be just as accurate as a bolt gun. Honestly with a scope I would be satisfied if I could keep them within 6" at 200 yards, beyond that I plan to be reaching for a different rifle.

My AR's have all had near bolt gun accuracy. I think this one shoots ~1.25" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. 4x scope. My bolt gun is like .6" for 5 at 100 yards.

Uses, basic family firearm fun mostly, myself, my wife and my 14 yr old son. It would also be close at hand should say a strange vehicle pull into my rural driveway late at night, which is where I start thinking about the red dot sight again!!

I would buy a built lower like you want and have it sent to your FFL and a built upper like you want sent to your FFL. Something like:
upper - link (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm)

lower - link (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Lower-Receiver-Groups-M4-AR15-s/117.htm)

Then get a forearm, grip, mags and butt stock as you would like. <- +$250 Magpul and Vltor make good stuff.

[eldorendo]

I would buy a built lower like you want and have it sent to your FFL and a built upper like you want sent to your FFL. Something like:
uppe

Just curious as to why you'd have the upper sent to an FFL??

[AK103K]

The flat top is the way to go, and a double flat top is even better. You can always add the fixed type if you want, or just go with a good set of BUIS and use an optic without the irons interfering at all.

Personally, I prefer the A1 length stocks, as they mimic pretty much all the other combat stocked rifles in length. The A2's are about 5/8" longer, and just dont feel right when shouldered. I was never a big fan of the slider, collapsible stocks, but they have grown on me. The fixed stocks do seem to balance the gun better though.

This is an Armalite M15A4(C) with an M16 A1 length stock, an Aimpoint M2, and a set of GG&G BUIS. As you can see, the flat top allows for a lot more options and versatility....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27eb506798a00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Same gun with the fixed sights that came with another gun....
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27ea13bf88d00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This is an Armalite M15A4(T), again with the A1 stock, a Leupold 1.5x5 scope on a ARMS lever mount. It also has a pre zeroed Aimpoint on a ARMS lever mount, both of which cn be swapped out at will, without loss of zero. It also has a AAC M4-2000 suppressor (keeps the neighbors guessing :) )

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2d834b3127ccef00b23dfb9c900000030O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

M&P M15T with a collapsible stock, Aimpoint ML2, and AAC M4-2000.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2d834b3127ccef00a1d04994100000030O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[meanmachine1961]

Another vote for the M&P Sport. It is my first AR and I am very pleased with it.