First handgun for beginner; low recoil needed [Archive]

Chris37

June 25, 2012, 07:53 AM

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the world of handguns and am looking for my first semi-auto. I've shot .22lr pistols and various rifles before but nothing bigger than that.

I have small to medium size hands for a male and due to a car accident many years ago, I'm recoil sensitive. I need something that isn't going to have a harsh felt recoil or high muzzle flip. I'm mainly looking for a home defense handgun more than anything else, I don't plan on getting my concealed carry so size isn't an issue.

I'd like something in the $400-$600 range and from my research, I've found about 4 different handguns that I wanted to get some opinions on before going to the gun store.

I'm basically looking at the CZ 75b 9mm, Rock Island Armory 1911 9mm, Beretta 92FS 9mm, and Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm. From all of my research, the general consensus is that a larger, heavier gun will have less felt-recoil than a smaller gun and the PX4 Storm seems to have less felt-recoil because of the rotating barrel design.

Are all these handguns reliable and what would you recommend? Any other suggestions other than what I'm considering?

Are all of these pistols a DA/SA design and what does that actually mean? I'm probably a bit weaker in my trigger finger than many other males due to this car accident and want to make sure I can pull the trigger easily enough. Can I bypass the Double-Action on these guns by cocking back the hammer for my first shot and then firing in single-action mode requiring less force?

Thanks for everything, I appreciate it!
Chris

loose_holster_dan

June 25, 2012, 07:58 AM

the px4 will have higher felt recoil due to decrease in weight. cz and beretta (92) will be the best for low felt recoil, as they are heavy with long barrels to reduce muzzle flip. however, if your condition also reduces the strength of your grip, the cz might not be the way to go. it is a little more difficult to rack the slide, since it is a short (height) slide, and there isn't much to grip. the beretta slide would be easier to get a grip on. the beretta grip is fairly large tho, so small hands may not feel as comfortable. make sure to hold and try to manipulate both before making a decision. if the cz slide is too small and the beretta grip is too wide, the RIA would be a decent choice, altho, the cz and beretta are much better choices. this might be the first time i recommended a beretta over a cz :D

TacticalDefense1911

June 25, 2012, 08:16 AM

I did not see it on your list but I'd like to offer up the S&W M&P 9mm fullsize. Its very mild shooting and comes with adjustable backstraps so that you can fit the pistol grip to your hands. Its low bore axis helps with recoil control. They can come with or without a thumb safety, whichever you prefer. Lots of aftermarket support for these guns as well including sights and holsters.

Personally, I would try to stay away from a DA/SA gun like the CZ75, Beretta 92 or PX4 for a first handgun. 9mm 1911's are known to be very finicky, even more so then .45 caliber 1911's. A striker fired gun like the M&P or Glock would be a good starting point since it provides a consistent trigger pull every time you pull the trigger. Just my opinion for a beginner.

Chris37

June 25, 2012, 08:27 AM

Personally, I would try to stay away from a DA/SA gun like the CZ75, Beretta 92 or PX4 for a first handgun. 9mm 1911's are known to be very finicky, even more so then .45 caliber 1911's. A striker fired gun like the M&P or Glock would be a good starting point since it provides a consistent trigger pull every time you pull the trigger. Just my opinion for a beginner.

Is there a particular reason for staying away from a DA/SA? I guess from everything I've read, it seems like a DA/SA would be good for a beginner.

I guess I'm trying to stay away from Glock's because of the polymer frame which has more recoil than a heavier, steel-framed pistol. I'm trying to get as little felt recoil as possible and I haven't ever heard of a Glock having low recoil unless I'm wrong?

the px4 will have higher felt recoil due to decrease in weight. cz and beretta (92) will be the best for low felt recoil, as they are heavy with long barrels to reduce muzzle flip. however, if your condition also reduces the strength of your grip, the cz might not be the way to go. it is a little more difficult to rack the slide, since it is a short (height) slide, and there isn't much to grip. the beretta slide would be easier to get a grip on. the beretta grip is fairly large tho, so small hands may not feel as comfortable. make sure to hold and try to manipulate both before making a decision. if the cz slide is too small and the beretta grip is too wide, the RIA would be a decent choice, altho, the cz and beretta are much better choices. this might be the first time i recommended a beretta over a cz

My grip is a bit reduced compared to others my age but it's not awful. I can grip pretty well but I can't take a lot of force being pressed against me or handle a heavy trigger pull.

I like the RIA 1911 because of the single-stack which would probably work better with smaller hands but I'll get a grip on all four and see what feels the best.

In a DA/SA gun, can I avoid the long and heavy DA pull by cocking back the hammer manually for my first shot? This would be ideal for me.

moxie

June 25, 2012, 08:46 AM

Of those you mention, the CZ is a sweet piece. Low recoil, accurate, dependable.

I'd also check out the Glock 17/19 or M&P 9/9c. These are even simpler to operate which could be a big plus with dexterity issues.

rha600

June 25, 2012, 09:02 AM

I vote for the Berettas base on the slides. If you have reduced strength in your hands at all, something like a glock will be much more difficult to pull the slide back on. The PX4 and 92F both have the safety selector switches on the back and from watching my GF with my PF4 she uses those to help her get a good grip on the slide and pull it back. The glock you have to rely on the serrations which may or may not be enough.

As far as the two Berettas go, I would find a place where you can try them both. Theoretically the 92F should have less felt recoil but I've been told the PX has very little due to the rotating barrel design. honestly, I own a full size and a compact and they feel very easy to shoot, but I also shoot a 357 mag and a 500 mag so any 9mm is going to feel light.

PetahW

June 25, 2012, 09:46 AM

Just my $0.02, after 50-odd years of playing with guns: Since CCW (mobility & concealibility) isn't an issue, AND you may have an issue with autoloader slide-racking (loading and or clearing malfunction), for strictly HD, I would much rather have a 12ga pump shotgun than ANY handgun.

Failing that, you should consider a full-size .38 Special 6-shot 4"-6" bbl'd revolver. If your fingers have difficulty operating a DA trigger pull, you might be surprized at how easy/fast it is to cock the hammer for each shot with the thumb of the off hand when using the proper two-hand hold.

I realize that you want an autoloader, but if your physical limitations are going to force you to use a less adequate gun, the use of a revolver (with proper grips, like rubber bumpers) may allow you to step up in power if you'd like to.

FWIW, CZ's have the slide nestled between the frame rails, ILO of having a lot of slide exposed like other design - which makes them somewhat harder to hand cycle (rack).

.

iamdb

June 25, 2012, 10:10 AM

Stick with a large, heavy, metal gun in 9mm for lowest felt recoil. Or even a 38 special in a steel frame revolver with a 4"-6" barrel.

loose_holster_dan

June 25, 2012, 10:17 AM

Chris37

June 25, 2012, 10:26 AM

yes you can cock a DA to make it SA. when you rack the slide, it is automatically in SA, so unless you decock it, you will always be in SA anyways.

go try out the cz. if you can rack the slide there is no better option for the price IMO

This is what I really wanted to know, I won't have a problem pulling the trigger in SA but was worried about it in DA. If I'm able to rack the slide and put it in SA before I'm ready to fire, I see no reason not to get a semiauto.

Failing that, you should consider a full-size .38 Special 6-shot 4"-6" bbl'd revolver. If your fingers have difficulty operating a DA trigger pull, you might be surprized at how easy/fast it is to cock the hammer for each shot with the thumb of the off hand when using the proper two-hand hold.

I realize that you want an autoloader, but if your physical limitations are going to force you to use a less adequate gun, the use of a revolver (with proper grips, like rubber bumpers) may allow you to step up in power if you'd like to.

Not a big fan of revolvers, I just don't care for them. I feel inherently more comfortable with a semiauto for whatever reason and I guess that's half the battle right?

AdamSean

June 25, 2012, 10:32 AM

Just about anything you listed will work just fine. If you are looking for the least recoil, I would go with a metal frame. I have been told the Beretta 92FS has little recoil. Look for low recoil ammunition too.

TailGator

June 25, 2012, 10:36 AM

I own a 92FS and my daughter has a PX4 Compact, so we have had the opportunity to shoot them both side-by-side. We both thought they were very close in perceived recoil, with a slight edge going to the PX4 being softer shooting. I know that might seem counter-intuitive to those who have not shown both, but apparently the rotating barrel design at least makes up for the decrease in mass for the polymer PX4.

As far as DA/SA goes, I don't see the problem. The DA pull is heavier and longer, but quite manageable. The transition should be practiced, but it only happens once each time you flick off the safety. Since the OP has some compromise in his hands, he should try the DA trigger before he buys (and most gun shops will allow a couple of dry fires even if they don't want you to stand their clicking away forever). If your hands are strong enough to work it, there is no reason to let a DA/SA trigger be a deal breaker.

So many 1911s take some tinkering that I have a hard to recommending them for a beginner, but then I'm not a devotee, either, so that is probably sacrilege to some folks here. The need for repeatedly firing DA or else repeatedly cocking a hammer makes me lean away from recommending a revolver in this instance, as well.

TomInLa

June 25, 2012, 11:42 AM

I can recommend the PX4 Storm (and it comes with 2 additional backstraps to customize the grip also) in 9mm. Also, it comes in 3 sizes, full, compact, and sub-compact. But the rotating barrel design is only made in the full and compact sizes.

willmc33

June 25, 2012, 01:56 PM

.38 Special revolver or something along the lines of a used Smith and Wesson 5906 or Beretta 92FS. Used because the spring may have softened up some. I say go with a slide mounted decocker or safety like the 2 9mm's I mentioned as it gives you something more to grip as you charge the weapon. The .38 is the best first gun in my opinion but if you must have an auto loader its hard to beat the 5906 or 92FS with your limitations that need to be met.

Oysterboy

June 25, 2012, 02:17 PM

Got a range near by that rent guns? Or an LGS that'll let you handle guns and dry fire them?

I think it's a good way for you to determine what you can handle.

ftballgod

June 25, 2012, 02:32 PM

i love the beretta 92. i have owned a few over the years. right now i have 2 stainless 92fs's i have many other 9mms but these are among my favs.

labhound

June 25, 2012, 03:37 PM

I have both the 9mm Beretta 92FS and PX4. The 92FS has a somewhat fat grip and the PX4 has changeable backgrips to adjust to different hand size and grip preferences. Both are very soft shooting guns and are easy to rack the slide. PX4 weighs less having a polymer frame versus the alloy frame of the 92FS but honestly the recoil is the same to me. I have five 9mm's, 92FS, PX4, Ruger SR9, FNH FNS-9 and a Stoeger Cougar 8000 F. Some are polymer, some alloy, some hammer fired and some striker fired. To be honest, I don't see two cents difference in any of the perceived recoil. The SR9 is the hardest to rack but still not difficult. Try to rent any type that you're thinking of buying. Different people perceive recoil differently, what seems soft to one person may not seem soft to another.

tdawg

June 25, 2012, 03:47 PM

In a DA/SA gun, can I avoid the long and heavy DA pull by cocking back the hammer manually for my first shot? This would be ideal for me.

Yes. By pulling the hammer back manually, you are giving yourself a single action trigger pull. Double action means that the trigger pull is cocking the hammer and then releasing the hammer to fire the pistol in one motion.

DA/SA just means the first trigger pull is performing two actions and will be a much heavier pull, and all subsequent pulls will be single action and quite light because the hammer will already be cocked back for firing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Chris37

June 25, 2012, 03:54 PM

What's a good price on a new Beretta 92FS or a CZ 75b?

I don't mind a heavier gun and like the look of the Beretta 92FS over the PX4 Storm.

Anyone with any experience with the RIA 1911 9mm? Good gun or should I shy away from it?

cwok

June 25, 2012, 04:03 PM

You might consider checking out the Beretta Cheetah line of .380 autos.

They are a little larger and heavier than most .380 pistols ---> which means less perceived recoil.

I've only handled then in a gun store, but they seemed well put together and they are DA/SA with external hammers.

Two or three hits with a .380 beats ......

Sparks1957

June 25, 2012, 04:22 PM

which means less perceived recoil

I wouldn't be so sure about that, cwok. Most .380s are blowback designs, and they can be a bit snappy because of that. A full-size 9mm like a CZ 75B will be a softer shooter.

Since I had both my CZ 83 and my CZ 75 out this morning, the difference is fresh in my memory.

AndyWest

June 25, 2012, 04:33 PM

My vote is for the Beretta 92FS. I have biggish hands, but I've found the slide easy to grip and pull, and the recoil seems relatively mild and smooth. The hammer is easy to pull manually if you want to, and a gunsmith can make the trigger even smoother if you want to spend a few more bucks.

If you buy it, you may also consider fitting Hogue grips on it. They're super simple to install and make the recoil more comfortable.

jfrey

June 25, 2012, 04:36 PM

I agree with Sparks, the little .380's are snappy to shoot and some really hate them because of it. Low recoil and easy to shoot leads me to two suggestions. The first is the Browning Hi-Power. You can find them used for around $600.00. The second suggestion is the S&W 5906. Seems to be quite a few of those on the market lately and they are usually priced affordably. Never discount the G19 either. Tough as a brick and easy to shoot well once you master them.

TailGator

June 25, 2012, 04:41 PM

I don't mind a heavier gun and like the look of the Beretta 92FS over the PX4 Storm.

A lot of people, myself included, number the Beretta 92 among the most handsome handguns in production.

What's a good price on a new Beretta 92FS or a CZ 75b?

Ray Tanner of Tanner's Sport Center (http://tannerssportcenter.com/) has prices as good as anyone around on new Berettas, and he ships Priority Mail for $20. I have bought pistols from him twice, and he was pleasant to work with, shipped the same day he received payment, and everything went smooth as silk.

Mrgunsngear

June 25, 2012, 04:42 PM

Of the guns you listed; I'd say the 92 (92A1 is even softer due to recoil buffer and the weight of the rail).

But, the Caracal F seems like a softer recoiling weapon to me (and others that have tried it). The very low bore axis seems vs the very high axis on most DA/SA guns seems to make it shoot extremely soft.

Therealkoop

June 25, 2012, 05:04 PM

Sig, beretta, and CZ's all have some high weights for being 9mm. Id personally suggest the cz just because of the low bore axis and high weight.

Sparks1957

June 25, 2012, 05:09 PM

The CZ 75B is nice as you can carry it "cocked and locked" like a 1911, and avoid that first DA pull entirely.

I'm really growing to like mine a great deal, and it is already moving my Sig
P229 into second-place as a range pistol.

CZs are a great value for the money.

TomInLa

July 14, 2012, 09:24 AM

May also want to take look at the Stoeger Cougar series, if you like the Beretta design. They are licensed by Beretta, built with Beretta original Cougar machines, which they transferred to Turkey before moving on to the PX4 series. You get Beretta design, quality, warranty, etc. They feel good, especially if you lilke the 92/96 lineup, but they are really well priced, and available in 9MM & .40S&W for sure. I have the .40 and feel like I got a really good deal. Shoots great, eats everything, and the Beretta rotating barrel design absorbs a lot of the felt recoil, and muzzle flip usually associated with the .40 S&W. I actually like it better than the Beretta 96 Inox which was my 40 of choice until 2 months ago when I got the Stoeger.

labhound

July 14, 2012, 03:54 PM

I've got a Stoeger Cougar 8000 F (9mm) and an 8045. Both excellent guns. Stoeger is owned by Beretta and Beretta lists the Stoeger on it's international web site.
http://www.beretta.com/Defence-Pistols-Carbines/Defence/Full/index.aspx?m=82&idc=16

dave421

July 14, 2012, 07:23 PM

I wouldn't entirely discount polymer pistols. It's true that you have a lower weight but the polymer can also have a tiny amount of flex to soften recoil. In addition, a mid-weight trigger pull sounds like it would be better than getting stuck with a heavy DA trigger pull before you get to SA. I just don't think it's wise to count on remembering to pull the hammer back before your first shot. A Glock 17 or 34 has an extremely low bore axis and VERY little recoil. The M&P series (my preference) also has very low felt recoil. I've had arthritis in the base of my thumbs (basically where recoil hits) since I was 12 and it's to the point now where 9mm and larger .45s are all that I can shoot without being in pain for hours. I've owned many 1911s and a couple of Sigs and shot quite a few Beretta 92s. I personally find the Glock 34 to be the softest shooting 9mm I've ever fired and find full size M&Ps about equal to my old Sig P226. Try a few out before you decide.

Aguila Blanca

July 14, 2012, 09:00 PM

Is there a particular reason for staying away from a DA/SA? I guess from everything I've read, it seems like a DA/SA would be good for a beginner.

The reason is that the first shot (if fired double action) has a long and heavy trigger pull, and the succeeding shots (which are all single action) have a much shorter and lighter trigger pull. The transition from the first shot to the second can be ... unsettling.

I've been shooting for many years and I'm an NRA handgun instructor, but I admit that I'm basically a 1911 guy. A few weeks ago I went to the range after work on a Friday with a couple of co-workers, one of whom insisted I try out his older model S&W semi-auto. Don't recall the model number, probably something like a 5906 (?). It was one of their early, all steel semi-autos such as were very popular with police departments 20 or so years ago, when they were first transitioning away from revolvers.

I knew -- but completely forgot -- that the S&W #### is a DA/SA design. First shot went okay, on the paper and somewhere in the vicinity of the target. I started to line up the sec... BANG! The danged gun went off before I told it to ... or, actually, it went off when my finger told it to, but my brain wasn't on board with that program yet. The sights were pointed down-range but very much were NOT aligned on the center of the bullseye, and I'm pretty sure I came closer to hitting the overhead baffle than I did to being on paper.

I didn't care for it at all. Went back to my 1911s. All single action, all the time.

TxFlyFish

July 14, 2012, 10:11 PM

you guys should mention that 92fs has one of the largest grips, especially on models without radiused back strap. (of course if you can swing the 92fs, then you should also consider full size sigs) Of those you mentioned i would opt for the cz 75b. Other ones to consider are Glock 17/34 4th gen and XDM. M&P9 i feel has a slightly sharper flip but returns to target quicker and in the end you might not "perceive" as much recoil

oh i just read aguila post and good mention about the SW 5906. they are pretty tame too

jjyergler

July 14, 2012, 10:48 PM

the Browning Hi-Power. I have always thought that it was a soft shooter, although the Beretta 92 would be another good choice. Both of them are a bit heavier, and I believe that does tame the recoil.

As for .380s, my mom has arthritic hands, couldn't manage the trigger on her Walther PP .32 ACP, so I got her a PK380 for Christmas a couple years ago. She has no problem with the recoil, and if anyone would be recoil sensitive, she would be the one.

FlySubCompact

July 15, 2012, 12:07 PM

Chris,

Dave, above, suggested the Glock 34. I was at the range one day and a lady at the table next to us had one of those. She let me shoot it. After the first shot, the first words out of my grinning mouth were: "My, that is a pussycat." She told me that is exactly why she bought it. Had my own ammo and mags, so she let my wife and I run a few mags through it.

i'm not dealing with your restrictions, nor have I shot a lot of semi's in service calibers, but that long slide 9mm Glock was easy on the recoil. You might want to try one yourself.

Chris37

July 17, 2012, 05:40 PM

Since posting this thread, I ended up picking the Beretta M9 as my first handgun. I paid $550 for it plus tax which I feel is reasonable for what I've seen them selling for.

I've been lurking around the forum for a while but I completely forgot to respond to this thread, I appreciate all the suggestions I was given and it's helped me find my little gem.

I went out to the range a few days ago and finally shot it, recoil is almost non existent! I was a bit worried at first but after that first shot, all my worries disappeared. I popped off about 50 rounds on the first day, absolutely a joy to shoot. Very easy for me to handle.

Now I'm getting more interested in handguns realizing how irrational my fears have been about recoil. Obviously I won't be stepping up to a S&W 500 anytime soon but I'd like to acquire a few more guns as the budget allows. Maybe a .357 magnum (shooting .38 special though) or a full-size 1911 .45:D.

Really appreciate all the advice, I'll be lurking around more. Attached is a staged pic of my new M9 plus a few other of my necessities.