Would you trust your life to a 1911?

[hlds54]

It seems latley that people have called the reliabiliy of the 1911 into question. As in its not suitable for carry, defense, etc. That it is only good for competition shooting and to look at. I dissagree I wouldnt carry my 1911 Range Officer but i would a colt series 70, 80, or some of Springfields other models. What do you all think?

[Scorch]

Already trusted my life to a 1911, no issues here. I have carried a 1911, a Combat Commander, a Browning HP. Never had an issue with any of them.

[vyse.04]

They have been in use for many, many years now so I think they are a good choice. I think the 1911 problems tend to be a little overblown. Just like any firearm, you can have a malfunction. If your 1911 shoots well, I see no reason why it shouldn't be trusted for CC.

[RC20]

Ditto

[Auto426]

I already trust my life to a 1911, so that answer would be yes.

People have been trusting their lives to 1911's for about 100 years now. I see no reason to change now.

[chadio]

Depends...

Are we talking about the well - maintained, original 1911 that I shot in the Navy? Shooting factory ammo? Yes, I would trust my life to it.

Are we talking a modified or race gun? Reloads? .... nnnnope ;)

YMMV

[WVsig]

Yes and I often do.

[TunnelRat]

If you like cocked and locked I see no reason why not :). It was the US service pistol for as long as it was for a reason.

I do think the reliability problems of the 1911 are overblown. But keep in mind it is a 100 year old design. Hollow points weren't the rage like they are today so it wasn't designed with those in mind.

That said a good 1911 will feed them fine. Just make sure to get good magazines! They can make or break any gun, but some companies get cheap with them.

Lastly, an old 1911 rattles like a tin pot. Today the rage is to make them so tight that you can't fit a hair in the gaps. That wasn't the original intent. A little looseness helps it stay reliable. I honestly believe a lot of the 1911 problems today exist because of people making them too tight. That was the case with the last one I had from S&W. But they fixed it right.

[Coltman 77]

Yes I have. I love a 1911. :)

I trusted my life for many years to a Colt MKIV Series '70 Government Model. I was a pharmaceutical sales representative (Wyeth Labs. now Pfizer) and covered a large territory in SC and Georgia.

That Colt was damned good company on many lonely rural highways and motels out in the sticks. ;)

However, that was in the late '70s through the '80s and handguns have evolved since then.

Today my carry choices would be HK P30, HK 45C or my HK P2000 SK for their almost total reliability. YMMV.

[jfrey]

My dad trusted his life to one in the Phillipines during WWII, so why wouldn't I? If it was good enough then it is good enough now.

[Aguila Blanca]

I dissagree I wouldnt carry my 1911 Range Officer but i would to a colt series 70, 80, or some of Springfields other models.
???

The Range Officer is one of Springfield's better new models. Why in the world would you not trust it for self defense carry? That was the question, remember: "Would you trust your life to a 1911?"

What's untrustworthy about the Range Officer that's not equally untrustworthy about other Springfield 1911s?

[Adamantium]

Threads like these lose their way when people start theorizing about guns that aren't their own. I'd trust my life to my 1911. I wouldn't trust my life to any gun, 1911 or whatever, without putting a few hundred rounds through it.

My 1911 is sitting at about 10k rounds down the tube, is a tightly built competition gun that is on the picky side but I know what it likes and doesn't like so I have plenty of confidence in it. In fact I just shot it at a Steel Challenge match this morning, no jams as expected. I'll probably put 300-400 more rounds through it before I clean it, and it will probably have 3-4 jams in that period. It's not a big deal to me because I know my gun and know before my next competition I will break it apart and clean it again.

[hlds54]

The Range Officer is one of Springfield's better new models. Why in the world would you not trust it for self defense carry? That was the question, remember: "Would you trust your life to a 1911?"

What's untrustworthy about the Range Officer that's not equally untrustworthy about other Springfield 1911s?



The RA is too tight to be reliable I think. if I where to drop it in the sand, dirt, etc. it would not function. Its just too tight. I would trust a standard 1911 though, they are loose enough to be reliable in the sand and dirt. The RA is a great gun, I really like it, shoots great, 300 rounds and no malfunctions so far. But its a competition gun, even springfield says its not for self defense.

[vba]

ABSOLUTELY!!! This reliability stuff is getting way out of hand.

The first 1911's were much tighter than the old war relics after WWII. I have 3 1943 Colt 1911A1 which are in Mint condition. They are pretty damn tight, not Les Baer tight but tight.

I've not shot them but have no doubt they are regular production arms that will shoot with the best of them. People need to get over this everything new is better than the old stuff!

[ksblazer]

I have in the past and still do from time to time. Luckily never had to use it to save my life.

As mentioned if the government felt comfortable enough to issue them to our troops in the past, to trust their lives with. And the men who used them swear by them in general. I believe they would make a great choice if you like the platform.

[Therealkoop]

Depends on the gun honestly. The 1911 is my favorite handgun by far, but I own quite a few and would only carry a couple.

Most of them run well most of the time, and those ones I dont carry. Some of them refuse to die or fail, and I trust them entirely.

My dan wesson heritage is probably the tightest 1911 I own, and even when sandy it hasnt malfunctioned in over (conservative) 10k rounds.

[insomni]

My stepfather trusted his in Vietnam, my grandfather trusted his in Europe. I never had one to trust in Iraq:mad:. I dont think it would have served as the sidearm for the US military for 70ish years if it was unreliable.

I'll soundly stand with it. It is the finest shooting platform I've fired (when maintained correctly). It has enough heft to remind you that it means business, it claps very nicely down onto the target for a second shot. The trigger is gorgeous. The safety is in exactly the right place. The grip is incredible. It is fast on presentation, and target acquisition, as well as accurate. I actually like modern polyframe handguns, and love their ruggedness, reliability, and high magazine capacity. However, there is nothing quite like shooting a 1911. It is a legend for a reason. I would absolutely carry one, chambered, cocked, on safe, ready to roll. No question.

[raimius]

Yes. My DW has proven very reliable.

[5RWill]

Yes. I think the 1911 problems are a bit overblown as well. The one's i see my friends using at our matches have no problems. I believe the problem that arise in 1911s aren't the 1911s itself it's the process of producing one today. Creating them on a mass scale and assembling them from a parts bin, and no hand fitting them like it was in the old days, creates problems. I agree with tunnel rat as well, making them extremely tight in order to generate more accuracy sacrafices reliability IMO, especially when you factor in the accommodation of dirt/fouling/debris. The tightness to an extent goes the same way for rifle actions. This is how i see it anyway. That being said most moderately priced 1911s by reputable manufactures springfield, Colt, DW, etc. run well. I myself like the idea of a custom, or taking a lower based model and using the frame and slide to get what you truly want, while having everything hand fitted.

[seeker_two]

It really depends on the manufacturer. Some 1911's are highly reliable....some are just paperweights waiting to happen. Maybe we need a "Reliable 1911 Checkout Thread" stickied....

[5RWill]

It really depends on the manufacturer. Some 1911's are highly reliable....some are just paperweights waiting to happen. Maybe we need a "Reliable 1911 Checkout Thread" stickied....


I'll second that, sounds like a good idea.

[Skadoosh]

No, I wouldnt.

If I was knowingly going into harm's way and I had a choice between, say, a standard Colt 1911...or a standard Sig P226, I will reach for that Sig everyday of the week. And twice on Sunday.

[torpeau]

I have several, but probably I'd trust only my Dan Wesson and my S&W.

[jmr40]

I cannot claim credit for this, I'm parphrasing someone else's comments on the subject that I read on a forum some months back.

If you were to put a dozen high end 1911's that I'd never shot on a table in front of me along with an untested Glock, and told me I had 5 seconds to pick one to defend myself with before someone came through the door shooting at me, I'd pick the Glock.

If you were to put "my" 1911's on a table along with an untested Glock, I'd pick up one of "my" 1911's that have proven they will work.

[whippoorwill]

Of course!

[Aguila Blanca]

Maybe we need a "Reliable 1911 Checkout Thread" stickied....
No, we don't.

I've had 1911s that choked on one particular brand of ammo but ran 100 percent with anything else.

I've had 1911s that choked with certain magazines but would run 100 percent with any other combination of ammo and magazine.

I bought one used 1911 that wouldn't make it through a full magazine of anything. Factory looked at it, and reported that none of the internals were OEM (even though the seller maintained it had never been fired). Replaced all the "custom" parts with standard (mostly factory) parts and since then it has been completely reliable.

The only real test of reliability is to pick the gun, magazine(s) and ammo you want to use and fire 200/300/400/500 rounds through it ... with NO stoppages.If it stops, fix the problem and start over. Pick whatever number you feel comfortable with, but remember that premium self defense ammo in .45 Auto is running about a dollar a round. So if you think it needs 500 failure-free rounds for you to feel comfortable carrying that weapon -- get ready to burn up $500 worth of ammo.

[jmr40]

pick the gun, magazine(s) and ammo you want to use and fire 200/300/400/500 rounds through it ... with NO stoppages.If it stops, fix the problem and start over.


So I'm supposed to spend $300-$600 on ammo before I should trust my gun. This is just an excuse for shoddy workmanship. If a gun, any gun, does not work right out of the box it is gone. No excuses. I'd never trust it again no matter who worked on it.

[Mello2u]

hlds54

Would you trust your life to a 1911?
Yes.
That is what I have been doing for the last thirty years.

[KyJim]

I often carry a 1911, mostly in cooler weather when clothing permits. I love 1911s but the fact remains there are so many variables in today's 1911s that you'd be crazy not to put 300 rounds or more through one before trusting it. For me, the benefits outweigh the additional cost (plus it's just fun to shoot). I understand why some people won't do this. For them, there are other choices.

[Adamantium]

So I'm supposed to spend $300-$600 on ammo before I should trust my gun. This is just an excuse for shoddy workmanship. If a gun, any gun, does not work right out of the box it is gone. No excuses. I'd never trust it again no matter who worked on it.

My reloads cost me $4 per hundred, so the choice to spend $300-600 on factory ammo is yours alone. But if you are an adult it is your choice if and when you trust something without the approval of some random stranger on the internet.

[arch308]

I am new to the world of 1911 having been a Glock man for 30 years. About 4 months ago I got a wild hair and wanted to see what all the fuss was about with the 1911 platform. I'd read alot about them but had only shot one once, a Colt Delta Elite I believe, and it didn't like the way I held it and twice in one mag I had to reposition my hand to get the grip safety to work. For my money that's worthless and left a bad taste in my mouth.
So I figured I'd try a low priced one and see what all the fuss is about. I bought a used RIA full sized pistol, took it home and with a little help from U-TUBE I field stripped it and cleaned & lubed it. Next trip to the range it came along with a few boxes of my reloads. I was kinda impressed with the feel and trigger. The accuracy was very good and it ate my reloads without a hitch! HMMMMM.
After a few more trips to the range I was getting the urge to splurge. I mean, if this cheap one works & feels so good the higher priced should be even better, right? Well, I setteled on a Kimber Pro CDP II. Beautiful gun and feels perfect in my hand. After the ole clean & lube I grabbed 250 rnds of my reloads and headed to the range.
I've read time & time again about Kimber's being ammo sensitive so was a little aprehensive but the thing ran perfectly. I'm in love.
But to answer the OP's question, yes I would definitly trust my life to either of my 1911s and any other after proving them at the range. They are legend for a reason and I finally understand why.

[ScottieG59]

As many have said, not all 1911s are the same. I used to carry my Springfield Armory 1911A1 quite a bit. It handled most ammo well and never had reliability problems. I always use the best magazines and I take care of them.

I would have no problem carrying it now except for it not being drop safe. When I got it, I wanted something just like what we used in the Army.

I would not want a 1911 with a cast frame or slide. There are many out there made with castings.

A lot if the Army 1911s were not in great shape and some were not serviceable after decades in storage. I thought it was strange we were using pistols made in the 1940s into the 1980s.

Basically, you have to make sure your pistol works with your ammo. There is no easy answer that does not involve testing and building confidence in your choice.

[mavracer]

I wouldn't trust any gun that I haven't checked out. I have several 1911s that I'd trust my life to.

[Slamfire]

I would and do trust my life with double action revolvers.

Autopistols, depends on the autopistol.

M1911’s, well I would only carry it if I had to.

I don’t like carrying cocked and locked as I had the safety bump off in concealed carry. You can say all you want about the thing will not go off because of this and that, but, that’s your decision.

Also, you can bump the safety on, when you want to shoot. Only happened once to me with a Les Baer with a real easy safety, sure surprised me when the pistol would not go off, and it was only target practice, but it happens and happens to others. Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch makes you ride the safety because he has seen “Nationally ranked” individuals bump the safety on at his facility during the training he teaches. I did not see the Top Shot episode, but a Seal bumped his M1911 safety on in one of those competitions.

If I am going to carry a semi auto it will have an operating system like this SIG. A long and heavy trigger pull for the first shot, or you thumb cock it, single action thereafter. No safeties, a decocker.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/SigP220.jpg

[Aguila Blanca]

So I'm supposed to spend $300-$600 on ammo before I should trust my gun. This is just an excuse for shoddy workmanship. If a gun, any gun, does not work right out of the box it is gone. No excuses. I'd never trust it again no matter who worked on it.
No, it's not an excuse for shoddy workmanship. I'm a 1911 guy, and when I see certain high-end 1911 makers telling their customers that they need 500 rounds through the gun to break it in, and that they shouldn't expect it to run reliably before this "break-in" period ... I agree with you completely. First and foremost, a firearm is a weapon, and it should function reliably out of the box. Period.

That's not the same thing as proving that a particular example of a Magnacorp Megablaster X27C is actually completely reliable. Firearms, like every other manufactured item, are built to tolerances. For 1911s, if built to original Ordnance specs, the tolerance is generally .005". (Not plus-or-minus .005" -- that would be a total range of .010". For the 1911, the tolerance for most dimensions has a TOTAL range of .005". Some parts have a smaller range.) Thus, it is possible to have two pistols, both absolutely within spec, yet one is as loose as a goose and the other is as tight as a new shoe. Even if Magnacorp doesn't consider a break-in period necessary, it is nonetheless possible that either tolerance stacking or, yes, a defective part could render a particular gun unsuitable because of reliability issues.

How can you check for reliability? You can't do it by inspecting the parts, not even with a microscope. The only way to prove reliability is to shoot it, and see if it's reliable. This is very different from a "break-in," because with the guns calling for break-in they are expected to jam during the break-in. So, with those, you have to shoot 500 rounds of "break-in" ammo before you even start to shoot however many rounds you consider necessary to prove reliability.

[Striker1]

I think sometimes it is not understood just how many different pistols fall under the general term "1911" with no standard spec adhered to. Try that with any other popular handgun (Glock, HK, SIG...etc) and see how they turn out.

[Denezin]

Yep i definetly would. Saw a glock vs 1911 test on youtube. Said the 1911 gun was a target model. they put it in dirt and guess what? it jammed. Well duh its a tight fitted match grade pistol. Why not break out the msnbc bombs to blow up truck gas tanks why we are at it then say they arent safe.

[BIG P]

Not out of the box,2 out of the last 3 I bought had to have work right out of the box before they would clear a whole clip,stove pipe,fte.

After you work out the bug Hell yeah,not before.

[willmc33]

JMR40 we are eye to eye with that. If a gun requires a "break in" I will move to a gun that doesnt. If a gunn breaks I write it off as a loss and I move on. I just cant trust it after that. I am just in the 1911 game. So far so good.

[Aguila Blanca]

JMR40 we are eye to eye with that. If a gun requires a "break in" I will move to a gun that doesnt. If a gunn breaks I write it off as a loss and I move on. I just cant trust it after that. I am just in the 1911 game. So far so good.
Read my post #33. JMR40 confused "break-in" with proving reliability. They are not the same thing.

Assume you buy a pistol -- any pistol -- that the manufacturer absolutely guarantees does NOT need any break-in. You want to carry it for self defense. How do you satisfy yourself that it is 100 percent reliable with the specific self defense ammo you plan to carry if you don't shoot 'X' number of rounds through it to demonstrate reliability?

[kraigwy]

Would you trust your life to a 1911?

I would and did, but that was with a USGI 1911a1 in SE Asia.

I haven't had to but would, trust my Series 70 Gold Cup.

I wouldn't own a gimmicked up 1911 (or any other gun) that gave me reliability problems wheather I carried it for protection or not.

[dahermit]

It seems latley that people have called the reliabiliy of the 1911 into question. As in its not suitable for carry, defense, etc. That it is only good for competition shooting and to look at. I dissagree I wouldnt carry my 1911 Range Officer but i would to a colt series 70, 80, or some of Springfields other models. What do you all think? Geeezzzze! This thread got off topic. He posed a legitimate question.
On topic: I have owned four Colt 1911's over the years. Three from the seventies, one of current production.

Of the four, only one proved to be reliable out of the box. The problems with them were not readily apparent; the issues were intermittent and I can imagine scenarios where I would have assumed that they were working correctly after a couple of hundred rounds and in those scenarios, the stoppages that occurred could have resulted in misfortune. I have not had such issues with other autos, and certainly not revolvers.
Therefore, IMO the 1911 especially, needs to be rigorously tested (new, out of the box), and examined beyond that required of all other platforms I have owned. That is based on my own personal experiences together with my interest in following the problems and comments of other 1911 owners.
The only question that remains for me is: Are the problems encountered with 1911's the result of poor design (other designs Browning HP, Sigs and Glocks, etc. seem to have fewer problems, fewer moving parts), or lack of quality control at the manufacturer? In my case, it has always a matter of poor quality control in that the parts were out of spec. and once they addressed, reliably was no longer an issue.
And that begs the question: I have learned not to trust a 1911 until I have subjected it to intense scrutiny, but what about the new guy, who will crank a hindered rounds through it and think he is good to go?

[Hunter Customs]

Would you trust your life to a 1911?


Yes, I've done so numerous times and the 1911 is still my primary handgun.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[HKGuns]

This may be the silliest question ever posed. There is no other pistol with the longevity and combat experience of the 1911. It is silly to think you couldn't trust your life to it.

I'm referring to the original full size 1911, not the pint sized alternatives. I don't think are nearly as reliable as the original full sized model. But I would imagine most of them are still good enough on which to trust your life.

[johnwilliamson062]

Like others have pointed out, no one is doubting the GI 1911 with ball ammo. The problem seems to be when companies make them stubby and owners try to shoot HPs out of them.
Then you start to get into questions like:
"Is a HP in such and such caliber better than a ball 45?"
"Is the 9mm HP double stack micro you carry every day better than the 1911 loaded with ball you left at home b/c it wasn't comfortable to conceal?"

Also mixed into this is the fact that there are some "custom" 1911s being sold for very high prices that seem to be less than consistently reliable. No, I don't care if you bought one and have 5,000 rounds through it with no stoppages. That doesn't contradict what I just said in the slightest.

The above is just a summary of internet lore. I don't have a 1911 and although on the long list, one is not on the short list.

[overkill0084]

To one I have been able to vet and verify reliability? Yes. But then, that criteria applies to ANY firearm, regardless of design, I intend to carry or put on nightstand duty.

I currently carry a DW CCO.

[dahermit]

...Like others have pointed out, no one is doubting the GI 1911 with ball ammo. The problem seems to be when companies make them stubby and owners try to shoot HPs out of them...In my case, the problem was neither that I was shooting HP's in them, nor was it that the Colt 1911's I had problems with were "stubbies". It was bad parts, incorrect fitting, or extractor not bent correctly. In each case, things that should have been caught by quality control.

[buckhorn_cortez]

So I'm supposed to spend $300-$600 on ammo before I should trust my gun. This is just an excuse for shoddy workmanship. If a gun, any gun, does not work right out of the box it is gone. No excuses. I'd never trust it again no matter who worked on it.

So, your idea is that you take any gun, put it in your holster and carry it without proving it works? Okay...not very prudent... but, it's your life...

I never understand the problem with running ammunition through a gun. You're SHOOTING. Isn't that why you bought the thing? Look at it as practice. Do double taps, magazine dumps....shoot competition. Get used to using the gun, operating the controls, and making sure it works under all conditions...and this is a problem....how?

Oh...it cost you MONEY....then don't buy the gun in the first place if you don't think you want to spend money on ammunition.

[Hunter Customs]

I think sometimes it is not understood just how many different pistols fall under the general term "1911" with no standard spec adhered to. Try that with any other popular handgun (Glock, HK, SIG...etc) and see how they turn out.

Amen

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[Coltman 77]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've loved Colt 1911's since I bought my first one in 1975.

But that was many years ago and now I tend to agree with Larry Vickers assessment of the 1911, although I prefer HK sidearms to Glocks ;):

The 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta’s primary firearms instructor, Larry Vickers worked in a place that put more than a million rounds a year through 1911s. He’s a founding member of the International Defensive Pistol Association and is a member of the American Pistolsmiths Guild. When he says he’s seen everything that can go wrong with a 1911, I believe him.

“Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

Modern pistol designs have made the 1911 obsolete in it’s role as a combat sidearm. It’s finicky and demands constant attention that a warfighter can’t afford to offer. But when it’s tuned and running well, it’s the most accurate pistol out there.

But the 1911 is not a plug-and-play platform. Even a $2,000 semi-custom 1911 likely will need a pricey trip to a gunsmith for tweaking. Changing out all but the simplest parts will demand expert hand filing and fitting.

“I’ve had guys sell their pistols after taking my 1911 armoring class because they realized the gun just wasn’t for them,” Vickers says.

Link to full article: http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/06/08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/

[SilentHitz]

Wow, you mean I've been carrying a untrustworthy gun for 40 years????? I'm lucky to be alive I guess. LOL

[Coltman 77]

Draw your own conclusions from my post SilentHitz.

I posted Larry Vicker's opinion for everyone's consideration. ;)

Take a deep breath, relax and re-read my post. ;)

[5RWill]

I understand the quote by Larry but i still don't consider it obsolete, JMO. It might require more maintenance but that doesn't necessarily make it unreliable, the m9 isn't the most reliable/maintenance free sidearm IIRC? I agree 100% with the fact that you might buy a 1911 and it need tuning. There in lies the problem of mass producing a 1911 and assembling versus hand fitting, filing, assuring proper fit, etc. again JMO. Just seems these days you really have to pay for a 1911 that's reliable, and i see where that is a downfall to everyone, when you can pick up a glock for 650$

[Onward Allusion]

Untested by me - maybe, but only if it rattled.

I would trust most pistols if I personally had put a few hundred rounds through it w/o any issues.

BTW, only an idiot would trust a gun with their life strictly on a make/model basis.

[drail]

I have sold, repaired, customized and competed with 1911s for a number of years. I love to shoot them. It is truly one of the greatest designs we have. It is also become one of the most mass produced pistols around. Unfortunately we have so many makers building to a price point with very loose specs and poor quality control. I have seen more than a few 1911s fail in competition. I can still remember watching Rob Leatham's 1911 choke in a big money match. The look on his face was priceless. I am sure that no expense was spared on his gun. A 1911 "can" be built and tuned until it will cycle rounds reliably to the point that you will tire of shooting it before it fails but like any magazine fed gun there are so many little things that can cause it to fail. My carry gun? A S&W 696 L frame .44 Spl. revolver. I have several 1911s I would "almost" trust my life to but I simply have more faith in a revolver for serious business use.

[Tom Servo]

I think Mr. Vickers was being just a bit histrionic, but I do agree to some extent.

If I'm handed a 1911, I'm tearing it down, working out any rough spots, and running it through a pretty long breakdown with the ammo I plan on using with it.

I'm not nearly that anal about other service pistols.

[buckhorn_cortez]

Shooting action pistol type events you see every type of gun used jam. One shooter uses nothing but Glocks - he's had feed problems during matches as well as running trouble free. My wife shoots an XDm - it refused to reset the trigger this past weekend because it got dirt wedged between the trigger transfer bar and the frame.

The majority of people where I shoot use 2011 style guns, and generally run the matches trouble free. I have SIGS, HKs, and 1911s - if you shoot enough - you will have a problem. The worst malfunction I ever had was with a S&W model 25-5 - so I'm not naive enough to believe revolvers always run 100% either.

The 1911 is a 100 year old design. It doesn't work like modern pistols designed for assembly line manufacture. If you don't want to put the work in to make a 1911 run reliably - don't get one. If you have a correctly built gun, run good magazines, and do very simple things in preventive maintenance - you can run as trouble free as any other design. You just have to accept going in - they take more work to run reliably.

[dahermit]

The 1911 is a 100 year old design. It doesn't work like modern pistols designed for assembly line manufacture. If you don't want to put the work in to make a 1911 run reliably - don't get one. If you have a correctly built gun, run good magazines, and do very simple things in preventive maintenance - you can run as trouble free as any other design. You just have to accept going in - they take more work to run reliably. Egg-zactly! A revolver can leave the factory rougher than a cob (I have an examples of those, all S&W's), and you can still get them to shoot, albeit with excessive force on double-action trigger. But if it is a 1911 (my Colt's), that went out the door with the same lack of attention to detail, you have stoppages and of course, "break-in periods".

[Hunter Customs]

I put no stock at all in anything Larry Vickers has to say.

In my opinion he changes horses faster then the Pony Express.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[FJ4ZROX]

Yes...my first and ONLY handgun was a BHP...then moved to a Kimber Pro Carry in 1999 and it's been my main CCW weapon and "night stand gun" since. I have an assortment of others than get occasional use, but the 1911 is the platform I tend to prefer.

[Sarge]

Yes. As with anything else, it depends on the gun and the gun is going to have to prove itself before I'll trust it. The first Glock 22 I was issued wouldn't get through a full magazine w/o choking at least twice. Turned out to be that particular magazine so it was an easy fix.

PS- I'm with you on Vickers, Bob.

[Kreyzhorse]

I've never had a single FTF or FTE with my Springfield TRP 1911. The gun is reliable and more accurate than I am and have no issue trusting my life to it. It has handled every type of ammo I've fed it without fail.

[Ace_Breaker]

I carried one in the Marines infantry. I've owned several and been able to fire numerous highly customized and factory models. I've seen probably more failures with 1911 models than any other, ok, maybe not Tauri! I know you can completely modify one to suit your needs at a cost. But to me it's not worth it when Hk, Glock, and Sig make fantastic shooting 45's that work out of the box. It's as simple as that. My answer would be "no" as a general rule. I base that on personal experiences. I'm sure there are some 100% perfectly running 1911's out there. If I had one that ran that way I'd consider it, but I've never owned one that didn't fail. For sentiment I love the 1911 but that's about it.

[Striker1]

The one you have either works or it doesn't.

If it does, I have no problem carrying it...and that goes for any handgun regardless of model or brand name.

[HKGuns]

Funny I put another 150 flawless rounds of 230gr ball through my $350 RIA just last weekend. Go figure.

http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v26/p677346764-5.jpg

[tipoc]

If you take the time to read the article that was linked to above...

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/06/08/read-this-before-you-buy-your-first-1911/

I think you'll see what I saw, that the author of the article is only slightly familiar with the 1911 and that Vickers is selectively quoted. You can also note that no where does Vickers say that he would not carry a 1911 or not trust one as a self defense tool.

Vickers does say that if you are not willing to put time into learning the gun it may be best to look elsewhere. It also looks like what he considers a good 1911 (a good base gun with at least $1,000 of aftermarket work on it) may be a bit different from the opinion of many, many other shooters of 1911s.

Jeff Cooper said many times that all a 1911 needed to be an outstanding self defense gun was a good trigger job, sights that were useful and could be seen at speed, and that it be reliable. Nowdays those things are usually gotten off the shelf or for less than a grand of a gunsmiths work.

tipoc

[edfrompa]

Yes I would and I have.

[SA Omega]

I have for 49 years.

[mavracer]

A gunsmith saying a 1911 needs a grand worth of gunsmithing to be reliable.
Sounds kinda like the American gem society saying you should spend 3 months salery on a diamond :rolleyes:

I think every gun should have my personal $500 check out done PM me for instructions on where to send the check.

[BRE346]

The design of that piece was fought and argued over for several years and the Army insisted that reliability was a criterion.

It is safe to say that the 1911 was trusted by millions over the years.

Unreliability begins when it is disassembled for 'improvement'.

My 1911 works fine and I'm not going to presume I can make it any better.

[Skadoosh]

Just as an aside, these are very interesting posts on another forum regarding 1911 magazines and their design, evolution and how they intergrate into the overall reliability of the 1911 platform. Fairly quick reading.

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?431-1911-Magazine-Analysis-(part-1-of-3)

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?55461-1911-Magazine-Analysis-Part-2

(part 3 is down the page title "ammo".)

[Water-Man]

Randomly? No.

Mine? Yes, with FMJ.

[tipoc]

A gunsmith saying a 1911 needs a grand worth of gunsmithing to be reliable.
Sounds kinda like the American gem society saying you should spend 3 months salery on a diamond

I saw that too.

tipoc

[1911austin]

Yes sir!

[tahunua001]

the reliability of the 1911 has not just recently been called into question. it's been questioned ever since glocks uber bullet count torture test was conducted and the military replaced it with the M9(good choice to replace but bad gun to replace it with IMHO). the 1911 was a thing of beauty back in 1914 when many of the people issued them had never seen a gun that could fire more than 6 rounds and you didn't even have to cock the hammer after every shot. now they are more expensive than plastic guns, require much more custom fittings, many of the repairs have to be done at the factory or by an experienced gunsmith, they have the worst ammo capacity of any other semi auto handgun(unless you start getting into the pocket 45 genre), a lot of them can't feed hollow points, and they generally have to be cleaned and drowned in lube after every couple hundred rounds or they become jammomatics.

now with all that said, despite needing a good modernization to compete with the modern handguns out there, I would still trust my life to a 1911. your concealed carry/home defense gun should always be cleaned to begin with so the fouling issues should be no brainer. 45 ball ammo is plenty deadly to bad guy rifling through the knick knacks. in a self defense situation you are only going to get 1 or 2 good shots off with probably a 4 shot max so the 7 or 8 round capacity of a 1911 is more than enough.

so for a front lines fighter, no the 1911 is not the latest and greatest and far from the best choice but for a nightstand gun or concealed carry(for the guys who have figured out how) they are just fine.

[WVsig]

I put no stock at all in anything Larry Vickers has to say.

In my opinion he changes horses faster then the Pony Express.


Can I get an AMEN!!!

[tahunua001]

Amen,
usually when someone quotes larry vickers I make sure to add whatever they are toting to my never buy list :D

[presspics]

I would and have trusted a 1911. As long as I get to go through it and make sure everything is properly tuned and undamaged...I LOVE the 1911!! Never had a problem with one that I couldn't fix.

[skoro]

Yep.

Carried one about a century ago when I was in the military.

They're good.

[Coltman 77]

Kreyzhorse:

I've never had a single FTF or FTE with my Springfield TRP 1911. The gun is reliable and more accurate than I am and have no issue trusting my life to it. It has handled every type of ammo I've fed it without fail.

Glad to read that, the TRP is a fine handgun. :)

Exactly how many total rounds have you put through it?

What types of fmj and jhp ammo will it feed flawlessly, if you don't mind my asking?

[Merad]

I imagine many will disagree with me, but I feel like a lot of what is being done with 1911s today is waaay beyond the original design intentions. Feeding JHP rounds, using 3.5" barrels, made into precision target pistols with ultra tight tolerances, etc...

There's nothing wrong with any of that, but reliability can suffer as a trade-off. Sure you can find 1911s that can be tested and proven reliable, but any random 1911 has to be considered a question mark.

As someone else said, if I have to choose a "strange" gun then my first choice will be a Glock.

[Blue Duck]

I have been shooting 1911's for over 30yrs, and I shot competition a lot in the 80's and 90's with the 1911. I have owned several 1911's, and the ones that I own, yes I would trust my life to them, about as much as any other gun.

My 1911's are all reliable, and will shoot hundreds of rounds without a failure if the ammo is good, and in competition, and practice, my 1911's would shoot for hundreds of rounds between cleanings. There is something to be said for a slightly loose slide if you don't clean a gun, much and shoot grungy handloads which I did a lot.

However, I have also seen several 1911's that were not reliable, but there was usually a reason that could be found, like a bad or poorly adjusted extractor, or on ocasion the feed ramp was rough or the chamber need a bit of a throat job. Sometimes springs were not right, but many times the problem was that someone had changed out some parts and did a poor job of installation, or the gun had a cheap or bad magazine.

Another problem is the factories have been trying to fix problems with the 1911 that never needed fixing, which led to stupid modifications like series 80 firing pin safetys, and the Kimber version, espacally the Kimber version, and to compound it they have too many MIM parts and some do break with use.

But a good 1911 that's right is a wonderful piece of machinery, and very reliable. I have carried one a lot for CCW, and my favorite for carry is a Springfield 4 inch lightweight GI model, however, I had to get rid of that darned lockable mainspring housing, now it's my favorite carry gun.

I also own a few Glocks and they have been very reliable, but I have shot some other people's Glocks that were very dirty and had them jam, so my thought is, know your gun. However, if I had to pick a new handgun off of the rack, load it, trust my life to it, I would probably choose a Glock 17 or 22 over an untested 1911.

A good revolver can usually be trusted, but I have seen plenty of malfuctions with revolvers too, they are not foolproof, and many times I have seen one come from the factory with a defect of somekind that rendered them unreliable, until fixed. Plus, it only takes one grain of powder under the extractor of a revolver to lock it up sometimes, I have seen it happen.

Last word, I am not and have never been much of a plastic gun fan, but do own a few Glocks, because my experiences have been about the best with them out of the box, compared to even Ruger Singleaction revolvers, believe it or not. It's not really the design, as much as quality control.

[10mm4ever]

Absolutely. I think the closer you get to a true mil spec, the better. My old Remington rand has never skipped a beat and it's all milled/forged steel and scary accurate!

[hogwiley]

I wouldnt use a 1911 as a carry pistol simply because there are lighter, more concealable, more reliable, higher capacity, user friendly options out there that are a LOT cheaper.

They may not be as pretty or fun to shoot, but they are more effective and easier to carry.

[Blue Duck]

I still carry my Springfield Lightweight 4 inch gun 1911, because for me, I have found it to be easier to carry then the fatter Glocks, or even a small revolver, however sometimes I will go to a .380 auto, when I just can't or don't want to carry anything bigger, but I don't want to carry a 5 inch steel 1911 because it's too heavy, however even a big 5 inch 1911 can be concealed pretty easy, because they are not that thick, compared to many Johnny come lately guns.

There's a lot of new guns out there, that may be really good, but I am also a little scared of them as I see several that are not very reliable, and I don't have much luck sending stuff back to the factory. I may have to try a small 9mm one of these days, but just haven't gotten arround to it.

[Wyosmith]

Yes I would!
Yes I have, and I would again.

[Stringfellow]

I think we should give Colt some more time to work out the kinks in the design before we rush to judgment.

[marklyftogt]

Give me a S&W revolver instead anytime. You absolutely know it is going to work. That said...the 1911 is an awesome gun.

[sonick808]

as long as I'd put the carry cartridge through the carry pistol in advance, then absolutely yes. This goes for any carry pistol design of course.

[sonick808]

I dunno about revolvers being foolproof, it only takes a small mistake in the elevator/cylinder stop not disengaging, or dropping below the frame and going askew and jamming, or the hand slipping, or or or..

OK yeah they're still probably more reliable, but not infallible

[Hunter Customs]

I think we should give Colt some more time to work out the kinks in the design before we rush to judgment.

The design is not the problem, any faults the 1911 has today is in the manufacturing.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[Aguila Blanca]

I think we should give Colt some more time to work out the kinks in the design before we rush to judgment.
The design is not the problem, any faults the 1911 has today is in the manufacturing.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Bob is entirely correct. To be more specific, the problem today is people and companies who think they can outsmart John Moses Browning and Colt, who spent years designing the M1911 before it was finally accepted by the Ordnance Department. Anyone who thinks the 1911 is unreliable by design should read the history of the design, and especially the criteria of the final acceptance test. 6,000 rounds with no failures. Dunked in mud, wiped off, and fired -- no failures. Frozen in ice and fired -- no failures.

Case in point: SIG Arms. When SIG decided to throw their corporate hat into the 1911 ring, they proudly (arrogantly?) announced that THEY were going to revolutionize the production of 1911s; they were going to make them better than anyone else had ever made them before. They were so cocky about it that they named their first 1911s "Revolution."

So how well did they succeed in outsmarting John Moses Browning? They did so well that less than a year after starting sales they completely shut down production for over six months while they completely retooled their production setup. They cancelled contracts with major parts suppliers, and blamed them for the problems. Curiously, the frames and slides were originally supplied by Caspian Arms, made to SIG's specifications. Caspian went on to sell the left-over production as slide & frame kits, and I have not heard of anybody who built a pistol from one of these sets having problems. Similarly, the original barrels were from Storm Lake, again made to SIG's specifications. Storm lake sold off the left-over SIG barrels to EGW in Pennsylvania, who sold them to individual buyers. Again, the people who used those barrels in their own project guns do not appear (with one known exception, which was entirely due to an amateur builder's failure to fit the barrel to the frame properly) to have encountered problems.

Meanwhile, SIG still had problems, and had to revamp their production yet again. The 1911s SIG is selling today are either their third or fourth generation, and only now are they achieving a level of reliability that you can buy in a Rock Island for $500.

Color me silly, but I think it's downright dumb to for anyone to presume that they can outsmart an acknowledged genius.

[rab]

Hmmmm. I don't know. Lets see. Two World Wars, Korea, Nam, Lebanon, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador and I'm sure there must have been a few for Sandbox I & II. Oh, and most of the world stole/copied some. Let alone being the most recognizable of any weapon! When other top-notch companies(H&K SIG, etc..) divert time and materials, away from their top shelf, traditional products, I mean real winners, just to get into the 1911 market, there isn't much left to say. American made. Just like a Harley! That old, clunky, slow dinosaur is still here, and doing it's duty in the face of computer printed, molded, plastic guns.
Only after it proves to be good gun at the range.....
Then I'll trust it.

[NJgunowner]

My Delta Elite is one of my night stand guns. I don't leave in there often though, I'm afraid if I had to use it the cops here in NJ would confiscate it for god knows how long for the "investigation". I'm way to fond of it to let that happen, so my P226 gets the majority of duty there.

Both my 1911's (delta, Sprinfield loaded) run perfectly.

[Burner]

(H&K SIG, etc..) divert time and materials, away from their top shelf, traditional products, I mean real winners, just to get into the 1911 market

Yes... the famous HK 1911...:rolleyes:

[surjimmy]

I didn't read all the post here, so if this was said before.....Well it's worth saying again......100's of 1,000's of dead Comies can't be wrong.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_4114.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_4104-1.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_2980.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_1933.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/surjimmy/IMG_1965.jpg

[RickB]

If you were to put a dozen high end 1911's that I'd never shot on a table in front of me along with an untested Glock, and told me I had 5 seconds to pick one to defend myself with before someone came through the door shooting at me, I'd pick the Glock.

If you were to put "my" 1911's on a table along with an untested Glock, I'd pick up one of "my" 1911's that have proven they will work.

I'd take MY 1911(s) over a table-full of anything. I don't think it's necessarity the case that "high end" 1911s are more reliable than mill-run examples from some manufacturers. I've shot a few Glocks, and there's no magic there, but every Glock is made by Glock, while a lot of "1911s" are made in Bubba's garage. If that "Glock" were made out of recycled pop bottles in a third-world auto repair shop, would you have confidence in it, just because it looked like a Glock?

[Hardcase]

I wouldn't trust my life to "any" gun. I'd trust my life to "my" gun. My go-to gun happens to be a completely stock Springfield Milspec 1911, but I have complete faith in several others to be completely reliable in a life or death situation.

[orionengnr]

Would I? Yes.
Do I? Every day. :)

[Stringfellow]

Quote:
I think we should give Colt some more time to work out the kinks in the design before we rush to judgment.

Folks, that was sarcasm. Colt has in fact had a few years to work out the kinks in the design.

[seeker_two]

I don't know.....they're still getting the kinks out of the SAA....

[trkkshotbry]

My grandpa trusted his life to a 1911 in the Pacific, Dad did it again in SE Asia, I see no reason why I shouldn't carry on the tradition.

[Burner]

My grandpa trusted his life to a 1911 in the Pacific, Dad did it again in SE Asia, I see no reason why I shouldn't carry on the tradition.
Pretty much this. There's nothing inherently unreliable about the design, just manufacturers that make unreliable weapons.

I'm sure Glock 17 or Sig 226 design would have a questionable reputation for reliability too if suddenly a few dozen manufacturers hit the scene with an exact clone, but it wouldn't make the design a bad one.

[jmstr]

I have four. I'd trust my life to any of them, but would only choose 3 of them, as the fourth is a 3# trigger race gun.

I would not want to stake my life on any pistol I hadn't tested. But I would trust my life to my 1911s.

sent ftom tapatalk on Evo3G

[GUAMY-70]

Yes, yes, yes. Marines still use them today as they do the job, period.

They were made to use in combat. Only gun to successfully pass all the army torture tests.. That was a long time ago.

[Glock_fan]

Not yet, but I hope to soon. I have a Springfield Operator that I bought new and have only put 300 rounds through it. I have had some FTE issues to the point that the slide crushes the spent casing against the front of the breech. It usually happens to the last round in the mag. I don't think it's the magazines because I'm using the factory mags and I bought a Kimber Kim-pro Tac-mag I think that its just the recoil spring that needs to be broken in a little bit more, which means Im going to have to go shooting more....dang!:D So like I said I wouldn't trust mine just yet, but I'm looking forward to the day when I can.

[Sgt Pepper]

Yes

[Tactical Jackalope]

Can't wait till my SIG 1911 XO gets in! :) I'm waiting for that like patience on a monument.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[ripnbst]

I REALLY don't think you could make a blanket statement about 1911's as being unreliable. 1911's are made by tons of different companies and vary wildly in quality.

[NWCP]

I wouldn't be carrying a piece that I didn't have complete faith in my ability to use it and depend on it's ability to do the job. In the past I carried a 1991A1 Compact and never had any hesitation about it being able to do the job. I have since been carrying an HK45C. The Colt worked well enough however the HK simply works better, is lighter and has DA/SA capability. It's close enough in design, feel and operation to the old Colt that changing over was a piece of cake. It's more accurate and has been totally dependable. I will probably carry the HK until I'm worm dirt and then my son will inherit the gun. Of all the pistols I own it happens to be his favorite as well. He currently carries a full size HK USP 9mm that has served him well so whether he chooses to continue carrying the 9, which has been very reliable nd is a higher capacity weapon, or goes with my .45C remains to be seen. I won't be around to see what he does, but he couldn't go wrong with either. JMHO

[Skimp]

The 1911 has blown off the heads of many <an enemy>...

[4V50 Gary]

Yes. Test the gun with the ammunition that it will be used in it. Keep it clean and function check it after cleaning and reassembly. That builds confidence in the user toward the gun.

[Dashunde]

I just sold one that was pretty darn good in every respect, except absolute reliablity - it hiccuped now an then, just enough to get replaced with a Glock 21 for nightstand duty.

However...
Near the top of my very short list of pistols to buy is a Dan Wesson Valor.
If the DW proves out I have no problems with sticking it in my nightstand and dropping that G21 into my trucks center console. :D

In the end 1911's are treated like any other gun - if it works its trusted, if not its gone.

[MonsterB]

I have a Springfield GI in the safe and a Glock23 on the nightstand, if that answers your question. ;)

[Captain H]

1911s are made by alot of different companies. Buy one from a good company like Colt, S&W, Dan Wesson, Sig, Springfield Armory to name a few, and you will have just as reliable of a handgun as a Beretta. IMO. Also stay in the $750 or higher price range, IMO, to get a quality peice.

If Glock clones were made by 12 different companies of varying quality aimed at different demographics, there would be a thread just like this one asking about their reliability.

It is not a question of "are 1911s reliable?" it is a question of are cheap 1911s reliable?"

IMO buy a Colt or SpringField Armory and you can trust it. I bought five 1911s in the last six months and two were sent back to the factory due to QC problems and flaws in function. They were the 1911s at the $500 price point. Inside and out, my Colts are the best made production 1911s right now. I have compared them to alot of makes. I learned that you get what you pay for in these guns.

[Locoweed]

Back in the day when the 1911A1 was the military service pistol I carried one (always a loose as a goose Remington Rand) on and off for 20 years as an Army MP and yes I trusted my life with it. The only problems we ever had was with the magazines which sometimes cracked at the back of the lips so we always inspected them at time of issue.

[Atlshaun]

No doubt about it

[ehbj47]

I carried a 1911A1 Ithaca in Vietnam... but the Springfield Champion has a ramped barrel and works great.

[bikerbill]

My nightstand gun for many years has been a Springfield Loaded 1911 ... accurate, has never failed in any way ... I count on it to protect myself and my wife every day of the year ...

[hemiram]

No, I wouldn't. I take that back. If it was one of the old GI ones that rattle, and I personally shot a couple of hundred rounds through it, I might. But a new one, especially one of the ones that have been changed from the original design, no way. I'm a former owner and I am totally immune to the appeal of a 1911, unless it's to look at a friend's and shake my head when he tells me how much it costs. It sure is pretty..expensive. For what a mid level 1911 costs, I can buy a couple of guns that I would trust my life to, such as my $425 S&W 4506.

[TBT]

I know I trust “my 1911”. Don’t really care about anyone else’s 1911.

If buying from a reputable manufacturer like S&W, SIG, Springfield Armory, etc. I wouldn’t expect anything less than a reliable gun. If buying from a less than stellar manufacturer I think there is still a decent chance of getting a reliable gun. Metro Arms and RIA make some pretty good 1911’s. Even Taurus makes a good gun once in a while by accident.

[USMCGrunt]

Personally, I carry no firearm that I have not shot enough to declare it reliable enough to bet my life on and that's including 1911s, Glocks, H&Ks or anything else out there. This also gives me the chance to get past the break-in period, zero it in (or learn where to adjust my aim) and most importantly, become familiar with it.
Now as for 1911s in particular, there are so many makers making so many different models in various lengths and assorted doo-dads tacked on them that saying 1911s are not reliable is a blanket statement. Sure, some of your match grade and race guns built for accuracy, some of the stubby designs and the ones built so cheaply that they looks like they were banged out by a retarded Afghan with a rock and screwdriver as his only tools are likely to have functional issues. However, when you look at Commander length and Government length 1911s that were built with a little looser tolerances by somebody that knows what they are doing, I would say they are no less reliable than any other design.

[Tactical Jackalope]

I like you ^^^^^ I like you a lot.

Semper Fi.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Powderman]

Good question.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc9/jjawa3/MVC-009F.jpg

Yes...I believe I would--and do.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Good question.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc9/jjawa3/MVC-009F.jpg

Yes...I believe I would--and do.

Is that a Colt I see there? Nice pic! Love it :D

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Powderman]

Why, yes it is.

I love the horsey.....:D

[BGutzman]

The 1911 is a true born and bread combat pistol so the question IMHO is foolish.... If you have a solid, reliable 1911 then I dont see what the problem is.. Many very popular brands have no real history and tradition and people carry them... So why not 100 years of history.

That said you get what you pay for in a 1911 or any other gun...

Do I carry a 1911.. no.. Would I? Sure

[bamiller]

Until they come up with a way I can rationally conceal carry a shotgun with combination buckshot/birdshot loads I have and will continue to trust my life to a 1911.

[745SW]

Nope. I’ve had three Colt Gold Cups and now it’s down to only one. Broke many a magazine by fracturing the weld at the floor plate, ammo would suddenly be on the ground. Played with the extractor by bending it and taking a Dremel to it. Dremeled the two-piece feed ramp too.:( I believe the issue is the design not workmanship or material. I’ve had Colt Gold Cups that were non symmetrical in terms of machining of the flat area of the dust cover that was obvious with the naked eye comparing right to left sides of the pistol. Even the Phyton I have has non-symmetry at the trigger guard, again comparing right to left sides. Aesthetics only perhaps but I don’t like it.

Issues with the 1911 date back to at least Jeff Cooper’s time when he pointed out when the staked plunger tube becomes unglued.:eek: The plunger tube houses the spring loaded pins for the takedown lever and safety located at the top of the left grip panel.

My choice for a 45ACP is the S&W 745. Never had a need or desire to take a Dremel to any of my 745’s. As some would say my S&W’s would eat virtually anything and not complain/hiccup. Like many auto-loaders the 745 appears to take after the Browning Hi-Power with no barrel bushing, plunger tube or welded magazine floor plate.

Personally I group the 1911 with P-08 Luger, aesthetically appealing and interesting design but not very practical for actual use.:)

Edit:
Something’s I should have mentioned or clarified. I have taken a Dremel to my some of my 745’s not because of reliability issues but because of preference. Some material at the top of the trigger where it engages the trigger bar is removed to shorten the free play of the trigger, this free play is the movement of the trigger before the trigger actually moves the sear. This usually requires a fair amount of material removal. Another area of slight material removal is at the hammer spur because of its sharp edges. I only used the emery embedded rubber wheel of the Dremel manually without the power tool of the Dremel.

The trigger of the 745 is unusual it that it has absolutely no interaction with the safety on the slide. The hammer can be dropped with the safety on, kinda funky and something to keep in mind. Trigger bar is dual sided giving no feel of flex at all. Trigger has two adjustments, backlash adjustment screw is mounted on the frame and is clearly visible. Trigger position screw is within the frame out of view, it positions the trigger relative to the frame or trigger guard. Free play has no adjustment is the reason for the above material removal, this adjustment, obviously, is a one-way street. Remove too much and the trigger needs to be replaced. I’m conservative by keeping reliability in mind.

Spring rates are all stock. The hammer of the 745 appears to have less mass than a 1911 giving it a fast lock time and because of this I would reduce the main spring (hammer spring) little if at all.

Many later design pistols require a lot of trigger free play because it’s needed to move the firing pin block/lock.

The 1911 are a very interesting platform from its temperamental ness to the shear variation of aftermarket magazine designs and accessories. It has been a learning experience.

[Sarge]

Nope. I’ve had three Colt Gold Cups and now it’s down to only one. Broke many a magazine by fracturing the weld at the floor plate, ammo would suddenly be on the ground. Played with the extractor by bending it and taking a Dremel to it. Dremeled the two-piece feed ramp too. I believe the issue is the design not workmanship or material.

I work on 1911's. I find that the issue in many cases is people taking Dremels to critical components (http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/a-resurrected-as-in-back-from-the-dead-rock-island-1911a1/), etc. When IPSC became popular, I saw some mags fail because they were simply junk or from slamming mags in too hard. The 1911 does require excellent magazines to run well with SWC's or JHP's. Which mags are 'excellent' is probably another topic, but the CMC Powermag is the best 8 round mag I've found.

[dos0711]

Saving lives since 1911...

[mordis]

I had a springfield 1911a1 millspec that gave me nothing but trouble. FT fire and light primer strikes were common.. Ontop of that they made the design of the fraking firing pin unique so MFing mill-spec firingpins from a former military pistol would not work in it... I never was able to get it working and traded it off.

So ya, Im hesitant to try the 1911 coolaid again.. People keep saying how there reliable, prove it.. I can not take parts from 1 1911 and transfere them to another, but i can take 2 xds or 2 glocks apart and 100% of the parts are interchangeable with no fitting or filing.

If it want a Good reliable single action that is accurate for target practice or competition then im going with the premium competition lineup from EAA or CZ. Proven guns from both manufactures.

[Powderman]

1. The original spec firing pin is known as a "series 70" pin. Newer 1911's have a clearance cut for the firing pin safety.
2. If you had a problem with the firing pin or light strikes, you should have called Springfield Armory. They have repaired an M1A for me--twice--and I am not the original owner. At Camp Perry they rebuilt a troublesome lower frame to a 1911 for me and only charged me $10.00--I was not the original owner, and it wasn't even a Springfield Armory gun! They have the best customer service that I have ever encountered.

More than likely it was the firing pin block that was mis-sized. The 1911 has the strongest firing pin strike of any handgun out there--the thing will cap off a brick if you can get it to chamber.

As far as switching parts between pistols, remember one thing--Drop in parts sometimes do NOT simply drop in.

[Microgunner]

My brother shot an armed robber with his Colt Government.
Worked just fine when needed.

[dsk]

A 1911 that has been assembled correctly will be just as reliable as any other modern firearm. One that's been the victim of corner cutting or poorly thought-out design changes may not be. Unfortunately there are a lot from the latter category out there.

[Auto426]

1. The original spec firing pin is known as a "series 70" pin. Newer 1911's have a clearance cut for the firing pin safety.

Only 1911's that have A firing pin safety use a modified firing pin.

Springfield Armory doesn't use a firing pin safety, they use a lightweight .38 Super sized firing pin in combination with a heavier than stock firing pin spring to pass drop tests in order to be sold in places like California.

I can not take parts from 1 1911 and transfere them to another, but i can take 2 xds or 2 glocks apart and 100% of the parts are interchangeable with no fitting or filing.

You can't take parts from an XD and stick them in a Glock either. Not every manufacturer's 1911 is exactly the same as every other manufacturer's 1911. If you had two Springfields you could have swapped firing pins, or you could have just used the lifetime warranty on a malfunctioning handgun.

[fastbolt]

I own (5) 1911 pistols that are as optimally reliable as any of my other semiauto pistols.

A couple of them (older Colts) required some minor attention before they reached that point, but then the state-of-the-art for magazines and hollowpoint ammunition that would reliably feed in 1911's was less well developed in the 70's & 80's.

My last couple of 1911's (Colt XSE Government & SW1911SC 5") have reliably fed, fired, extracted & ejected using a variety of hollowpoint ammunition (and a few different magazine designs) from the very first magazine load. They've continued to do so for several years.

I just helped another instructor become familiar with his first 1911-syle pistol, a 5" SW1911 Enhanced Model, the other day. It fed our current duty hollowpoint (230gr BJHP/Golden Sabre) just fine. It exhibited optimal reliability, very good practical accuracy and had a surprisingly nice stock trigger. He was using the OEM 8-rd magazines supplied with the gun, some Wolff (ACT-Mag) 7-rd magazines and a couple of McCormick Powermags. I wouldn't change anything about it before carrying it as an off-duty & retirement weapon. Nice.

[LockedBreech]

A $1,500+ 1911, proven through a lot of rounds, sure.

Off the shelf/out of the box? No, I would not. Not even a Wilson.

[Shadi Khalil]

I don't trust my life to anything with a manual safety. It has nothing to do with the guns and everything to do with how I'm trained. If I bought a 1911 today it would be quite a while before I would feel comfortable carrying it.

As for 1911's, I think they are dependable for self defense in the 4 inch and up barrel lengths. I have not owned a 1911 in a while but the next time I buy one, I'll go in expecting it might need a little tweaking to run the way I like. That's just been my experience with the mid price ranged 1911's. I know there are plenty of people that get RIA's that run like revolvers out of the box and Kimbers that don't miss a beat. However, if I was buying either, I'd expect to at least have to buy different mags or hand the feed ramp polished. That's just been my experience and seems to be widely accepted among the 1911 community. Maybe I'm wrong about that last part..

Does that make the 1911 unreliable in my eyes? No. Because that certainly can't be applied to every 1911 out there and is solely based on my opinion and what I read. I personally like to do little more than clean a new gun before I hit the range, but I'm also a bit lazy and not the least bit mechanically inclined. The next time I do buy a 1911, I plan to do it right and look for a DW or Colt.

[Striker1]

I don't trust my life to anything with a manual safety.

That apply to long guns as well?

[Shadi Khalil]

That apply to long guns as well?

That's a good catch striker.

The answer is no. Every rifle I've ever owned has a manual safety so going for the safety on a rifle is instinctual for me. However, with handguns it's always almost been DA revolvers or autos.

[Striker1]

I hear ya! No sense trying to undo years of muscle memory if you don't have to.

[5RWill]

I've wondered myself if starting out with my striker fired guns with no safety if the 1911 safety will give me issues.

[zombieslayer]

I trust all of my guns. Otherwise they'd be gone. My most often carried gun is a .357 snub. But there's a loaded Dan Wesson Vbob ready in my nightsatand.

[tipoc]

The real question is "Do you trust yourself to operate a firearm?" or "Do I trust myself to operate a particular handgun?". It is after all a person who does the shooting and operates the weapon. The person's skills and knowledge determine the outcome.

"A mans' got to know his limitations", the fictional Harry Callahan once said. If you want to run guns you should take the time to learn. If you don't know how to run a particular gun, like a 1911 or an M9, and you want to run them, take the time to learn or deal with something else.

When a fella says "1911s are dangerous and antiquated because I might forget to disengage the thumb safety," he's making more of a statement about himself than the gun.

tipoc

[mavracer]

I can not take parts from 1 1911 and transfere them to another, but i can take 2 xds or 2 glocks apart and 100% of the parts are interchangeable with no fitting or filing.
Um I don't think a Glock slide will work on a XD;)

[745SW]

Nope again.:eek: I have the desire to stir the pot some.:D The 1911 is a classic, meaning there is no comparatively continual refinement. There have been attempts like the collet type bushing of the Colt series 70 Gold Cup and Government models. Kimber changed to an external extractor. Neither of these changes remain, the makers reverted back to the previous designs. The scope of the aftermarket is second to non-except perhaps Glock.

Generally the best magazines for a pistol are OEM (original equipment manufacturer), that’s true with Glock and virtually everyone else but not the 1911. Non-OEM, aftermarket, magazines are cheaper and/or have easier availability and usually inferior build and performance but not the 1911. Parts are drop-in with little or no fitting but not the barrel bushing of the 1911.

Glock’s are, comparatively a pistol that is in continual change. Some are Phase III issues, barrel at ejection port changed for faster unlocking, I think, single pin at the locking block changed to two pins, increased case head support at the ramp for the 40 S&W, single to dual recoil springs with a captive rod, and non drop free to drop free magazines, full metal liner.

I don’t particularly like Glock’s but you’ve got to admit they changed the pistol marketplace dramatically.

The 1911 requires a good deal of familiarity by the user to trust this platform.:o

[tipoc]

I have the desire to stir the pot some.

You can do that. It's easier to stir things when most of what you wrote above about the 1911 is incorrect. But I figure you know that. :)

tipoc

[Striker1]

The 1911 requires a good deal of familiarity by the user to trust this platform.

And so does a Glock...for that matter so does any firearm.

[LockedBreech]

And so does a Glock...for that matter so does any firearm.

That's true, but if you took 15 Glocks and 15 1911s (let's say $1,000 models, so 2x a Glock's cost) and put them on the firing line all day, which is more likely to jam/feed wrong, etc?

It's true that the 1911 has a lovely trigger, and shoots like a beauty, but shootability is second to a single thing in a combat firearm: dead nuts reliability.

Even the most well-maintained 1911 still has way more parts to have issues with. Safeties (grip and manual), springs, bushing, guide rod (two pieces if G.I.), etc. A Glock or other combat polymer has four - frame rails. slide, barrel, recoil spring assembly.

There's just more to go wrong on the excellent (but old) 1911.

I'd happily be corrected by any who disagree with me. I truly enjoy modern pistols and 1911s both, so I welcome a healthy debate to give me more stuff to consider.

[Shoot45's]

"Would you trust your life to a 1911?"

Sure.
Have many times.
No problems.
In situations like that I prefer the 5".

[LockedBreech]

"Would you trust your life to a 1911?"

Sure.
Have many times.
No problems.
In situations like that I prefer the 5".

I will say, if I did have to trust a 1911, it would be a 5" Fullsize of a quality make like Colt, Springfield, or Dan Wesson

[ChrisJ715]

Yes

[jedi391]

I would and I have (Wilson CQB) but not a production 1911 like a Kimber. It'd probably have to be a Wilson, Springfield, Ed Brown, or Les Baer (the true customs are out of my price range). Having said that I would take an HK (any of them), S&W (M&P), pre-2005 Sig P series, Beretta 92 series, or a 3rd generation or older Glock 17 before I took the 1911.

[Striker1]

That's true, but if you took 15 Glocks and 15 1911s (let's say $1,000 models, so 2x a Glock's cost) and put them on the firing line all day, which is more likely to jam/feed wrong, etc?

Actually I was referring specifically to the training required to operate any gun but since you brought it up, let's consider that all Glocks are made by Glock, while "1911" is a generic term identifying many pistols made by many companies. The actual 1911A1 was a combat pistol that was designed to operate in combat conditions...seems to have worked fine until people started trying to monkey with the design. It amazes me how suddenly the legendary reliability of the 1911 is thrown out the window.

I would also throw in that your idea about the Glocks firing all day without a problem may not be so true with the arrival of the new Gen 4 models.



It's true that the 1911 has a lovely trigger, and shoots like a beauty, but shootability is second to a single thing in a combat firearm: dead nuts reliability.

Do you practice stoppage drills with a Glock?

Even the most well-maintained 1911 still has way more parts to have issues with. Safeties (grip and manual), springs, bushing, guide rod (two pieces if G.I.), etc. A Glock or other combat polymer has four - frame rails. slide, barrel, recoil spring assembly.

There's just more to go wrong on the excellent (but old) 1911.

I've never compared, so what is the parts count on a Glock vs a 1911?

I'd happily be corrected by any who disagree with me. I truly enjoy modern pistols and 1911s both, so I welcome a healthy debate to give me more stuff to consider.

The 1911A1 is my favorite pistol and has been for as long as I can remember, but I also have a Gen 3 G19 which I like very much and shoot often.

[.45 CAL]

My Springfield M1911-A1 Mil-Spec has never let me down. Flawlessly operating over 4K rounds and still a shooter. I wouldn't and haven’t hesitated grabbing it on the way out the door.

[745SW]

IMO the Hi-Power is a vast improvement over the 1911 in terms of reliability. The locked breach design mechanics of the Hi-Power lives on in Sig’s, S&W’s, Walther P88 and later models, HK’s, Glock’s, Ruger’s, Springfield XD series and others.

Plunger tube and magazine floor-plate of the 1911 are known specific components that are weak points. No further evaluation is needed.

The two components of issue is the bushing and two-piece ramp.

Any and all bushings regardless of application cause stiction (friction, resistance to move). This causes some of the force of the recoiling slide to transfer to the frame early, exasperating limp-wristing. The no bushing design of the Hi-Power eliminates most of this stiction by having the barrel rest at the 6 o-clock position within the channel of the slide. Downward force at the muzzle is from the barrel hood against the breach face combined with the recoil spring.

The two-piece ramp in and of itself is not a problem. Example would be all Walther locking type designs have a two-piece ramp. But because the barrel of the 1911 tilts during it’s unlocking/locking of the breach, unlike the Walther, the low mass of the barrel at the chamber of the 1911 gives too fast of a lock-time. The Hi-Power solves this issue by making the entire ramp at/near the chamber of the barrel increasing its mass thus slowing the lock-time.

Another example of too fast lock-time. It’s well known the M4(carbine) version of the AR has a fast cycle rate and consequently fast lock-time that can cause reliability issues in the form of jams because of this fast cycle rate. Comparatively the slower cycle rate of the full size AR(20”) has fewer issues and suffers less from bolt breakage.

I have my vest and Lexan (bullet proof clear plastic) shield. No rocks or beer bottles please.:eek:

[jimjc]

The 1911 has been around for 100 yrs....It is trustworthy if you spend the money it takes to make it trustworthy and spend the money... as the round count increases.... gunsmithing and replacing parts....

The evolution of the 1911 has made it a much tighter gun and in doing so has made it susceptible to some failures...You can make them better but it will cost money...Look at the Browns...Wilsons...Nighthawks et. etc.

More modern guns like the HK USP has answered some the shortcomings the 1911 had...I always liked all my 1911`s and have shot probably 50,000 rounds through them but have moved on to the HK... it`s a far superior weapon...Yes it`s a expensive gun but to get the 1911 anywhere close to the build quality or reliability you would have to spend 2 1/2 times what it costs. Of coarse there are others but few as reliable as the HK USP....My 0.02...Jim

[johnbt]

"if you took 15 Glocks and 15 1911s (let's say $1,000 models, so 2x a Glock's cost) and put them on the firing line all day, which is more likely to jam/feed wrong, etc?"

Which 1911? A Colt? A Kimber? A Wilson? A 100-year-old 1911 or a handmade one?

Okay, we will take 15 different maker's guns and you can pick the Glock model. Here's my question...

1911 or Glock, which one will be the first to kaBoom or have an out of battery discharge? :D

Would I trust my life to a 1911? Certainly, there's no reason not to.

[johnbt]

"IMO the Hi-Power is a vast improvement over the 1911 in terms of reliability."

Even if you are correct about one or more of your points, it's still not a .45, is it? Apple, meet orange.

[jimjc]

Whether one trusts their life to hand gun depends on where they are...If I`m in my house I`m not trusting my life to a hand gun I`ll be using a shotgun period...of coarse I still have a handgun available but the shotgun is it....

Out and about of coarse I would use a handgun but I wouldn`t use a 1911...My HK USP is far more reliable than any 1911 I`ve ever owned and I`ve had quite a few...Jim

[10mmAuto]

"IMO the Hi-Power is a vast improvement over the 1911 in terms of reliability."

Even if you are correct about one or more of your points, it's still not a .45, is it? Apple, meet orange.

Because the capabilities of 9mm and .45 are so divergent that comparing two steel, hammered fired automatics by the same designer is pointless because one is (typically) 9mm and the other (typically) .45? Cool story bro. The internet's got some ballistics analysis and after action reviews of shootings you should check out.

Unless you're handgun hunting larger game or limited to ball ammunition for self defense use, the difference if any is not appreciable and is pretty well documented. If you're a member of the cult of .45, though, no empirical or subjective evidence will convince you of anything.

[JC57]

I used to have a Colt Combat Commander in satin nickel that I bought around 1979. I never carried it (couldn't back then) but it was a reliable shooter and I could hit a target just fine with it.

So sure, I don't see why not. My other option in those days was a .38 revolver which I in fact did have to trust my life with, so I would think that 8 rounds of .45 would trump 6 rounds of .38.

[ROGER4314]

I've heard it said that too much Internet/computer use makes people a bit crazy and poorly socialized. When I see stuff like this 1911 reliability issue, I begin to see some wisdom in that. (No offense intended to the OP)

In my early days, I hunted small game with a 1911. I carried in a Safari land holster and carried on the safety notch with a loaded chamber. Now, I find that carrying a 1911 that way will cause the sun to extinguish and the universe to collapse. That's just garbage!

I still have the first of dozens of 1911's that I've owned since 1968 and I don't remember EVER having a malfunction with that pistol! I also shot that pistol in competition and it's reliable as a rock. When I took my CHL test and later my renewal test, that 1911 was there.

I'm older and wiser and probably wouldn't carry on the safety notch now, but I carried like that for YEARS over fences, across streams and gullies. I tromped brush piles and brambles and never had a mishap. Now we're talking about the 1911 being unsafe and unreliable!

Sometimes I just hate the Internet.

Flash

[DunRanull]

I have trusted my life- and my family- to the JMB designs for many years. Including camping and hiking in the mountains. 1911, 1911-A1, Combat Commander, BHP. Some in .45acp, some in 9mmP. If forced to choose I'd go with the Colt Combat Commander. Bone-stock if need be, slightly higher fixed sights, by preference. I still mourn my first, an electro-nickel Colt CC... foolishly traded for whatever back when.

[buckhorn_cortez]

"...exasperating limp-wristing."

Limp wristing certainly is exasperating - but not limited to the 1911...if you're going to attempt to impress us with 5 syllable words, you might want to get the correct one...

[745SW]

“Even if you are correct about one or more of your points, it's still not a .45, is it? Apple, meet orange.”

Yes most if not all the non-1911 45ACP pistols from the various makers appear not to be made anymore. The OP may have a point about the 1911 being largely only a range gun, everyone I personally know of that have 45’s, including myself, do not keep them loaded. My S&W 66 (revolver) is usually loaded and my Walther P5 and Glock 19C sometimes. Should this be true for most it would mean reliability would not be much of an issue for pistols chambered in 45ACP and the need for alternative designs to the 1911 such as the Hi-Power would not be desired or needed.:(

I work many of the larger gun shows in the state and a few out of state so I will try asking those interested in accessories for their 45 auto, regardless of make or kind, if they keep it loaded.

[Tactical Jackalope]

We're still with this?

lol...okay, guys who trust the 1911 (like myself) = carry it.

Guys who don't, don't carry it. Can't we all just get along?

[rem44m]

I think the true answer is yes I would trust my life with the right 1911. The platform does not matter as much as the individual gun with your specific ammo.

[tex45acp]

I have for over 3 decades and it has never failed me in 10's of thousands of rounds. I have shot them in competition, formal & informal, qualified with a perfect score on my Texas Concealed Handgun License 4 times and used them for small game & varmint hunting with great success. I have carried a 4" concealed IWB for 2 decades........Absolutely!!!

[10mmAuto]

I have for over 3 decades and it has never failed me in 10's of thousands of rounds.
You must mean some kind of major parts breakage or failure. I don't believe for a second you've never experienced a stoppage with that round count - with any weapon. It's possible, but the probability of you never having experienced one is incredibly low.

As a side note and reply to OP, 1911s can be plenty reliable but require a lot more time, money and smithing than a modern polymer weapon. No reason not to trust your life to one, but if you did it out of the box or without regular preventative maintenance it's a bad idea.

[magmax]

I would trust my life to MY Colt 1911. I've been shooting Colt 1911s since the late 60s. Had several Colt Gold Cups and have fired 10s of thousands of rounds. The sights would shoot loose after a few thousand rounds, but that was a given.
This Colt "Silver Star' was one of the first one thousand stainless guns produced by Colt & was meant to be a display/collector gun [came in a nice wooden box]. Replaced the sights [dovetailed in], and sent the gun to Jim Strop down in Georgia for trigger job & reliability package. In the 10+ years since, it has never failed to function 100%. It is special-it works-and it is mine.
David

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8286/7735505548_cd4400f194_c.jpg

[akguy1985]

yeah i would. i've owned a couple RIA 1911's.

[Hunter Customs]

magmax,

Nice looking Colt, great looking gun. It has everything you need and not a lot of gismos and dodads you don't need.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[TimW77]

Anyone with REAL experience knows, only on the internet would you find something so silly!:rolleyes:

What is worse is that this BS just goes on and on and on...

T.

[Tactical Jackalope]

Hunter to magmax

Nice looking Colt, great looking gun. It has everything you need and not a lot of gismos and dodads you don't need.


agreed..very nice. :D