454casull rifle??

[house]

Was wondering do they make a 454casull rifle?
Why i ask is I am thinking of buying one of the taurus or ruger hand guns and would like a rilfe in the same bullet.

[Fatcat]

That would be one hell of a carbine.. good idea, though, I would have to have one :)

[Cosmoline]

I've often wondered why Marlin hasn't come out with one, but there may be market problems. If you're going to get a levergun and you want max. power, the .444, .45-70 or .450 Marlin would all be superior to a .454 Casull. If you want a handy carbine, Marlin and Winchester have a bunch of models in .45 Colt, .44 Mag., etc. As a handgun cartridge, the Casull is at the limits of the possible. Yet when moved to the world of leverguns, the Casull fits in an akward zone between rifle cartridges and standard handgun/levergun cartridges. It's less powerful than the big rifle cartridges, but it's got a *lot* more kick and PSI than the typical carbine cartridges. That said, I've heard a lot of people asking for one.

[patrickt66]

The only one I'm aware of is the Remington Rolling Block.

[Robert the41MagFan]

Browning make one.

Robert

[Blue Duck357]

Maybe I'd be the only one to buy it, but I'd love to see it chambered in a bolt carbine with an action just long enough for the cartridge,an 18" to 20" barrel. Might even put a forward mounted scout scope on it. Now that they know I want it surely they'll make it right?

Blue Duck

[Schmit]

I discussed converting a lever-action over to .454 Casull years ago with Jim West (of Wild West Guns Co-Pilot fame). The problem lies with the pressure levels generated with the Casull and the pressure levels that lever actions (Win & Marlin) were designed to handle.

As Jim put it "It can be done. I won't do it. I've heard of some being made. It's a question of how long the gun will last before failing... could be a couple rounds, could be a lot."

If one of the gun manufactuers redesigned/beefed up the action one could be made. Until then I'm (and everyone else) are SOL on a lever action to go with their handguns in .454. :(

[Kenneth L. Walters]

You could always buy a Lone Star 45 Colt rolling block and then have it rechamered to 454.

[Cosmoline]

Just a word of caution--I'm wondering if a single-shot Lone Star in .45 Colt, or any long colt carbine, can withstand 60,000+ PSI over and over again. I wouldn't want to be the one to find out that it couldn't ;-)

[kidcoltoutlaw]

it would handle it a ruger super redhawk with a long barrel and a stock on it like a rifle.just think you would not have to carry it with the safety on would be great for bears.if they ever get around to outlawing the semi's i think we will see something like that.that's what makes this country great great minds.

[Spectre]

I have asked this question myself, recently. BD, I would also be very happy with a short-barreled bolt gun, though perhaps a bit shorter, for mine.

I would also consider a short double rifle, but (as was pointed out in a recent thread re this subject), the problem of regulating the barrels to same POI make doubles expensive. George Stringer thinks it may be possible to convert a Mosin-Nagant...

I would consider a SRH-based carbine, as well, especially if they found a way to guard against cylinder gap gases burning my support arm!

I just can't see paying over $800 (Browning) for a single-shot, short-range rifle...with a 28" bl.

[Marko Kloos]

A very competent gunsmith I know is just itching to do a conversion of a .45 Colt Marlin to .454 Casull. He does not seem to think the higher pressure of the .454 would pose a problem in the Marlin action. I am thinking about buying a Marlin and handing it to him for the conversion job. That would be a rockin' little rifle...anybody in the market for one if I test mine and still have all my eyes and fingers after a few hundred rounds? We'd be checking the action for undue wear or stress marks after a test period, and if it's pronounced good and safe, I bet he'd be willing and able to crank out a few of those.

[Spectre]

I'm all ears. (It's quite a sight. ;))

[Keith Rogan]

I fail to see the logic in some of these rifles.

If a 94 Trapper (or something similar) could withstand the pressure of a .454, it would make a lot of sense. But if you are going up to a heavier rifle like the Marlin or a bolt rifle, why not just use the .45/70, .450 Marlin, etc?
In effect, you are stepping down in power, not up when going to the .454 in suc a rifle.

It seems like a lot of money to spend just to duplicate a light .45/70 load that you can already buy off the shelf.

Or am I missing something?

[kidcoltoutlaw]

thats a good point

[Robert the41MagFan]

Keith,

Safe is already lined with 45-70, 450 and the like, but nothing in between. Something in .454 Casull would be cool factor only and fill the gap between .44 and .45 and the 45-70/450.

This is purely fantasy though, the Casull cartridge reaches pressures as high as 65000 to over 100000 PSI before exiting the barrel. No modern levergun can handle the initial 65000 PSI hit.

Robert

[Blue Duck357]

Can't fit a 45-70 in the same size action as the 454:)

I was envisioning a very short action, (just long enough to handle the cartridge). This would leave us with light weight action and a short stroke for fast repeat shots. Build it into a relativly light rifle , 6 pounds or so with an 18 inch barrel, I'd buy one. You just can't due the same thing with a 45-70.

Imagine it as kind of a mini dangerous game or express rifle, I'd think it would be good for hogs, whitetail, black bear, at close to moderate ranges. Of course we could all use remington 30-06's for everthing and be done with it, but whats the fun in that?
;)

[kidcoltoutlaw]

by the taylor factor the 454 is better than the 30-06 .

[Spectre]

I was thinking more like, a 16.5" bl bolt gun with "scout" scope. I'd carry it for griz defense without hesitation.

[Keith Rogan]

Well, if you could create a short enough action and you got the bucks, why not? But since I don't know of an action that short, you're talking about building from the ground up... Practicality aside, such a rifle would be very cool, I have to admit!

How about a semi-auto conversion? Somebody was making cannons out of .30 Carbines not long ago - why not convert one to .454? There's also that new .44 mag Deerfield, or even the Mini-14, both of which should be able to withstand the pressures.

[George Hill]

What would the bullet weight be and what velocity could the .454 get out of a rifle?:confused:

[Robert the41MagFan]

Well, if it's going to be in semi automatic form, we're talking a whole new beast and such a beast already exist, but in 50 AE. Some outfit makes an AR upper (carbine) in the cartridge. Fifty cases are also better suited for feeding in a semi and have hairsplitting better ballistics. I believe the gun is called a Hammerhead, Sledgehammer or Hammersomething. Or some corny catchy name.

George,
A 300 grain bullet powered by 30 grains of H110 will produce 53700 CUP and 1716 FPS from a 9.375" FA barrel. Would guess that double the barrel length would add another 300-500 FPS. That velocity would almost rival 45-70 for supremacy.

Robert

[Keith Rogan]

I had to come back and mention that I did think of a bolt action that *might" serve as a base for such a rifle - at least the action is short enough to make sense.
I'm talking about the Spanish Destroyer Carbine which was chambered for (I think), 9mm Largo.
This is the only bolt rifle I'm aware of that was ever chambered for a pistol cartridge.
If the .454 would fit in that envelope and the rifle can handle those pressures... it might serve as a base for such a conversion.

I think cutting down any other action to fit a pistol cartridge would go well into the 10k range before you were finished.

[Spectre]

NO! NO, NO, NO! (Unless this is a present for Janet "I take full responsibility" Reno!)

The "Destroyer" is not a very strong piece. I would be reluctant to rebarrel for 9x25 Dillon, much less something that could very well wreck a Moisin-Nagant.

---
Don't feel the animals!

[Keith Rogan]

Well, if you say so. I wasn't sure about the Destroyer, I've never even seen one.

I don't know of any other bolt rifles that would be suitable for a pistol cartridge.

[Correia]

Robert, its the Tromix Sledgehammer that you are thinking of.

www.tromix.com

[Spectre]

CZ makes a "mini-Mauser" action (currently used for 7.62x39mm, .223, .22 Hornet) that might be suitable, if strong enough.

[Keith Rogan]

CZ has an excellent reputation. Sounds like a plan, to me - keep us informed!

[Spectre]

So, when this matures- I can bring it up your way for testing? ;)

[Keith Rogan]

Yes please! Though I think it's a bit light for our bears here on the island, we could go over to the mainland and whack a moose, or down southeast and pile up some black bears.

A suggestion - or an idea - is to look at lengthening the chamber beyond the normal parameters so you can shoot heavier bullets up to the 500 grain range.
I don't think the additional free-bore would hurt accuracy (doesn't seem to matter in revolvers) and you might want that extra weight to shoot really big stuff.

I'm no gunsmith, so that may be a bad idea for reasons unknown to me, but I would certainly look at it. With heavier bullets, I think such a rifle would be adequate for anything in North America and most stuff in Africa.

[Spectre]

Definitely an idea. One could send out a very heavy cast load @ about 850 fps, maybe...nice close "walking" gun with little noise and controllable recoil.

[Keith Rogan]

850 fps? I'd think you could do better than that with the longer barrel and slower powders that a rifle would give you. Have you checked Thompson Contender loads for .454?