First auto for ccw/woods use

[The Prodigy]

After browsing the search option for a while, I have a couple questions I could not find answers for (or more-so opinions on) from more experienced folk in the handgun world. Here is my situation: College kid (limited budget for ammunition) however, I work at a sporting goods store and can get most handguns for 30%-50% off, so that is not too big of a worry. I am looking for an auto that I would be able to easily conceal, being 5'5" and 130lbs, but one that would also fair half decent in the woods as a sidearm while bow hunting. I like the feel of the baby Glocks and the 1911 platform, but have trouble in deciding on a caliber. Right now I'm looking at either .40 or .45 (I've shot .40 and feel fairly comfortable with that round) but possibly .45 would fair better in a defense situation with a Mountain lion or bear:confused::confused: Sorry for the long post, but any information or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

[Nico Testosteros]

Glock 29 if you are willing to go with 10mm.

[tahunua001]

if you like 1911s then that is what I would go with, for the most part they are primarily all in 45 with a few offered in other calibers. 45 is one of the most common handgun calibers around and rightnow, due to 11 years of war and 4 years of democratic presidential administration is at an all time high. however it is still neck and neck with 40 for ammo prices and as soon as either war ends or president becomes republican, ammo prices will trend down considerably in the major calibers such as 9mm and 45 for handguns and 223, 308 and 7.62x39 for rifles. now 40S&W is not really an obscure round and is quite common however 40 S&W is not a prominent round since there are no surplus or military pattern weapons that utilize it with the exception of a few limited run models so there are going to be far fewer people stockpiling it. this is not a political discussion, I'm just pointing out the prominent trends in ammo and firearm prices based on public unrest and distrust.

I would say long term the 45 will be the best for ammo prices and would offer a wider selection of firearms to choose from.

also IMHO, although the 40 has greater factory velocity than the 45 it is still throwing lighter bullets, offering no great advantage over a +p 45 bullet. the 40 is an intermediate round between 9mm and 45ACP that does not do as well as the 45 over distance but also has less ammo capacity than 9mm and with ammo prices identical to the 45, it really does not offer any advantage over either of those chambers.

I would recommend the 45 without question but that's just me, many others do not share my views and opinions.

[Dashunde]

I picked the Glock 27... 9+1 of .40 is a formidable package, and it shoots pretty good for a small pistol and that round.
It can also run a aftermarket barrel for 9mm - takes 10 seconds to swap.

Neither the 40 or 45 are all that great for the woods, however a strong FMJ/hardcast 40 sounds just as good to me as anything else short of a 10mm.
Although, There are some decent +P 45 woods rounds, such as this stuff (http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=69).

Woods or not, for every day carry I'd go with my PM9 again - great shooting & easy to carry.
Anything much bigger (including the G27) gets on my nerves after a couple of hours.

Keep an eye on the XDs (http://www.xdspistol.com/specs.php) too ;)

[PoorRichRichard]

tahunua001 Very well articulated and thought out reply. Makes want to go out and get another 45:D

[FALshootist]

Had a G20 for the woods and swamp. Great gun but big and heavy. Now what I carry in the woods and swamp is a G 27 in 40 S&W. It does what I need doing and is light and easy to carry.

[KyJim]

I've never shot a mountain lion but it is my understanding they are "thin skinned" and anything that will work well on a two-legged varmint should work on a mountain lion. That means either a .40 or .45 would be fine.

I've also never shot a bear. You don't indicate if you are concerned about black bears or grizzlies. Lot's of bear threads on the forum, though. For grizzlies, every single one of them suggest bear spray and either a heavy caliber rifle or 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot or slugs. In a handgun, bigger and heavier is better -- .454, .44 mag. I do believe that the Norwegians equipped some of their border patrol with 10mm Glocks loaded heavy as backup weapons for polar bear defense when 9mm rounds bounced off them. :eek: Well, maybe they didn't bounce off but they were ineffective. Point being, either a .40 or .45 is probably not the best choice.

[Hansam]

My preferences, yours may vary.

CCW: .45acp - preferably a 1911 variant

Woods (read dangerous animals like bear and cougars): .44mag revolver with some speed loaders.

[Kreyzhorse]

I prefer all things .45. With that said, you mentioned a budget for ammo. You should know that 9mm offers cheaper ammo options than either the .40 or .45.

If you plan on concealing your gun of choice, know that full sized guns generally require more effort to conceal them. You will have to dress around them and larger guns can be much more difficult to conceal in warm weather.

As far as a woods gun, I prefer a revolver in .357 but .44 is a great choice too.

I know I didn't offer suggestions, but did want to give you some food for thought. If I had to pick a gun for you, I'd suggest a 1911 in .45 but that's just me.

[kcub]

I'd just get a Ruger SP101 in .357.
Great defense gun, great woods gun.
Get a speedloader and fear no evil.

[sawman1293]

I can't offer suggestions for the woods, but I can give you my experience in concealing a gun on a small frame. I am your same size and I easily carry a G19 nearly everyday to work wearing jeans and a tucked polo shirt. I use a Crossbreed supertuck holster. When I want to carry smaller, or wear tighter shirts, I carry a G26 or LCP.

[Mystro]

I live in the mountains and am a hard core bowhunter myself. I have carried a lot of difference guns over the years. I am a die hard 10mm fan but for carrying a small gun that will work against black bears and the like, my absolutely favorite woods guns are either a Glock 27 loaded up with +p loads that are putting out 500ft/lbs or a Taurus Judge Public Defender. The Judge can be loaded up with so many versatile loads. I mainly have it loaded with Federal 00 buck designed for the gun and 45LC. It carries very well and I tend to carry it when I am on my ATV. I have been in my tree stand at dark when a pack of coyotes were running hard underneath me. Tha Judge with 00buck is ideal for situations like that.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj182/TheMystro1971/KNIVES/EMERSON%20JOURNEYMAN/gunemerson2net.jpghttp://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj182/TheMystro1971/KNIVES/ZT0350Glock.jpg

[Will Beararms]

Glock 23

[jrothWA]

given your requirements I'll suggest that a 1911 format is likey best maybe consider using a "Commander" type, prefer the .45ACP. When I carried hiking or backpacking have used the standard 230gr XTP ammo and when in known black bear areas, had a mag loaded with Hornady230 FMJ-FP ammo.

Good luck with selection and enjoy.

[The Prodigy]

Thanks for all of the info guys!! Lots of food for thought:D

[doofus47]

I live in Colorado. Black bears and mountain lions are the main worries here. I carry a .40 in the woods. My friend, who often goes on epic 6 hour mountain bike rides to god knows which side of the divide and back, prefers a light .357 Magnum revolver.

I don't feel under gunned. He doesn't feel under gunned. Just practice with whatever you pick.

[ClydeFrog]

I'd lean more towards a NIB(new in box) Taurus Raging Bull Judge or a S&W Governor type revolver over a mid/sub compact semi-auto pistol.
You can shoot calibers like .410, .45acp, .454(Casull), .45LC.
Some models can add a slick CT red Lasergrip too, ;) .
If you REALLY want a semi auto, I'd buy a DAK, LDA or LEM(law enforcement modification) hammer fired pistol(DA only).
Pistols like a P-2000sk, P-224, C format PX4 9x19mm, the new ParaUSA compact(LDA system in .45acp with ambi-safety), P229R, HK45c .45acp.

I'd buy a .357sig over a .40 or .45acp too. It's powerful like a .40 but feeds great & offers outstanding marksmanship. .357sig pistols have seen duty for many years(mid-1990s) with LE agencies like Texas DPS, FAMs(air marshals) & the US Secret Service(P229Rs).
As posted, the 10mm is great for outdoors, but the .357sig has many top factory loads; DPX, Ranger-T T series, Speer Gold Dot, DoubleTap Ammo.

CF

[idnative1948]

Very good point doofus! Whatever you carry practice, practice so you never have a doubt.

[tahunua001]

ahh I forgot to ask about the type of bear you were worried about? mountain lions can be dropped with just about anything larger than 32ACP so either caliber would work.

if you are worried about grizzly then any autoloader short of a desert eagle is going to be considered marginal at best. I personally only have to worry about blackbears which in most of the united states only get about 450 pounds so a good 45ACP would easily drop them with proper shot placement. I personally carry a springfield XDM45 when I'm hunting with alternated FMJ and +P hollowpoint ammo so if I do run into a freak of nature I have both penetration and tissue shock to work with. the reality for me though is that we are lucky if a fully grown bore in my region grows to be 300 pounds so even a 9mm with alternated fmjs and hollowpoints would be marginally suited to the task.

[The Prodigy]

Sorry for the lack of info on the bears, and blackies are all i'm worried about up here, thanks goodness...

So far it seems that either .40 OR .45 will suit me decent for my carry and woods needs with only marginal game to be worrying about.

[TunnelRat]

Had a G20 for the woods and swamp. Great gun but big and heavy.

Revolvers must feel like boat anchors to you. ;) I kid, I kid.

My advice, if you see a bear or a mountain lion go the other way. If they see you before you see them, and they attack you which would be an indicator of some extraneous circumstance i.e. cubs or sickness, well, good luck.

All this talk of bear guns amuses me. Are you realistically going to run into a lot of bear and/or mountain lions where you are? If so, carry bear spray. I would pay money to watch someone put down a charging bear with a handgun. If it ain't charging, go away.

[RC20]

I know of 3 cases where a 9mm took down a grizzly bear.

Go with that in as high a capacity magazine as you can get that works for you for the CC.

On the other hand, I would not want to face off with a critter with a CC gun that suits your narrow frame.

Hard enough at best of times, at least a 4 inch barrel for the woods gun.

S&W MP 9mm compact might work as you can use the big cap magazine form the MP regular in the gun for the wood carry and switch to the smaller one or two that come with the gun for CC.

[TunnelRat]

I know of 3 cases where a 9mm took down a grizzly bear.

Go with that in as high a capacity magazine as you can get that works for you for the CC.

This.

If anything I'd go with this. If you're being charged by a bear, you're not gonna crack your neck like Murtaugh in Lethal Weapon, take one shot, bear falls down dead, and stand over the carcass and say, "It's just been revoked". I imagine more of a desperate flurry of bullets.

[Fishing_Cabin]

Since you mentioned mountain lion and bear...I live in the north western area of north carolina, just south of VA. We dont have mountain lion here, though we do have large cats such as lynx, as well as tons of black bear. My fishing cabin is at a small lake with 2 ponds as well. So wildlife is not only common, its rare when you either dont see it, or recent evidence.

I keep either a 1911 in 45 with me, loaded with 230 gr JHP or sometimes I have a browning Hi Power in 9mm, 124gr JHP, with a 12 ga shotgun in the pickup. I have never known anyone to need anything more around here. Animal protection is not just about carrying a firearm. Its also about being wise on how we act around other animals. Never think that just because you have a firearm an animal will not attack. You can use proper caution and keep the risk of attack to a minimum.

I am VERY used to bear with cubs around here... Keep some distance, and be watchful and they leave you be, usually.

Edit to add, I never had reason to get close enough to use any bear spray. Also most people around here hunt bear with 357 in either a revolver or a lever gun.

[kcub]

You could get a .45 and later have it converted it to .45 Super (which still is capable of shooting .45 ACP).

http://www.acecustom45s.com/gunsmith.htm

[ROCK6]

For CCW, it’s usually a 9mm or .45, depending on the occasion, dress and season. I only own two .40 S&W pistols; a Glock 23 and a S&W 4006 (that I pretty much picked up for a song). For all my outdoors activities of hiking, backpacking, mountain biking, kayaking, fishing, etc. I pack along the Glock 23. It works well for what it is and I have a mag full of 200 grain hard-cast rounds that can be pretty potent on thick-boned critters. Honestly, it often gets neglected and tossed around; it’s not prized CCW piece, just a good outdoors defensive tool. I’ve taken spill in rivers with it, sweated all over it, had it fall in the dirt a time or two, but it continues to work with minimal love and care.

For carrying, I pack it in a Hill People’s Gear “Kit Bag”, which is a chest mounted bag with holster compartment…simply the best of outdoors CCW.

ROCK6

[Pilot]

Anything you'd carry around town is fine for the woods, unless there are Grizzlies.

If you are comfortable with a 1911, full size or Commander in .45 ACP, just carry that. My hiking gun for the Colorado Rockies is often a Browning Hi Power or CZ-75D PCR, both in 9MM. I am more worried about two legged predators, than four legged.