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View Full Version : 12 ga. vs. .22 for home defense.


JJW
March 14, 2012, 09:41 AM
After reading the thread ( 12 ga. vs. 357 ) in this forum, I thought it might be of interest. It was sent by the Buckeye Firearms Assoc. on Twitter. It speaks volumes for placement vs. size.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8256

I hope I have done this in keeping with the new policy.

tim s
March 14, 2012, 10:12 AM
It also makes one ponder the question of "luck vs intelligence" if anybody thinks a .22 is a wise HD choice.

Frank Ettin
March 14, 2012, 10:27 AM
It also makes one ponder the question of "luck vs intelligence" if anybody thinks a .22 is a wise HD choice. I agree. It looks like the intruder decided not to fight. Instead, he chose to run and was found some distance away. If he had wanted, he probably would have been quite capable of continuing the fight.

JJW
March 14, 2012, 10:34 AM
My apology, I was NOT supporting a .22 as a good HD weapon, especially a single shot rifle. I think the most important thing here is; Don't give up and use what ever is available. I'd bet that his opinion of CC will change.

Venom1956
March 14, 2012, 10:42 AM
I agree with fiddle. 22 for HD/SD is foolish and risky. Do an enemy no minor harm. Certainly a .22 can be a lethal round I do not argue that, but the .38 spl or 9mm even .380 are much better 'minimum' calibers for defense. Any of THESE or larger pistol rounds out of a carbine makes recoil a non issue.* They have very nice HP ammo on the market today.


The hardest part of using any rimfire ammo for defensive purposes is the fickleness of primers compared to centerfire, Last thing you need is a dud .22 when your or someone elses life hangs in the balance... I've had only 2 bad centerfire primers in all my shooting days, one ignited after a second try. I probably have a small pile of .22 ammo that's failed to go off.

* comparing a 9mm vs .22 fired from a rifle.

C0untZer0
March 14, 2012, 04:03 PM
The way the story puts it the home owner was cooperating and going down the stairs as asked when the assailant shot him.

Never assume that if you cooperate with criminals that they aren't going to kill you.

Glockstar .40
March 16, 2012, 08:03 PM
hopefully i never have to use it but i think ima stick with my 00buck. if the 1st shot doesnt stop someone i got 7 more for em.

GroovyMike
March 16, 2012, 08:18 PM
I once met a man who was shot 6 times at point blank range with a 22 revolver in the abdomen (bar fight). He took the empty pistol away from the shooter and beat him unconscious with it. Then he drove himself to the hospital and lived many more years walking and talking normally with no evidence of the shooting unless he had his shirt off.

I met another man who had been shot just once with a 12 guage load of birdshot. He was found left for dead but with a long hospital stay survived missing his front teeth, his nose, and both eyes for the rest of his years.

Draw your own conclusions.

Oysterboy
March 16, 2012, 08:44 PM
I would rather have a 22 semi-auto rifle instead of a single shot and shoot for the head. The 22 rifle is very accurate so a head shot shouldn't be hard.

aparootsa
March 16, 2012, 08:49 PM
My wife can't handle my .357 SIG, so the P22 is her go-to gun for HD. I'm confident that she'd be able to snap off all 10 rounds in short time if needed to defend our child (or me, but definitely for the kid) and that afterwards she'd be fine kicking the snot out of the intruder.

That said, I prefer the SIG, 'cause... well... all other things being equal, a lot of lead will do more damage than a little. It's more of a 5-year project to get her to that point, but hey... 5 years ago she had never shot a gun, and now she's ok with one ready for use in the home, so that's progress.

1-UP
March 17, 2012, 06:57 PM
"I would rather have a 22 semi-auto rifle instead of a single shot and shoot for the head. The 22 rifle is very accurate so a head shot shouldn't be hard."

I don't know - a 6" moving target with a very short time window to fire...seems pretty hard to me...

Hansam
March 17, 2012, 07:04 PM
I personally wouldn't be taking any head shots in a SD/HD situation except in the situation of "2 to the chest then 1 to the head."

That aside I'd definitely prefer to be shooting the 12ga. than the .22LR. A 12ga loaded with a 2 3/4" #4 shell would be sufficient for taking care of most any two legged varmint that makes their unwanted way into my home. A .22LR may or may not get the job done and for that matter may just end up angering said varmint.

If all you have is a .22lr or all your wife will use is a .22lr then by all means use it. Otherwise its wiser to go with a larger caliber firearm for HD.

CMichael
March 17, 2012, 07:40 PM
The .22 didn't stop the assailant. After being shot he fled.

L_Killkenny
March 19, 2012, 11:05 AM
A vast majority of BG's don't like being shot at let alone shot with any gun and will run, fall down and cry, etc. Thus the threat is ended. Now I'd be a fool to say a 12ga isn't a better man stopper than a .22lr but to say that a person who chooses a .22lr for SD/HD is only gonna live if he's lucky is a complete falsehood. As a matter of fact you'd have to be damn unlucky or pretty well inept to have your choice of cartridge make wholesale difference. Platform, shot placement, skill, etc being equal of coarse.

LK

Skans
March 20, 2012, 08:18 AM
I'll take just about anything over a .22 for home defense. (.25 is the only exception.)

JJW
March 20, 2012, 08:37 AM
Although we are lacking all the facts, it appears as if the .22 rifle was all that he had available. If that is the case, it was a better choice than the alternative, which was nothing.

markj
March 20, 2012, 03:51 PM
Although we are lacking all the facts, it appears as if the .22 rifle was all that he had available. If that is the case, it was a better choice than the alternative, which was nothing.


+1

My cousin was shot 4 times in the abdomen with a 357, just talked to him the other day... guy shot him is in prison for 100 years.

Bamashooter
March 21, 2012, 01:20 AM
I would have no problem using a .22lr if that was all I had. Plenty of people have been killed with one shot from a .22lr.

Stevie-Ray
March 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
I'll take just about anything over a .22 for home defense. (.25 is the only exception.) This in spades. Was a time when a .22 was all I had, and I used it for that. Times changed for me as I got older.

Use what you have, but strive to have what you need.

gvw3
March 21, 2012, 04:14 PM
Although authorities did not release what type of weapons were used in the shootings, a former student of mine who is related to the victims in this case informed me that the attacker had a shotgun loaded with deer slugs, and the defender was able to return fire and stop the attack with a .22 single shot rifle.


This vic was shot in the back with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with deer slugs. I find this hard to believe he could return fire after that. The part about the bad guy getting shot with 1 .22 round and running off I can believe.

I have a ruger 10/22 with several 25 round clips that I would not hesitate to use for home defense. It wouldn't be my 1st chose but it would do the job.

dayman
March 22, 2012, 12:49 PM
I once met a man who was shot 6 times at point blank range with a 22 revolver in the abdomen (bar fight). He took the empty pistol away from the shooter and beat him unconscious with it. Then he drove himself to the hospital and lived many more years walking and talking normally with no evidence of the shooting unless he had his shirt off.

I met another man who had been shot just once with a 12 guage load of birdshot. He was found left for dead but with a long hospital stay survived missing his front teeth, his nose, and both eyes for the rest of his years.

Draw your own conclusions.

The conclusion I draw is that I'd rather be shot in the belly than the head. Of course, the caliber choice doesn't really effect that particular preference :D

Tokarev Czar
March 22, 2012, 09:18 PM
I felt safest with my Lab/pit mix at the foot of my bed and my Remington 870 equipped with a light. Left the sliding door unlocked and open, never felt safer. Although a .22 is definitely better than nothing.

Double Naught Spy
March 23, 2012, 05:20 AM
I would rather have a 22 semi-auto rifle instead of a single shot and shoot for the head. The 22 rifle is very accurate so a head shot shouldn't be hard.

.22s are not particularly any more accurate than other calibers and differences in accuracy most guns at self defense distances is fairly inconsequential.

As for making those easy headshots, ever notice how professionals sometimes have trouble with live targets? Maybe the shot should not be hard, but apparently turns out to be.


I would have no problem using a .22lr if that was all I had. Plenty of people have been killed with one shot from a .22lr.

Being killed is not the same as being stopped. Even more people die of cancer every day, but I would not want to count on cancer as being a timely way to take out an attacker.

Although we are lacking all the facts, it appears as if the .22 rifle was all that he had available. If that is the case, it was a better choice than the alternative, which was nothing.

So what you are saying is that the victim was ordered down stairs where he was shot in the back with a 12 ga deer slug and the only thing in the down stairs apparently was a .22 rifle? Apparently left alone, I am fairly certain that the victim had numerous alternatives other than a .22 rifle. The fact that so many folks don't understand the alternatives available to them doesn't mean that they don't exist.

markj
March 23, 2012, 01:02 PM
I am fairly certain that the victim had numerous alternatives other than a .22 rifle

And you know this how?? In my barn is a 22 semi and only that. Now if Iwasnt carrying and some idiot came at me in there, well that would be what I would use. It is very accurate too.

raceroch
March 23, 2012, 01:16 PM
I've had only 2 bad centerfire primers in all my shooting days, one ignited after a second try. Venom195?

Not sure what centerfire you shoot, but on a weekend of shooting i do have a handful of .22 duds, but also have a centerfire primer that doesnt go off. hard to believe that if you shoot a lot (assuming you do if you are on this forum) you dont see more than two in a lifetime, so far.

dayman
March 23, 2012, 04:50 PM
Offhand I can't recall ever having a centerfire primer fail to go off. I don't reload (my understanding is reloads can be finicky), but I put a couple thousand rounds of relatively cheap (winchester/remUMC) target loads downrange a year. .22 failing on the other hand is a semi-regular occurrence.

I'd second all the above opinions that I'd rather have a .22 than nothing, but if you're choosing a weapon specifically for HD, it seems like a bad option. I know from personal experience that hitting a deer is significantly harder than hitting a paper circle, and I can imagine that hitting a person in the head - presumably in low light after having just woken up - would be very hard indeed. Buy a pump shotgun: sounds scary, looks scary, is scary.

Double Naught Spy
March 23, 2012, 09:03 PM
And you know this how??

Simple, markj, as I stated, I am fairly certain. There isn't anybody that only has a .22 single shot rifle in their downstairs and nothing else.

In my barn is a 22 semi and only that.

Really? You use a whole barn to store a .22 semi and absolutely nothing else? That must be some amazingly accurate .22 if you built a whole barn for it.

Now if Iwasnt carrying and some idiot came at me in there, well that would be what I would use. It is very accurate too.

LOL, nobody is going to go at you in your barn where you just have the .22. No, if you are in the barn, they are going to be stealing the tractor and related implements out of the gun safe in your house.

I am pretty certain that you don't just have a barn with only a .22 in it. From everything you have described previously, you would not be that wasteful. As I said above, people often have quite a number of resources available to them, the problem is that they fail to recognize what they have that can be used in their defense. Of course many folks who fail to realize what they can use for weapons and cover are the same folks that talk about how well prepared they are and yet not being "defenseless" if without a gun.

Frank Ettin
March 23, 2012, 11:16 PM
It looks like there's really not any more substantive to say.

Closed.