Old 1911..whats it worth?

[likearock]

I aquired a Colt 45 Government model at an auction and when I did a search on the serial number, it shows it was made in 1913. Its in very good shooting condition. It looks like someone had used a green cleaning pad on it as alot of the bluing is gone. Has a small amount of pitting on the top slide in an area bout the size of a dime. Just wondering about what its worth. Now the funny part. I bought a set of golf clubs at this auction and when I got it home and pulled all the clubs out, this gun was in the bottom of the bag.

[9mm]

A friend has one like 65~75% its worth(hes been told) $2500~$3200 ish. I like its 1913/14

Shouldn't you report that? you bought clubs and won a gun.

[Chris_B]

As always the answer is "it depends". There is nowhere near enough info here to give a guess as to value.

To start with, is it a Government model or is it a United States Property marked pistol? The pistols that the US Military used were not, bizarrely, the "Government Model". The Government Model is the commercial model. The mysteries of marketing...anyway, we need photographs of the pistol to even give a ballpark figure.

I am also curious as to how it was determined to be in very good shooting condition

As for how you acquired it...I don't know the legal contortions, if any, for your location

[likearock]

To start with, is it a Government model or is it a United States Property marked pistol? The pistols that the US Military used were not, bizarrely, the "Government Model". The Government Model is the commercial model. The mysteries of marketing...anyway, we need photographs of the pistol to even give a ballpark figure.
I am also curious as to how it was determined to be in very good shooting condition

Its the Government Model like I said in my original post. It shoots great because Ive shot it and it shoots pretty straight and doesnt jam. I will see if I can get a camera and post some pics.

[Chris_B]

Thank you. I was not suggesting you did not identify in your previous post. However many people confuse the Government Model with the one the Military was issued. Since you are asking for assistance in determining a dollar figure, it seemed reasonable that you may not be aware of the many nuances that surround these pistols. I asked for clarification in case there was some confusion. The breechface on these pistols are not heat treated the way modern pistols are and Colt identified a problem with breechface peening in the mid 1930s, resulting in a design change that used a breechface 'plug' of hardened steel. Good luck with your new acquisition.

[bitttorrrent]

I would love to make a find like that. That is one place I have never thought to look!

People hide things in all different locations but that is pretty good. I wonder if its condition was a result of it lying at the bottom of a golf bag for years.

On that note, I think I'll take a look at my father in laws clubs..... I aquired them a while back after he passed and it was a huge old bag that my wife would not let me toss. I still use his putter - it was a 14k gold one he won somewhere at an event.

Doubt there is a gun at the bottom, but you never know.

[likearock]

Thanks for your reply. I spent about 4 hours on the computer researching what it was exactly and never really researched to see what it was worth.
I just, a few days ago joined this site and thought I would see what some of you thought. My dad is 88 and carried one similar to this in WWll and when I showed it to him, I got to hear all the stories again that he's told me about the war. It was great as always.

[likearock]

People hide things in all different locations but that is pretty good. I wonder if its condition was a result of it lying at the bottom of a golf bag for years.

I knew the guy that owned the property at the auction.(Passed away) I knew he golfed regularly cuz I golfed at the same club. Its my guess he kept it in his bag for protection...in his 80s...They sold about a dozen guns at the sale. No kids and his wife passed away about 10-15 years ago. I questioned the auctioneer when I saw him at a local diner in town about 2 weeks after the auction about the gun and he said its mine and shook his head and grinned.

[freenokia]

Now the funny part. I bought a set of golf clubs at this auction and when I got it home and pulled all the clubs out, this gun was in the bottom of the bag.


88yo man with a Colt 45 in his bag...Bet it was a set of Clevelands :D

[likearock]

Lol, forgot to mention he had a hustler magazine in there too:eek:

[lamarw]

Along with the condition, you will want to check the various components to see if they are correct to the pistol. The slide markings, hammer, barrel, grips and etc. are things you will want to verify as correct for the production period of the gun. These old guns frequently saw a lot of mixing of parts. Most serious collectors will not want one without the correct parts. Experts can even decipher if the parts were original to the gun in their appraisals. An incorrect slide or even barrel can reduce a two to three thousand gun to a six hundred dollar item.

Field strip the pistol and check each part with the pictures and narratives at this web site: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/1911infopage.htm

As another poster mentioned, a lot of the experts do not recommend shooting the old WWI era 1911's. This is especially true if you determine your pistol is correct and is a collectible gun.

It could be a nice find or a really great find.

[dsk]

I can only try to visualize this pistol in my head based on your limited description, but I'm going to guess that it's about 50% remaining finish with some light pitting. Value would be somewhere beteen $600-$800. The mint-condition specimens are valued in the several thousand dollar range, but not one with most of its original finish gone.

[likearock]

Ok. Thanks for everyones help. What would be your thoughts about getting it professionally restored? I know its hard to tell without seeing it. I might be able to get some pics on here in a day or 2.

I did make an error in my original post which I edited. I originally posted that it was made in 1917 when in fact after looking the serial number up again, it was made in 1913...sorry about that.

[lamarw]

There are only a couple of places wih the skills to do a proper restoration. They will probably look over the pistiol and advise you wheter it is worthy of restoration. It is a time consuming and expensive proposition. Check here: http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=81&page=1&sort=lastpost&order=&pp=20&daysprune=-1

Some of the old magazines with these pistols can be very valuable. You may wnat to check it out. I have seen just magazines listed for two to three hundred dollars.

A less than professional restorations is going to remove value from the pistol and cost you for the inferior restorations. There are times when the best thing to do is do nothing.

Sending it out for just a blueing or a coating will ruin the little value remaining with the pistol.

Some people have been known to break the gun down and piece meal it out part by part and finding the sum of the parts is worth far more than the whole. One buyer will be looking for a slide with the Colt Poney on the center of the slide and anogther buyer is needing a slide with the colt poney on the end of the slide. Since most pistols can not be restored to original, there are some buyers attempting to bring a pistol back to perios correct.

A couple of months ago, I sold a Colt Slide for over three hundreds. This was just the slide without any other parts.

[Auto426]

You can get the gun restored, but a proper and skillful restoration isn't cheap. It will likely cost more than the gun is currently worth, and when all is said and done the gun won't be in original condition and will be valued as such.

If you are willing to spend the money to get the gun back into it's original condition, then Turnbull is probably the premier shop when it comes to classic firearm restorations. I believe they have all of the old Colt roll marking dies and they can make just about anything look new again. It certainly won't be cheap though.

[likearock]

Good advice. Thanks guys.

[likearock]

Here ya go.
78784

78785

[WVsig]

If it was mine I would not do a thing to it. Keep it properly oiled so it does not rust anymore. Keep it in a humidity controlled safe and enjoy it.

[loose_holster_dan]

yeah. leave it alone. try to sell it to a collector. who knows, maybe you could get on pawnstars :D

[likearock]

yeah. leave it alone. try to sell it to a collector. who knows, maybe you could get on pawnstars

Yeah, I dont know what Im gonna do with it.

[WVsig]

Honestly it is hard to tell exactly what you have from the pics. I personally think it is not worth much more than $700 to $900. It falls into the category of a shooter unless there are details about the gun I am missing.

[Skans]

Sounds like its in what I call shooter condition. Scratched and pitted - original finish sounds like it's beyond gone. Not much collector's value (pictures would help). I'd say it's worth somewhere between $900 - $1,200. If parts have been replaced, then possibly less. I don't see that many really early ones, from 1913 - so I'm not saying there's no collector's value - there could be some, thus why my range goes to $1,200.

FWIW, I've been following the auctions on 1911's made from 1913 - 1919. Lots of folks like the military guns. I prefer the commercial version - better finish and finishing on the commercial guns....I'm just a sucker for pretty guns.:o There are some really nice commercial 1911's from that era that come up from time to time - strike price on those in excellent condition is $2,500 +/-.

[likearock]

I did post some pics in the 17th post of this thread.

[Skans]

Sorry, I didn't know you posted pictures. Nice old gun - military, not commercial. Folks expect the military guns from that era to have less finish. It actually has some finish on it - just well worn. Everything looks original - grips look as worn as the gun - original to the gun. Personally, I like the early 1913 date - but I don't know if that means anything significant to others.

I would not have that gun refinished. Clean it, lube it and put some johnson's paste wax on it. I think it might fetch $1,000 - $1,100. You've got to stay on top of the pricing on these old Colts right now, they've been going up - not the same as it was a couple of years ago.

[likearock]

Sorry, I didn't know you posted pictures. Nice old gun - military, not commercial.

It says Government Model on it. I thought that meant it was commercial?

[WVsig]

I am no old Colt expert but I believe that is a commerical frame and slide.

[ripnbst]

I'd put a 10-8 flat trigger on that, a Wilson Combat Skeletonized hammer and an extended beavertail and go to town.


Ok Ok, being serious heck yeah leave it alone. If that were me I'd be looking for a buyer at a gun show with a starting price of $3,000. I'm not into collecting.

[Skans]

I took another look - yes, I think its a commercial.

[likearock]

Ok Ok, being serious heck yeah leave it alone. If that were me I'd be looking for a buyer at a gun show with a starting price of $3,000. I'm not into collecting

Yeah, Im no collector either and would rather have something I can play with rather than something sitting around, looking pretty and cant play with
(no, Im not talking about my ex wife) lol

[Chris_B]

In my opinion, and the opinion of some other enthusiasts of these old pistols, the example you have is not something that should be considered a shooter. The metallurgy is not great. These examples are referred to as 'soft slide' models. Sufficient for it's time and that was over 90 years ago. As I mentioned, there was the breechface peening issue. Also, steel doesn't get stronger with age. It is your pistol and it may serve well for 5,000, 10,000, 100,000 rounds yet. Or it may manage 10, or one more. I urge you to look into the pistol more deeply, go to some collector sites and ask around. This is different from finding an old gun. This gun was old 50 years ago. My 1978 Colt is an old gun. My 1918 Colt is ancient.

edit-

From the photos, yes, this is certainly a commercial model- no "US Property" stamp. However, it has had the lanyard loop mainspring added. It also has a lanyard loop mag, which in itself is valuable

[WVsig]

In my opinion, and the opinion of some other enthusiasts of these old pistols, the example you have is not something that should be considered a shooter. The metallurgy is not great. These examples are referred to as 'soft slide' models. Sufficient for it's time and that was over 90 years ago. As I mentioned, there was the breechface peening issue. Also, steel doesn't get stronger with age. It is your pistol and it may serve well for 5,000, 10,000, 100,000 rounds yet. Or it may manage 10, or one more. I urge you to look into the pistol more deeply, go to some collector sites and ask around. This is different from finding an old gun. This gun was old 50 years ago. My 1978 Colt is an old gun. My 1918 Colt is ancient.

edit-

From the photos, yes, this is certainly a commercial model- no "US Property" stamp. However, it has had the lanyard loop mainspring added. It also has a lanyard loop mag, which in itself is valuable

By shooter I mean it is not in pristine collector condition and does not have providence which proves its originality. Yes the lanyard helps as does the lanyard mags if they are two toned as they should be.

You are right that it is not heat treated like today's guns but the OP has already stated he has shot it. Many people shoot these guns. We are not talking about 1,000 rounds but a few here and there. Yes it could blow up or crack. It could loose the front sight which is only staked and is prone to fly off.

My point was that this is not a $3,000 collector gun to my eyes. To the OP I would listen to DSK he knows what he is talking about.

[Chris_B]

By shooter I mean it is not in pristine collector condition and does not have providence which proves its originality. Yes the lanyard helps as does the lanyard mags if they are two toned as they should be.

You are right that it is not heat treated like today's guns but the OP has already stated he has shot it. Many people shoot these guns. We are not talking about 1,000 rounds but a few here and there. Yes it could blow up or crack. It could loose the front sight which is only staked and is prone to fly off.

My point was that this is not a $3,000 collector gun to my eyes. Listen to DSK he knows what he is talking about.

Why do I even bother trying to share information.

[lamarw]

I hear you Chris B. I think you and I have both warned the original poster. If he visits the Forum I linked he will get the same warning from the most knowledgeable experts in the world on M1911's & M1911A1's.

I have conducted considerable research on these old pistols and no longer shoot my 1918 vintage Colt M1911.

[likearock]

I have made the decision not to shoot this gun after learning of its age. Once I take it apart and make sure all parts are original and know what Im selling, I will probably put it on the market for sale or run it through one of the gun auction sites. I appreciate everyones replies.

[WVsig]

I have made the decision not to shoot this gun after learning of its age. Once I take it apart and make sure all parts are original and know what Im selling, I will probably put it on the market for sale or run it through one of the gun auction sites. I appreciate everyones replies.

That is a good decision not to shot it if you are looking to sell the pistol. Be careful when you take it down. Make sure you know what you are doing and do not mar or damage the pistol in anyway. If you are not experienced in taking down a 1911 I personally would not break it down.

Please do not misunderstand my post. I was not advising you to hit the range and shoot a lot of rounds through this gun. If I were in your shoes I would most likely not shoot it.

The term "shooter" which has gotten some people here all in a twist is often used to refer to older early 1911s which have some collector value do to their age but are not "collector" pieces due to their condition.

Knowledgeable people still shoot these pistols for example: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=352704 Does this mean you should? No it doesn't. By the same token just because lamarw and chris B have themselves all hot and bothered because I and other people in this thread used the term "shooter" doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot the gun. It is your gun not ours so you get to make the choice. Isn't that grand!!!! LOL

In the end it is up to the owner and the value they place on the pistol to determine if the joy of shooting a 100 year old pistol is worth the risk of breakage. On a side note IMHO people are paying way too much for these guns in todays market which if you are looking to sell it is a good thing for you. :D

[likearock]

WVsig,
I didnt take anyone post personal. Everyones going to have different opinions. Thats the nature of the beast when you ask a question publiclly. Not everyone is gonna agree. If everyone agreed, there would only be 2 posts to this thread, 1 question and and 1 answer. How boring would that be? Everyone that replied to my thread had valid points in their response and I appreciate the time you all took to reply.

[WVsig]

Likesrock I agree with that. I am not asking anyone to agree with me nor do I take any of this personally. I think others in this thread are acting as if there is a right and a wrong answer not me. Anyway be careful with your free pistol and good luck selling it.

[dsk]

As others have already pointed out it's a commercial model. Unfortunately however the ship has already sailed on that one regarding collectibility. It's a shame, because it appears to be in original condition aside from the obvious wear and tear to the finish. You didn't say (or else I didn't see you say) what the condition of the bore is like. Assuming it still has rifling in it I'd say the pistol is probably in the $700-$800 range. Still not bad for an old rust bucket, but a far cry from the $5000+ it'd have been if it were in 90% or better condition.

Regarding shooting it, while the issues related to firing old 1911s with their non-existent heat treating are well known, risking damage to a $700 firearm isn't likely to be considered an act of vandalism. I'd be more worried about the actual mechanical condition of the pistol, given the obvious neglect it's received. It really needs to be taken apart and cleand/lubed by a gunsmith familiar with 1911s who can properly assess whether or not it's safe to fire.

[KyJim]

Another option you have is professional restoration, though this is pricey. Doug Turnbull is the person for this. http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=19567&catid=19872

Here are before and after photos of one sample: http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=34633

[Chris_B]

Turnbull does some great work, for sure.

[WVsig]

Turnbull is one of the few who can increase the value on these older guns but you are never going to get more than what you paid to restore the gun if you choose to resell it which I believe is the OPs intention at this point. I personally think for people who have historical family pieces which they want to preserve he is the best option.

[gyvel]

Your best bet for an approximate value is to go on Gunbroker.com and see what similar Colts THAT HAVE ACTUALLY SOLD went for.

No offense, but, in general, commercial Colts sell for less than military ones, and the condition of that gun is, to be charitable, not that great.

I would say a realistic sale figure for that gun in that condition would somewhere between $800-1100.

[likearock]

Something I noticed on this gun compairing it to another 1913 I saw a picture of is on my gun, the words Government Model is stamped above the serial number. On another 1913 I was looking at, the words Government Model is stamped right of the trigger. Just wondering if anyone knew why. They both are CXXXX and between the numbers that suggest 1913

[Shadi Khalil]

Hustler and a gun! Jackpot!

[Stevie-Ray]

I bought a set of golf clubs at this auction and when I got it home and pulled all the clubs out, this gun was in the bottom of the bag. Crap, I wish people wouldn't do that. My BIL stuck my sister's Glenfield 60 in his golf bag for about twenty years. They finally gave it to me, but the bag did a real job on it. Looks like hell, but at least I don't take the blame for it's appearance.

[likearock]

Hustler and a gun! Jackpot!

Yeah, thats kinda what I was thinking.