View Full Version : Need advice: EOTECH or M-68 (Aimpoint)
globemaster3
January 31, 2012, 11:04 PM
I am looking for some first-hand experience from those who have used either an EOTECH HWS or the M-68 (Aimpoint Comp M2) on M-4 carbines in combat environments.
I have an opportunity to get qualed for an upcoming tour outside my primary field and was a little shocked when my supply troop gave me an option. I figured the USAF standard of M-68 with BUIS was the only option.
I've shot M-4s with both, but very little, and would appreciate some recommendations/suggestions.
I expect use in a dusty/sandy environment, day and night.
Please, I ask that if you wish to contribute second or third (or more) hand information that you, yourself, did not provide original thought for, don't!
fivepaknh
February 1, 2012, 03:16 AM
I used an m68 CCO while deployed. I liked it since I mostly served in the old Army when everything was iron sights. Though, it seems like the Eotech would provide faster target acquisition. Some in my unit had ACOGs. Most of those guys didn't like them.
Arizona Smithshooter
February 2, 2012, 11:14 PM
After a lot of research I bought an EOTech XPS2-0 for my M&P 15. It is very accurate, easy to Zero, and co-witnesses with my flip up iron sights. Mine does not have a magnifier, so any shooting past 200 yards on small targets is somewhat difficult. However, for close in shooting it can't be beat! It's a bit expensive, but I think it was money well spent.
Ridge_Runner_5
February 4, 2012, 12:07 PM
EOTech has the advantage of a larger view window
Aimpoint has the advantage of a longer battery life
AA battery model EOTechs have a tendency to discharge the battery, even when off. If you go the EOTech route, get an XPS model.
Aimpoints have a smaller view window, and their body is much clunkier and can take up more of your view space. I use an Aimpoint T-1 Micro now.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/cb05c7e2-1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/IMAG0063.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/IMAG0386.jpg
globemaster3
February 4, 2012, 02:55 PM
Thanks for the replies. Realize this is a military deal, so my Aimpoint choice is the M-68 (Comp M-2 I think) and I am not sure of the EOTECH model. I will try to look it up Monday.
Bud Helms
February 5, 2012, 07:52 AM
Let's try Art of the Rifle with this one.
Willie Lowman
February 5, 2012, 11:05 AM
After Christmas dinner my cousin showed me his personally owned EOtech that he bought during his first tour in Iraq (101st airborne). It is a 552 model. I can't recall the reasons why he went with that optic but he kept it with him for another tour in Iraq and one deployment in Afghanistan.
I won't share any third hand stories about the use that EOtech saw as the OP doesn't want to hear them. I will say from first hand experience that I know of an EOtech that spent 3 years in combat and still works as well as the one that sat in my safe the entire time. (it looks a little rougher though)
RT
February 5, 2012, 11:09 AM
I have both types and prefer the Aimpoints-- simple dot, great battery life, very robust(see video below).
https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
Achilles11B
February 5, 2012, 12:49 PM
I've used an Aimpoint on my second Iraq tour. Good battery life, robust housing, all in all, a good sight. I have an EOTech on my personal AR, while it hasn't seen the level of stress that the Aimpoint has, I love the reticle and wider field of vision. Hope this helps.
Mrgunsngear
February 5, 2012, 05:47 PM
I have use both at work as well brother. Depends on what type of fight you think is most likely. If you're planning on entering and clearing buildings or any other engagements under 25m, I think the EOtech is much faster.
I prefer the Aimpoint for anything farther out; I realize the EOtechs have the 1MOA dot in the ring but the Aimpoint allows ME to shoot more accurately at distance.
MTT TL
February 5, 2012, 09:54 PM
I can't really say that one is better than the other for combat. I like the EO more however. I used both on different tours. I will say that it is nice to only have to change your battery at six months (left on the whole time) as opposed to every month. The M68 is a little more rugged too. I did not see a single one break, saw a few broken EO's. Target acquisition is much faster though.
Hibby
February 5, 2012, 10:36 PM
I have an Eotech, but have not used an Aimpoint. The holographic sight made me aware of an astigmatism that I have, but it doesn't slow down my ability to rapidly acquire and fire upon a target at close range. If I were shooting at 200 yards and beyond, I don't think the Eotech would be my choice.
ronl
February 5, 2012, 11:06 PM
Both are good, but I prefer the EOtech. I think target acqusition is faster. Try out both and see which fits you best.
globemaster3
February 6, 2012, 08:35 PM
Huge thanks to Bud for moving the thread to get some more inputs.
And another huge thanks to you who replied with the good inputs I knew were out there.
Unfortunately administrivia qweep kept me from getting a read on the EOTECH model available through our supply channels. More to follow on that.
So, based on what I understand, what it comes down to is either better field of view with a possible disadvantage in robustness, or longer battery life with less field of view, and possibly more precision in aim point.
I wish I could give more input as to the application, but I flat out don't know. Mostly in the compound, but I will be making excursions via air to other locations. I guess the proverbial door is wide open as to application. Based on my skillset, let's hope its never CQB...
Now landing a 510,000 pound airplane on a 3,500 dirt strip at night on NVGs? I'll do that all night long and twice on Saturday! Airdrop 44 bundles full of ammo, food, and equipment on a FOB? Oh yeah, that gets me excited.:D
Being on the ground is a slight paradigm shift for me!:o
Ridge_Runner_5
February 6, 2012, 09:53 PM
The EOTech would actually have a more accurate reticle, since the center dot is 1MOA, whereas the Aimpoint is either 2 or 4MOA, likely the latter.
TimT
February 7, 2012, 12:23 AM
Used both in combat.
I prefer the Eotech, others prefer Aimpoints. My target acquisition is much quicker with the Eotech, and we weren't taking 300 meter shots. Most of our time was in palm groves.
I never had a problem with battery life, since one good thing our supply did was ensure that we had a boatload of batteries.
Both held up well, and I don't recall anyone breaking either. Made jumps with both of them (training only, no mustard stain for me) with both. No issues.
The bottom line is that I would try to use both, and go with whatever you prefer. I don't think either is better than the other, but they do have their differences. Try them out and see what you like.
MTT TL
February 7, 2012, 07:28 AM
Now landing a 510,000 pound airplane on a 3,500 dirt strip at night on NVGs? I'll do that all night long and twice on Saturday! Airdrop 44 bundles full of ammo, food, and equipment on a FOB? Oh yeah, that gets me excited.
I guess if you get mugged you can always drop a few pallets of MRE's on his head.
If you are out there as a TAC Air Party, focus more on your job and less on fighting bad guys. Everyone, including you will be much happier.
Achilles11B
February 7, 2012, 08:02 PM
Best advice I can give is to try get your hands on both, preferably next time you're at the range and put some rounds downrange. Failing that, maybe some friends can take you a civilian range and can help if they have the civilian equivalent of the sights.
Tempest 455
February 7, 2012, 09:52 PM
Can't tell you about the Aimpoint, but my Eotech is extremely accurate.
https://home.comcast.net/~ericdouthitt/DSCN7792.JPG
Marquezj16
February 7, 2012, 10:22 PM
I was issued one with an Aimpoint M68 for my last trip. It was the M2 variant. Went through qual, CST and the whole trip and loved it. When you are used to iron sights, it was almost like cheating. BTW, you can leave the front cover on and still use the red dot to engage.
MTT TL
February 8, 2012, 08:19 PM
BTW, you can leave the front cover on and still use the red dot to engage.
:confused:
Perhaps you mean the anti-glare? I don't see how you could shoot with the cover on.
Ridge_Runner_5
February 8, 2012, 08:26 PM
You shoot with both eyes open. You look through the optic with one eye, and look straight ahead with the other. Your brain superimposes the dot over your second eye, so it just hovers out in front of you. Like the crosshairs in a shooting game :)
It's called the Bindon Aiming Concept
Nitesites
February 8, 2012, 08:30 PM
BTW, you can leave the front cover on and still use the red dot to engage.Perhaps you mean the anti-glare? I don't see how you could shoot with the cover on.Oh yes. Very doable. And this technique has it's merits. Transition from a low light to a well lit area can cause the dot to wash out due to user setting. With the front cover on, the wash out effect is greatly lessened to almost nill. I utilize this practice this as well. Aimpoints rock!
Nitesites
February 8, 2012, 08:42 PM
The Aimpoint body will not hinder your sight picture at all. It should barely register. That's my experience anyway. Very fast and very repeatable.
MTT TL
February 8, 2012, 09:01 PM
Oh yes. Very doable. And this technique has it's merits. Transition from a low light to a well lit area can cause the dot to wash out due to user setting. With the front cover on, the wash out effect is greatly lessened to almost nill. I utilize this practice this as well. Aimpoints rock!
Me confused. I am thinking of rubber cap that covers both ends and has no holes in it.
http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv202/Winterborn1/itemsforsale023.jpg
If you can shoot with that puppy on you need to be wearing a cape.
Nitesites
February 8, 2012, 09:09 PM
Yeah...leave the rear cap OFF and the front cap ON. Try it. It works.
Added : Those flip caps look cooler though.
Added : If you can shoot with that puppy on you need to be wearing a cape.Oh ye of little faith...
MTT TL
February 8, 2012, 09:27 PM
Hmm, I will have to try it, sure would be nice to keep the dust off. Not sure I want to switch back to an M68 though.
Nitesites
February 8, 2012, 09:29 PM
Follow this link...http://ultimak.com/UnderstandingE-sights.htm. Go about 2/3rds down the page to the section titled "Washout". It explains in layman the phenomenon much better than I could ever hope. Derrrr...dribble chin mouth breather, I am.
MTT TL
February 8, 2012, 09:53 PM
I got ya, I see my confusion now was that you can not indeed see through the cap, but your mind projects the dot anyway.
We just used the polarizing filters on my team. I could not use that on the tour I carried the M68 because I wore glasses (pre-surgery) and they played hell at long ranges. So I just dialed the scope down to nothing at night and hoped for the best.
It was actually one of the top reasons I got surgery and threw the glasses away.
Nitesites
February 8, 2012, 09:56 PM
Yep Yep
Marquezj16
February 8, 2012, 10:40 PM
I did not even have to explain...man you guys are good. :)
cslinger
February 8, 2012, 10:51 PM
Own several Aimpoints, have yet to change a battery. All are built hell for stout. Like them very very much.
That being said I don't have a need, desire, dream, hope or fantasy of using them for serious social pursuits and count my blessings there are folks who do this besides me so the Eotech may be faster on target, for me however they punch paper very fast, very well and last forever. :D
Lloyd Smale
February 9, 2012, 10:30 AM
what he said. Aimpoint all the way. ive got a few aimpoints. My first was a c2 i bought 5 years ago and its been banged around on 4 wheelers and in trucks and the gun its on is on its second barrel but all thats been done to the aimpoint in 5 years is one battery replacement and that battery wasnt even getting bad when i changed it. I mostly did it because they claimed a one year battery life and after 3 i figured it was due. By the way this aimpoint has never been turned off more then a couple minutes at a time. I once saw a you tube video from aimpoint where they took a couple rifles out in a concrete parking area set up a couple targets at 50 yards shot both guns took the scopes off and skipped them accorss the concrete and then skipped them back again and remounted them and they held zero. try that with an eotec and see whats left of it. Sure nobody in there right mind is going to do that to a 500 dollar sight but it sure makes you a bit more confident that if your rifle falls over or gets dropped your still going to hit what your aiming at when you pick it up.
Lloyd Smale
February 9, 2012, 10:40 AM
Me confused. I am thinking of rubber cap that covers both ends and has no holes in it.
you dont need a hole in the front cover. just keep both eyes open and impose the dot on the target. I keep my self defense ar in the bedroom set up just like that. It keeps the dust off the front lense and works just as well at close range as having it off.
Crow Hunter
February 9, 2012, 11:31 AM
To the cover idea.
It works, BUT you will have some offset from POA/POI. The is due to the effects of phoria.
Different people have different amounts of it. Some people might shoot 2 inches to the left at 25 yards. Some might shoot a 1 foot to the left, you definitely need to verify this. (I shoot 2 inches to the left when I do it)
If you want to keep the dust off the lensese and still be able to use it, get the clear see through caps. You can get them from Aimpoint and they are very tough.
Lloyd Smale
February 9, 2012, 12:56 PM
crow hunter is correct. It will change poa enough that shooting at ever 25 yards might be effected to much but its more of an option for shooting to protect yourself in your home and at a matter of feet the change means nothing.
ROCK6
February 11, 2012, 08:29 AM
I’ve deployed with both the Aimpoint and the EOTech. I prefer the EOTech although both have performed quite well. On the Army qualification, was able to shoot expert with both of them, so not major differences for me. Battery life is great in Aimpoints, but I haven’t found that to be a big discriminator for me. I did have the adjustment dial fall off during a range session with my Aimpoint in Iraq…it made me really practice the BUIS use! That was a minor issue and was easily fixed…not the norm for as many CCO’s I’ve seen. If you get a chance, you really need to put a few rounds down range with both and decide. I know some saw the EOTech’s as ‘fuzzy’, but I never experienced that.
ROCK6
globemaster3
February 11, 2012, 04:51 PM
Thanks for all the great feedback.
Yesterday my supply NCO discovered he misread the code for the deployment requirements. Looks like I'll just get the M-4 with M-68. I have a qual date latter this month to shoot the new course of fire.
I am considering getting one for my AR at home to practice with a little more.
G3
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