Concealed Carry Questions ...

[AlBundy]

I have some questions about carrying a pistol in my car and/or on me concealed. I am 19, so obviously I can't buy a pistol from an FFL and I also can't buy pistol ammo. I already own a .40 caliber pistol that my parents bought me but I can't get my CHL or buy ammo until I'm 19. Does anyone know if I'm allowed to have my loaded .40 in my glove box, in a snapped holster? If not, what about a black powder revolver? What about carrying the black powder revolver concealed, would I need a CHL for that? I'm just looking for some sort of loophole so that I can adequately protect myself until I'm 21. Any help would be appreciated.

[WildBill45]

I am not familiar with Florida law. You can call, visit, or write the local DA, or ask about the local Gun Club, and get a Florida gun law resource to find out some of your question.

Warning: Most DA's may not know anything about Blackpowder guns, if they are considered a firearm, etc...

You are old enough go to Iraq and get blown out of your shoes, but can't carry a handgun at home ... that is pathetic, and I am retired L.E.!

[AlBundy]

Tell me about it ... I guess I'll just call around tomorrow and find out. Hopefully I'll never need it but it would be nice just for peace of mind. I don't live in the best place and I look really young so I look like an easy target.

[Shadi Khalil]

Your not blacklisted but you did post in the wrong forum.

[ijones]

You need to be 21 to carry concealed in Florida.
Here is the website you would use http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
I am not sure about just having it in the glove box or trunk.
You can contact them on that page to ask.

[Don H]

Have you looked through the Florida Weapons & Firearms statutes for the answers to your questions?: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2011&Title=%2D%3E2011%2D%3EChapter%20790

[AlBundy]

Whoops, didn't know I posted in the wrong forum ... If a moderator could move it for me or let me know what I should do I would appreciate it. I've called 3 different PDs and got 3 different answers so I don't know what I should do at this point. I don't want to just have it and find out the hard way that I shouldn't have, but I also want to have something. Man, I can't wait until I'm 21 ...

[derekb]

I'm actually really interested in whether there are any modern cases of people using a blackpowder gun in a self-defense shooting, and what, if any, repercussions that had for them.

[Oldjarhead]

Check out www.handgunlaw.com. Click on the map, the state of Florida. Should give you all you need to know.

[Tom Servo]

Start here (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC25.HTM&Title=-%3E2000-%3ECh0790-%3ESection%2025#0790.25), at subsection 5.

Looks like it needs to be encased and out of immediate reach of the driver.

To the best of my knowledge, Florida doesn't distinguish black powder pistols from other firearms when it comes to possession and carrying.

[Oldjarhead]

Sorry, it is www.handgunlaw.us. My mistake. Hope this helps you.

[Don H]

I've called 3 different PDs and got 3 different answers so I don't know what I should do at this point.
Read...the...law.

[Erikbal]

In NY state you can't even own a pistol under the age of 21. Just to go to the gun store and HANDLE a pistol you have to present your NYS pistol permit. I just went thru this today when checking out a S&W 9mm at my local gun shop. I was in there buying some ammo for my 380, which even that, buying pistol ammo, you need a pistol permit for.

[Aguila Blanca]

In NY state you can't even own a pistol under the age of 21 ...
???

He's asking about Florida ...

[hermannr]

I do know the BP answer. FL does not consider weapons manufactured prior to 1898 as being firearms.

Does that mean if you were to strap on a drop leg holster and an original Colt 1873 manufactured prior to 1898 you would not be stopped and questioned?

Oh you would be stopped, but you would not be breaking the law (assuming you could prove the manufacture date. I'm not positive how FL handles reproductions.

[Don P]

I'm just looking for some sort of loophole so that I can adequately protect myself until I'm 21. Any help would be appreciated.

The loop hole you are looking for does not exist. CCW black powder will get you a felony and then all guns go by-by and to never own a firearm again.

Looks like it needs to be encased and out of immediate reach of the driver.

In a container with a lid on it. Tupperware would work on the passenger seat as long as the lid was snapped on the container. Immediate reach is another INTERNET myth like the need for a holster with a thumb break in the glove compartment.

The law reads as long as the person can legally own the weapon then car carry in the state of Florida is legal as long as it is in a closed compartment, (glove box, center console, Tupperware container) Just remember the lid/door of the compartment must be closed/on in order to meet Florida statute law

[Erikbal]

I know what he was refering to I was just making a statement, sorry....

[hermannr]

Don P: That is not how the law reads: 790.001 definitions:

(1) antique firearms

(2) Concealed Firearm (Firearm defined below in (6)

(3) Concealed weapon....

(6) “Firearm” means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term “firearm” does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.

Does this mean you will not be charged? No, it just means you are not breaking the law.

BTW: I was wrong, FL uses 1918, not 1898 like the Feds to define an "antique"

[Don P]

Does this mean you will not be charged? No, it just means you are not breaking the law.

Isn't this statement contradicting itself? If you are breaking the law how can you be charged. Regardless of the opinions in this thread how many posters are willing to test the waters about CC'ing a black powder pistol without the permit? How much would it cost to beat the rap?

[AlBundy]

Thanks for all the replies guys. This whole thing is BS. No cop is going to tell me one way or the other so I'm just going to have to find out the hard way I guess. I can legally own a .40 but I can't buy the ammo for it so if I got stopped I'm sure that wouldn't go good if it's loaded, and it will be because otherwise I might as well just spray paint a bb gun. The black powder pistol seems to be a good idea but if I can just have my .40 I don't want to spend $200 for no reason. I don't really care about concealed carrying anything but I really do want a gun in my car. I just think that it's too dangerous now a days not too, especially where I live. I guess for now I'm screwed and I won't have anything and if something bad ever happens my dad can show the threads I've started on here and sue the living crap out of someone. I can go to Iraq, operate multi million dollar equipment, get shot at and possibly killed but I can't have a pistol in my car. Unbelievable.

[Don P]

Al this is from a book published by a lawyer, Florida Firearms Law,Use & Ownership By Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq.
According to Florida law and federal law any citizen of the age of 18 years, or more, who is not under some other legal disability, may possess or own a handgun,rifle, or shotgun so therefor you can keep it in your car while you travel as long as you follow the law as far as vehicle carry is concerned. You just can't have any ammo for it

web site for the book is www.floridafirearmslaw.com

[AlBundy]

So, just to make sure I understand, if I have my loaded .40 in my glove box in a snapped holster that would/should be legal? My only concern is because it would be loaded and I can't buy ammo I could get in trouble for that ...

[Disinclined]

Al

I guess it all comes down to would you rather be dead or filling out paperwork.
Carry it in your car & pray you never need it. What do the Fl laws say about carrying a long gun in a vehicle?

[AlBundy]

I'm not really sure ... I think I'm allowed to have them but if I got stopped I'm sure that a loaded 12 gauge in my back seat would cause problems lol. If I'm only allowed to have it in my trunk or something then it's useless. I don't even care anymore, I'll figure it out. I appreciate all the responses though. The day I turn 21 I'm getting my CHL.

[Aguila Blanca]

Does this mean you will not be charged? No, it just means you are not breaking the law.
Isn't this statement contradicting itself? If you are breaking the law how can you be charged. Regardless of the opinions in this thread how many posters are willing to test the waters about CC'ing a black powder pistol without the permit? How much would it cost to beat the rap?
The statement is not at all self-contradictory. We see posts/threads almost daily about people being arrested and charged for alleged offenses which prove not to be illegal at all.

The law is very clear: Carrying an "antique" firearm is not illegal in Florida unless the carrier uses it in a crime. So it is not illegal. As the later portion of your question asks, do we expect the average police officer to be aware of that distinction? Probably not. He'll see a gun and make an arrest. It may take a land shark to get the charge dropped, but it would have to be dropped because the law is very specific.

The crux of your post is the valid point of: Who is willing to be the test case? I know what the law says, but I also know that I can't afford the expense of testing it.

So that's how you can be arrested and charged even if you're not breaking the law.

[Aguila Blanca]

So, just to make sure I understand, if I have my loaded .40 in my glove box in a snapped holster that would/should be legal? My only concern is because it would be loaded and I can't buy ammo I could get in trouble for that ...
Does the law say your father can't give you a box of .40 S&W ammunition? I think if you check you'll find that you can't buy it, but you can receive it as a gift. I'll almost bet that the law does NOT say you cannot possess handgun ammunition.

[MLeake]

I don't get why people are saying he can't have ammo.

He can't buy handgun ammo until age 21, and he can't buy a handgun from an FFL in Florida until age 21.

He can certainly OWN a handgun and its ammo at age 18 plus in Florida; I did a couple decades or so ago. (Unless the law has become stricter, which I don't think it has.) I bought a GP100 in a private sale at age 20, and my mother used to buy .357 or .38 for me to keep it fed.

Not a lawyer, though - and it's always a good idea to get legal advice from a lawyer where you live.

(But he can own both the gun and ammo, and he should be able to keep it loaded, in his closed glove box.)

No on-the-body CCW until age 21, in FL, since FL requires one to be 21 to get the permit.

[Don P]

He can certainly OWN a handgun and its ammo at age 18 plus in Florida; I did a couple decades or so ago. (Unless the law has become stricter, which I don't think it has.) I bought a GP100 in a private sale at age 20, and my mother used to buy .357 or .38 for me to keep it fed.

From what I read from the book I posted about in post 21 he cannot buy the ammo.
As far as muzzle loaders Modern Muzzle loading, Inc. V. Magaw 18 F. Supp. 2d 29 Dist. Columbia 1998 and Bostic v. State 902 So. 2d 225 (Fla. 5DCA 2005)

if I have my loaded .40 in my glove box in a snapped holster that

The handgun does not have to be in a snapped holster. Another one of those FLA myths

[5R milspec]

one thing that came to mind.you may be able to carry if your on your way to say fishing or hunting.here in SC I carried in my glovebox my dads little 22.( at the age of 15 )when I got to the place I wanted to fish or hunt I put it on my side ( open carry )now 20 years latter the law still stands.but the pistol has to stay in the glovebox while in the car/truck and when at the fishing or hunting spot it then can be carried on the side.

this law is written in our fishing /hunting guid box( laws ).so you may be able to do the same.you just need to look to see if its a law under your fishig/hunting laws.

if so just make sure you are on your way to a good hunting or fishing spot.:Dthis is what I always answered to when asked why I had a pistol in my glovebox.and yes,I was pulled a few times for speeding with the pistol in the glovebox.I would just tell them it was in the glovebox before I went for the pappers he wanted.

[MLeake]

Not being able to BUY ammo is not the same as not being able to OWN or POSSESS ammo.

Unless FL has changed, he can own or possess it.

[XxBulletBendeRxX]

I understand your circumstances and think that once 18 you should be able to make your own decisions as an adult. Sure its legal that you have a pistol and ammo that has been gifted to you, that is fine and within the law. I know Being able to carry a pistol is comforting, esspecially in a bad area, [B]BUT[B], IMO I would not risk carring any firearm on your person weather it be, in your car, (glove box, under seat, etc.) open carry or concealed til you are 21 and get your carry permit. If you were to be stopped, and arrested you would never be able to do want you want to do in the near future. Even if you are correct, its probablly not going to stop the arresting officer to "do thier job." Police always say that they are just doing there job and you have to let the courts decide....... I know a couple years may seem like forever but we all had to wait til that 21st b-day to drink booze, buy a pistol and all other things "adults" 21 and over get to do LEGALLY.
:rolleyes:
Best of luck..... B.B.

[MLeake]

You don't need a permit to have a gun in the car in Florida.

The OP is in Florida.

Advice about other states doesn't pertain, unless he's taking a road trip.

[Aguila Blanca]

Not being able to BUY ammo is not the same as not being able to OWN or POSSESS ammo.
I agree. And stated as much a few posts above.

[MLeake]

AB, I wasn't responding to your post, but to some subsequent ones. You and I are in agreement; I suspect the ones who disagree haven't paid attention to either of our posts, or looked at the Florida laws on possession.

[MLeake]

Since I don't like to give bad advice, I decided a look-up was in order. Turns out my advice in this thread has been accurate... IE I remembered the laws correctly from when I lived in Florida, a few years back.

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer. For definitive answers, ask a lawyer. However, here are links to Florida statutes and regulatory guidance:

From http://handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf section on Florida:

Florida
790.25 Lawful Ownership, Possession, and Use of Firearms and Other Weapons
(5) Possession In Private Conveyance.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
790.001 Definitions.--As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

While we're at it, there's a good review of Florida's Deadly Force laws on the Florida Dept of Agriculture website (Ag handles concealed permits in Florida, for some reason):

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

[AlBundy]

Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it.

[MLeake]

Just remember, you would be legal in Florida, but crossing state lines could put you in potential legal jeopardy.

Check http://handgunlaw.us/ for starters, then figure out what agency controls firearms permits for any state you want to visit, and look up that agency's guidance on its official website.