.222 to a .223.....or good enough alone.

[darkman]

I will preface this by saying I am not a collector and I shoot everything I own.
Upon the death of my father, all his guns went to me. One in particular, is to me, an anomaly........222. I know this rifle was purchased in the late 60's, it is a Remington, the action is a 40X and it has a very heavy, Hart Barrel. There is an extremely long Redfield Scope that was purchased at the same time. This rifle, I know has less than 20 rounds ever put through it; I was with him that day at the range. My fathers health diminished soon after he purchased and never took it out of the box again. I feel like a bull looking at a bastard calf..........I don't know if I should rechamber for .223 and shoot it........or just leave well enough alone and sell it.........or bite the bullet (no pun intended) and shoot it. I am not a re-loader and have tried to trim my gun safe down to .308, .223, 9mm and .45. along with my milsurps. All thoughts and comments welcome. Any idea how much this rifle would be worth on the market?

[emcon5]

Keep it and shoot it. Start reloading.

On edit, .222 and .220 swift are very different animals.

[jimbob86]

Keep it and shoot it. Start reloading.

On edit, .222 and .220 swift are very different animals.

All the more reason to reload for it.

Keep it, or at least keep it in the family.

[mrawesome22]

The 222rem was considered the most accurate cartridge in the world at one time.
Shoot it and be glad you have it:)

And if you find 222remmag ammo, don't buy it. It is a different cartridge than 222rem.

[dummy]

I would sell it myself. Dont care for those kind of rifles or for that cartridge.:eek:

[FrankenMauser]

If there isn't a lot of sentimental attachment to the rifle, just sell it.

If you are somewhat attached, re-chamber it to .223 Rem.


I am a big fan of .222 Rem and .222 Rem Mag, but they aren't cartridges for people that don't reload.

[upstate81]

If it was me I would keep it and shoot it! 222 rem is a great little round. If nothing else it was your fathers all the more reason in my book but I'm weird with family stuff like that.

[RC20]

I would hold onto it for now and not modify it.

Shoot it if you want.

It may have some serious value so do not jump the gun just to get something out of the way.

At worse sell it to someone who will treasure it and carry it on.

It like crushing old cars, they have heritage and history and even if not worth big bucks its a crying shame to loose them.

[old roper]

If it's an early 40x should have the blue barrel.

Hart made trigger 2oz trigger for Remington (Mike Walker) in the early years and there was always question on barrels from Hart and the early 40x had heart stamp on some 40x barrels for the 22rimfire/centerfire late 50's. 57/58.

In the 60's they started changing the 40x with different models the 40XB and 40XBR.

40x have certain collector value depending on model and options. Last year I sold the last two I had one was the heavy 40XBR other light 40XBR and I got more for the light 40XBR it was a 6x47 with 2oz trigger and it had the box and paper work (test target).

I would shoot the rifle as is and I won't change a thing on it enjoy what your Dad liked

[Gehrhard]

Sorry for your loss.

If you don't need the money, keep it. Shoot it or not. That's a special gun AND it was Dad's. But DON'T let it own you. Yeah, you will want to reload if you shoot it. Might be a good excuse to get some basic reloading under your belt too someday.

However, if cash is king as well as the clutter factor applies (which I appreciate especially if small spaces and/or married), find someone special, a good home, and sell it at a fair price. As I said it is special and many a benchrestish/varmint shooter would LOVE that rifle, and respect its provenance.

None of those thought-out paths are wrong or even better than the others my friend.

[Steel Talon]

Keep it as is.....

[Abel]

Just buy some 222 and shoot it!

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?categories_id=10480&inc_subcat=1&products_type=AMMO+RIFLE&manufacturers_id=&caliber=222+Remington&bullet_type=&pricerange=&rounds=&x=60&y=5

[johnwilliamson062]

Rechamber it to 223 and love it.
Your father bought it in the late 60's when 222 was a round with a bright future.
The 223 was picked by the military and the 222 faded.
If your father bought a similar rifle today I bet he would buy a 223 not a 222. I doubt you will offend him.

I had a similar problem with a police positive in 38 SW. I would re-chamber it to 38 special, but the heat treating isn't right, so it wouldn't be safe.

[Shotgun693]

I had a similar problem with a police positive in 38 SW. I would re-chamber it to 38 special, but the heat treating isn't right, so it wouldn't be safe.

You could have replaced the cylinder.
.38 S&W is still available and fairly popular with those that still shoot the old Pocket Breaktops.

[CTS]

I would re chamber to .223. It seems like it should be a fairly simple job. The rounds are so similar in dimensions.

[Tom Matiska]

The problem with a simple re-chamber of the original barrel you're going to have a 223 with a 1-14" twist. Ammo availabilty(that works with that twist) will still be limited and the advice to start reloading will still apply.

The 222 is the most accurate round I've ever shot or reloaded for. Buy factory ammo and enjoy it a little, or start reloading and enjoy it a lot..... then re-barrel to whatever round(and twist) a few thousand rounds from now when it stops being the most accurate rifle you've ever owned.,

Tom

[hivel37]

If you don't appreciate it for what it is, sell it to somebody who does.

[CTS]

The problem with a simple re-chamber of the original barrel you're going to have a 223 with a 1-14" twist.
Good point. I didn't realize that 1 in 14 was the standard twist rate of the .222. Why such a slow twist?

[Nathan]

Tough decisions. . . .Why not just shoot it? You should be able to find 222 ammo. . .I would shoot it and own it because it was my dad's. Other's have mentioned the pitfalls going to 223.

Selling it is fine, but due to the 222's lack of current popularity, wouldn't fetch enough to be worth selling to me.

Good luck, tough decisions, but there are no wrong decisions.

Also, starting reloading is not a bad idea. I do it to keep my oddball and mainstream caliber's happy.

[FrankenMauser]

Good point. I didn't realize that 1 in 14 was the standard twist rate of the .222. Why such a slow twist?
The cartridge was originally intended for bullets no heavier than about 45 grains. As such, a 1:14" twist rate was good enough.

Only when a few more "modern" .22 caliber cartridges started getting heavier bullets stuffed into their necks, did the faster twist rates become more popular. When the .222 Rem was in its prime, a 1:14" twist rate was standard for a .22 caliber cartridge (from rimfires to the .220 Swift).

[emcon5]

You edited out references to the swift, so I assume it is a .222 Remington. A re-chamber to .223 is certainly possible, but as was mentioned, depending on the twist of the barrel, you may be limited to 50gr bullets

There are lots of options in .222 ammo, some are quite affordable.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&sortby=1&itemsperpage=20&newcategorydimensionid=9784

[CPTMurdoc30]

I love the 223 I have 2 of them.

that being said. If I could lay my hands on a 40X in 222 and I had the cash I would snap it up in a heart beat.

the 222 may not be as popular as the 223 but it will out shoot a 223 any day of the week. That cartridge ruled the roost till the 22 and 6mm PPC cartridges knocked it off the block.

It is worth from $190 in 60% condition to $550 in 100% condition with sights. and $180 to $495 without sights.

I myself would not let it go though.

Here is some history on the 222 rem.

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/222.html

[bobn]

223 brass resizes nicely to 222. 222s shoot really good. just a touch less crack.
sorry to sound redundant but i would ditch the 223s instead lol. bobn

[DnPRK]

222 Rem was THE benchrest cartridge prior to the 6PPC.

The popular load was a 52 grain Sierra match bullet over 24 grains of IMR 4895 and would shoot 0.2 inch, 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

I wouldn't dream of re-chambering to 223 because the twist rate is wrong for modern 223 bullets.

[HiBC]

One thing I am not clear on,was the rifle purchased with the Hart barrel,or did your dad have it put on?

In either case,the rifle is an expression of a whole process of creativity by your dad.It's not the common off-the-shelf.He had reasons why it is just the way it is.

Before you do anything I suggest you subscribe to Precision Shooting,maybe The Accurate Rifle for a year.Just read the magazines.Maybe you can read old ones online if you subscribe.Rifle might be another good mag.

With a little immersion in this material,you will be able to enter and understand what your dad was doing.You will learn the place the "triple deuce" holds with serious shooters

I strongly recommend you leave the rifle as he intended it.In time,you would regret modifying or selling it.It is "in balance" .

That twist factor previously mentioned is important.I met a guy had an XP-100 he said would not hit a mattress at 100 yds.I said I think it will shoot inside 2 in at 100.He brought it to me.He brought 55 gr whitebox 5.56 military ammo.Bullets went through the target sideways.

A .223 rechamber with 14 in twist! I loaded him some 52 gr MK's and put 10 rds in a group 1 1/4 high and 3/4 wide....at 200 yds.

All well and good,but most .223 is loaded with 55 gr or heavier bullets.Lighter bullet loads are harder to find and probably more expensive than .222.You won't get what you are trying to achieve.

Re-work:Without writing a whole lot,its easy for a smith to run the reamer in and deepen the chamber,but!!!!What is in the original chamber was done all with the .222 reamer,and a pilot riding the lands of the rifling.Likely by a highly skilled rifle maker with a new,sharp reamer.

Your smith,who is rechambering,has a .223 reamer.He has used it a number of times,and its likely a good,stock reamer from Brownells.

On a rifle like yours,critical to fine accuracy,is the leade and throat.It has to just exactly cut the lands of the rifling down to the grooves,and not a bit more.Perfectly concentric,no flaw.

Sometimes,maybe,you will get a very good job.Odds are,the leade/throat will show flaw with rework.

For now,just try.Get a set of Forster Benchrest dies,about $60.

If you want to go real cheap,get Lee's little bench press or even the little hand press outfit for $35

Get a powder scale and a couple load manual.Ask questions here.

I think you wll find you are shooting groups you can cover with a coin,very soon.Likely a dime.

I bet that rifle,as is,will shoot grapes for targets at 100 yds.With good handloads.

[Gehrhard]

The M-16 .223 (5.56 x 45) was originally designed as a 1:14" gun with fast 55 gr. heads wasn't it? HAVE to buy premium fast ammo or reload tho for that gun in any case if you get it rechambered.

Still, that is only one of many options and not really the default choice...

Hey, can we see a pic please?

[emcon5]

Unless he is planning on shooting Winchester White Box or American Eagle through it, (which would be a fricking crime through a Hart barreled 40X) good .223 ammo is about the same price as good .222 ammo.

Lots of options under $20/box.

[Picher]

My .22-250 had 1/14 twist and stabilized 55gr and under bullets very well.

This rifle is a specialty rifle that, except for curiosity and value to you as a pass-down rifle, will probably eventually bore you to death with it's accuracy, unless you get into competitive benchrest shooting. You wouldn't be competitive unless you learn a heck of a lot about handloading and buy special loading equipment for the sport. It's an expensive sport and shooters often change barrels almost yearly. The caliber isn't tops for BR accuracy these days, but more than adequate for entry-level shooters and can be re-barreled easily.

I recommend advertising it on benchrestcentral.com Classified section. More benchrest folks will see the ad and new shooters may pay a good price for it. You might try to sell it, without scope, for $900-$1000.

[B.L.E.]

Would having a gunsmith rechamber it really cost less than a simple single stage press and a set of .222 dies plus a scale? And as emcon5 pointed out, .223 is only cheaper to shoot if you buy white box ammo meant for semi auto lead sprayers.

[jrothWA]

the .222 chamber MIGHT be a minimum specs and the .223 would eliminate that.
Also nothing turn accumulators off fast is seeing the XX-out chamber and another stamp/marking. That bring into the equation, how well is it done? and what spec were used?

The case head diameter is same the action should handle the longer case, not sure if a magazine change is needed???

I'm looking for a .222barrel for my 1978 Contender for varmints, only thing I can find is a .22Hornet but then I destroy a good barrel in rechambering or find a 14" .222Rem pistol barrel and permanently add an extension for making a legal rifle barrel.

REloading may be best way, as the price for two boxes ammo, you could get a quantity of empty brass.

[HiBC]

Original twist on M-16/AR-15 was 1 in 12,not 1 in 14.

Assuming a 45-52 gr bullet,what is it that a .223 will accomplish that a .222 will not accomplish?

In other words,what would the return be?(example,using actual ballistic data,what would be the increase in maximum effective range on something like a prairie dog,or a bulleseye on a target range,or a tin can?)

If you reload,save your brass with your bolt rifle,you will get a lot of loads from a case.For the cost of two boxes loaded rounds you can have 200 virgin brass.That is 100 to shoot from and 100 to reload or have ready loaded.

If you get the collet neck sizing dies from Lee,you may never have to buy cases again .If you bought a 500 lot of brass,for sure you have brass to last the peak accuracy life of the barrel.

You'll get 350 or so loads per pound of powder,so about 7 1/2 cents.3 1/2 cents a primer.We're up to 11 cents.Add a bullet for 15 to 20 cents.Brass is about $22 a hundred,but with good loading practice you will get 10 loadings,easy.So,another 2 1/2 cents brass cost.You are still under 35 cents a round.If you do your part,it will be premium quality match grade ammo tuned for your rifle for $7 a box of 20.

Another plus,your equiptment will load ammo for the rest of your centerfires.

[johnwilliamson062]

You could have replaced the cylinder.
.38 S&W is still available and fairly popular with those that still shoot the old Pocket Breaktops.

Sort of the same problem OP has with rebarreling, at $250 for a Police positive in VGC by the time I get a cylinder and have it fitted+timed, and as an old Colt it will need to be fitted, I will have either exceeded or at least approached that mark. No matter what caliber the gun is in I am not going to shoot it nearly as much as I shoot my other 38s. By the time you compare the price of bulk 38s to a box of 38 S&W there is a bit of a difference. Plus, I am basically not going to use the gun for anything chambered in 38 SW when it is bigger than some 357s.

Why is the 222 "more accurate" than 223? My understanding is the long neck allows re-loaders to seat the bullet extremely far forward so it basically starts up against the rifling. If you aren't reloading, and reloading at high precision, my understanding is it is NOT more accurate. If there is no way out besides reloading or re-barreling, I would prefer to reload for a round I shoot a lot(223 in your case), then reload for a round I don't otherwise shoot. You can make a few small changes to your set-up and reload for the AR or whatever it is you have up your sleeve.

Sounds to me like if you keep it in 222 you will just let it sit, which does not make sense unless you have a sentimental attachment to it.

Maybe you shouldn't listen to me though, I admit I have made a lot of expensive customizations that lowered the value of the gun(not to what I put into it but to what it was before I started messing with it) and the few I didn't like I took a pretty good hit on. Of course, my favorite guns are ones that worked out the way I wanted. I have a single shot shotgun i am having a smith work on(and doing some small things to myself) right now, and I hope that when i am done i have a gun I can carry in the woods for all sort of game for the rest of my life.

[darkman]

Gentlemen
I am constantly amazed at the wealth of knowledge on this forum. I appreciate all your comments and suggestions. I think I can say I will not re-chamber but leave as is. I can say it is definitely a bench rest model as it is a single shot amongst other things. I can remember that day at the range and at 300 yards it was a "tight" group.........I do not remember the exact grouping measurement but only that my father and his best friend and shooting buddy were astounded with the results. After much soul searching I will clean it up and store it for now. Money is not the issue...............I would love to donate this gun to a youth, benchrest, organization and have the rifle put to it's proper use. I am still amazed at the weight of the thing. I have not had the Redfield scope that goes with it out of the box but that would be donated as well. If any of you could reference or are involved with an organization that could use this firearm; please let me know. Knowing my Dad as I knew him.......he would want it to go to someone that would put it to it's proper use.

[skywag]

You don't need to go out and buy a whole bunch of reloading equipment.

Just buy this: (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Reloading-Loader-Kit-222-Remington-90231-Complete-Reloading-System-NIB-/120834993085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2253abbd#ht_500wt_1144)

You will be surprised at how much fun $28 will get you.

EDIT: Wait.....get THIS (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEE-Loader-kit-222-Remington-very-good-condition-/190622480870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c61fc39e6#ht_500wt_1144) one. The other looks like it has some rust on the long tapper.

[Gehrhard]

Dark, wonderful sentiment, but, and this is just my opinion, but that is NOT a youth gun/scope to be donated. No. That gun you sell to a good home -- a good person and shooter who is looking for that particularly. Youth is wasted on the young and so would that gun IMO.

[igousigloo]

how much do you want for it? And I will put it to its proper use.