How Do I Tighten My Groups???

[Proud Poppa]

I have been shooting and plinking for years, more with rifles than handguns however. Recently I picked up a full sized M&P 40 and my groups are all over the place at only 10 yards. Right, left, high, low, and even a few lucky ones in the bullseye :confused:

What tips can you guys give that would help me tighten my groups to one nice ragged hole?

[drail]

Practice dry firing and concentrate HARD on the front sight. Pick a small target (a light switch works) so if the front sights moves off of it even a tiny bit you can see it. If the front sight moves when you make the shot, then you're pulling the gun off target. The old timers would make you place a dime on top of the front sight and you practiced until you could cycle the gun without having it fall off. You must grip the gun exeactly the same way every time you hold it. Don't grip it like you're trying to choke it to death. Pull the trigger straight back each time. If you apply pressure to the trigger at any angle other than straight back you will pull the shot off target. When live firing concentrate on with a sharp focus on that front sight. The rear sight and the target will be a little fuzzy, it doesn't matter as long as that front sight is crisp and remains motionless. It's really not difficult but it takes practice and concentration.;)

[nate45]

For starters move closer 3/5 yards and slow down your rate of fire.

Try shooting it at five yards off a rest and slow fire at a small target like an inch or so in diameter. When you start making tight groups like that start shooting at that same spot, at the same distance off hand.

A lot of people want to make tight 25-50 yard groups with a handgun, but it doesn't happen over night.

[Tnglock]

How many pistol's did you shoot at the range ? The first thing i would do is do some dry firing to get use to the trigger. Then do some more practicing and go from there.

[rtpzwms]

So with what you've said left, right, high, low. I can think of a couple of things. most here have addressed one. Consistency which takes a lot of dedicated practice.

Second is the ammo. Are you using the same ammo every trip or just picking up what ever is on sale today. If you're looking to hit the bullseye or close up your group even the ammo has to be consistent. So with a rest, start testing the ammo for what works in you're pistol. This is more about knowing what doesn't work for the group size you want. If it can't shoot a good group from a rest there is no way you'll ever be able to do it freehand.

[Sgt.Fathead]

10mm Short aka .40S&W is rather snappy. I'd say yes to all of the above and, gee whiz, what have you got against 9mm? :rolleyes: That was a friendly barb, I shot .40S&W for a few years exclusively in my chosen semi-autos. I've gone to 9mm from a standpoint of wanting to shoot the same caliber and platform as my wife and she prefers 9mm which is fine with me. I like to rib!

I'd also advise shooting some shots from a rest to insure that your sights are 100% dialed in. Then proceed with proper grip, trigger control and sight alignment/sight picture. The much smaller barrel length and sight radius can throw long time long gun shooters off. Say, you aren't drinking caffeinated beverages before you shoot, are you? Don't laugh, it makes a much bigger difference, at least for me, between long guns and handguns especially and shooting in general.

Good luck!

[Hal]

Quit trying for "groups".

Pick a spot on the target to hit, then aim for that exact same spot with each shot.

Also - quit looking over the sights to see where your shots are hitting.
Keep your focus on the sights and check your hits only after you've shot a full magazine.

Here's the hardest part - tell yourself all your shots are going into the same hole & make yourself believe it.

[k4swb]

Also - quit looking over the sights to see where your shots are hitting.
Keep your focus on the sights and check your hits only after you've shot a full magazine.

This is good advice. My wife keeps worrying about the next shot and where the brass is going. The latter is my fault.

What I have her do when this starts is to do one shot at a time.

Take aim for one shot and shoot it. Lower the gun, relax and then take just one more shot at the exact same place. Concentrating on just the one shot each time.

This is not as fun for her as blasting away but it makes her slow down and shoot better.

[coop2564]

consistent grip pressure and it should be very tight, squeeze and try to keep sight on target thru the shot.

[BfloBill]

I realize it's not the same handgun, but I once owned a Glock 23 and was all over the place with it. I had no confidence with it (which is not good for your main carry gun) so I talked myself into believing it was the gun and sold it.

Since then I was trained on the Glock 22 and shot fine, and purchased a Glock 26 for personal carry. During my training I realized (with the help of a good instructor) that I was WAY overgripping the trigger.

If you were consistantly bad, but grouping it's one thing. But if you are all over the place (like I was) I would pay attention to your grip/trigger finger consistancy.

The previous posters also make good points, if you are worried about it, you probably are "peeking" between shots.

[OEF-Vet]

In Army Military Police school they taught us the Push pull method. When you get in a comfortable stance with your feet pointing towards your target you should index "point your trigger finger at your target" then take aim while pushing forward with your shooting hand while slightly pulling back with your support hand. This will help you to stabilize your weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsTU_mD_Z70[/URL]

This is the only link I could find the instructor doesn't mention indexing but you will notice his trigger finger is up away from the trigger pointed at his target along the slide.

Best of luck and happy shooting.

[kraigwy]

PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the USAMU Pistol Marksmanship Guile.

Yes its one handed, but its all about fundamentals and the mental game. Every thing in the manuel will transfer to your action or self defence style shooting.

Regardless of what you shoot, you have to have the fundamentals down, not better book on pistol shooting then what's put out by the Army Marksmanship Unit, best shooters in the world,

The .pdf manuel is free, all I ask is that you share it with others.

[Mrgunsngear]

If you understand sight picture/sight alignment then there are only a few options for you to work on. Trigger squeeze/press and speed.

If you can dry fire without moving the front sight then you understand the concept and can perform the task. That said, I've seen a lot of shooters, particularly with .40s, try to anticipate the recoil and 'push' the trigger. If you're doing that, it's just a matter of focusing on the task at hand.

Also, accuracy is a relative term. If you want to be more accurate, slow down. Most defensive shooters try to find the balance between speed and accuracy. I tell my students if they're keeping their rounds inside the size of a handprint at any given distance they can speed up. If they can't get that kind of group; slow down.

The good news is that practicing and getting better is fun :D

[1goodi]

I agree with most of everything. The .40 is a snappy cartridge. KeeP shooting and get comfortable with the pistol and the cartridge. As for general pistol shooting invest in a .22 auto. This has been my best teacher so far in regard to technique, safety, and precision. Plus .22 is cheap and fun.

[Proud Poppa]

Thanks for the info so far guys. I definitely see some things that I am doing wrong:



Most likey I am anticipating the recoil from the 40.

I do not use the same ammo each time.

I probably do not take enough time between shots.

I know I jerk the trigger. I am new to these Striker fired guns and their triggers. More used to traditional DA/SA and SAO.

I do peek over the sights after 2-3 rounds to see where my rounds are landing.



Great info, keep it coming!!!

[TxFlyFish]

Load all your mags with random number of rounds less than 5. Without looking into the mag window randomly load the mags. Focus on each shot as if its the last round out of the mag. This has been for me the easiest way to discover my flinch and correct it.

[BfloBill]

TxFlyFish- Excellent reccomendation! My Dad used to love handing my brother and I a gun during target shooting that was partially loaded or empty when it was our turn and we were expecting a fully loaded weapon. It will help correct flinching.

[Jammer Six]

300 rounds a week for two years.

[HBoswell]

You can download the Pistol Marksmanship Training Guide from here----
http://www.archive.org/details/UsamuPistolMarksmanshipGuide
Download from the left side of page in various formats.

[frigate88]

Well I'm a firearms instructor for my police dept and we carry the M&P .40. The thing with those guns (being a light polymer gun) is a lot of people tend to pull the trigger shooting off to the left if they're a right handed shooter or the other way if they're a lefty. Since youre all over the place best thing to do is start close at about 3-5 yards till you're used to the sight picture. Also trigger control is a must. You want to squeeze the trigger not pull it. You want the shot to somewhat surprise you when it fires. Try putting a quarter or any thing small you can balance by your front sight and dry fire the weapon with out knocking it off the gun. That's just a little info I can give you with out seeing you shoot. Good luck. Keep shooting.