Need advice on a HD rifle...

[ThorInc]

I am a novice shooter and gun owner. My current HD firearm is a Mossberg 590A1 but I am looking to add a rifle as well. I have researched for hours and have come up with a Winchester 1894 Short 30-30. I am leaning towards level actions but I need advice in deciding. My research indicates the 94 new is seriously expensive and it is also not made locally. Any advice or criticism is welcomed.

[Willie Lowman]

There will be many who will tell you that nothing less than a AR 15 or AK 47 type rifle will do for HD.

I don't think this to be true myself. Lever guns are great guns. If it was me, I would look at the Henry .44 mag carbine.

[jhgreasemonkey]

I keep my Winchester 94 .30-30 handy. In my opinion they make a fine HD rifle. Light, quick, handy, and aim naturally. You're right the new Winchesters are pretty expensive but you can find nice used model 94 .30-30's all day for $400ish. The post 1964 era top eject models are pretty affordable. Mine was made in 1970 and came with a black chrome finished reciever and steel buttplate (they came this way for 3 years, after this they had an alloy reciever which sometimes develops a purplish tint and is hard to refinish. Not a big deal, they work fine but something to keep in mind if you care about this and are looking used. I personaly have only seen this on some very well used models made throughout the 70's). Since the half cock safety is kind of odd to use, I keep the chamber unloaded and if I need the rifle I can cycle a round into the chamber in no time. If a safety is important to you, in the 1980's they started coming with crossbolt safeties and were angle eject as opposed to the earlier top eject. Angle eject made for easier scope use. (top eject meaning the shell ejects out the top of the reciever and back over your head, angle eject the shell ejects off to the right. And just a side note, snooty collectors don't like the models with the crossbolt safety but like others who like to use their guns I think they're fine and better than the half cock.) Check out www.gunbroker.com Also I wouldn't rule out the idea of a Marlin 336 .30-30 either because you can get the base model with the birch stock for about $400 new, they're a little more bulky but tend to cycle really smooth. Either way is a good choice and I usually see used .30-30's in the local gunshops for a reasonable price. Good luck to you.

[ThorInc]

I thank you both for your great advice. Off to do a little more research :).

[5RWill]

1911 .45 acp, 12 guage (00 buck or slugs), AR 15, AK47, FAL.. take your pick.

[Drummer101]

M1 Carbine sounds nice.

[ronl]

Many types of rifles to fit that bill; AR, AK, lever actions, Mini-14/30. Take your time and handle all of them and see what fits you best. I wouldn't sweat it much because you already have the best HD weapon around.

[trg42wraglefragle]

M1A, with a decent scope, just for the off chance you need to take out your attackers while they're still 400yards away.
You've got to be prepared for everything.

[Sparks1957]

My standby is my Ruger PC9 carbine.

A bit heavy, but solid and reliable beyond question. 30-round magazine as well.

[mrawesome22]

Pretty hard to beat a shotgun for HD.

[Zhillsauditor]

Pretty hard to beat a shotgun for HD.

No doubt. I don't think of my rifles as home defense weapons, but, ifn' I felt I had to, I would go with my AR.

However, if price is an issue, I'd suggest a Mosin Nagant carbine. Only holds four rounds, but the 7.62x54r is a powerful round, and it has a nice long bayonet for sticking people with. Out the door with ammo for less than $200.

[L_Killkenny]

If you want to get a rifle "just because" I'm all for that but thinkin you need 2 guns for HD is backwards. You'll never have the opportunity let alone the need to use them both. After all, how many hands do you have?

Pick a platform and the shotgun is one of the best.

LK

[MrDontPlay]

Kel Tec sub2000 might be my choice. Already have a shotgun and an AK though.

[AirForceShooter]

I am not a fan of rifles for home defense.

The problem is penetration.

You could easily wind up shooting to the next house not to mention the next room or 2.

Stick with the shottie

AFS

[Art Eatman]

If penetration is an issue, tactics and probable scenarios are a part of the package. But, not everybody has to worry about neighbors or others in the house.

Seems to me that (assuming skill) in a defense situation, rapid fire would be a possible need. That's the main reason for semi-autos. Lever actions would be a distinct second in that situation.

[ThorInc]

Keep 'em coming guys, I have not made any decisions yet and thanks again to all that have given advice!

[Lateck]

You have had a number of good responses..

One I would throw out would be a shorter Lever Action carbine.. In .357 :)
Easy to maneuver. Not super powerful, but there is enough! The lever action's sound is like the pump shot gun's, everybody knows the sound...:eek:

Most hold 8~10 rounds....One can also load .38 Specials

Here's mine:
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x465/Lateck2/Long%20guns/th_1894SS357-LTD7.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/albums/x465/Lateck2/Long%20guns/?action=view&current=1894SS357-LTD7.jpg)

Lateck,

[Mrgunsngear]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG0559.jpg


I keep this one bedside. It's absolutely reliable, more than accurate enough at any HD distance to take head shots should that be needed, and can utilize any accessory you want. An AR would work as well but I just have more confidence with AKs. I keep Hornady Vmax rounds in it for dependable 13-15'' penetration.

[tirod]

For home defense, most Americans in general, and LEO/Mil in particular prefer handguns. Rifles are not generally as well suited to interior defense. They serve a better role defending the home from intruders at a distance from the house, and penetration of outbuildings, vehicles, and other cover would be preferred. That's exactly why the issue milspec ammo for the M16/M4 uses a steel core.

Handguns do a better job when the intruder is within the room or adjacent room, shotgun for interior defense, rifle for exterior defense. In a rural or suburban scenario, it's much more likely if mayhem is spreading in the neighborhood.

You can wear a handgun in a holster around the house and property, even doing things like operating a chain saw, where a long gun is inconvenient.

Which rifle is best is an endless game of situations and favorites. The best to get is one you bought to go shooting with, especially if it's a live game rifle, like for deer. You'll use it more, shoot it more, and be more familiar with it, which makes you better with it. There's less guessing about range, it's familiar. Being good with it is much more important that what it is - an unfamiliar gun little used probably won't cooperate as well and get hits.

20 million prior servicemen could suggest the AR15, we've carried one and shot it for weeks and even months. The rural shooter might like the Win 94 for exactly the same reasons. The defender has a three to one advantage as battle historians have researched extensively, but I don't know of any one rifle available in hunting use that has it over other guns three to one.

Most personal confrontations end in less than four shots, usually from handguns. Rifle confrontations might last up to 35 - at which point a hit or common sense intrudes, and the risk is too much. At that point, you'd have to ask if sheltering the Cartel hitmans girlfriend was really that good a decision. Point being, most home invasions by armed individuals are continued conflicts brought to the home. Defend against that, and the risk is substantially reduced.

[GeauxTide]

My .357 4", using the Federal 357B load, shot though a dresser mirror, through the next room and broke a stud. A 30-30 would shoot through your house or apartment. Your 12 guage, using 7.5 shot is perfect.

[White Mamba]

I won't use a rifle for HD. It's too easy to shoot through the walls & kill a family member or neighbor. All I use is a 12 Gauge Pump Shotgun with #9 shot. It will turn a human into hamburger meat & the psychological terror of hearing one get racked into the chamber will chase most intruders off.

[44 AMP]

You can think of it as a "home defense" rifle, but reality is that in a home defense situation, the only time you should use ANY rifle is if it is the only gun available at the time.

Inside the house, any handgun, even a pocket gun is easier to maneuver (doorways, etc) and outside the house, how do you justify shooting at ranges where a rifle is needed?

THe shotgun is very popular, although having the long gun's disadvantages inside the house, the lack of long range penetration is a benefit. Defensive shooting is a short range proposition. It is an extremely rare situation when it isn't.

Now, if the rifle is going to have another use (pest control, hunting, target shooting -formal or informal), and still be somewhat useful in a defensive situation, thats a bit different.

The Marlin lever guns (or Winchesters when you can find them) in a pistol caliber (.357mag, .44 mag, etc) are find handy guns, and while not as handy as a pistol inside the house, are much better than a bigger "hunting" rifle.

And they have the plus of NOT being a handgun, something that might be important depending on the laws where you are.

I gave my father in law a Marlin 1894 carbine in .357 one Christmas, for protection when he went camping. He wasn't a real gun person, but he loved the gift. Carried it in his camper for years on their trips. And he never had to worry about the laws in different states about handguns.

[ThorInc]

Thanks for the information and experience guys. I have decided to acquire another shotgun and also a handgun.

[Ridge_Runner_5]

Pistol caliber carbine would be my suggestion. Something like a KelTec Sub2k or HiPoint carbine in caliber of your choice.

[BUFF]

........:rolleyes:

[Bamashooter]

Using a rifle is fine for home defense if thats what you want to use. The issue is the ammo. You need to find some frangible ammo or varmiter style ammo that will break apart on contact and not overpenetrating. You have a great home defense weapon now with your mossberg. I would look at the frangible ammo thing if you want a rifle caliber or maybe you could get a pistol caliber lever action or semi auto which I think you would be better served using.

[nate45]

All I use is a 12 Gauge Pump Shotgun with #9 shot. It will turn a human into hamburger meat & the psychological terror of hearing one get racked into the chamber will chase most intruders off.

Nice, you got two fallacies into one sentence.

Bird shot is not generally recommended for defense and even those few who do advocate it suggest #4 or larger, certainly not #9.

The chamber of a defense shotgun should be kept loaded not 'racked' to scare an intruder.

The reasons are first its slow and second it gives away your location.

What if when you 'scared' the intruder he responded by firing his weapon in the direction of the racking sound?

[Ridge_Runner_5]

^^Thank you

[Mrgunsngear]

The argument that you should use a handgun for HD over a rifle due to overpenetration is absolutely false. Problem is, it seems like common sense. That's why it gets repeated over and over and over... But, real world ballistics suggest otherwise.

This is just one site that has a ton of links based in science and actual shootings, not just what some guy on a forum thinks....

http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

Basically, if you use HP or soft point modern rifle rounds, your penetration will be roughly the same as a JHP pistol round. The difference is the temporary wound cavity and ft/lbs you will hit the bad guy with. IMO, if you're in a defensive position (i.e. calling the police from inside your bedroom) you can't beat a rifle or shotgun (not with birdshot, but on that note---00 buck penetrates more than almost all handgun calibers...). If you're clearing rooms to get to your family members, perhaps a handgun would be best. It's comes down to your comfort level and expertise with the platform.

[jason_iowa]

Its hard to use a lever action 1 handed. Never know when you could become disabled in a home defense situation.

Shotgun is a fine option for home defense and every home should have one imo. However nothing you can legally shoot from a shotgun will defeat body armor. Same for handguns.

I have an AK 47 for my main defense weapon for the following reasons
#1 easy to operate with one hand for 30 rounds anyway
#2 will defeat body armor
#3 epitome of reliability
#4 bayonet makes a useful tool and a strong deterrent against someone attempting to disarm you. Bayonet will also defeat body armor.
#5 since ill most likely never need a home defense weapon its cheap and fun to shoot

Get something you will take to the range and get comfortable with and hope that you never need it for its intended purpose

[L_Killkenny]

All I can say is "WOW" Jason. WOW, had to say it again, couldn't help myself.

LK

[Art Eatman]

See Post #23.