Is a .22 lr quality for animal attack defense?

[MrGreen]

Such as a rattlesnake, pitbull, coyote? I don't expect it to have the firepower to stop a person, but what about these other animals that might get aggressive?

[dalegribble]

how good a shot are you?

[MrGreen]

Sorry, wrong section.

I am an OK shot I guess. IDK?

[Indi]

I wouldnt use it againts big dogs. I carry a shot shell for defense against small animals like dogs and snakes. But my one shot shell is backed up by 4critical defense (38spl) in case it doesnt work. The only problem with the .22lr i see is that your shot placement better be great. My CCI shotshell have a great spread at 10 feet.

[Stressfire]

rattlesnake

how good a shot are you?
Pretty much, they make snake shot for a reason

pitbull, coyote

If it was all you had and had a clean shot at the skull, maybe.
I'm sure it would do the job but I wouldn't try it unless, again, it was all I had.

Sniping a coyote or loose dog trying to invade your chicken coup is one thing, but going against an animal that has had its fight response triggered and an adrenaline dump that goes with it might be a different story.

And - in before lock:D

[MrGreen]

Maybe I would need a 9mm for a pittbull attack.

[GUNSNGOLD]

i have witnessed a single 22lr round drop a 300 pound hog like a sack of potatoes many times, shot placement is everything, this is point blank within 5 yards right between the eyes on a domestic pig

[kaylorinhi]

Would the .22LR work against Prey-driven/malicious canines of any type? YES, with out a doubt, the question is are you willing to let them get that close before you squeeze the trigger. In my two experiences the canines both stopped just short of being shot because I stood still and was aiming instead of running(no prey response on a stationary target). Also my family was with me so I stayed put while they backed away so it would get me first and not my family.

Cheers

[Kreyzhorse]

A .22lr can certainly stop even a large critter if you place the shot in the right spot. However, even with smaller critters I'd want something that gives me a little more room for error.

[Mobuck]

I carry a 22lr Ruger pistol as a "chore gun" on the farm. With a fencepost rest, I can hit the 8" gong @100 meters with 80% of my shots and 90% of those with the first shot. This is theoretically good enough to hit a coyote's chest same distance. I doubt the bullet would carry enough energy to reliably kill the animal at that range but I don't care that the coyote runs off to die later. If a positive kill is required, I'm going to get a lot closer and I won't shoot just once.

[4V50 Gary]

Moved to more of a weapons & tactics issue forum.

[9mm]

Depends on how much ammo you got. You can take a bear out with the right shot placements, though I wouldn't do this or want this for SD if it was charging me, but say like you are in a tree and it was blocking you from escaping.

[farmerboy]

Maybe a chihuahua but not a pitbull

[Discern]

Precision head shot from a rifle with high velocity .22LR ammo, the right bullet and the proper angle - yes.

Attacking animal - no.

[farmerboy]

And as far as the shot shells, better be almost point blank. They really just make noise and spread so fast. You can't hardly kill a small bird or a ray at about 10 yards or more. Around here people ( some people) shoot their coon dogs when treeing something other than coon. Just peppers them. I sure wouldn't want those for SD ammo

[Dr. Strangelove]

Not that anyone here said it was, but the .22lr cartridge isn't a toy or a kid's gun. It is not a 1st tier self defense weapon, but it can certainly kill when needed.

Not meant as a huge endorsement, but don't think the .22lr isn't deadly.

[farmerboy]

Killed alot of deer with a 22. Out to about 90 yds I'n the head. No they're not toys but if i had my choice and say a charging coyote , believe me not my first choice. And especially with shot shells!

[briandg]

Here is my take on it.

Anything you can hit with a pistol in a defense situation is too big to be defending yourself from with a .22.

Can you hit a running housecat with a .22? IMO, anything bigger than a housecat or small to moderately sized dog will need more than a .22 lr to disable.

Simply put, are you expecting to be attacked by anything over 15 pounds? get a larger pistol. You WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY get hurt if you try to stop a dog with anything less.

Of course, granny smith's toy poodle may roll over and start to whine if you put a bullet in its tail, but many of the small terrier breeds will take that bulletin the spine even, and come back for more if they are really enraged.

[BlackFeather]

Um, well, I don't expect someone to be carrying a single shot .22 for defense against an animal. Having more than one round makes a big difference in this case. That having been said, I've had to put down a couple cats and even a Fox with a .22, I always used more than one shot. Yes, a round in the head is likely going to stop an animal, but you WILL have to be able to make a follow up shot, or more if you miss. If you HAVE to kill the animal, don't let it suffer. Animals move fast, at short range you may be better off with a contact weapon.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Animals move fast, at short range you may be better off with a contact weapon.

I can say with conviction that an old school wooden tennis racket will repel a house-cat, and make him actively avoid your property. When I was about 8, my neighbors' giant tomcat attacked my pet cat and I beat him with a tennis racket until he fell into a shallow creek with steep banks and he got away.

Turns out that the cat belonged to friends of my parents, when we went to eat dinner there or whatever, that cat would take one look at me, hiss, and run. They never could understand, because he was such a "friendly" cat. He never did step foot on our property again...;)

[federali]

I know what you're referring to but you have firepower and energy confused. Firepower is the ability to but a lot of lead in the air in a short period of time. Energy is what it takes for one of those bullets to accomplish whatever it is that needs to be accomplished.

[Dwight55]

My son and I own two Browning .22 seim auto pistols. Both are extremely reliable, easy to use, and have 10 round mags.

No, . . . I would not like to be faced with a charging Pitt bull or coyote, . . . if that was my only weapon choice, . . . but I really do not feel that I would be at any great disadvantage.

I can put 10 rounds out of either of them in a 3 inch circle in a very short time, . . . and 10 rounds of .22 LR hollow points is going to take the edge off their desire to fight in just about every case imaginable.

I have said many other times, too, that I would not feel at all under gunned with either of our Brownings, . . . if some knuckle dragging thug wanted to attack me and I had one of them. He would get 10 rounds of .22 LR hollow point, . . . aimed directly at his nose, . . . and there is no doubt in my mind at all, . . . whatever idea he had about fighting me would evaporate as little lead slugs hammered his head. There is no place on the human face that even a half baked blow does not hurt, . . . much less 10 of them delivered in only a few seconds.

Don't worry about the .22, . . . it can hold it's own.

May God bless,
Dwight

[JimPage]

My experience is that the 22 is not very effective against 'yotes. Yes, it's possible to kill them with a 22. But on those that I retrieved that I had shot with a 22 I found several 22 bullets tangled up in fur. On the other hand, I did retrieve them. :D

(That was using a semi auto rifle)

[Mike1234]

I'd trust a .22 WMR far more than a .22 LR against larger dogs and coyotes. Have you considered the Kel-Tec PMR-30? For snakes, I carry a walking stick or garden hoe.

[MikeGunz]

I would think if you were to hit a pitbull with a 22lr chances are it would leave you alone after

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJymaLQVjsk

Cop probably hit the dog with eith a 9mm or .40 cal but I bet the dog would have the same reaction from a 22lr.

[dyl]

I just watched that video. Very sad. Was it wagging it's tail out of submission at the end or reflex? Some dog owners need to step up to the plate with their training.

Food for thought:

If you are able to carry a 22 of a given size, depending on the gun you may be able to carry a larger caliber without anymore burden than the 22 would have been. That way you'd be covered for a wider variety of situations too.

That is unless you go for something like the NAA guardian (difficult to operate quickly) or one of the Taurus 22's. Or unless recoil on irritated joints is an issue.

Best of luck to you.

- Whoops, commented on the wrong video. I had followed a link to where 2 policemen had to put down a restrained dog with 2 shots, not the one where the dog approached the policeman as linked. It didn't look like the dog was charging since it was moving pretty slowly but I guess those dogs weren't where they were supposed to be!

[C0untZer0]

+1

Sniping a coyote or loose dog trying to invade your chicken coup is one thing, but going against an animal that has had its fight response triggered and an adrenaline dump that goes with it might be a different story.

Yes there are hunters who kill big hogs with a 22LR, but they have the advantage of surprise and picking their target and taking careful aim on unsuspecting prey.

Totally different ballgame when an animal is charging at you. The other thing to keep in mind is the attack may totally take you by surprise. I had a dog charge me once at night and because of the visability I didn't see the dog until he was almost already on top of me. His owner called to him and he broke it off. He actually started his charge about a half block away - I just didn't see him.

You can get taken by surprise from behind or by animals coming out of bushes...

My opinion is you're going to need something to make up for how difficult shot placement is going to be - either a really powerful round or something that shoots multiple projectiles.

[Seaman]

Pit Bulls and coyotes have killed people.

Wouldn't want to try and stop a charging dog (in attack mode) with a 22 cal handgun.

Trail gun used to be a S&W 29, but switched that out to a mild mannered S&W 22-4 revolver (45 ACP).

Why take a chance with a 22 when a 45 will do, your life is worth it.

At a minimum...a 38 spl or 9mm.

[farmerboy]

Go ahead and carry a 22 and if it doesn't stop the threat immediately you can always beat them with the gun!

[chadstrickland]

Grew up using a .22lr and never once felt like it was a toy or "not powerful enough" a large part of that is due to when that is the only thing you have you learn to hunt and base your stratagies around your weapon. Had more than a few encounters with coyots than i care to have had and killed alot of coyots with a 22lr and it dropped them grave yard dead and rarely took more than one shot. Also after the first one goes down the others rarely i mean rarely stick around. They are usualy more scared of you than you are of them. I have also killed a charging german shepard with a ruger mark 2, waited until he was about five yards away and shot two shots back to back at his head, one hit him square between the eyes and the other went into the middle of his shoulder blades...the head shot was a instant kill. I have shot charging wild hogs, snarling coyots, alligators that didnt like me playing on there mudslide at the river ( i was just a kid and didnt know what it was ) loads of snakes and lots of other things with a 22lr.



However i will say this. In my personal opinion a 22 is a great offensive caliber and if you are and only if you are a very good marksmen is it a good defensive caliber. The reason it isnt my first choice of a carry gun is that i think ( which i may be wrong ) is that if i am ever in a position where i need to pull my pistol then i am in a serious "oh crap" situation and may not have time for that perfect shot or i may not have the same steadiness as when facing a charging animal ( i am sure it is different when you are looking down a gun barrel ) to get that perfect shot off. so if all i can manage is a gut shot or something then i want the biggest and most powerful handgun i can get to do the job as best it can. just me though :)

[briandg]

one of the important points to my mind is that in this sort of defensive situation, as well as in hunting, a second shot is not always going to be possible. Imagine if you will, a dog, large or small, coming at you rapidly, and you have maybe a second to decide. you have maybe one more second to draw and get ready to fire. At that point, charging bear, charging dog, cat, so forth, it may already be on top of you. You may have only one shot, and you can count on the fact that after your free shot, the animal will be engaging in high speed evasive maneuvers, hit or miss.

So, if the banger down the street has a really antisocial rottweiler that he has let out, and it's bearing down on you, I suggest that a 22, and the single round that you may be able to get into thethings body, is just not going to do it.

If you're someone who can pop out a 22 pistol and empty a magazine into a moving target in a few seconds, then yes, a .22 is good enough. Otherwise, you need something that is going to disable the thing with a single body shot.

[m_liebst]

I've got a ruger 22/45 5.5 inch barreled pistol. With Velocitors I'm shooten 40grains at around 1200 fps. 10 rounds and literally no recoil + a red dot for very easy aquisition.

I know a lot would say its just not enough to be sure... but I'd be very happy indeed to hold this type of power in my hands. I'm certain that just one of those slugs crackin against the noggen of a a pit or rott would cast immediate changes in it's intentions, if not killing it.

Yes I'd rather have a .357 mag etc. but the .22lr is no toy or joke.

[orionengnr]

I don't expect it to have the firepower to stop a person,
Please understand and use your terms correctly.

A .22 has plenty of "firepower", which is defined as number of rounds.

"Power" is altogether different. A .357 Mag or a .45 acp has "power", defined as lb/ft delivered on the target.

To take the definitions to their logical/ludicrous conclusions, a 100-round BB gun has maximum "firepower", while a 105mm Howitzer with one shell has maximum "power".

No matter how you look at it, two entirely different things. I would not use a .22 to shoot anything larger than a paper target, or a squirrel.

"Words mean stuff."

[Bamashooter]

What ChadStrickland said. The .22lr is plenty of gun for most of your shooting chores IMHO.

[skeeter]

I would say a .22 would be a tie with a sharp stick.

It would work if you hit the pit bull straight on in the middle of the skull otherwise it would glance off where as a 45 would glance off too if not in direct line with skull but it would hit MUCH harder giving you a chance for a second shot.

[bikerbill]

Agree with Mike1234 ... my issue with .22lr is the number of failures I've encountered with several handguns, including from Smith and Ruger ... I carry an NAA Pug on dog walks for animal defense; have never had a .22mag fail to fire ... ammo is more expensive than .22lr, but far less costly than 9mm, so you can practice a lot ... and there are .22mag shot cartridges available, I've never used one ...

[L_Killkenny]

There are a lot of cases where a .22lr is as good as anything else but can't think of any time it's better. Personally, I think all the worry about critter attacks is so over blown it's not even funny. And that's coming from a guy that had to fight off 3 heelers at the same time with nothing but my feet and hands. Ten rounds of .22lr would of been nice, 6 from my .32H&R or .357 just as good or maybe even better. Personally I wouldn't worry to much about critters and a .22 is a fine woods bummin gun for that little extra when needed/wanted.

LK

[ltc444]

I shot a rabid coyote in my front yard. Hit three times with a 22 lr. It ran off after I shot it. Game and fish recovered it and had it tested.

In Ar while fishing the Ouachita River and the associated swamps and Ox bow lakes we had a problem with cottonmouths dropping into the boat. The solution was a 45LC/410 single shot derringer. The 410 would kill the snake but not put a hole in the boat.

I still carry the derringer for snakes when working my property. I also carry slug loads, and a special reload loaded with 3 100 grain 30 cal plinkers per round.

[Wyosmith]

There is the ideal and there is the real world
The best gun for any specific job is....wells, the BEST the closer you get to that "ideal" the better for that job.
HOWEVER>>> any gun is better than no gun for any threat. I would not recommend going out and buying a 22 LR for defense against dogs, but I would not tell you it's worthless either.
If I KNEW I was going to have to defend myself or another person against a dog I'd be caring a 12 gauge autoloader loaded with #4 Buck Shot.
But we don't usually KNOW when we will need a gun.
I live in Wyoming near places where bad bears are not at all uncommon. I carry a 45 auto or a 357 ever day, but if I leave the ranch and the area, and I go up in the mountains where the bears live I switch to my 454 Casull. If I were to have my 454 in a town and got attacked by a pit bull I am sure I would use it, but I would have to be concerned with the fact that the 370 grain LBT bullet exits moose and Bison so it IS going to exit a Pit Bull. My 357 would be a better weapon, but I'd use what I had at the time. If I had a 22, I'd use that. If I had the 44 mag, I'd use that. If I could get to my 270 I'd use that

My point is that any gun is better then no gun. If you have one, use it until you get something better.

[L_Killkenny]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone have a links to articles where any animal except a bear or moose continued to severly maul or kill a person in N.A. after being shot with any gun? After decades of reading hunting magazines, shooting magazines, watching the news and the internet I've never heard of such a case.

LK

[farmerboy]

I know of a hunting trip when i shot a feral boar hog I'n the shoulder with a 30-06 and when i went I'n to retrieve him I'n thick cover he jumped on me and was eating my a-" up when i shot him a second time I'n the face at point blank to end him. So yes, you go ahead and use a 22. If that's all i had i would too but I'n a scenario with a charging animal give me a 357 or a 40 cal

[farmerboy]

Listen, Ive heard of certain neighbors who have bad dogs and for some reason these neighbors dont ever seem to keep their dogs put up in their own yards. (bad neighbors) And then you have to worry about walking up and down your own road or your children playing outside in their own yard. So for those bad neighbors, dont ask them about their dogs and if youre worried about shooting their dogs if they are threatning you but youre worried about being prosecuted (Iwould shoot them in a heartbeat and have, without being prosecuted. The Sheriff told me that even if the put a toenail in my yard to drop them). Anyway, Ive always heard that a can of dogfood and go to the store and get gopher bait (grainules) put a handful in dogfood. mix with a stick drive by at night and chunk can out and dogs love it. In 5 minutes problem solved and then some of these people on here who say youre bad and dont have to shoot a dog can no longer say that because you didnt shoot a dog. Atleast I heard the dogfood works in 5 minutes. Give or take a minute!

[Stressfire]

Ive always heard that a can of dogfood and go to the store and get gopher bait (grainules) put a handful in dogfood. mix with a stick drive by at night and chunk can out and dogs love it.

More offensive than defensive. Pun intended.

Taking out an unfriendly animal on your own property is one thing, but this...ya know, I don't even know where to start, so lets just go ahead and let previous statement say it all...

Edit to maintain firearms relation: .22s fine for most nuisance applications

[Merad]

I don't think I'd want to rely on a .22 for any kind of defense. I've never had a reliability issue from a .22 pistol... but .22 ammo is another story. Been way too many times that I pulled the trigger and just got a click... dud rounds.

[Sixer]

Interesting question...

About 3 years ago two of my (female) friends were out for an afternoon walk. Towards the end of their walk they were approached by a Pitbull. The dog attacked one of the females and had her pinned on the ground.

Luckily the other friend happens to be a competitive target shooter and they were just outside of her home. She immediately ran inside ad grabbed her pistol, a .22lr semi-auto. Upon returning, the attack was turning pretty vicious. The pit had ahold of a leg and was intent on keeping it.

At nearly point blank range, the friend with the gun fired 6 shots to the head of the pitbull. The first 5 shots didn't even phase the dog as it continued to attack. I remember her mentioning that she didn't think the rounds were penetrating the skull at all.

The 6th shot dropped the dog for good, but not before it did some significant damage to the girls leg and thigh area.

A few things I took from this situation... always carry your gun! They were lucky to be so close to home. A .22lr may well drop a good sized animal, but it also may not. Those "odds" are not good enough for me. There are plenty of good centerfire pistols that are small enough to carry ANYWHERE.

I'm not taking my chances with a .22 for SD/HD firearm. I'll save my .22lr's for plinking and squirrels ;)

[Mike1234]

You're killing "every" animal that eats your poisoned bait. What's the sense in that? IMHO, it's just senseless killing and downright lazy.

I wouldn't use a .22LR unless I didn't have a better choice, e.g. 9mm or .45 ACP, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so given the "proper" circumstances.

[farmerboy]

Mike you should try when you're reading to understand what you read. I personally said I'd rather shoot a bad dog myself! And i said I heard that a can of laced dogwood also works wonders on bad dogs. Either way if you're a responsible dog owner you shouldn't have to worry bout this anyhow, right? And if you live down the road from me and you have mean dogs and can't keep or fail to keep em I'n your own yard and one night they end up dead and there's a empty dogwood can I'n your ditch then it's probably not me! But if my kids or myself is walking down the road and your mean dogs come out of your yard I'n a threatening manner then I'll shoot them while you watch!

[Mike1234]

farmerboy... My reading comprehension is fine. Poisoned bait is indiscriminate killing of any animal that eats it.

[Double Naught Spy]

Not that anyone here said it was, but the .22lr cartridge isn't a toy or a kid's gun. It is not a 1st tier self defense weapon, but it can certainly kill when needed.

The problem is that it often doesn't kill or stop when needed because during an attack, people have a lot of trouble making the perfect shots necessary to make a kill or stop.

[chewie146]

.22s are great guns, and I carry them often, but I've seen enough squirrels require a followup shot that I'd be hesitant to use them for defense, unless recoil or concealment are extreme issues. .22 magnum is better, but centerfire is best. Rimfire will never be 99% reliable in all firearms. I've never had a dud centerfire that wasn't a reload (not mine) or the fault of the firearm.

[skydiver3346]

Sure better than nothing. However, if you must carry a .22 type cartridge, I would definitely make it a .22 magnum carry pistol. Load it with Federal 50 grain hollow points and you should be able to repel most any dog, etc., and probably most humans! :)

[9mm]

I only had about 10 or so fail to fire out of 5,000 22lrs.. I never had one with a CCI, always with cheap ammo. If it's revolver, it really doesn't matter the cylinder moving/firing when you pull the trigger. It's the auto I worry about, you have to rack the slide.

[Terry A]

Back around 2002-2003, there was a wild dog roaming about in the woods on the road where I lived. A group of 5 houses were all on the same side of the street, with woods behind our homes as well as on the other side of the road. Several neighbors and my wife had been telling me that when they're outside, this dog just isn't acting right. Very hostile and aggressive. In one case, this wild dog actually mangled a neighbor's dog. Mauled the dog but good!

As fate would have it, I'm now cutting our grass when I saw the dog that they'd been telling me about. He was in the yard next to ours and he was just giving me the eyes. I went inside and, for some unknown reason that I still can't understand, of all the guns I have, from AK's, M4, assorted shotguns, many .45ACP, .40 and 9mm semis, I for some crazy reason grabbed a bolt action single shot Glenfield Model 10 that I had not shot in at least 2 years. I loaded it with a single .22 from an OLD box that I had. Instead of getting some of my fresher ammo, I just dug for the oldes box. Had one extra round in my hand. And then I went outside.

The dog was right where I last saw him. I started walking towards him in the big open yard that ajoins both properties. After I took maybe 10 steps, the dog flat out charged and I mean to tell you, he looked mad, ears pinned back, and was coming really fast. I dropped down to one knee and was waiting to see how close he could get before I would fire. At that exact moment, the thought came to me....what if the gun doesn't fire? Or what if that ancient .22 doesn't go bang? (I promise, I'm not making any of this up, especially this part.....I started giggling!) I KNEW I had one shot to get the dog or he would be feasting. He was coming full bore, straight at me and I fired at his upper chest-neck area. The gun fired and the dog fell forward and didn't roll at all, he just skidded. The second .22 finished it off.

Nothing like that has ever happened since. But if a similar need arises, like Springfield Armory says, I'll "bring enough gun!"

[BGutzman]

Such as a rattlesnake, pitbull, coyote? I don't expect it to have the firepower to stop a person, but what about these other animals that might get aggressive?

Absolutely it can stop these animals if: You are a good shot, bullets into the brain will stop most animals regardless of size. That said I wouldnt recommend using a 22 against anything much larger than a dog or rabid zombie deer.

If a pitbull or a coyote was to (for whatever reason) attack you it will be of course a moving attack and not a static target so shooting skill is key.

[skoro]

what about these other animals that might get aggressive?

Of course it will work if the shot placement is correct. The only time I've ever had to use a firearm in self defense was a 22lr against a large dog. It worked very well. The beast went down right then and there.

[m_liebst]

110 + pounds and up of projectile energy is enough to incapacitate most small to medium size animals.

I know that 40 grains sounds like beans, but not for the one standing in front of a lead one going 1100 + FPS!

I wasn't at all suprised by the video outcome of the dog being popped by the officers 9mm or 40S&W. thing wasn't even dealt a fatal shot...n it was screamin like it was being internally scorched.

Deflection would be the biggest robber of the .22lrs energy, so center of mass is the key. With a full size .22lr pistol such as a buckmark or ruger, 10shot mag filled with cci velocitors, and a nice red dot... practice the double taps:)

[deathrider]

a 22 for a charging animal? not for me, I saw a friend use one to stop a charge of a pack of dogs & dropped the front one, yes it worked, 1 shot into head 30 or so feet & it dropped dead, but my gun was inside truck & I was 20+ feet away, he had a holster, & mine had kept dropping down my leg, as I didnt have a holster, 20 years or more ago. I was carrying a 357 in those days.

as for the snake shot, I was being annoyed by a mouse, & at roughly 6 feet I put 2 into it, & it only turned, at which point I used a stinger 22 & that was the end of the mouse, the gun was a NAA 22 in LR.

I had to shoot 1 dog with a 40, & it took 6 rounds to head & was still barking, & standing, I walked to truck & came back & put 1, 44 special though its head & that was that.

another dog took 2 rounds of 44 special to the head, & upon the second was trying to bite more aggressively, & was getting meaner by the second, the third dropped it.

Randy