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OsOk-308
October 19, 2011, 08:06 AM
Why is it that I see arched main spring housings on 1911's that are government models, but on every 1911 with a skeletonized hammer and beavertail grip safety, the MSH is always a flat one? I've felt the 1911A1, and like the arched MSH, however I've never tried it on an upgraded 1911. So yeah, I guess my question is just why?

shanzlik
October 19, 2011, 08:37 AM
I'm going to guess most prefer the feel of the flat - I know I do, and the manufacturers are just responding to demand.

The arched go with the historical GI appearance.

csmsss
October 19, 2011, 08:57 AM
What shanzik said. Remember, also, that the 1911 was originally fitted with a flat MSH and the arched housing was a subsequent revision, as were the shorter trigger and frame indents. I find the flat housing indispensable.

Dwight55
October 19, 2011, 09:35 AM
It's one of those personal preference things: white walls / black walls, . . . coffee / tea, . . . snow scene / beach party, . . . etc.

It does one thing for me though that I like, . . . there is a "wrinkle" in my palm that it seems to naturally slide into. It makes getting the same "grip" easier for me when I am practicing or shooting. That of course, makes my shooting a little bit better, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

Sevens
October 19, 2011, 10:02 AM
For such a small piece, it makes a large difference, IMO.

Way back when, I couldn't stand the feel of the arched MSH. Now that my EDC happens to be a Glock, I still don't care for a hump in that area but an arched MSH on a 1911 is so much less intrusive than the horrific hump I'm dealing with on my Glock.

I like the look of an arched MSH on a 1911, but I much prefer the feel and operation of a flat one. But because of the Glock, I have to say that I *HATE* the arched MSH less than I used to! :)

If I ever get around to buying a GSG pistol, the arched MSH will be swapped out.

jmr40
October 19, 2011, 10:23 AM
Original was flat. Military testing showed the arched gave a more natural pointing pistol in combat type shooting and went with arched. The flat MSH has become more popular only in the last 10-15 years.

I think it really comes down to the type of shooting you do. For slow fired target type shooting flat is probably better. For fast instinctive combat shooting arched is probably more natural, but a shooter can probably adapt and shoot either type equally well.

RickB
October 19, 2011, 11:04 AM
It's interesting that most people seem to prefer the flat mainspring housing on a 1911, but almost no other gun on the market has a flat backstrap; why is everyone getting it wrong? If customers want it flat, why don't Glock, SIG, S&W, Springfield, Beretta, et al., give us what we really want?
I really think the flat MSH is a supply-side deal. Most people buying 1911s today have never shot one with an arched housing, so it's not a matter of preferring one to the other. I think the prevalence of flat MSHs goes back to Colt offering it on the Gold Cup, when lesser versions of their "1911" models all had arched. If I were going to have a custom gun built, I'd want that flat housing that's on Colt's most expensive, exclusive model, right?

brickeyee
October 19, 2011, 11:22 AM
Hand size and shooting style.

Pick what you feel best using.

Tom Servo
October 19, 2011, 12:15 PM
Military testing showed the arched gave a more natural pointing pistol in combat type shooting and went with arched.
Folks raised on revolvers (including yours truly) tend to find the feel of the arched mainspring housing to be more natural.

I'm not sure why the change was made back to flat housings, unless it had something to do with weight.

raimius
October 19, 2011, 01:41 PM
It's mostly a personal preference.

I've shot with both styles. After a few hundred rounds, you get used to whatever you are using. Personally, I like the arched one a tiny bit more than the flat one. My most commonly shot 1911 is currently a bobtail, which ends up feeling like a mix between the two, in my hands.

pilpens
October 19, 2011, 01:53 PM
When I first got my 1911 Kimber, I added an arched mainspring housing thinking that, with my big hands, I needed the extra arched but found that it made the pistol point high for me. Also, I find the flat more comfortable to grip; it feels like I can center the grip better in my hand.

As everyone else said, it is personal preference.

AK103K
October 19, 2011, 02:30 PM
I find the gun points better for me with the arched/short trigger set up. Ive always replaced those parts on guns that didnt have them. Steel too, I cant stand that plastic stuff. :)

I guess call me a traditionalist, and a practical person, but I also like a lanyard loop on them too, something that seems to be forgotten in these "modern" days with the fancier guns.

MidwestRookie
October 19, 2011, 03:01 PM
:rolleyes:

what's practical about a lanyard loop?

do you make a habit of tying a piece of rope to your gun so it doesn't fall or get lost?

AK103K
October 19, 2011, 03:21 PM
Actually, I do, every time I get in the canoe or kayak, and on occasion, when the country gets a little rougher than usual.

Some of us have more of an active lifestyle than others. Then again, I suppose many of those fancy 1911's dont get out much in the real world either. :)

Carry_24/7
October 19, 2011, 03:31 PM
I prefer flat, arched does not fit my hand well.

tipoc
October 19, 2011, 03:40 PM
It's interesting that most people seem to prefer the flat mainspring housing on a 1911...

I'm not sure that this is true. What is true that in the last decade more new guns have been produced and sold with flat MSHs than at any time before. This was not so much "meeting" consumer demand as creating it by convincing a good many new shooters to the 1911 that they needed this feature. Many were not aware that there was an option nor that there was any noticeable difference.

As mentioned originally the gun had a flat MSH. The Army noted that a good many soldiers had trouble pointing the gun properly and had trouble engaging the grip safety reliably. The arched MSH was introduced in 1926 to help adjust for these problems. The arched MSH helped to force the hand upward where it more reliably engaged the safety. The military retained the arched housing for the remainder of the 1911s service life.

In the late 1990s or so the flat MSH had a resurgence of popularity among some IDPA and IPSC competitive shooters. This lead others to try it and like the option and Kimber, Springfield, etc. offered it as standard. It was marketed as a needed mod along with extended beavertails and extended thumb safeties, etc. Within a few years of this introduction many folks were finding that they had trouble reliably engaging the grip safety (predictable) and a "memory" bump was added to the grip safety. You can see these "bumps" on many grip safeties now days.

Which one you choose is a matter of preference. The 1911 is the most adaptable handgun made.

tipoc

Tom Servo
October 19, 2011, 08:03 PM
do you make a habit of tying a piece of rope to your gun so it doesn't fall or get lost?
Keep in mind that this gun was designed to be fired from horseback. The lanyard loop is part of its heritage.

I've seen the statement that "most folks" prefer the flat mainspring housing, but could it be that's because it's the only way the current generation has known the gun?

KyJim
October 19, 2011, 09:02 PM
I can't say this for a fact but it seems to me the flat MSH became popular about the same time as the beavertail grip safety. The beavertail puts the hand up higher and completely changes the feel of the gun. The arch no longer acts as a palm swell but, instead, hits more toward the bottom of the palm.

Dave T
October 19, 2011, 10:13 PM
I prefer the flat housing because with an arched housing I miss fully depressing the grip safety about half the time.

A good friend of mine prefers the arched housing because with a flat housing he misses depressing the grip safety about half the time.

Neither one of us is right or wrong. It is just personal preference...and in many cases hand size and shape that dictates that preference.

Dave

Andy Taylor
October 19, 2011, 10:14 PM
Interesting, as I am in the process of ordering an arched MSH for the new Springfield I just bought. I too, have wondered why all the guns seem to come with flat these days. I have always prefered the arched. Admitably, the replacement MSH is to get rid of the stupid ILS as much to swap for an arched.
I have held the bobtail guns, but haven't shot one. They did feel nice in my hand though.

Sgt Pepper
October 19, 2011, 10:37 PM
I've never noticed much difference between the two, although for me, my government with the arched housing feels more ergonomic (to use a modern word) in the hand. Never had a problem disengaging the grip safety on either style. Seem to shoot just as accurately and fast with one as the other. If I had to make a choice, I would go arched. In fact, I would not mind experimenting with an arched housing in my Officer's ACP or New Agent if there is such a thing.

Stringfellow
October 20, 2011, 01:31 AM
I was pretty set in my preference for the arched mainspring housing vs. the flat. I bought an arched ms to replace the flat ms that came with my 1911, and you know what--I realized what the fuss was about; I liked the feel of flat better.

I switched back and forth a few times to make sure, but ended up returning the arched ms.

45Gunner
October 20, 2011, 06:44 AM
I think the flat/arched MSH is a matter of personal preference. Most of my 1911's came with a flat MSH which I prefer. One of my Springers came with an arched MSH and I just could never get used to the feel....as a matter of fact it became uncomfortable to shoot. I soon changed it and now all my 1911's have flat MSH.

9x19
October 20, 2011, 08:03 AM
In 1914, the 1911 "Government Model" came with a flat MSH and long trigger, still a great combo, for me.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/1911s/CUSGI1911.jpg

Carry_24/7
October 20, 2011, 12:17 PM
Yep, different people have different hand sizes and grips. Hence, the availability of choice concerning flat vs. arched MSH.

I've used 1911s of both types, I shoot better with flat.

Poodleshooter
October 20, 2011, 12:27 PM
I have smaller hands and crooked fingers. The first thing I did to my Colt was replace its plastic arched MSH with a flat steel MSH.
A flat MSH and a short trigger are the best combo for me.

Casimer
October 20, 2011, 01:40 PM
I'd be interested to know whether arched housings are more popular among people who like to shoot one handed. Because that's how I often see them applied - at BE matches for example. Otherwise they're not very common any longer. But it seems like any time I see someone shooting a 1911 one handed, there's a decent chance that they're using an arched MSH.

Clifford L. Hughes
October 20, 2011, 01:52 PM
OsOk-308:

When I was shooting on a Marine Corps pistol team I had the team armor file down an arched MSH to 1/2 its thickness. It was then stippled for a firm grip. The modified MSH wedged nicely behind my thumb in the palm of my hand. However, most of my team mates shot flat MSH in lieu of the issued, arched housing.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

tipoc
October 20, 2011, 03:37 PM
I'd be interested to know whether arched housings are more popular among people who like to shoot one handed. Because that's how I often see them applied - at BE matches for example. Otherwise they're not very common any longer. But it seems like any time I see someone shooting a 1911 one handed, there's a decent chance that they're using an arched MSH.

There is no direct connection between shooting one handed and the arched MSH in my experience. There may be a connection between old school shooters and the arched housing though. Bulls eye shooters may more tend to be traditionalists.

This is one of those trends that come and go like the long trigger or short. You see the long trigger much more these days. It began reappearing about the time the flat MSH became popular again and for similar reasons. Some IDPA and IPSC shooters came to like the long trigger better and it became a "needed" option. Marketing knows that "if you have the gear of the big boys you can shoot like the big boys" and so push such innovations. But many shooters also come to see the value of the difference in where the finger rests on the trigger. The short trigger comes in heck a handy if you have to wear gloves.

The ability to shape the 1911 to the shooters needs and desires and hands is one of the guns strengths.

tipoc

Chris_B
October 20, 2011, 07:23 PM
I own a Model of 1911 made in 1918, and a Series 70 made in 1978

One has a flat MSH, the other arched

I don't notice a difference either way and I shoot booth pistols equally well

For looks, I prefer the flat

Chris_B
October 20, 2011, 07:28 PM
In 1914, the 1911 "Government Model" came with a flat MSH and long trigger, still a great combo, for me.

9X19, you have a wonderful Model of 1911

But it is not a Government Model :)

Government Models, perversely, were not the ones issued to the US Military. Yours was- I can read the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" stamp on the frame. I've often wondered how much confusion the name 'Government Model" has created

Government Models were civilian models. During the second world war, some Gov. models were 'militarized' but that's another topic

Although my own is four years younger than yours, I agree, that long, smooth trigger is really something else

OsOk-308
October 20, 2011, 07:47 PM
Thank you guys for all of your input so far. I have felt government models with both the flat and the arched MSH, I personally like the arched ones more. However I just added a skeletonized hammer and beavertail grip safety to my 1911 R1 and am curious about whether or not it will still feel the same as it did grabbing a 1911A1. Seeing as this is going to mostly be a SD gun, I'm curious if the arched MSH helps a bit more in those quick draw and fire situation.

Auto426
October 20, 2011, 08:19 PM
The only thing an arched mainspring housing does is the make the gun point a little higher. The extra bump on the bottom of the grip tilts the gun in your hand a little, raising the front sight.

If you want to know whats best for you, close your eyes, draw your 1911 (unloaded of course), and aim it in a safe direction. Open your eyes and look at the sight picture that your body naturally generated. If you find the gun aiming low, then you might want to add the arched mainspring housing to raise the point of aim. If the gun is pointing naturally, with the sights lined up, then you don't need an arched housing.

9x19
October 21, 2011, 08:28 AM
Chris B,

Thanks. The "Government Model" in my post was intended to be illusory rather than definitive, but I'm not a great communicator.