a question regarding accuracy

[shrewd]

today I had the mosin, m-1, and a stag model 2 out at the range and was a little frustrated with how I did. this is just bench shooting, no bags or anything. At 100 yards I was keeping roughly 6 inch average groups with the irons. A few bulls, a few wince inducing flyers, but generally that sorta grouping. I know I could do better with a scope as those irons and the tiny targets at 100 make it difficult for me, but ive always preferred a good set of irons.

anywho, how bad is this, exactly? I'm trying to learn but I guess I have high standards and want to see more progress.

(I won't get into the stag, embarrassing groups at 50 yards. I'm blaming the trigger for now.... :(

[Mike38]

An "Expert Rifleman" is capable of shooting 4 MOA groups or better with iron sights. You're getting there!

[shrewd]

oh. sweet!

[briandg]

Off a bench. Iron sights. Definitely non-competion grade rifles, definitely not competition grade ammunition. Probably overall a very lame setup, right?

An average to good shooter, not a match winning competitor, will do a 2" group with a good rifle and ammunition, with a scope. Use a less accurate rifle or ammunition, and it will balloon to 3 or more".

For you to take off the shelf miltary surpluse, iron sights, casuall off the bench shooting into 6" groups is not something to worry about.

I'm concerned about your fliers, though, and why they happened. did they happen because of something you did, or is it just inherently a rife/ammo matchup that sometimes tosses one off to an incorrect area?

Maybe you need to have the bore measured and make sure that your bullets are correct diameter.

[shrewd]

i believe it was something i did

particularly with the m1, which ive shot very favorable before. for some reason today i was flinching a bit at the beginning. by my third clip i was back in my comfort zone, and got my best groups. its been a while since i'd shot a real rifle, been stuck with pistols and the ar and 10/22 indoors the last few weekends.


a side note, my mosin definately shoots 6 inches or so to the right consistantly.

[oldpapps]

They are battle rifles!
They were designed to be used in battle. A hit any place between the chin and the crotch at 100 yards was to be considered a good hit.
We now want and expect and often get much more than these great weapons were designed to do.
With that said, work on trigger control, breath control and sight picture, then with a lot of practice things will get better. And you will get the enjoyment of getting there.

OSOK

[madcratebuilder]

i believe it was something i did

particularly with the m1, which ive shot very favorable before. for some reason today i was flinching a bit at the beginning. by my third clip i was back in my comfort zone, and got my best groups. its been a while since i'd shot a real rifle, been stuck with pistols and the ar and 10/22 indoors the last few weekends.


a side note, my mosin definately shoots 6 inches or so to the right consistantly.

You did good with those minute of man rifles. You were aware of your flinching and worked on it. It takes trigger time to become comfortable with the rifle. After a winter of shooting rimfires indoors it takes me a trip or two to the range to get the kinks out.

Don't be concerned about all the .5 moa shooting you read about on the net, it's greatly exaggerated.:rolleyes:

[Clifford L. Hughes]

Shwerd:

To improve your groups with iron sights try, if you are not already doing so, aligning your sights at six o'clock and releasing your trigger without the sights moving. When I was shooting competition for the Marine Corps I snapped in against a blank, white wall. I worked on placing the rifle uniformly against my shoulder and aquiring a uniform grip. Then I would practice placing my finger on the trigger so that I could release the trigger without the sights moving. Any misalignment or trigger jerk will be appearent. No one can hold a rifle absolutely still. That is why it is mandatory to align the sights and practice good trigger control. When the sights are aligned they can wonder in a circle the size off the bull and you will still get a good hit.


Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC retired

[shrewd]

great info guys, thanks

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

On the Mosin-Nagant, you might "Finn" the sear.

I thinned and Finned mine, and have a nice pull of 3.5#. I was going for 5# but overshot just a little.

Regardless, it's safe as it won't trip when I pound the buttstock against the ground.

I've found that leaving a little pre-travel is best, just a little, but enough to keep pressure from the trigger off the sear when cocked until you apply it yourself.

The Russians did a trigger job similar to the Finns on their snipers' rifles. If I remember correctly, the trigger was tuned to 5# to 8#, with anything under 5# being acceptable if okayed by an armorer on a regular basis.

The Mosin-Nagant is a much more precise design than its implementation would suggest. It's no trick to smooth things out and get one to 2.5 MOA when shooting at 100 yards using good ammo (surplus Czech or handloads) prone or from a bench.

I'm still after an M1 Garand I want -- I don't care what it looks like as long as the bore, chamber and headspace are in excellent condition.

My personal requirements from any rifle I own are good fit to me or can be made that way, and is mechanically more precise than I can shoot it, or can be made to be that way.

Almost all 20th Century battle rifles fill that bill.

Regards,

Josh

[kraigwy]

The best 1000 yard match I've fired was at 29 Palms.

I shot the first match with an any rifle any sight, Model 70 Win. using a Weaver t-10.

Did pretty good but beat that score with the any rifle iron sight match, using the same rifle with irons.

Then comes service rifle match, I beat both scores using my M1A with irons.

The difference between good scores and bad scores with iron sights is directly related to how much dry firing you do with the rifle w/irons.

[Eghad]

Lots of good practice.