TheKlawMan

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

So I finally bumped into Mr. TheKlawMan at the range today... It was a pleasure to finally get to meet you... TheKlawMan was a pleasure, although I cannot say the same about his gun as it openly mocked me and was downright cruel :eek:... His 870, must really hate me as I've never missed seven straight with a 12 gauge on the trap range :D.. Good to meet you sir, but I would like to apologize to your gun as apparently I have deeply offended it in some manner...;)

[zippy13]

I met TheKlawMan last spring when he was trying to figure out where his new R-870 was hitting. We were using the club's old hand-cocked trap and it was misbehaving, so not much was learned. He's still working on getting it to shoot where he's looking.

[TheKlawMan]

Hi, guys. It was really great seeing you at the range, Weatherby. Actually we met once before there and were talking with one another about a problem with one of your Wingmasters, without realizing who the other was.

Zippy was indeed gracious enough to take pity on me and attempted to get me to where I at least could dust a rare bird, but that patterning board indicated that the 870 shoots straight and flat. I just can't get it to shoot where I would like. As for that thrower, I counted it a victgory that neither of us lost any fingers to it.

Don't feel bad about how cruel that gun can be Weatherby. I shot my 870 today about as good as I can (I won't embarass myself by citing my scores), but I could swear that I was looking in the wrong place when I made kills and when I looked at the bird it was lost. I think it just plays with anyone so foolish as to presume that they are shooting it and it shoots where it wishes.

You were probably thrown off by my re-loads. Those reloads I fed you only had 7/8 ounces of shot as compared to the gun clubs you had with 1 1/8. Had I let you use your own ammo, I am sure you would have done much better. My Bad.

Some know all too well that I am trying to make a decision on a second gun, but they probably aren't too surprised at what a big deal I am making of it, if they recall all the questions I asked before plunking down a whopping $300 for a Reminton Express. Anyway, I was stoked to see Weatherby and have the opportunity to shoot his Beretta. I think Weatherby was experiencing almost as much delight watching me shoot it. As I told him, I have heard of people picking up a gun and it just fit, but I thought it an urban legend. I even managed to kill some targets with his skeet choke on the 16 yard trap line.

Its late, actually tomorrow, and time to get some shut eye, but I believe my 870 is due a lesson for its rudeness to Weatherby. Instead of resting in the bedroom closed, I think I will let it share the service porch with the cat's litter box for the rest of the night.

Weatherby. Thanks again for letting me shoot your Beretta.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

Anyway, I was stoked to see Weatherby and have the opportunity to shoot his Beretta. I think Weatherby was experiencing almost as much delight watching me shoot it. As I told him, I have heard of people picking up a gun and it just fit, but I thought it an urban legend. I even managed to kill some targets with his skeet choke on the 16 yard trap line.

I always like it when people have fun... Just think what it would do with the proper chokes installed, shooting trap loads, not my #9 1 1/8 skeet loads... You shot my gun extremely well...

[Dave McC]

I love threads like this, like we're sitting in the clubhouse after shooting and talking it over.

A couple things....

"....Straight and flat....." is where plenty of shotgunners would like to be. One can raise POI by adding cardboard to the top of the comb only.Once the best height is ascertained, you can duplicate it in Neoprene or wood.

Or, loosen up the stock bolt until you can pull it back a little, then insert a shim at the bottom nigh the trigger guard. Something like a business card folded once for starters, pattern and adjust as needed.

HTH...

[TheKlawMan]

I think our experience may illustrate how much the gun can make a difference. {I really didn't do that well with your 682. The target shooters on this board would open a vein if they shot like I did. I think I killed 6 of 8, but am not sure as I was so excited. I could easily have missed the next 6 of 8 if that was a full round.}

Anyhow, I believe it takes a lot of local knowledge to shoot my particular 870, which I suspect has a lot of idiosyncrasies. For instance it is difficult for me not to cant it so it points a little left. With your 682 I could easily mount it with the beads in line and if Iwanted to I could give it right cant, which is nearly impossible for me to do with my 870.

Zippy mentioned that he introduced me to the virtues of the patterning board. I am still learning how to use it properly, but this past month I think I was using it correctly and it seems that, as indicated by some patterning I did about a month before, that the devil wants to shoot 6" to the left and that is at a mere 20 yards. If mounted very carefully, it will shoot straight ahead, but it wants to mount pointed to the left. At least the way I have been until now and may finally be correcting. The 682 just goes up into the pocket and kills the bird.

I hear my 870 whining that I am being unfair to it. Yes, it is certainly not the guns fault that I may be hard to fit.

[oneounceload]

that the devil wants to shoot 6" to the left

Sounds like you need a cast adjustment TKM - hard to bend a plastic stock, but wood ones can be bent at the wrist, or an adjustable butt plate can be installed that will allow for alterations

[TheKlawMan]

I love threads like this, like we're sitting in the clubhouse after shooting and talking it over.

A couple things....

"....Straight and flat....." is where plenty of shotgunners would like to be. One can raise POI by adding cardboard to the top of the comb only.Once the best height is ascertained, you can duplicate it in Neoprene or wood.

Or, loosen up the stock bolt until you can pull it back a little, then insert a shim at the bottom nigh the trigger guard. Something like a business card folded once for starters, pattern and adjust as needed.

HTH...


Hi Dave. Here I was thinking that Weatherby and I were spending too much of the board's resources on discussing out thing. You mentioned shimming my 870 up with a matchbook or something, as well as raising the poi with cardboard or, if we want to get fancy, moleskin from WalMart. I have just never gotten around to trying it. I think I will be bold and experiment with the old girl. She may not be as purty as Frankenstein, but I think she is showing "character".

Talking about character, after Weatherby left I wandered way down to the far end of the skeet line and got to meet a couple of characters. One had a 1100 and the other a Winchester 1200. I think that is what he said. The bluing was nearly worn completely off of their receivers. I donn't now aby the Winchester, but the 1100 was a fixed choke.

The guy with the Winchester was having a bad day, but the old guy with the 1100, who tachnically was doing everything wrong, was smoking them. Even the two he shot with a couple of my reloads. The reloads of his own that he was shooting was a nightmare. I think that they were from his first attempts with reloading, as he gave me a couple good looking recent reloads to try.

One was leaking shot thorugh the crimp hole, so he had plastered it with mud. Another he closed up with a cigarette filter that he picked off the ground. (That was a miss. I wonder if the filter blew a hole in the middle of his pattern.) I told him that he would get a better seal if he mixed the muc with some road apple.

Regardless of what I might end up with for an O/U, it makes me think that a shooter is incomplete if they don't have even a very well worn 1100. The only gripe this guy had about his was it is getting difficult to get parts for it. I noticed it failed to cycle a lot, but I think that may have been due to the reloads he was clearing out.

[BigJimP]

No, you've got it all wrong....

Its clearly the guns fault ..../ buying a new Browning O/U is the only solution ....:D ....or two or there ...for that matter !
---------------
But seriously, ...Yes, 6 of 8 is only 75% ....but don't worry so much about score when you're trying new guns .../ get a feel for the balance, is it too long, too short --- mount it with your eyes closed - then open them to see if it comes up naturally or not ---how does the trigger feel ---how does the grip area feel -- how is the gross weight --- do you like the ergonomics of the gun ( how it looks - the wood, engraving, etc ...its a Beretta - so it can't be very attractive..) ....( just kidding )...

But my point is - don't get too hung up on your scores when you're trying guns. It speaks well of the community of shotgunners ...that he let you put some shells thru his gun / and helped you out with the process of deciding on a new gun. While I'm sure he feels like his gun would be a good choice for you ...it isn't about what fits him the best(or me) - its about what fits you the best.

[TheKlawMan]

You are dead on about the cast, oneounce. I think I have corrected my mount pretty well with the assistance of that "Stock Fitter's Bible". It goes into mounting to an extent and how a problem with cant can be corrected to a modest degree by a slight change in mount. It can help to stand a bit more obliquely to the target for some, but that can introduce a problem with cheek slap as a more sensitive area of the cheek bone is exposed.

[TheKlawMan]

Hi Jim. I hear you. The ideal solution is to get a Browning XT Trap for the trap field and a Beretta and I am still not convinced that I can't shoot a Browning XS Skeet as good or better than a Beretta 682.

Alas, the God of Finances will dictate one or another. One concern I have as to the Beretta is it felt to me like it was lighter and when I looked it up on paper it inceed is nearly a half pound lighter than the XS Skeet. (comparing models without adjustable combs, which I do want) Another big difference is the parallel stock on the XS Skeet vs. the angled stock of the 682 (other than the trap model).

[BigJimP]

and the 682's I think ( I'm not a Beretta expert ) list between $4,000 and $ 4,500 -- so they're more expensive / or at least in that model line - but they're a solid gun.

If you go with the 682 Beretta line ...I think they have a Trap version / or maybe a combo gun ...but Browning has those versions as well...

its hard to make up your mind on a new gun ...and its not an insignificant investment ( if you get it wrong ) - and that's why I'm pushing you toward a parallel comb gun ...and its adjustability as a better option for you at this point / and I like that "blocky and chunky style" of the Browning Citori XS Skeet or XT Trap with the adj combs ....

[TheKlawMan]

Jim, the price tag of a 682 is definitely a deterrent, but one I didn't mention since I was focusing on the dynamic features of the gun. (I used a big word, "dynamic"", even if I may have not used it quite right.) Hopefully, I am starting to pull a myriad of thinkgs together. That is good and then it can be bad. I think I have greatly improved my mount, with a minute change here and there, and it may be that the Browning fits and points even better now that these tiny modification is my mount seem to be taking effect.

[BigJimP]

No, I think your evaluations are going well .../ it was good of him to help you out !

[TheKlawMan]

Yeah. Weatherby is a very nice guy. I owe him a hamburger and maybe a beer, at least. (I don't know if he drinks). What was all so weird was there were these two guys on the field next to me and they made me think of Weatherby. A half hour later this guy walks down from the skeet fields asking if I post on TFL and its him. I would add that I don't even think I had to ask Weatherby if I could shoot it. He offered.

[Dave McC]

Take some food with that 870, specially in the company of those you love, bust a few thousand clays, and character will be there.

Frankenstein takes love to make it pretty, but it knows how to make me look like I know what to do.

BTW, that shim trick may fix that 6" left thing but I suspect it's more a form thing. Do not cant the gun or your head.

FTI, the 686 White Onyx Sporter here cost less than $2K, and with 32" barrels weighs 8 lbs. A little weight has been added to bring it up a bit without changing the balance.

Do hang on to your 870, regardless of whatever other shotguns you get. Everyone needs a good pumpgun.

[.300 Weatherby Mag]

While I'm sure he feels like his gun would be a good choice for you ...it isn't about what fits him the best(or me) - its about what fits you the best.

It is very true that fit is key.. I don't believe that I tried to imply that a 682 is the "best" option... I just answered questions about it and gave my opinion on how it works for me...