Would You Like to See These Stocks on The Market?

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Hi, it's been a while since I've logged on here, I've been over on THR for a while and forgot my password here, but in a miracle it came to me just as I was opening my browser. :D

I have been designing some custom stocks for some military surplus rifles, such as the Mauser, K31, and Mosin Nagant. Today, I'll be showcasing my designs for the Mosin Nagant family tree of rifles.

Now, there is nothing wrong with the Mosin Nagant. It is my favorite rifle. I love the fit and finish of the original, so much so that I wouldn't ever change my first one (M44 y.1944). But some people, including me, feel that there may be something to be desired.

The Mosin Nagant has the potential to be a highly accurate rifle. But in stock configuration, there isn't too much you can do to fix that. Sure, you can cork the barrel at the muzzle end of the stock, even out torque on the action screws, roll your own ammo, but in military configuration, you're practically robbing yourself of accuracy. But, I will put my foot in my mouth, there are some Mosin Nagant rifles that are super accurate in stock configuration, even Russian ones, but not all are like that. I've been designing these stocks to maximize the accuracy potential.

What I'm planning on doing someday (hopefully soon) is to open up a custom stock making business. This idea came to me when designing these stocks, and the amount of interest on THR. I plan on making these stocks semi-to complete-custom. Whether you just want to bed your military surplus action in original barreled action, or you have a custom job that you're looking for a stock for, as I have plans to do a custom rifle with a reciever and UK-59 barrel from classicarms (http://www.classicarms.us).

Well, enough explanation, I can give more details through answering questions. On with the pictures. (Forgive the cartoon-y appearance. The only drawing software on my computer is Microsoft Paint, can't afford anything else.)

You can keep up with these and other designs here:

Custom Designs (http://http://s1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/)

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/mosinstockidea6SV98v2.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/mosinstockidea4v2.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/mosinstockidea3.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/mosinstockidea.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/mosinstockidea2.jpg

[hornetguy]

Woo-HOOO! My vote is in the LEAD!!

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

LOL @ Hornetguy

What can I convince you on, good sir? :)

[FrosSsT]

Its a neat concept, I just cant justify spending more on a stock than I did on the rifle. Its a cheap rifle, and I think the reason that 99% of the people who buy them is because they're 100 dollars a pop at most places and it fires a heavy hitting round. Spending the money to make it something its not just isn't my thing, by the time I spent money on the stock and a decent scope to do it some justice, I could have purchased a remington 700 in a caliber made for accurate, long range shooting.

[DiCarnage]

I'm EXTREMELY interested. Heck, if my business was up and running I'd be talking to you about a licensing deal right now. (In the near future I'll be doing the same thing with Mosins and Mausers, so I just might need to keep you on tap.)
Setups number 1 and number three look the best to me, with number 5 getting an honourable mention.
Any idea what we might be looking at in terms of cost for these in a production model?

[Bigjim3]

Great looking stuff!!!!!

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Well, I haven't started on even one yet, though I'm hoping that changes soon. I'm debating on whether or not I should use solid or laminate wood, I don't have access to molds plastic or fiber-glass, or carbon-fiber.

I've got a request for pallets in good condition on Facebook to try one in laminated wood, though I'm not sure how that would turn out.

I'm not going to make this an expensive modification. There are too many parts out there that we know and love that are over-priced, and I don't believe of rolling people over to turn a profit. My designs are intended to be useful and accurizing without the cost of other things. The ATI stock in CTD's catalogue is about $60 bucks. I want to aim for that area, but it'll probably be a little more than that for obvious reasons.

I'm happy with the amount of interest here as well so far. It's given me the confidence to give it my best and attempt to take this to the next level.

The situation now is grim. I'm unemployed, looking for work but finding none.
As far as getting a start now, I'm not sure. Once I get the pallets (if any) I'm going to separate them, glue them, and clamp them. I'll probably leave them like that for a while, but I'm not sure yet. If I had access to better materials, I wouldn't be thinking about using pallets. Just working with what I can. I have some tools, but not a lot, so it'd definately take me a while (mostly hand tools).

[savage1r]

#2 looks pretty badass, just think thin and light. Would look even better once Datamancer finishes his 10rnd mosin mag.

[the rifleer]

AS long as you charge the right price, i think it would be a huge hit.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I've got some ideas what I'm going to do with the magazine. I'm trying to figure out a way to do a detachable magazine. It's probably going to just go with my stocks, unless someone wants to heavily modify their rifle, I'm doing some custom bottom metal for this. I'll post a pic after bit, gotta go mow.

[hornetguy]

What can I convince you on, good sir?

just mainly more info.. but I'm getting some of that as others ask questions. Laminated wood would be interesting... possibly heavy? Not that that would be a bad thing..
For me, simpler is better.. I like the idea of the free floated one, but I also like the "simple" tactical with the thumbhole (3rd one).
You might give a thought to selling "roughed" out internals, so a guy could do his own bedding. Might save you some bucks, be able to market them slightly lower on the price scale.
just some random thoughts.

[michael m]

I would be interested, again if the price is right. I hate to put 100.00 into an 100.00 rifle. that is not even semi-auto.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

That's the thing... I like sem-automatic rifles, don't get me wrong, but I love me my bolts. Simpler to run. Easier to maintain, and even though obsolete on the battlefield, they serve a limited role that for the most part hasn't been replaced.

To me, a rifle doesn't need to be semi-auto to look good. What I want to do with these stocks is give someone the opportunity to be creative with their rifles while at the same time, giving better accuracy and what not.

Hornetguy has a good idea there, selling a semi-finished stock, mainly with pattern cut and outside finished, leaving the internals (inletting, barrel channel, et cetera) rough cut so the end user can finish how he/she likes.

If I were to make this a business, it would be about the customer. Not the monetary return. Too many people let the money get to their heads. Not me. Money is just an object, that is no object to me. The satisfaction I get is with the satisfaction of the customer, but for obvious reasons, I can't just hand these out, it'd bleed me dry and get me nowhere. I wouldn't be able to keep going like that. I'd have to be able to keep operating.

If anyone has a different stock design they like (from another rifle), feel free to PM me, and I'll see what I can draw up.

But now on to my detachable magazine/custom bottom metal. The picture I'm about to post is only for visual representation only. I have not refined, nor have I put more work into this. I'm still drawing up some other thoughts on how to get this to work. I'd love to be able to do a double stack if anyone knows how to get one to work (going from double-stack to single stack at the top).

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/Detachablemagbottommetal.jpg

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

DiCarnage: I am starting to work up some designs for the Mauser platform as well. Feel free to look at the album, it's in there second to the left on the top. I only have one up so far, my time has been pre-occupied with the Mosin designs lately. I should start working some up for the Mauser though...

Custom Designs (http://s1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/)

[chris in va]

The Mosin isn't accurate enough to justify stocks like that.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

The Mosin is plenty accurate if given the chance. Some bores may be shot out, but some are sweet shooters. The way the come factory doesn't do them justice.

So please, don't go and generalize a rifle platform because ofa bad experience, either yours or someone elses.

I'm planning on making these stocks so people can do a direct swap, or can make a custom rifle off of one...

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

On a related note, does anyone have links to accurizing a Mosin Nagant? I want some reading material to study for things to incorporate into these stocks aside from proper bedding and proper torque (anyone know the proper torque here as well?).

[bailey bud]

Cool designs. .

I build furniture out of pallet wood -

skip the brittle stuff. (It would not handle the stress of a gun shot)

What you're looking for is the pallets made of something hard - like oak.

Unfortunately, most of the pallet wood is warped or filled with nails.

You might have a really hard time creating a good stock from the stuff I've worked with.

[Jim243]

I like number 2, just not sure you could drill and tap a MN for that scope mount, You may want to incorporate a scope mount into the stock.


Just a thought.
Jim

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Actually Jim243:

I do have an idea for mounting to the stock instead of the reciever. My idea was consolidating the scope mount into a bedding block for the action itself. My idea was to fully bed this block to the stock, and then torque the action down on this (to proper spec, of course, if I can find this information.

If you go to my link to the album containing these designs, there is a K31 stock design that has this bedding block incorporated with scope mount, in a sorts.

The mount, which will need to be custom made, will incorporate scope rings and will bolt to this bedding block.

Thoughts? Comment? Concerns?

[kealil]

Me likey the top two:D

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Thanks, Kealil.

Maybe not go with pallets, then? I don't have any access to other woods, really, not much at all.

Any ideas?

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I have the picture of the bedding block now.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/mosinstockandbeddingblock.jpg

[Scorch]

As others have said, if the stock costs more than the rifle, it may not be likely to succeed.

If I were to make this a business, it would be about the customer. Not the monetary return.
Mmmmm-hmmmmmmm. A businessman, I see.:rolleyes:

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I stand to my beliefs, attacked, misbelieved, what-have-you.

I have seen too many useful items for firearms out there that are over-priced, when something cheaper works just as well. It's messed up how companies get away with charging so much for things that shouldn't cost that much... i.e. AK's, AR's... FN sells each rifle to the US Government for $470 IIRC, and yet, a $470 AR in America (non-existant in my suspicions) wouldn't be worth it's weight in dog-turds.

These people's mark-up is rediculous. And the sad thing is, people allow them to charge so much because they buy the product... I digress. It's your money, spend it how you see fit. If you don't like the product, I'm not holding the proverbial gun to your head.

Like I said earlier. It's for people who want some improvement in one of their favorite rifles, or to build a project out of a Mosin, (which is what I'm planning to do down the road).

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I just had a thought.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as the rifle is attached to the stock, without movement, accuracy and function remains the same, doesn't it?

What if, instead of making a bedding block that's bedded to the rifle stock, what if I had the bedding block seperate, with no movement tolerance in the stock, say it fits like a glove in a single cut out space, sandwhiched between the barreled action and the bottom metal.

Is this something worth pursuing or is it a no-go.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/Bedblock.jpg

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Guess I'm just hearing crickets, lol.

[loose_holster_dan]

those look just like stocks i've already seen before.

*edit*
sorry, should have read before i looked at the pictures. didn't realize you were specifically talking about those models. i like the idea of putting modern looking stocks on older rifles.

*edit*
you really need a good 3-d modeling software to excite people with this. give solidworks a try.

[DiCarnage]

Don't listen to the nay-sayers, man. You have a good idea, and you should go for it if that's what you wanna do. I ran into a guy at the local gun show selling K98's with custom wood furniture for $1,000 and he was actually making sales. What you have here is an entry into a niche market, and as the poll shows there's roughly 50% interest in your proposed product, which is great. As with any aftermarket product, you're only gonna be looking at a tiny percentage of the buying market, but there will be those customers that make your day worth it.
I know guys that have put $1000+ into aftermarket parts for their 870's, so your customers are out there.

BTW: CTD has your Mosin scope mount solution for 42 bucks

[Scorch]

what if I had the bedding block seperate, with no movement tolerance in the stock, say it fits like a glove in a single cut out space, sandwhiched between the barreled action and the bottom metal.
Is this something worth pursuing or is it a no-go.
Take a look at www.stockysstocks.com , they have a stock exactly like what you are talking about (AccuBlock stock), removable bedding area so the same stock can be sold for different rifles, just insert the proper bedding insert. It's a good idea, but you have to figure out how to make money on it or you will go broke trying to make people happy. And last time I checked, going broke was not a good business practice.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I never heard of a commercial interchangeable bedding block, guess my idea would work, if it works on other rifles. I'm not sure I like the idea of having the same block for multiple stocks though, mainly because all recievers are different, and I plan on doing these for more than just a R700 or what have you.

My ideas are for the Mosin, the Mauser (which, if not mistaken, should cover the Springfield, to? Answer there?), and the K31. Though, there's a potential of more. Guess I could venture into the Savage and the Remington's, seeing as they're both entry-level F-class rifles (on level of accurization).

DiCarnage, I gotta thank you for the continued support! Means a lot!

My scope mount is something that I would like to do. That way, there is no serious modification to the rifle (drill and tap, yet another one of my ideas for a drop in rifle, which can be scoped WITHOUT modification) and I believe, if done right, has the chance to be fairly accurate. It is bolted to the bedding block, torqued down, though lbs./in. unknown at the moment (does it need to be specific?)

Loose Holster Dan: I do need some better designing software. But I'm working with what I have right now. :)

Scorch: Your point is seen, and I'll raise you that with good customer service, comes good business. :p

[savage1r]

You can relax with the extended magazine because one has already been patented and is in the process of being produced by this guy:
http://www.datamancer.net/blog/
He's a good guy and a member of gunandgame.com as well as calguns.net. You could probably work a deal with him and then package out your stocks with his mags to make a sweet deal for mosin-modders.

[booker_t]

Unrelated, if you're not able to spring for some CAD software, I suggest you try Google Sketchup. Might give you a better result than MS Paint, and real CAD files that can be exported to g-code, converted to DXF, and used for CAM.

http://sketchup.google.com/

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I am not going to relax, because in my opinion, I've got the better design, and I just need to get one fabbed up. Mine is detachable, like an AR-15 magazine.

I like datamancers work, don't get me wrong, I'd love a 10 round Mosin, but his isn't detachable. I want to do a detachable variation. If I'm limited to doing it to the rifles I build for my sole possession, sure, fine, no big deal. But AFAIK, he doesn't have the patent for a detachable box magazine.

However... The package deal would be a pretty nice idea... I'll have to look him up. Link to his site?

[savage1r]

Far be it from me to tell someone NOT to do something they're interested in, I just assumed that it would mean you wouldn't have to spend that extra time working on the mechanics of the mag when you could utilize that time more for the stock production. You can reach his main site from the link I provided or just www.datamancer.net I believe.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Thanks for the link and consideration, Savage.

I tried that Google Sketchup, not really a fan. Too hard for me to get used to. Plus, I can't even get one of the designs to shape how I wanted.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

For the sake of this to work in my favor, I will continue to try my hand at this, but I'm not sure how anything will work out.

[TXGunNut]

Build one. A picture may be worth a thousand words but it makes a poor rifle stock.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Well I got some good news. I've got a nice oak log coming my way from a buddy who's in the tree service. I'll cut it down to a reasonable block before I let it dry and season. Anyone have any recommendations for how long I should let it season?

[shooter_john]

You come up with those stocks for less than $100, and I'd likely buy a Mosin and one of your stocks, just to try it out. I've had a couple in the past, but always ran into folks that wanted them more than I did.

[kraigwy]

So you take a $100 rifle, put on a 200 or so stock, an additional couple hundred in gunsmith services and you get a $50 rifle.

No Sir, not for me. I like the way my Mosin shoots now, Plus its CMP GSM Legal.

I though I would be in the minioity bu it looks like just south of 50% voted NO THANKS

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Thank you, shooter_john.

I plan on building two prototypes. One for a drop in rifle, to test accuracy gains from stock, and a second to see the accuracy potential of a target class mosin.

If anyone lives in the Council Bluffs, Iowa or Omaha, Nebraska region, and have another Mosin they want to donate for trials, pm me. You'll get your rifle back. Or heck, you could test the rifle yourself. All I have is an M44 for a Mosin, so I wouldn't be able to test the 91/30.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Kraigwy:
So you take a $100 rifle, put on a 200 or so stock, an additional couple hundred in gunsmith services and you get a $50 rifle.

No Sir, not for me. I like the way my Mosin shoots now, Plus its CMP GSM Legal.

I though I would be in the minioity bu it looks like just south of 50% voted NO THANKS


The stock isn't going to be in the $200 dollar range. Just goes to show how well (or lack there of) you read this thread, kraigwy.

These stocks are designed for pure, PURE, drop in installation. No gunsmithing needed. That's my job. I build the stock, I build the bedding block, you enjoy the rifle and it's expected accuracy gains.

I am quite offended that you think it'll turn a $100.00 rifle, which were made by the millions, into a $50.00 rifle.

Though, like stated. I'm not holding the proverbial gun to your head to make you buy it. Maybe I can change your mind down the road. Who knows. This stock is built for purpose. A nice accessory for someone who whats to change the look of their old warhorse, or have a stock that they can build a custom rifle off of.

[loose_holster_dan]

i'm not sure if you've ever tried google sketchup. it's a free 3d modeling software by google. a little tricky to figure out, but it has to be better than paint.

http://sketchup.google.com/download/

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Downloaded that software last night. Been trying to make sense of it ever since. I just can't get the drawings to do what I want them to.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

For those of you who are following what I'm doing with these stocks, visit the album link to keep updated on some different design ideas. I'm making some headway into getting the materials, but a search for free supplies always takes a while (I'm unemployed so gotta make do with what I can get).

Also, if you'd like to keep informed on what's going on, visit the bottom link.

Custom Designs (http://s1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Custom%20Designs/)

THR Thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=615039)

[Ozzieman]

I think they would make a very good business venture. A lot would depend on the quality and materials.
But for me no, the reasons are for old military guns, I like them original.

[tobnpr]

I think you do need to hit a price-point.
Boyd's and Richards Microfit already offer stocks for the MN, so what you're proposing isn't really anything new, other than perhaps the tactical style.

I have a sporter in a Boyd's stock, bedded the receiver, and installed pillars. Shoots just over minute of angle with handloads.

I think if you can get in the $100-$200 range you might be a competitor.

The "thing" that separates a MN from the rest of the pack (Mausers,etc) is that they cannot be re-barreled with any degree of fiscal sanity. No one manufactures a pre-threaded and chambered barrel for them. All you can do, is find another 70 year old action with a decent 70 year old barrel...

I love my Mosin-Nagant, but I also recognize it's limitations.

[HKFan9]

So you take a $100 rifle, put on a 200 or so stock, an additional couple hundred in gunsmith services and you get a $50 rifle.

No Sir, not for me. I like the way my Mosin shoots now, Plus its CMP GSM Legal.

Sorry but I have to agree with Kraig.

After all the labor.. money.. and tinkering... you could have just gone and bought a used Remington or a Savage... which will be more accurate.. and more ammo available.

What I am getting at is your going to end up with a rifle that isn't competition legal (a big selling point for the mosin) that wont perform the same as a modern design. So really you just have a labor intensive paper puncher.... which is fine if you want to tinker around for yourself.. but as far as making them for others... I would have a feeling your business would not last long.

[Hawk7173]

I have a reputation of being kind of a traditionalist when it comes to rifle platforms, but I will say that I am impressed with the look of the first several stocks.

[Therealkoop]

If theres one thing I hate its a shoddily crafted, rotted out old mosin nagant. Everytime I go to the range I see "that guy" with one, struggling to hit paper.

Im far from an elitist when it comes to what guns/brands to own, but I see no reason to own one of those piles of crap. Spend the extra money and get something respectable. If you are literally so poor that you must use a 50$ rifle to hunt with, then great and I wish you luck.

But if you are just amassing them because they are cheap, why?

[HKFan9]

They are a decent cheap rifle one can compete in CMP competitions with.... there are shooting worlds outside of hunting there bud...:eek:

I have a Mosin... so maybe I am THAT guy... but I also have a safe full of old Sako's... and sub MOA "tactical" rifles that will print 1 hole at 100 yards.

The reason why I have the mosin.... because they are $50 to $100.... is there a reason NOT to have one.... Ammo is dirt cheap.... and most importantly...

I LIKE SPEAKING IN A BAD FAKE RUSSIAN ACCENT TO MY FRIENDS.:D

They are $1000 dollars worth of fun for only $50.:cool:

Not to mention if you put the bayonet on.. when your out of ammo... you have a handy war pike.;)

They are MORE accurate after consuming high amounts of Vodka *** JUST A JOKE, DONT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS**

[michael m]

Yesterday, 11:40 PM #51
Therealkoop
Im far from an elitist when it comes to what guns/brands to own, but I see no reason to own one of those piles of crap


I like my Mosin Nagant. It shoots low and to the left, but if you know your rifle you can allow for this. As wrote above ammo is cheap, and they are a lot of fun to shoot. Maybe people should not be gun snobs and let people enjoy the guns they want without people judging them.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I realize that these stocks aren't everyone's cup of tea. But I'm also not forcing everyone to buy them with the proverbial gun to the forehead.

If it's not your style, great. Don't buy it. But it IS someone's else. I'm not too big of a fan of a tacticooled stock for a mil-surp rifle, but I gave it a draw up, liked the look, and posted to see if anyone else did. Obviously some do.

The price point is going to be set pretty cheap. I'm aiming for right around a c-note. Gives someone who isn't making enough for one of them newer tactical styled rifles a chance at another, cheaper, less modern substitute. Bear in mind, these rifles are tactical, too, they are battle rifles.

All I'm doing is giving someone who wants it a better look for their rifles. It's your money, do as you see fit. You can buy my stock, or you can go buy Boyd's, or you can keep yours plain. It's up to you. All I can do is convince you through design and function.

[tobnpr]

Go for it!
I emailed Boyd's just a couple of weeks ago asking them to make their "Tacticool" stock for the Mosin.

I need a benchrest stock, and the ones they offer are more hunting style.
I'm getting ready to chop off the one I have, and use our Choate tactical stock as a template for the buttstock, and marry them together.

I do believe you could have some success with a tactical style, at the price point you mentioned.

Good luck with it!

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Thank you! That's what I'm aiming for.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

For those of you who're still interested in this endeavor of mine, it has been decided that, through popular demand, that the SV-98 design will be the first one made.

And through some suggestions from a couple neighbors on THR, I've opened up a PayPal account to accept donations to get these stocks under-way. Now, I'm not asking for much, well, nothing at all, but it's a way you can show your support of the project and to help accelerate the process.

The ID on PayPal is: [email protected]

You don't have to give anything, but it's up to you if you would like to see a stock made-up and tested sooner rather than later. I'd also ask that you send a PM letting me know amount donated, if any, so I know who to thank.

I also set up a Facebook page for this stock endeavor. If you'd like to follow, here's the link:

LJ's Mil-Surp Stocks (http://www.facebook.com/pages/LJs-Milsurp-Stocks/166335930124105#!/pages/LJs-Milsurp-Stocks/166335930124105)

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

And for those who lay money down at the start will get that amount in credit towards the stock of their choice, or towards engraving, what-have-you. Could go towards finishing... it's up to the customer. This would work great for those who want to get their dibs in on a stock first, because if I land myself a job before the cost of materials is reached through donations, those members who have donated will be refunded their donation, AND will be able to keep their credit towards their stock of choice. Sound fair enough?

[jhnrckr]

You are a million miles from profit , be prepared to spend some serious money to take this project from MS Paint to on-shore fab.

[davery25]

hows the progress of these going?

[shooter_john]

Good luck, I hope these take off for you. I'm going to need a 1903 Springfield stock too... Just saying.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Davery25: That's why I'm holding these donations. Because I haven't been able to make any progress (hard times, no job), a guy on THR who's been helping me out a lot over on THR suggesting holding a donation. As soon as the donation get to where I can get the materials for it, it will take off from there.

Shooter John: I think an M1903 stock is in order... Don't have one to model after though, so eventually.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Hey guys, just to inform you all, over on the Surplus Rifle Forum, my thread was closed because:

Deacon KC says:
This is locked until you can convince the Mods this is not a scam or fishing trip. Please put your real ideas together and forwared it to us. We are 100% behind anyone bringing forth good ideas for the firearms fraternity. Good luck in this endeavor.


To which I responded via PM:

Business Model:

I plan to bring forth various modernized, custom stocks for the Mosin Nagant, Mauser, and K31 rifles, among others down the road, giving customers a very affordable, yet high quality accessory that, in theory, will improve accuracy through proper bedding, barrel channel specifications, and numerous hours of R&D in making a bedding block that will fit all stocks made, regardless of which rifle you install this block to, using proprietary methods.

Due to my unemployment, this project was put on hold until I had the funds (a job) to pay for this. I have numerous people interested, and involved in the project. KAMAK, Savage1r, Gunnerboy, among others from The High Road (www.thehighroad.org) have helped me through various stages and ideas for this project, putting me where I am today. They've been a major inspiration to keep going, and it makes me feel good to have such support.

Due to being unemployed and being put on hold because of lack of funds, Savage1r PM'd (Private Messaged) me suggesting that I ought to create a PayPal account to accept donations from those who'd like to help speed the process along. I wasn't all for it, until I had discussed the donations idea with both him, and LoonWulf (another member on THR) via PM's, and we all came to the conclusion that I should turn their donations into credit towards a stock of their choice.

These donations are staying on PayPal until I'm ready to purchase the materials needed, but not until I get the express permission from ALL of those who donated. If they have a change of heart, it's that easy to issue a refund. I have absolutely no problem with that. It's their money, not mine. I will not touch these funds until I have the permission of the others. I still have the full balance on PayPal from the three donations that have been submitted so far.

I AM NO THIEF. I am a man of high morals, and I am not one to engage in shadowy endeavors. I have been as honest as can be about this project. I have told no lies, about my experience or intent. I am a responsible gun owner like the rest of us on this forum. I hope you can see that I am not out to hurt anyone through "fishing" and I assure you that this is no scam.

A appreciate the wish for good luck, as I'm going to need a lot of it in the near future. I am not planning to make this into a huge, million-dollar-a-year business. This is a side-job I have decided to pursue, and I'm glad, through the support I have recieved, that I decided to take this on. I'm not out to make a huge profit selling these stocks, just some money for a "Gun-Fund" of sorts. Some cash that I can set aside and use solely for future purchases, but that's only after I give the investors a good return on their investment, putting a percentage of their donations/starter funds either towards a stock, or to be transfered back via PayPal once able. I am a verified member on PayPal, and intend to stay in good standing with the Firearm Community.

Thanks for reading, with utmost sincerity,
LJ.

I hope this reply is suitable. It really sucks that I'm giving this everything I've got, and still getting burned.:mad:

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Sorry I didn't mention anyone here. I've been spending a lot of time over on the high road :o

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

UPDATE:

So I managed to get to Menard's to pick up some supplies. Here's the list:

10" Half-Round Bastard File- $6.38
3M Sandpaper, Very Fine (220 grit)- $2.17
3M Sandpaper, Fine (150 grit)- $2.17
3M Sandpaper, Medium (100 grit)- $2.17
3M Sandpaper, Course (60 grit)- $2.17
Rust-oleum Forest Green Camo Paint- $3.89
3/4" x 4' x 8' Birch Plywood, Veneer core- $44.97
Titebond III Wood Glue- $12.83

Coming to a total of $76.75.

Should be getting my start here pretty soon!

[sc928porsche]

FYI. Richards Microfit will inlet almost any of their styles for the Mosin.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I have a camo laminate stock blank ( reads big block of camo laminate wood of the appropriate size to cut a stock out of ) I could donate towards building me an SV-98 stock if you want to try making me one, I'd pay for your labor ( provided it's realistic ) & provide the wood... you could test fit & make final actual measurements, as well as take some pictures... before sending me the stock... if you're interested...

BTW... it's funny, because I don't even have a Nagant right now, but would buy one & accurize it after getting the stock...

for the nay sayers about these rifles being junk, & inaccurate... I have an SKS that my buddy & I accurized that shoots 2" 10 shot groups at 200 yards with sardine can ammo... I'm quite sure that changing out the barrel to a fresh one, & proper stock fitment, along with some other possible mods, could turn the $100.00 Mosin into the tack driver my $89.00 SKS is right now

[upstate81]

I see what your trying to do here and I think its a great idea. Your gearing this to the folks that buy a mosin because its a mosin and that is their motive not cause its a 100 dollar piece of russian pine and old tractor parts ol ivan slapped together. The fact is a lot of people including myself would love to see a nice piece of wood on their guns if it makes the gun shoot better so be it. Its for the mil surp owner and lover of those period rifles, not a person who wants a cheap shooter. Keep it up.

[TriumphGuy]

I'm not much of a Nagant lover, but I wouldn't mind having a K31 with a more modern stock. Given that they shoot 1MOA without any attention, it's a heck of a good starting point. I could see having a K31 action re-chambered for .308 in one of these.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

sc928porsche:FYI. Richards Microfit will inlet almost any of their styles for the Mosin.

But Richard's Microfit doesn't offer an SV-98 styled stock. :cool:

Magnum Wheel Man:
I have a camo laminate stock blank ( reads big block of camo laminate wood of the appropriate size to cut a stock out of ) I could donate towards building me an SV-98 stock if you want to try making me one, I'd pay for your labor ( provided it's realistic ) & provide the wood... you could test fit & make final actual measurements, as well as take some pictures... before sending me the stock... if you're interested...


Sure. I'll let you know when, and I'll send ya a PM at that time. I'm going to try on my wood so that way I don't booger up a piece that's been donated.:o I probably won't charge too much for labor, but I'll figure that in when I start working in to my materials. $76.75 isn't that bad for materials for 3-4 stocks. But that's before I go and get my bedding block/scope mount design built.

Upstate81:
I see what your trying to do here and I think its a great idea. Your gearing this to the folks that buy a mosin because its a mosin and that is their motive not cause its a 100 dollar piece of russian pine and old tractor parts ol ivan slapped together. The fact is a lot of people including myself would love to see a nice piece of wood on their guns if it makes the gun shoot better so be it. Its for the mil surp owner and lover of those period rifles, not a person who wants a cheap shooter. Keep it up.

Thank you! I've dealt with a lot of nay-sayers saying that I was trying to accurize a POS, when people should be focusing on a more modern rifle to accurize. I'm sorry, but when I have the ability to put together a rifle that cost me a C-Note to acquire, the total amount of money put into the project isn't anywhere near as expensive as some of the other add-ons that more modern rifles have available.

It really isn't that hard to accurize a Mosin Nagant. And it's cheap. IMHO, the Mosin Nagant is the easiest rifle to accurize. Why? Because you can go a ~$2 trigger job that reduces trigger pull weight, creates a two-stage trigger, and reduces slop, and all you need is a washer and a paper clip (I managed this all for free, had the materials just laying around).

Bedding? No problem. Glass bedding is easy, because the inletting of the stock has a lot less cut outs than some of them could have. There's another easy modification.

UK-59 barrels? Another good modification that has a potential to being extremely accurate, along with Teludyne Tech's straight jacket (not sure about the cost with this one).

Then there's mojo sights and special front sights... The list goes on. And the funny thing is? You can look at the guy who has a $1500 dollar rifle that can be out-shot by a rifle who's total cost could reach about $400 dollars. Now how satisfying a day will that be when you see his rifle put to shame by a "POS?"

TriumphGuy:
I'm not much of a Nagant lover, but I wouldn't mind having a K31 with a more modern stock. Given that they shoot 1MOA without any attention, it's a heck of a good starting point. I could see having a K31 action re-chambered for .308 in one of these.

K31 stocks will likely follow shortly after I get my foot in the door with the Mosins. They are extremely accurate rifles, and it's amazing what kind of accuracy they can get when they're "accurized," like they need anymore. But come on, who doesn't want a Sub-MOA K31? Or even a Mosin Nagant for that matter?;)

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I'm going to be starting the build tomorrow. Will post pictures, and links to videos on YouTube. Wish me luck!

[rickyrick]

Post #51 are you serious? That was the most gun snobby post I have ever seen.


I am a long, long long, long ways away from poor and I own one.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Gun snobbery will never end. It will always be there, as long as someone thinks that they, and what they own, is better than you and your possessions.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Okay, so I just got some work done, not as much as I'd like though. Batteries died in the jig saw.

I'm not too happy with the quality of the wood though, it's almost as if they hid the defects in the middle of the board. I'm still going to continue though, for R/D sake. I'll even test the stock under fire as well. Here are the pictures I took today:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/100_1321.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/100_1322.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/100_1323.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/100_1326.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/100_1327.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/100_1325.jpg

And here's the link to the video:

http://youtu.be/hUzwGpFIAnQ

Will be doing more tomorrow.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

my piece of wood is made for gun stocks & should be void free, & is thick enough that you won't have to glue any layers together...

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

MAGNUM WHEEL MAN:
My piece of wood is made for gun stocks & should be void free, & is thick enough that you won't have to glue any layers together...

That'd be a blessing. But, might as well get my practice in and what have you, so when I am able to work on yours, I won't booger anything up. I don't, however, have the ability to inlet.

[insaneranger]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet or not, but if you can locate a Finnish made Mosin Nagant M39, you'll find that accuracy your 1944's been missing. The M39's have Finnish made barrels that are extremely accurate, much more accurate than the original Russian models. The accuracy of the M39's would be more worthy of those nice aftermarket stocks.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Wish I could afford one. But if you can make a run of the mill mosin shoot better out of one of these stocks, you can make anything shoot better, lol.

Batteries charged faster than I thought they would, so I decided to move on through the process to make Part II of Project SV-98.

The only problem I'm seeing is the same as above, some porosity in the wood (voids) that aren't good. But, I'm still going to keep the process moving, hopefully it will all work out okay as far as recoil goes.

The stock turned out to be about 2.5" thick, without being clamped. That's part three, where it will be glued and clamped (tomorrow).

Here's the YouTube link:

http://youtu.be/1IazSIAqvoM

Here's the pictures:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20II/100_1330.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20II/100_1331.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20II/100_1332.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20II/100_1333.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20II/100_1334.jpg

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I got the pieces glued together and clamped. I had an oops and used too much glue, but now I know. I'll use less next time. Had no real problems, but due to the excess amount of glue, I'll have to so some unnecessary shaping. Oh well, you live, you learn. Trial and error.

I'm going to let the stock sit clamped under pressure for a week before I take pressure off of it. We'll see what happens then.

Here's the link to YouTube:

http://youtu.be/36f5FDh5-uA

And here are the pictures:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20III/100_1345.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20III/100_1344.jpg
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20III/100_1343.jpg

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Hey guys,

I took the stock out of the clamps and started shaping it a little bit here and there. There's a lot of photos on this take, so I'm just going to post the links to PhotoBucket and YouTube.

Thanks for tuning in, guys!

PhotoBucket:

http://s1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20IV/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkcrrHeWKzA&context=C31cc75dADOEgsToPDskJObmbwHxUjRxLfhaLroH_J

[johnwilliamson062]

I would be interested, again if the price is right. I hate to put 100.00 into an 100.00 rifle.
This is your problem. I don't think there are many stocks available for under $100 that are not injection molded or some other flimsy process. THat won't work for a target rifle and you aren't going to be able to produce these anywhere close to the scale of TAPCO. With the adjustable comb and LOP you are looking at $100 of hardware.

I think some olympic medals were won with Mosins, so they can be accurate, but not cheaply.

As a hobby where you are expecting to make $1 an hour this will probably work. I don't think you can make a living off them though. You just can't sell enough at any possible price point IMO.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

As I have said quite a few times, this is a side gig. Nothing more.

[Budda]

I like your energy, But if you looked for a job as hard as you are working on this you would not be unemployed. :confused:

Some other issues. How are you going to manufature them? CNC machine? Not cheap. Hand make each one? Better be $700+ to make it worth your while. If you really want to make gunstocks then start with a more popular gun. like the REM.700 or SAKO. where people are more willing to throw down money on a custom stock

Your business plan is week. If you want someone to take you serious then fix the business plan.;)

use a 3-D model program. Paint shop is for fifthgraders.

R&D from begged $100 rifle? if you cant afford a few $100 rifles for development then you have other issues.:rolleyes:

Living on your moms or girlfriends dime is not cool while you do this.:eek:

I hope you have good luck. I am not trying to be mean, just a dose of reality.

If this is just a hobby WHILE you look for work........then by all means....:D

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

I like your energy, But if you looked for a job as hard as you are working on this you would not be unemployed.


Minimal job openings, haven't had a call for an interview yet, thank you.

Some other issues. How are you going to manufature them? CNC machine? Not cheap. Hand make each one? Better be $700+ to make it worth your while. If you really want to make gunstocks then start with a more popular gun. like the REM.700 or SAKO. where people are more willing to throw down money on a custom stock


I plan on making a duplicator when I DO manage to get a job. What makes it worth my while is the fact that I made the stock, for the rifle I want, and that other people are excited to see it made for the same rifle(s). I'll start with the rifles I want, and can afford. Forget the Remchesters. There IS NO character with them, and I am doing this for a part of the market that isn't as strong, but has a lot of people in it. This is the whole reason I'm doing these for Mausers, K31's, Mosins, etc., because EVERYBODY does them for the Remchesters.

Your business plan is week. If you want someone to take you serious then fix the business plan.

Not really looking for investors. Mainly doing this for people that would like a stock. I'm not trying to make millions of dollars off of this. Like I said, more of a hobby than anything.

use a 3-D model program. Paint shop is for fifthgraders.
Working with what I have available. My computer won't support it, it's only a little netbook. So I'm making do. Forgive me if that's a problem, because I've done it all my life.

R&D from begged $100 rifle? if you cant afford a few $100 rifles for development then you have other issues.

I have a Mosin Nagant. No problem there. I don't want to booger mine up, mainly looking for one that has already been sporterized just for testing purposes. Rifle would be returned, but I decided to let some non-biased people test them for themselves using their own rifles.

Living on your moms or girlfriends dime is not cool while you do this.

The only thing I'm supported on is food. That's it. My car is parked because I can't afford gas or insurance, I have to find a way to make money for smokes and what not. No money for these has came from the parents, and I'm single, so no girlfriend either.
Not looking to be cool, buddy.

I hope you have good luck. I am not trying to be mean, just a dose of reality.

I know you're not trying to be mean, and by the above, neither am I. I'm just irritated with nay-sayers, lol. I am fully aware of this reality. Why do you think I'm being honest through production? I'm having a lot of difficulties with what I'm doing, and I have already made some mistakes that I shouldn't have let myself make in the first place, but oh well. You live, you learn. My childhood was cut short early, I know what reality is. It's harsh at times but you gotta keep getting through it. Much like I'm doing now.

If this is just a hobby WHILE you look for work........then by all means....

It's a hobby I plan on carrying out while working too. :)

[johnwilliamson062]

You are thinking about making them for K31s? I know a few people who might drop $500+ for a good K31 stock.
You still won't make much money, but maybe a little.

Your inputs will be almost nothing as it seems you own/have free access to the tools you need. You just have to accept you are going to be compensated a few dollars an hour for your labor(at best).

Make a GOOD K31 target stock, that you can run through a duplicator pretty quickly, and you might be able to make enough money to pay your mortgage AND buy a can of dinty moore beef stew every day.

I am currently in the unemployed boat. I know it sucks. I had a company all excited to hire me than inform me they hire in "classes" and since they're hiring so few now they aren't having another "class" until June. Trying to see if they can put me in the mail room or something until then. Bouncing from temp work to temp work in the meantime and have spent some time working out of the country(which was fun and I picked up some experience, but I made very little money and probably came closer than I want to think about to getting a Dewalt shave). 17% of people under 30 are unemployed and a whole lot more are "under-employed." Every job I apply to I face people with 10-15 years of experience in the field on top of the education I have. I started leaving indications of my age off my resume and that is when I started getting interviews for serious jobs, but still no luck. I am racking up some pretty good interview experience.

This will likely keep you from going crazy while you look and if the stocks are inletted correctly I don't think you will have trouble selling them for at least the cost of materials, so you won't lose on the deal. I haven't worked in a month straight and now I am starting to go crazy(probably why I am posting here again). Spending $5 on a pack of cigarettes is probably a worse idea than this(and I say probably only to be nice).

[johnwilliamson062]

You are thinking about making them for K31s? I know a few people who might drop $500+ for a good K31 stock.
You still won't make much money, but maybe a little.

Your inputs will be almost nothing as it seems you own/have free access to the tools you need. You just have to accept you are going to be compensated a few dollars an hour for your labor.

Make a GOOD K31 target stock, that you can run through a duplicator pretty quickly, and you might be able to make enough money to pay your mortgage AND buy a can of dinty moore beef stew every day.

I am currently in the unemployed boat. It sucks. I had a company all excited to hire me than inform me they hire in "classes" and since they're hiring so few now they aren't having another "class" until June. Trying to see if they can put me in the mail room or something until then. Bouncing from temp work to temp work in the meantime and have spent some time working out of the country(which was fun and I picked up some experience, but I made very little money and probably came closer than I want to think about to getting a Dewalt shave). 17% of people under 30 are unemployed and a whole lot more are "under-employed." Every job I apply to I face people with 10-15 years of experience in the field on top of the education I have. I started leaving indications of my age off my resume and that is when I started getting interviews for serious jobs, but still no luck. I am racking up some pretty good interview experience.

This will likely keep you from going crazy while you look and if the stocks are inletted correctly I don't think you will have trouble selling them for at least the cost of materials, so you won't lose on the deal. I haven't worked in a month and now I am starting to go crazy(probably why I am posting here again). Spending $5 on a pack of cigarettes is probably a worse idea than this(and I say probably only to be nice).

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Indeed, but they're helping the sanity at this point. I'm looking for a cheaper alternative for quality. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Companies get away with charging so much because we let them...

[johnwilliamson062]

No, they charge so much b/c they can't hire someone for $1 an hour and they have to make huge equipment investments. You aren't paying for equipment, labor, probably no insurance, no real estate costs, no warehousing, probably no marketing, etc.

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

My last was a generalized statement. This is capitalism. Everybody pays something for something, and sometimes it's over-priced. If all services were as cheap as they should be, we wouldn't have high over-head prices.

There are just too many people looking to make a buck off of others. I'm not digging that.

[booker_t]

Through life, other people will always tell you what you should or should not do. How you should or should not do your job, your hobbies, your marriage, and how you tie your shoes.

What methods or tools he is using are clearly a function of his means. Lay off the guy, he's just trying to stay active while other parts of his life get sorted out. I don't think he came on here to be blasted for his life choices, or lectured about how to get a job or manage his finances. If he wants to make a stock and see how it works, that's his perogative. I am interested to see what he comes up with.

Microsoft started with a few guys in a garage. Dell started with a young man hustling memory cards on the side. Ross Perot was down to his last few hundred bucks before he landed a contract. Every musician who ever sold an album started off learning the names of the notes on a staff. Who says some marine plywood and glue won't be the start something bigger and better.

[zfk55]

You're going to make k31 stocks??? Do you have even a remote idea of what it takes to make k31 and 1911 long rifle stocks? I sincerely doubt it.
We use our Terrco 2 up machine with specialty jigs for nose and tail made in our machine shop.
All I can say is "the best of luck", and you're going to need more than that.
k31s? :D

[booker_t]

We use our Terrco 2 up machine with specialty jigs for nose and tail made in our machine shop.

Considering it was designed in the spring of 1931, I would imagine the first few prototypes were made from blanks with basic wood turning equipment, and finished with hand tools.

A 1-MOA stock could certainly be built by hand, and likely improved to sub-MOA with proper inletting, finishing and bedding (assuming the rest of the gun and the ammo was up to the task).

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

zfk, I do appreciate this:

You're going to make k31 stocks??? Do you have even a remote idea of what it takes to make k31 and 1911 long rifle stocks? I sincerely doubt it.
We use our Terrco 2 up machine with specialty jigs for nose and tail made in our machine shop.
All I can say is "the best of luck", and you're going to need more than that.
k31s?

Just makes me want to prove you, and all the others who doubt me wrong.

And thank you, booker t.

Here's Part V of the project:

Part V of the build process is here, I did some shaping, cutting, sanding, trimming... the whole she-bang. She's looking pretty good. I took the belt sander and started working on some angles on the hand grip and trigger guard area, then I moved to the dremel and started cutting into the stock for shaping (much like the way a router would) and shaped in the body lines.

Here's a link to the album:

http://s1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20V/

Here's a link to the album:

http://s1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Project%20SV98/Project%20SV%2098%20Part%20V/