Bloodwork Came in

[studman5578]

The results are in! After realizing that I had sources of exposure that I wasn't previously aware of (mostly the meadia from tumblers) I thought I should get my lead level tested. I came in at 10.1 mcg/dL. Not horrible, but not great. I have some work to do in lowering it but i'm no longer gravely concerned for myself! Thanks to all you guys here at TFL for alerting me to these possible exposure sources and encouraging me (by example) to get tested.

[Wag]

What CAN you do to lower it? I thought lead was like mercury; once it's in your system, it can't be taken out.

--Wag--

[Doyle]

What CAN you do to lower it? I thought lead was like mercury; once it's in your system, it can't be taken out.


Old fashioned blood letting? Not that I'd want to try.

[studman5578]

Well, from my understanding, the body does remove lead, just very slowly. Also, there's chelation therapy, which involves either taking by injection or orally, a compound that grabs lead and gets passed out through urine. This is the same therapy used for Mercury actually.

what's dangerous about lead (aside from the fact thats carcinogenic) isn't that it can't be GOTTEN out, its that the body doesn't have the means to do it without medical assistance. kindof like asbestos in cells, which is what causes that type of cancer. In cells, once asbestos is absorbed, it gets released into the general fluid of the cell, and since the cell has no way of exporting it, it accumulates. However, because of the way cells live and procreate, they divide, so the two daughter cells from one single asbestos-laden cell will both contain asbestos.

[docnyt]

Lead can be chelated from blood but it's not a common procedure and is reserved for severe cases of lead poisoning.

[snuffy]

Lead will gradually be excreted from the body. I'm certainly no doctor, nor do I know how the body rids itself of the lead, but it does leave the body. I think with me, it settles in my arse, it's getting more difficult to get it outa a chair!:eek::(

My last test, back in July, was 7.0. That's the highest it's ever been, up from 5.5 1.5 years ago. Not too hard to figure out, I've been casting and shooting a lot more in the last year.

I finally got a filter mask to use when separating brass from the tumbler media. Damn thing is such a loose fit, I doubt it does any good. But I still will use it. I'm sure that's where the majority of the lead comes from for me.

[studman5578]

Snuffy,

I'm not sure what kid of reloading budget you've got, but you might want to be sure that the mask you're using will actually remove lead. I have a mask that I'm using now that I got from home depot. It was about 40 bucks, but it actually said its meant to remove lead, asbestos, and other toxic substances from the air. If you've got a standard medical mask, they're only meant to filter out airborne bacteria and viruses (much much larger than tiny little lead particles, that consist of only a few atoms)

[FlyFish]

Lead will depurate naturally from the body if the exposure source is controlled or eliminated, but it's a slow process. Bloodletting doesn't really help because blood is not the primary tissue for lead storage - it's a convenient tissue to sample (better than giving a piece of your liver as a sample, for example), but it's not where the majority of the lead in your body is found. Chelation therapy will work, but (as I understand) it's quite painful and not without risk, so is usually reserved for acutely toxic concentrations, on towards 100 mcg/dl or so.

The filter you want for screening out particulate lead is known as type P100 - they're very common and not expensive. My lead was up to 31 mcg/dl about 3 years ago, primarily from shooting indoors at ranges with bad ventilation, which is just about all of them. I started wearing a half-face respirator with P100 filters whenever I was in the range, whether actually shooting or not. In a year, my serum lead was down to (this is from memory) 11.6 mcg/dl, and at my last physical I was down to 7.9 mcg/dl, within the normal range (<10) for an adult in the US. If anything, my range time increased over that period. The filters work - it takes a bit of time, but you will get back to normal if you wear them.

This is the mask (http://www.northernsafety.com/Product/152-6600/3M-6000-Series-Low-Maintenance-Half-Mask-Respirators) I wear, and these are the filters (http://www.northernsafety.com/Product/153-5073/3M-5000-6000-7500-7800-Series-Respirators-P100-Pancake-Filters-with-Nuisance-Level-Organic-Vapor-Relief-2-Pack).

[studman5578]

that respirator looks pretty familiar. i think i got ripped on the price though :eek: . Do you wear these at ranges too? I have to imagine the range officers aren't a big fan of these masks, i'm sure people who aren't really knowledgeable about all this stuff would be filling their drawers if they saw somebody with a respirator on.

Flyfish - What other methods of protection did you start using? From what things did you protect yourself? Thanks.

[TXGunNut]

Range officers (and owners) need to acquaint themselves with these items. I once shot at an indoor range that couldn't keep RO's because of lead poisoning after about 90 days. Outdoor ranges with tall walls and baffles (think urban PD's) have lead exposure issues with employees as well.
Dunno what patrons will think, should be an opportunity to educate the public even tho all but a few won't be affected.

[FlyFish]

studman - I didn't do much else differently than what I'd been doing before I realized I had the elevated lead levels. I started wearing the respirator when I emptied the tumbler during reloading, and became extra careful about hand washing after handling lead, but I'd been doing that anyway. In my case, the exposure was clearly from inhalation during my indoor range sessions and the respirator took care of that.

I wear the respirator whenever I'm in the range, and particularly when sweeping up after shooting. Most of the guys on my pistol team wear them now as well, and the "Darth Vader" jokes have largely disappeared. For me, it's become part of my routine. Most of us wouldn't think of shooting without eye and ear protection - the respirator is just one more health & safety item to add to the list. I'm so used to it now that I'd feel naked without it.

[studman5578]

Hm. I think i'll start wearing my respirator at the gun range. It has very very poor ventilation. When I leave there, I can actually feel a tickle in the back of my throat after a short 30 min range session. The only reason I haven't made a stink about it is because all of the employees there are really nice guys, and they have primers for within 2 bucks of 32.00/brick, depending on the brand/type :eek: . Thanks to both of you for the advice. Its good to know that people have actually been able to substantially lower their exposure levels without requiring medical treatment. Good news for the woman to hear :D (keeping the hobby alive!).

[studman5578]

So since my 10.3 in September, I've been keeping better lead hygiene, wearing a lead respirator when casting, and wearing latex gloves when handling lead, and I got my re-test results yesterday. I now am at 8.8 micrograms/dl. Not a bad drop. Ideally I'd like to be under 5, but I'm happy with less than 10. I'll keep getting tested every 3 months if I continue to cast in significant volume (visits are covered and take about 30 min). I also haven't visited my indoor range lately, so we will see how that factors in when I go to the range in the upcoming weeks.

[spacecoast]

I don't even cast bullets (or is that boolits?) and my level was 14 when tested last year. My doctor didn't seem to be concerned.

I have been giving blood several times a year for 20 years (50 times total), so presumably that is a way to get rid of some lead.

[454PB]

The the OSHA regulated world, a respirator MUST be fit tested before use.

I'm sure even one of the cheap disposable particulate dust masks you find at the hardware store is better than nothing, but without fit testing, a respirator doesn't give full protection.

[zxcvbob]

The main thing, wash your hands and blow your nose when you finish shooting at an indoor range. It's not a bad idea to go home and wash your hair.

The body gets rid of lead pretty quickly, except for what's been absorbed into your bones. Most of that leaches out and is excreted eventually; I don't know what the half-life is. Welders drink a lot of milk to make sure they are maxed out on calcium so heavy metals are not absorbed as quickly in the first place.

Vitamin C is a chelating agent. Maybe take about 2 grams per day? But not at the same time you are taking calcium supplements or they will fight each other.

If you decide to wear cheap nuisance dust masks when you shoot, get the ones that are at least N95 rated.

My lead level last year was 18. I'm fixing to get it tested again to make sure it's going the right direction.

[docnyt]

^^^That's pretty sage advice.

[savagelover]

from what i was told by the guys in the foundry that the biggest issue with home casters is casting at too high of temps...If you run your temps over 700 for long periods this is when you get the dangerous fumes..You do not need it that high i think he told me 600 is pleanty....I don't cast any more..I buy mine aalready done..I aint shootin that much now....john

[zxcvbob]

Just got my results back a couple of days ago. 15. Higher than I'd like, but a nice step down from a year ago. So I'm OK with that (the doc also thought it was OK)

[theyallhurt]

A good friend of my wife and I is a respiratory therapist and when she heard I was reloading and such she gave us (me) an earful. I was talked into rigging up an exhaust fan, wearing a mask (respirator) and latex gloves. Hey, I knew peace was at stake, so I gave in.

This was several years ago and lead, powder dust...all those airborne nasties haven't ever been an issue. Overkill, perhaps, but cleaning the filter at the vent, though, really makes me think every time.

Just throwing this out there!

Happy New Year everyone!

[savagelover]

I used to use an exhaust fan right over my melting pot when I was casting..I got rid of all my casting stuff a few years ago.For the amount of shooting I do now,it is cheaper for me to buy them and alot less hassel...Plus I have more room in the shed now for other important things...:confused:

[Slamfire]

In searching for information on Lead toxicity, I found this Human Health Services document which discusses lead studies and levels.

Lead has been extensively studied

Lead (Pb) is one of the most extensively studied environmental toxicants, with more than 22,500 publications on health effects and exposure in the peer-reviewed literature.

It is a 173 page document, so I am just posting the key questions, if these are of interest, the link is below.


http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/NTP/ohat/Lead/DraftNTPMonographonHealthEffectsofLowLevelLead.pdf

2.1 Key Questions
What is the evidence that adverse health effects are associated with blood lead <10μg/dL?

What reproductive, developmental, neurological, immune, cardiovascular, and renal health effect(s) are associated with blood lead levels <10μg/dL?

What is the blood lead level associated with the health effect (i.e., <10μg/dL or <5μg/dL)?

At which life stages (childhood, or adulthood) is the effect identified?

Are there data to evaluate the association between bone Pb and the health effect and how does the association to this biomarker of Pb exposure compare to the association with blood Pb?

[snuffy]

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/NTP/ohat/Le...wLevelLead.pdf

Oh boy another govmint study. What do you expect them to say? Their very existence is dependent on coming up with studies about things to ban. They've been trying to ban lead in bullets/boolits for years.

Slam,I though we had you straightened out over on THR. We would have if they'd have left that thread open.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=637203

[Slamfire]

There is more than one nation with a medical department, and with a little effort, I find similar warnings about lead toxicity from the British Health service.

I find charts with titles such as :

Figure 2: The breakdown of male lead workers under medical surveillance by industrial sector in 2009/10.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causdis/lead/index.htm

You can find data indicating that the scrap industry has the highest incidents of workers with lead levels from 80 to 100 micrograms. That is likely coming from lead dust.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causdis/lead/data.htm


There are publications titled:

Lead Toxicological overview
http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1194947332124


Looking at the warnings, lead limits, things are remarkably consistent. Like the 50 microgram per cubic meter exposure limit in a eight hour period
.
Laboratory tests
• Whole blood lead levels:
o <10 μg/dL - normal.
o >10 μg/dL - may cause impaired cognitive development in children.
o >45 μg/dL - GI symptoms in adults and children.
o >70 μg/dL - high risk of acute CNS symptoms.
o >100 μg/dL - may be life-threatening.

I have found 60's data on lead concentrations above industrial linotype pots but I have not found data on lead concentrations above a typical 20 pound casting pot. To convert from milligrams to micrograms, the current standard, multiply by 1000.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Reloading/Lead%20Toxicity/LeadConcentrationsoverleadpots.jpg

Governments have recognized lead toxicity for well over a century.

Take a look at this 1911 Industrial Labor standard.

Bulletin of the Bureau of Labor, Issues 94-96 , pages 166 and 167
http://books.google.com/books?id=8c0oAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA167&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U368T8lrAEdbNWa60HEk481-PwNww&ci=48%2C61%2C857%2C1514&edge=0


I am only fluent in English, but I will bet that someone who is fluent in Spanish, Germany, etc, would find similar brochures by other national health agencies.

Regardless, I believe that anyone using a casting pot needs to have a positive air flow to carry lead vapors outside.

Something that is not appreciated is lead dust on surfaces and clothing.

[snuffy]

From THR.

Elkins45
Member


Join Date: December 25, 2009
Location: Northern KY
Posts: 193



You would expect a metal with an atomic weight of 207 to behave the same as water?

Lead bullet casting happens around 700K. The vapor pressure of Pb at that temperature is somewhere around 0.000001 mm Hg. To give you an idea of just how low that is, normal atmospheric pressure is 760 mm Hg.

http://www.powerstream.com/vapor-pressure.htm if you want to verify my numbers. I won't claim you can't poison yourself through accidental ingestion, and powder of the oxide can be an issue, but you aren't going to breathe enough Pb vapor to do it. It's just too heavy an atom.

Plus, think about all the anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Back in the days of molten lead type lithographers spent hours in rooms full of vats of molten Linotype and we don't see reams of stories of typesetters keeling over dead at a young age.