Another Home Invasion In CT

[Daugherty16]

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/north-branford-home-invasion-investigation

The homeowner (a 60 year old woman), a 30 year old woman, a 3 year old, and when he arrived home, the homeowner's husband, were the subjects of an armed home invasion perpetrated by 5 young males wielding guns and knives. The 30 year old woman was pulled from the shower! at knifepoint. The investigation continues. I live in a neighborhood very like this about 15 miles away, but with lots more dense woods around the houses.

So, when you leave your wife and daughter at home, are they armed? Would even a 12 ga shotgun have been effective against 5 armed invaders?Prior reports indicated that a shotgun was stolen, but these women were obviously unprepared to use it, couldn't/didn't resist, and all were left physically unharmed at the end of 4.5 hours of captivity.

The cops recommend locked doors and burglar alarms. How about a large dog, or at least a noisy territorial mutt that would have given advance warning of the BG approach?

You're sitting on the couch watching TV when 5 guys crash through your rear slider and you have 3 seconds before they are in your living room with you. What do you do? Is the element of surprise and disparity of force too much to overcome? Do you wait until they separate to search the house before drawing and taking down the one or two in sight, hoping you can escape into the night with your family?

Interested in your thoughts, suggestions, precautions, tactics. I know, this precise situation isn't described in sufficient detail, but humor me.

[rolo550]

I'm certainly no expert, but if one is taken in the shower, he has to be able to separate himself and get to a gun...Same with the concept of smashing through the slider.

There was a guy in Fort Worth a few years back taken by surprise rushed to his closet for his gun and was beaten to death with a hammer along the way. Sometimes an ambush is an ambush. That being said...if you want a Monday morning quarterback type comment, id try to retreat to a point where they funnel in, like a bathroom closet or a room at the end of narrow hallway, get low, then pop em as they come in thru the door/funnel.

Any yes, often retreat after popping one or two may be the best option, or not popping anyone for that matter if you're just trying to get the family out, just go if you can - no reason to invite return fire/knife violence with kids around...

[Nnobby45]

The cops recommend locked doors and burglar alarms. How about a large dog, or at least a noisy territorial mutt that would have given advance warning of the BG approach?


Whether it's the local cops on crime, or the Federal govt. on natural disasters (man made or otherwise), having a gun so you can defend yourself is NEVER a recommendation from the govt. and seldom from the local police.

Wouldn't you fall out of your chair if you were watching the news and heard a police spokesman recommend a good firearm and training to go along with it?

You're sitting on the couch watching TV when 5 guys crash through your rear slider and you have 3 seconds before they are in your living room with you. What do you do?

Another "what would you do if you had 3 seconds to react" question.

OK, I'll humor you.

The odds favor he/she who doesn't dither.

Not likely they'd get thru my front door in a single "crash", since I have a Master door brace the goes from the bottom of the door knob to the floor. The back door is re-enforced with a large bolt that screws into the floor. Those would give me time to reach my pistol (the one I carried that day) 1 1/2 steps from where I'd likely be sitting or sprint for the bedroom for my 870 or P226. :cool:

If I'm caught in the shower and didn't hear them enter, I'm in the same amount of trouble you'd be in and there wouldn't be much to humor you about.:p

[Daugherty16]

This is more actually about - what strategies can/do you employ to prevent this this from being your home and family on the news?

[youngunz4life]

another point worth noting is the fact that this invasion was mere miles from the other infamous one that has been on the news a lot

[youngunz4life]

to answer your 4th post...I would like to personally turn our primary home defense duties back to our shotgun.

[postmaster]

It is a "dang" shame it has come to this kind of action by thugs. I don't know if one can be prepared when someone has probably already staked you out, and they decide when. The previous post of preparing first, and maybe giving you time to react to a close at hand weapon would work. However these smash and grab tactics are catching on with the slugs er thugs.

Oh and I'm glad I live in the sticks!

[Mello2u]

If I have my pants on, I have my handgun on me too.
Three seconds is more than enough time for me to draw my weapon.

[Alaska444]

Daugherty16

This is more actually about - what strategies can/do you employ to prevent this this from being your home and family on the news?


We had a bunch of home robberies in our neighborhood that eventually went away went the section 8 house went away by foreclosure. During that time, I beefed up my home defenses.

We put up strategic bars on the kitchen window, downstairs bedroom and the sliding glass door. We put a security gate on our front door so no one can just kick it in. On all of the other accessible windows, we put ACE Security laminates that will prevent all smash and grab robberies.

http://www.smashandgrab.com/

We put up Phillips dusk to dawn outside lights that turn on at night and off in the morning. We have an alarm on all windows and doors and two motion detectors.

Lastly, I always carry indoors and out when I am out of CA that is. In CA, I always have a gun available in the house. At night, we have taken further precautions with a barricade for our master bedroom followed up by two 20 ga shotguns loaded and my .357 all by my bed.

My thinking is that if the creeps make it past my outer perimeter, they are most likely very dangerous and I will be justified in defending my family should that danger of death or serious bodily injury ever arrive which I hope it doesn't.

One of the reasons I went to such lengths is the thought that with the number of robberies, I just did not want to take out a young punk kid. I know how stupid I was at that age and I am glad I got more than one chance. In many ways, it was my concern of not wanting to hurt a typical smash and grab kid that I went to such lengths so I could avoid such a confrontation. Not that I have no doubt that many of these kids carry and would not hesitate to shoot back at you, but I just didn't want to go there with a young kid who were the ones doing most of the robberies at that time around our house.

I feel pretty confident that I can keep the smash and grab creeps out of my house. I believe I can also slow down a home invasion attempt long enough to get to my shotgun which is always close by.

Sadly, with all of the home invasions in the news, it is a present day reality that you must prepare for such a possibility and hope and pray you never need to put them to the test.

[secret_agent_man]

I am rarely more than two feet from a loaded handgun. In such a situation, I figure I'm going to be killed anyway. A friend of mine was, suspended from his barn rafters and bludgeoned with a claw hammer, then shot to death by three escaped convicts from MS. So I'm taking some of them with me. They think they got game, I will show them what game is.

[Stressfire]

Wouldn't you fall out of your chair if you were watching the news and heard a police spokesman recommend a good firearm and training to go along with it?

It's been know to happen: This is from my neck of the woods (http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=133951) here in Ohio. Old news for people from the area.

What do you do in that situation where you are surprised, outnumbered, and, if all were armed, outgunned?

IMHO, you can train yourself, drill your family, and have a gun in every room in the house, when shtf all you have is snap reaction. Mine? Grab the first thing with a loaded mag, shoot it empty while working towards the next one, duck and cover all the way.

In such a situation, I figure I'm going to be killed anyway.
Pretty much my approach

As far as finding a choke point? Good idea in both theory and practice provided your floor plan and their point of entry allow for it.

[Dennis1209]

Well, there are times when you're vulnerable. Guess you can't wear a .45 around your neck in the shower. Best bet is getting all the warning time possible. A good watch dog(s) that will bark and a security system should give you a heads up but, in the shower you don't hear much? Sometimes the best laid plan go to the wayside due to timing and luck?

[jrothWA]

haven't been struck.

It comes down to mind set, if nothing happens it never will, Right?

Motion lights are best items that get the perimeter lite and gives you defined silhouette to locate. Just don't light yourself up.

Add dead-bolt locks to exterior doors ( keyed alike to keep it super simple).

Add neon night lites to dark corner that can't be readily removed / accessed.

You stage a firearm where you can retrieve it at your discretion or by-pass heading for second.

Be vigilant, not paranoid.

[Crazy88Fingers]

Shoot, and try to shoot first. They are seeking targets of opportunity and if it seems like the odds are no longer in their favor, they probably won't stick around.

A few months ago here in Miami three young guys with rifles barged into a house. The homeowner met them with a gun of his own and the robbers couldn't get out of there fast enough! The homeowner had a security camera outside his house and caught most of it on tape.

[Hiker 1]

Bad guys hate alarms and dogs. I'd say get both if you can, but if it's one or the other, get an alarm and turn it on when you come in for the evening.

Dog are dissuasive, but 5 determined guys are going to kill a dog, probably silently, especially if they've staked the place out and know you have one.

An alarm doesn't have to be fed, walked, boarded, etc and calls the cops while sounding an ear-splitting screech. Yes, they can be disabled but that doesn't happen much.

5 on 1 (or 2) does not bode well but if you can start shooting back, you will interrupt their assault. If one or more is dead or injured the others aren't going to stick around. You may go down too but if it means you protected your family, so be it.

[youngunz4life]

our alarm lasts for 48hrs if electricity goes out, someone disables it, etc. You will be able to tell it is 'on battery' as well. alarms are a good deterrent. Nothing is full-proof, but every little bit helps. We have no trespassing and other private property signs. They were to just keep 'driveby' sales people away: "I have some extra 'blank' from a job and an give it to you cheap", but criminals know when someone takes that stuff seriously they have been warned and more likely than not aren't just regular family in condition white.

[Stressfire]

Guess you can't wear a .45 around your neck in the shower.

I've heard of soap-on-a-rope, but Colt-on-a-rope might an idea...patent office, here I come...

I would think that the chances are pretty good that if homeowner displays that he/she can and will defend themselves and begins to do so, armed or not criminals are habitually opportunists and will likely hightail it at first sign of armed resistance.

Blanket statement, I realize. Alarms are always a good idea...unless you rent...

[chadstrickland]

Well if I am sitting in my living room watching tv then I am in good hands because I keep my ar15 right next to me for coyotes.

If I am taking a shower its not got for me :( no guns come with me into the shower. So unless the sight of a fat white guy with a small "cough" makes them start laughing and lose focus that may give me some sort of tactical advantage.

[Buzzcook]

The victims were finally able to free themselves around 3am and called 911. No one was injured.

In this case doing nothing worked. No injuries and no deaths equals a win in situations such as this.

[Edward429451]

IMO anyone who doesn't have a large dog nowadays is very short sighted. They are not going to silently kill the dog! They will loudly kill the dog, maybe. Five intruders do not mean Seal Team 6 is coming in. This would be a bunch of undisciplined punks working together and the more layers you give them the sooner they will break off and run. The dog will alert you to their presence soon enough to let you get a gun and engage them.

It will happen fast. Have your gun on you or close. Walk around your house and look how you would attack this house and gain entry if you were (a perp). Now you can see what and how to fortify it so that you slow them down from entry.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Deleted two posts for political silliness. Be warned and don't go there.

GEM

[45Gunner]

Wouldn't you fall out of your chair if you were watching the news and heard a police spokesman recommend a good firearm and training to go along with it?

One of my closest buddies is a police detective that works a very violent area. He constantly tells people that they have to be crazy to leave their house without being armed.

My wife is currently visiting our daughter that lives in that neighborhood of CT. They are a family of two girls and both parents work full-time jobs. There is a dog in the house but could not be considered a watch dog by any stretch of the imagination. My daughter and her husband are very anti-gun and refuse to have any conversation that has the word "gun" in it. So very strange in that my other two kids are LEO's. Go figure.

I tried to educate them about home defense after the last notable incident that happened in the same neighborhood. It fell on deaf ears. It boils down to those that are pro-active and those that rely on nothing more than dumb luck and faith that they will not be a victim. Not much different than sticking one's head in the sand.

If you are a member of this Forum or a frequent visitor, you are pro-active and probably have a plan in place. What can one do to help those that would not help themselves? They have no intention of getting another dog and they have a basic alarm system that sometimes gets turned on and sometimes it doesn't.

[Stressfire]

What can one do to help those that would not help themselves?

I don't believe there is anything one can do?

Sadly enough, my fiancee may be in that camp. Doesn't like guns either, doesn't even like that I have them, despite the fact that she grew up around them.

I would like to say that if push came to shove, she would go get one of them as I always tell her where they are and their status. I would like to tell you that if endangered, she would use it...I would really like to tell you that...:confused:

[Daugherty16]

When you've never had:

a break-in
a car jacking
an armed assault
a mugging
a rape
a friend or family member murdered
drive-by shooting
bullet holes in your front windows
and etc.

it is easy to lull oneself into the false security that comes with such good fortune, or maybe lack of misfortune. admittedly i was raised in an affluent suburb, with no real crime except what my friends and i caused ourselves, and i went around for years thinking i was safe.

Then the Petit home invasion happened only 20 miles away in a town just like mine. So now i have a CCW, plenty of firepower, and my family thinks i'm paranoid because i carry a pistol most of the time. Now this newest home invasion, only 15 miles in a different direction.

Thanks all the same, i'll take my "paranoia" over complacency and ignorance. I'm in good company on TFL. And actually, i'm tired of pointing out that "preparedness" is not synonymous with "paranoia"

Thanks for the ideas. I would like to hear more about securing a 5' sliding glass door.

[VinnyT]

You could have a plan in your head with escape routes, safe rooms, choke point, etc. Of course planning and having to actually employ the plan are two totally different things. The only thing I see as a potential bad outcome in this situation is that a perp or two HAD guns. If they see you retrieving your firearm a shootout is most likely to occur. Also, if you have a 1911 or other pistol that doesn't hold 10+ rounds, you HAVE to make sure each shot counts. I'm sure many here have extra mags, but you may not think to grab another mag in all the chaos. A revolver is even more difficult to reload quickly.

Tough one.

Of course is all IMO...

[TailGator]

Nothing - no dog, or alarm system, or firearm - can keep you completely safe. Your goal, cynical as it may be, is to be less vulnerable than someone else so the BG finds easier pickings. It is, for example, much more likely that the BG who is scouting you will decide to go to a house without a dog than that he will come up with an elaborate plan to silently kill your dog. BGs aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking to enrich themselves with the least effort possible.

And although they haven't been on TV or been the designated spokespersons for their department, I have several times had LEOs tell me that they recommend citizens, and especially small business people, be armed. Preaching to the choir, of course.

[Onward Allusion]

You're sitting on the couch watching TV when 5 guys crash through your rear slider and you have 3 seconds before they are in your living room with you. What do you do? Is the element of surprise and disparity of force too much to overcome? Do you wait until they separate to search the house before drawing and taking down the one or two in sight, hoping you can escape into the night with your family?

Well, I know what I would do in those 3 seconds... try to pull my 9mm from my holster and start shooting. Could it be the cops doing a no-knock, sure - I guess I'll be dead and my family would be well-off if that were the case.

[VinnyT]

Nothing - no dog, or alarm system, or firearm - can keep you completely safe. Your goal, cynical as it may be, is to be less vulnerable than someone else so the BG finds easier pickings. It is, for example, much more likely that the BG who is scouting you will decide to go to a house without a dog than that he will come up with an elaborate plan to silently kill your dog. BGs aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking to enrich themselves with the least effort possible.

And although they haven't been on TV or been the designated spokespersons for their department, I have several times had LEOs tell me that they recommend citizens, and especially small business people, be armed. Preaching to the choir, of course.

But you don't know if one of the BG's just wants to "off" someone for the hell of it. Doing nothing gives you a 50/50 chance of living.

[JUMP]

Thanks for the ideas. I would like to hear more about securing a 5' sliding glass door.

I have installed these on a few houses in AZ. They are amazingly strong and simple. They work great on sliding glass/french doors and windows.

http://www.qmiusa.com/homesafe/homesafe-overview.aspx

[Nnobby45]

to answer your 4th post...I would like to personally turn our primary home defense duties back to our shotgun.

Some folks consider the shotgun a backup to the more readily accessable handgun. But, if you have time to get to it, do so.

I remember reading about some detectives investigating home invasion robberies in the East, who were so impressed with the speed at which an invasion could occur, that they began arming themselves at all times while at home off duty.

Sounds like insider trading home defense strategy to me. They learned things most people never knew, and acted on their knowledge.

[Hiker 1]

It is, for example, much more likely that the BG who is scouting you will decide to go to a house without a dog than that he will come up with an elaborate plan to silently kill your dog. BGs aren't looking for a challenge, they are looking to enrich themselves with the least effort possible.

That's true with one or two bad guys. But if 5 bad guys have scouted your house, know you have a dog, and decide to come in anyway, they probably have made arrangements for dealing with it. A baseball bat to the head doesn't make a whole lot of noise.

[Nnobby45]

One of my closest buddies is a police detective that works a very violent area. He constantly tells people that they have to be crazy to leave their house without being armed.


Lots of LE would tell you that--off the record. I'm referring to spokesmen who appear on tv and advise people how to prevent crime.

That's the point. City and Police higher ups know you're better off armed. But it's politically incorrect to tell the public that.

[Naterstein]

I dont think there way anything they could have done at that point.

Pre-planning sure.

Dog
Security motion detecting flood lights.
Shatter-gard on all glass door and windows.
Alarm system loud enuff to be heard in the shower.
Firearms on person or in a discreet lockbox in primary areas (ie living room, bedroom, etc).

Thats the order I would want them in.

[m&p45acp10+1]

I just carry when I am in the house. If not carrying then I have one very close by. I live in a rented duplex so alarm system is not an option. I did reinforce the doors. The windows are plexiglass, and secured fairly well. They will not shatter from a strike. I know they would not stop a determined intruder, but it would slow them down for a few seconds atleast.

I have a dog. Though he would have to drop his ball to be effective against anyone. I doubt he would bite anyone. He does let me know when my girlfriend is home, or when the girl scouts are at the door to sell cookies. He gets happy then.:p

Due to the neighborhood my biggest concearn would be a case of wrong house home invasion. They have had a couple of them happen here. All counts the victim knew the attacker. All but one were to rob the house of drugs, and money. One was a case of wrong house. When the invaders figured out that they had the wrong house, they stabbed the elderly man that lived there, and fled. Luckily the man only suffered from non life threatening injuries. The three attackers were caught less than 20 minutes later. All were sentenced to 80 years each.

[federali]

Agree that our great white fathers in government don't subscribe to an armed response. But, guns should be your last line of defense. All the advice offered to dissuade burglars/home invaders from targeting you remain valid. These include, lights, cutting back shrubs, alarm system with panic buttons, a dog, locked doors, are all valid and should be done. When all else fails, the home invaders will flee once you shoot the first one. It ain't Hollywood. They won't want a shoot-out.

Here's where you can get into deep doo-doo. Don't give chase, putting rounds in their backs as they flee down the driveway. Call 911, ask for medical assistance for the guy you shot. And don't execute him if he's still alive. You'll be charged with murder.

[sigxder]

Actually a 12 bore shotgun would probably do just fine to ward off home invaders. About two weeks ago 4 armed males broke into a wheel chair bound
older ladies home. She had bought a single shot 12 gage to get rid of some animals that were tearing up her garden. SHe was in her bedroom and as I said 4 armed males broke into her home. She had a light load in it for the small garden pests.
When two of them broke through the door of her bedroom she let loose with a blast. One of the bad guys took most of it to the face and the second lost a finger or two. The others broke and ran. The guy that took the hit to the face survived the birdshot type load. But I doubt if their is much left of his face. The guy that lost his finger(s) didn't get them back. The other two were caught shortly their after. In most instances when these situations have happened and the home invaders have taken hits they get gone fast. No guarantees. But they are counting on the element of surprise. When one or two of them are dropped the element of surprise then falls on them.

[JustThisGuy]

Hoorah! for little old ladies with 12ga shotguns!

[230therapy]

So, when you leave your wife and daughter at home, are they armed? Would even a 12 ga shotgun have been effective against 5 armed invaders?Prior reports indicated that a shotgun was stolen, but these women were obviously unprepared to use it, couldn't/didn't resist, and all were left physically unharmed at the end of 4.5 hours of captivity.

The only effective weapon would have been the one on the belt, in the hand, or within reach at the time of the attack.

[machiasmort]

Plain and simple, if it's not close by and ready, you are toast because they will wait till you least expect it.

These puke bag States need to eliminate the Castle Doctrines and allow normal Law abidding Citizens to go on the offensive. They won't do that tho, because they all get too much money from the Federal Government for Police who seem to have the attitude (in NY) that only they should have guns.

Anytime a system is created on tax money, there is corruption. Not allowing citizens to protect themselves is just one example.

Would that 20 Y.O. punk showing crack, while bee-bopping around in public give you lip if he knew you had a .45 under your shoulder?

It shouldn't be the law abidding such as myself who have to bite our tongues!

[MLeake]

Hiker1, it appears you assume there will only be one dog, and that it will be left on its own, outdoors.

I have three, and they are primarily indoor dogs. When outdoors, the two large dogs play together. I suppose they'd be vulnerable to poisons, but a baseball bat, not so much.

Somebody harming one of my dogs while they are outdoors would be a huge tipoff that something else might follow.

And nobody approaches silently when multiple dogs are in the house.

But other things people can do, in addition to carrying while at home:

1) Don't set up the yard so that there are bushes, hedges, small trees up against the house, where intruders can hide. For night-time, motion detector lights are also a good idea.

2) Have spring and deadbolts on all exterior doors (and treat the door from the garage as an exterior door); ensure all exterior doors are good quality, and seated in strong, solid door-frames.

3) Have locks on all windows (and have good, tempered glass windows).

4) Use the locks on the doors and windows; they don't do much good otherwise.

5) Use burglar bars as well as locks on glass sliding doors.

6) If you have the money, sliding, locking metal shutters that can be rigged outside the sliding glass doors are a good idea. Swinging or sliding, locking metal shutters for the windows are, too.

7) Closed circuit TV and an intercom for the front door (and around the corners from the door, to look for potential accomplices) are a good way to look out for the BGs who knock at a door, then force it open when you go to see who's there.

And that's just for the exterior of the home. There are a bunch of things you can do inside.

And, of course, carry. But the gun is the last line of defense, not the first.

[Daugherty16]

Dont' know if that means the door was opened to a knock, they kicked it in, or went around back to a glass door. Obviously moving to a nice town isn't the answer; both of the CT invasions happened in price-exclusive neighborhoods. Very much like mine.

You have offered a lot of good ideas. But nobody has mentioned the peep sight, which i installed some years back. Allows you to see, or demand to see, someone at the door without opening it. Except when the wife hangs a wreath right over it during the holidays.

Good lighting; just saw lighting kits from Sprtsmans guide that aren't just motion sensing, they are motion tracking so the lights move with the object that tripped the sensor. Looked pretty interesting.

Bushes next to the house aren't all bad; superior thorny brambles under windows can substantially deter someone forcing their way through if they are getting all cut up and snagged in the process.

Dogs - the benefits are endless, plus most are naturally vigilant and protective. And loud. And decidedly not easy to silence, considering the BG has to come inside first in order to deal with the dog, then dispatch a moving snarling target with teeth in the dark. Of course, i would be awakened to the initial barking and will be at the top of the stairs with Mr. Mossberg and a blinding tac light.

I really like the retractable blinds for the back door; maybe a danger if your house is prone to catching fire, but otherwise like a cosmetically enhanced version of the commercial roll-down gates on every storefront in NYC.

Alarms are okay, but i think the sign by the door does most of the work. If the alarm trips and the cops get called, they are still not going to be there except to mop up the mess. Unless the alarm is trained to say "shots fired, officer down". Which would open up a whole different can of worms, but would probably get the LE there a whole lot faster.

The worst thing about these is their apparent randomness. I guess you should never buy the biggest house in the neighborhood and should drive older cars. Or at least park the Mercedes in the garage, out of sight...

[threegun]

You're sitting on the couch watching TV when 5 guys crash through your rear slider and you have 3 seconds before they are in your living room with you. What do you do? Is the element of surprise and disparity of force too much to overcome? Do you wait until they separate to search the house before drawing and taking down the one or two in sight, hoping you can escape into the night with your family?


Layers! Lighting outside, cameras outside, burglar bars, alarm system, rotweiler, and finally my family. I have given us an ounce of prevention plus the time to identify that we are under attack and acquire the defensive tools needed to repel an attack.

[MLeake]

With regard to the peep sight, I substituted in CCTV. If I were setting up a new place, I would prefer that. You don't have to approach the door to see who is there, just check the monitor.

Note: Credit where it is due, I got most of the home layering ideas from Mas Ayoob.

[threegun]

Note: Credit where it is due, I got most of the home layering ideas from Mas Ayoob.

Mine just stacked up over the years. My burglar bars came on the house when I bought it although I did add front and rear door bars. Alarm system was my first move and saved me from a potential hugh loss in valuables. Our local deputies suggested the lighting to a neighbor while we all talked about an event that happened next door. Cameras were installed after someone stole a metal welcome mat from out front of my house while my boys were home alone and in serious fear (strange man looking shady out front stealing things). The wife and I wanted to be able to watch the house from our cell phones.....we love this BTW.....my boys not so much LOL. Finally the dog. My boys get credit for this because they whined and cried until I gave in. The Rotty is turning into an early warning system and a buttocks chewing machine.

I guess I just lucked into my system over time.

[chadstrickland]

I seriously need to get one :(

[threegun]

One what?

[insolentshrew]

And although they haven't been on TV or been the designated spokespersons for their department, I have several times had LEOs tell me that they recommend citizens, and especially small business people, be armed. Preaching to the choir, of course.

My dad is a dentist and a few of his patients are local pd/sheriff's deputies. The most recent LEO that was in his chair knew that my dad was a hunter, gun owner, conceal carry holder, and asked "so what are you packing around the office?" and was astonished that he said nothing. He generally carries when going to his office at night to do paperwork, etc. - but I told him he should keep something on him, preferably something bigger in his back office, and if the front counter girls felt comfortable - something up front for them.

My step-mom agree at least with him carrying something on him at all times even while working, he owns his own practice and doesn't even make use of some of the benefits of being a small business owner. I would be ecstatic to be able to carry at work, and I single handedly would never be able to convince the owners otherwise unless something drastic happened here, which I hope it never does.

[Edward429451]

(A Rottie!)

Hiker1, that would only be possible if the dog were in a coma upon arrival. If one is really worried about them taking out your lone dog, get another dog and that'll turn away even more people.

Any dog owner should know that dogs have a sense of duty and need to have a job. If you give them this encouragement to duty, they will be happy controllable, aggressive dogs who take their job seriously. One bark is for friends and another bark is for strangers or uniforms. I love dogs.

Home Depot or Lowes has a cheapish (185) camera setup that I use and has one cam and the remote but can easily be tied to an extra TV, and it works very good. It takes up to four cams I think.

[Microgunner]

We've got the finest home security available, two great big ol' dogs and a crazy woman with a .357mag.
God help the poor dumb sob who tries it out.

[Hiker 1]

Hiker1, it appears you assume there will only be one dog, and that it will be left on its own, outdoors.
I have three, and they are primarily indoor dogs. When outdoors, the two large dogs play together. I suppose they'd be vulnerable to poisons, but a baseball bat, not so much.

I assume nothing - if you have 3 dogs, you probably aren't going to have a home invasion. If you have 3 dogs and 5 BG's decide that it's still worth the risk, you and your dogs have a serious problem.

[Hiker 1]

Hiker1, that would only be possible if the dog were in a coma upon arrival. If one is really worried about them taking out your lone dog, get another dog and that'll turn away even more people.

Probably true. It' also highly unlikely that 5 somewhat-organized armed BG's are going to target your house anyway.

If they have recon'd your house, know you have protective dogs, they're probably not coming. If they know this and come anyway, there is something inside that they want pretty badly.

[threegun]

I was talking to a detective from the Tampa Police Department on Tuesday and he said in his 10 years of service he has seen only one home invasion that was NOT linked to drugs (as in home owner is a dope dealer). Seems they are rare for those of us who aren't into curb side pharmaceuticals.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Would even a 12 ga shotgun have been..." Yep. If you are good enough and have practiced on multiple targets. Mind you, nothing is going to help when you're pulled nekkid from the shower.
A dog can make a difference though. Even little dogs. Territorial creatures, so they are, that will defend their humans. Most criminals are afraid of dogs too.
"...NOT linked to drugs..." Mostly Asian gangbangers attacking hard working Asian businessmen's homes, up here.

[1911Colt]

Times (or the area) are pretty bad when you have to carry a gun in the shower ... :mad:

[VinnyT]

Layers! Lighting outside, cameras outside, burglar bars, alarm system, rotweiler, and finally my family. I have given us an ounce of prevention plus the time to identify that we are under attack and acquire the defensive tools needed to repel an attack.

Sad we have gotten to this point. I agree to be proactive but damn you need to live too! I have the basics: Deadbolts & outside lighting. If someone still wants to break-in, they will receive a warning & then the business end of the nine. I will not live in fear or worry about stopping a BG from harming me or my family.

[threegun]

VinnyT, I don't live in fear. Not from attack anyway. My fear is not keeping my kids and even the wife LOL safe.

With my system in place it allows me to let my guard down from condition yellow while in my home and still have the time to meet an attack. It gives me peace of mind especially when my kids or wife are home alone. Finally it keeps my valuables safe when we aren't home.

I can grab my cell phone or a laptop and literally see inside and outside my house live from 16 cameras (13 outside and 3 inside) all but two of them are night vision capable. This whole system cost only 2500 bucks. Thats DVR, Cameras, Cables, Power supplies, and Connectors. I did the install which was easy as pie.

If they still want to come in, I have the firearms waiting also.

[Stevie-Ray]

When you've never had:

a break-in
a friend or family member murdered
and etc.

it is easy to lull oneself into the false security that comes with such good fortune, or maybe lack of misfortune.Very true, I just had a conversation with a gentleman that reports his house is seldom locked, and he even remarked, "I suppose someday we'll be cleaned out," to which I replied, "Im sure you will." Maybe it's my Detroit upbringing, but both my houses are always locked and usually checked for security. My new home has already had security lighting installed, even though it's in a rather "lax-locking area," and my carrying habits (gun on me or near me at all times) do not waver when I am there, nor does my attention to sounds I don't recognize. It is a wilder area though, so I am up far more than usual with just the new animal sounds. When I move permanently, the new house will also have a good alarm system and security cameras, and luckily, like here, I have pretty good neighbors. I don't intend to be the victim that changes everyone's views on security in the area.

[VinnyT]

Threegun, I understand. My reply more or less was a soapbox post of where society has gone. It's is a shame we need to go to these lengths to protect our loved ones. Some more than others depending on the area of course, but I am completely agree with your security layout.

[TexasJustice7]

QUOTE: Colt1911:

Times (or the area) are pretty bad when you have to carry a gun in the shower ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't actually carry one in the shower, but have two on the rest of the time even at home. I don't want to get my CA 44 Spl wet, so instead, when I go to the shower, I hide all my guns except my stainless steel S&W 38 Spl, which I lay within arms reach of my shower, so should I hear a noise of someone breaking in I can grab it, although normally that is my backup carry. I figure the humidity of the shower, is not going to damage it with it being stainless steel. I hope it want anyway! :)

[Conn. Trooper]

99% of home invasions are drug related.

That being said, a little prevention goes a long way. I lock my doors, have motion lights and a cattle dog with ears the size of pizza boxes.

And my cruiser out front:D

[Busyhands94]

you could stick a stainless handgun close by for when you take showers, it may sound strange but i like to take my .22 Magnum NAA with me when i go to the bathroom when everyone but me is out doing something.

and i like the idea of parking a cruiser out front, that's a pretty cool idea! :D

[IshootThings]

I don't leave my guns laying around because I don't want just anyone to be able to pick them up. They are with me when I'm in bed though. That being said, if it's the middle of the day I have two pitbulls that would make someone think twice about coming into my home uninvited. They are the sweetest dogs until you come into the house unexpected. They've scared the heck out of a friends on a couple of occasions. And I make sure to take the wife to the shooting range with me every once in a while to keep her from getting rusty with the guns and when we have kids, when they are old enough they will be taught about gun safety and how to use them.

[threegun]

Threegun, I understand. My reply more or less was a soapbox post of where society has gone. It's is a shame we need to go to these lengths to protect our loved ones. Some more than others depending on the area of course, but I am completely agree with your security layout.

Gottcha. It is a shame.

[TXGunNut]

At one time the department I was with did security surveys for homes and small businesses. I learned a lot training for and doing these surveys. As mentioned a few places above weapons are a last layer of defense. We taught folks to make their homes unattractive to burglars and difficult to break into. An outer perimeter, strategic lighting, electronic measures, big noisey dogs, reduced cover and upgraded doors and windows are all good measures for reducing the likelihood of a break-in. We would talk about weapons during our surveys but our focus was more on keeping the BG's out of the home. Unless they have a good reason to break into your home they'll go down the street to an easier target.

[FrosSsT]

If 5 armed people broke into my house and I had no time to get to a weapon I would have to comply. Material things are not worth my family getting hurt

[Terminus009]

At home I always have a gun within immediate reach. Always.

[threegun]

If 5 armed people broke into my house and I had no time to get to a weapon I would have to comply. Material things are not worth my family getting hurt

How do you know that simply complying will guarantee safety?

If you put some prevention measures and or barriers in place it would buy you the time to get the weapon and to the best location to offer a solid defense.

[MLeake]

If you want to see another ugly story (not in CT), just look up what happened to Byrd and Melanie Billings, near Pensacola, in front of their children.

This was the case where the .... (I will NOT try go get around the language filter) .... invaders... failed to disable the security cameras, so their entry and egress was all on video.

No drugs involved, or thought to be involved, but the invaders thought the family had money in a safe.

Nice neighborhood, too.

[ripnbst]

If I am watching TV in my family room and 5 armed youngens come crashing through my side door I am in real bad shape. My shotgun and handgun are in the bedroom, as I ASSUME that my house will be broken into at night.

If I am CCW'ing while I am out I am covered but I do not carry within the confines of my home.

My wife is armed when she is home alone with our HD Winchester 1200, but again its in the bedroom. She doesn't walk around with it slung over her back.

I've also got a big dog with a big bark so that helps and my house looks like every other house on my street. No big boat in the driveway or Porsche in the garage here.

[threegun]

If I am watching TV in my family room and 5 armed youngens come crashing through my side door I am in real bad shape. My shotgun and handgun are in the bedroom, as I ASSUME that my house will be broken into at night.


The key is to fortify your entry ways to prevent such an instant entry. Make the five youngens work to get in, buying you precious time to get to upgraded armament. Don't assume anything. That the extra few seconds to put the shotgun next to you if you will be there for an extended period.

[kgpcr]

The question the OP asked was Would a 12ga be enough with 5 knife and gun weilding pricks. I would say yes. after you started shooting and let the air out of one or three of them the rest would scatter like cockroaches. These guys are punks looking for a soft target. When one starts shooting back they are not so brave any more.

[MLeake]

It's always a good idea to go into combat underestimating the enemy, right?

So let's just assume the bad guys will always run away...

Realistically, they usually will. The question is, what happens when they don't?

How many shells does the 12ga in question hold? Does it have a spare ammo holder of some type on it? Have you practiced speed reloads with it? Reloads on the move, while taking cover?

Do you have a backup handgun to go with it, in case you run out of ammo, or don't have the shotgun handy when the intruders enter?

In my case, the answer would be five rounds, no spare holder but six spare shells near the gun, and I'm not as fast with the shotgun as I should be, so a multiple BG encounter could go south pretty quickly. I'd rather have my AR.

YMMV.

[threegun]

The question the OP asked was Would a 12ga be enough with 5 knife and gun weilding pricks.

Short answer yes.

[MLeake]

threegun, I disagree. Short answer is "maybe," for the reasons I listed above.

[MLeake]

This article says nothing about drugs. Items reported stolen were a computer, cash, and a gun.

The two things I find noteworthy here:

1) The intruders were waiting in the garage for the family to return, and ambushed them in the garage. Note to those with garages: Have a good locking system on your garage, not just the house; scan for people who might be waiting outside your garage, before you use your garage door opener; scan for people who might be inside the garage, before you actually pull in.

2) They tortured the wife to get the husband's compliance.

http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/south-fulton-couple-tied-1172999.html

[threegun]

I said yes because it is possible and the long answer would have included the "maybe's" you had already posted.

My lightest capacity shotgun holds 7 plus 1. I have trained with it pretty good although not to competitive levels on the reloads.

My threegun shotgun, a Remington 1100 with 10 shot extension, would be even better, if the space to wield it were available. With this I am extremely confident that only molly maid would be needed when the shooting stopped. Its surprising how fast so many targets can be engaged and eliminated. Even for my relatively small frame.

[MLeake]

threegun, in your case, sounds like a short answer of "yes" is probably accurate.

I think most of the people who practice shooting fast multiples do so with double barrels, though I'm sure there are many who do so with pumps or autos.

And, of course, there are threegunners.

But I assume that any of those people wouldn't have asked if a shotgun would do the trick. I also assume that anybody who asks the question, is probably not proficient at fast multiples or reloading.

[threegun]

threegun, in your case, sounds like a short answer of "yes" is probably accurate.

I think most of the people who practice shooting fast multiples do so with double barrels, though I'm sure there are many who do so with pumps or autos.

And, of course, there are threegunners.

But I assume that any of those people wouldn't have asked if a shotgun would do the trick. I also assume that anybody who asks the question, is probably not proficient at fast multiples or reloading.

Ah the good side of threegun, getting to shoot multiple targets and reloading AFAP.

[bikerbill]

Prevention has to be the key; strong locks and other methods of keeping the BG's out ... how is a woman in the shower supposed to reach a shotgun and fight off five armed men? Even sitting with the shotty in your lap poses a number of serious issues ...

[bjones870]

This happened to me, so I know how she/ they felt. I was cutting grass one day s a couple of summers ago, I was 16 at the time I believe. I had just come back inside from cutting the grass, using the back door. I hopped in the shower, as I had plans later that night. Well, half way through my shower, my dog came upstairs and started scratching on the door. This IMMEDIATELY made me know for a fact something was wrong. As she literally NEVER came upstairs. So I hopped out of the shower quick, fast, and in a hurry, and looked down my stairs. And there was the BG, a black guy walking in front of the bottom of the stairs. So I grabbed my dads 12 G and called the police. Long story short, he left, they arrived, and of course, never found him or anything. You feel VERY vulnerable, and everyone who isn't a family member wants to kill you. Just a heads up, a dog will ALWAYS be in my house from now on. I also have an alarm system that beeps anytime anyone opens a door or window. And let's just say that if a BG gets in my house, then the pitbull is the least of his problems. The alarm system isn't as good as the dog. But hey, why not have both?