Deer hunting with an AR 223/5.56 practical?

[BigShep85]

I have always been a bow hunter and never much with a rifle but I have been on the fence of getting a n ew rifle and giving it a shot my two choices are an AR 223/5.56 or a remington 700 .308 for deer hunting. Rifle hunting has always seemed so easy to me I have been debating on getting an AR 223/5.56 with 1 in 9 twist and taking it hunting this year it seems to me this would hold a bit more of a challenge but I am not really sure if it would be practical or all of the downfalls it holds. any advice or suggestions?
Or does anybody hunt with an AR of this type?

[nathaniel]

Yup I sure do, I use a DPMS AP4 with a nikon prostaff 3-9x40. I have two brothers that also use AR's. My oldest brother got a nice buck with his (the picture is floating around on this forum). If you keep it within a practical range and can shoot it well and its legal in your state then you shouldnt have any problems using it for deer.

[SauerJackson]

No, not a great choice. There is alot of good bullet types out there, and you can kill a deer with one. But the last time I did that, I "missed" several big-uns because that little tiny bullet is so easily deflected. The Next year I went back out with my Tikka .308 n tagged a buck and doe that season from the same spots! I love my AR, but I'm never doing that again, at least not with the 5.56 upper......

[m17s_guy]

^ +1

also, consider the weight factor. Most "Black" rifles weigh in a couple pounds more than their bolt action brothers. and lugging the extra 2 pounds around the woods can get tiresome.

[BIG P]

YES I hunt with a Stag 20'' ar 15 556/223 and have for awhile now, the 1in9 works well up to about 70gr.in mine some may differ.bucks here go from 90 to 200lbs,doe's from 75 to 150.As long you stay inside 150 yards it does pretty well have taken guite a few & had to track a few. good shoot placement is a must.But most AR'S shoot real well if you do your part.They're different to hunt with but I enjoy it.:D

[arizona98tj]

I consider the 5.56 a varmint cartridge. I have a couple of AR-15s in 5.56 and several big game rifles in .308 Win, .30-06, and .303. The right tool for the right job. Others can disagree.

[swsurgeon]

I find that I am most effective hunting all big game (elk, pigs, deer for me) with the same rifle. Although the 5.56 may kill deer OK, I would prefer something a bit heavier for elk and large hogs. So if you like the familiarity of hunting with one rifle, and you may want to go after something larger than deer, I'd prefer the .308.

[Palmetto-Pride]

Yes as others have said it can be done. It just makes shot placement more crucial than if you were using a bigger caliber.

I love how bow hunters always try and act like rifle hunting is so easy. Ever tried taking one at 300+yds (don't give me that crap "your not a real hunter if you can't get them to come in bow range" BLAH BLAH BLAH

I like taking them from the other side of a bean field, but that's just me.

[madcratebuilder]

#1 is unethical and #2 it's illegal in many states.

[Art Eatman]

The R&D in bullet technology has made .22 centerfires far more useful on deer-size animals than even ten years back. Even so, a user should exercise restraint as to distance and should be much more careful about the type of shot which is taken.

As example, I have killed some two-dozen bucks with my .243. I use the 85-grain Sierra HPBT, which is rather light for the cartridge and the bullet disintegrates rapidly. I limit myself to neck shots and cross-body heart/lung shots; no angling shots. And, generally, I figure on 200 yards or less--which is the most common sighting, anyway.

[mattamuskeet]

If you deer hunt with a .223, you are handicapping yourself; your weapon becomes the limiting factor similar to handgun, bow, and black powder hunting. You should plan for a minimum of 1000 ft/lbs of energy at the maximum range that you want to shoot. The .223 does have 1000 ft/lbs at 100 yards, but not much past that.

[BIGR]

Let’s see here. Will the .223 kill a deer? Yes, with the right bullet placement and at the right distance, if the shooter does his part. Will the .308 do a better job time and time again? You dang right, with less room for error. I have an AR in 6.8 SPC, but never have had the desire to try it on deer. One of my bolt guns from 7MM-08 to 300 WIN MAG is the firearm of choice in the thick woods where I hunt. If a hunter only owned an AR in .223 and wanted to try it, then it would be different. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against anyone using that caliber or an AR for deer. Different strokes for different folks, we have a choice in this country on many things and sometimes that just makes decisions harder. :)

[Falcon642]

What sub-species of deer are you hunting?

Mule deer - HELL NO! Muleys are too big, and shots of 300 yds + are the norm, not the exception. I use a .270 in a 5 shot Browning semi auto.

White-tailed deer - maybe, definitely not ideal. Some areas where I hunt whiteys, you are shooting at an animal that weighs less than 200 lbs, and a shot that is 50 yards or less. Other areas, I'm shooting at a 250 lb whitey at 200 yrs or more. I use a .243 in a 5 shot Browning semi auto.

Black-tailed deer - you betcha. I live in Washington State and we have black-tailed deer. A big black tailed, soaking wet, might weigh 140 lbs, and often they are in thick cover = shorter shots. I've taken a few black tails with my AR-15, I actually prefer it because I think my .243 is overkill.

[Hog Buster]

As has already been stated here a .223 will kill a deer, even a 22LR will kill a deer, but shot placement is critical with both. A neighbor of mine always hunted with an AR, was an excellent shot and killed many deer with it. He was always careful to get just the right shot in the right place, unlike many who just shoot for deer. In his hands an AR was fine for deer hunting, but not so with others.

Over the years I’ve killed deer with everything from a 22LR to 45/70, but never used an AR, bolts and levers have always been my choice. Caliber choice for me has always been .243, .270 or 30/06, all adequate for the job at hand.

[603Country]

I sure wouldn't recommend using the 223 for deer, though the Texas deer are a good bit smaller than the Louisiana deer that I used to hunt. But, if somebody is bound and determined to do it, use the 60 grain Nosler Partition or the Barnes bullet, or maybe the 65 gr Sierra Gameking (which I've used on some decent sized pigs). Either one of those should exit the deer and do the job for you, though you might need to do a little blood trailing. But if you're a poor shot and one of those guys that can't track a bleeding elephant through a snowdrift, get a bigger gun.

[Doc Intrepid]

In my state it is illegal to hunt deer with a .223 caliber.

While it certainly can be done, a larger caliber is likely to be more effective over a wider variety of field circumstances.

My hunting buddy uses an AR-15 rifle chambered for 6.8mm, which IS legal in my state. It is an effective deer rifle, my only critique is that 6.8mm ammunition is not easily found for sale in our area. If you need some, it may be difficult to find it quickly.

On the whole, the .308 is likely to be a better hunting round, simply because it is effective across a wider range of species (black bear, elk, mountain lion, etc.), ranges, and field conditions (quartering shots, etc.). A bolt action .308 is a pretty common rifle type, and ammunition is easily found nearly anywhere. (That said, I hunt with an AR rifle chambered for .308. It is a bit heavier than a bolt gun, but I consider the weight difference to be worth the other benefits that my rifle provides.)

Your mileage may vary.

Best,

Doc

[jmr40]

A 223 softpoint will kill any deer in North America within reasonable ranges, (200 or less for me). Yes you do have limitations, but there is absolutely nothing unethical about using a 223 with proper ammo. It is certainly a better killer on deer than a bow. And I'm a bow hunter as well.

Most "Black" rifles weigh in a couple pounds more than their bolt action brothers. and lugging the extra 2 pounds around the woods can get tiresome.
Two of the 3 AR's I own are lightweights that will shoot Sub MOA to over 200 yards. The scoped rifle weighs 7 1/4 lbs. Less than most scoped bolt rifles. The unscoped rifle is 6.5 lbs. About 1/2 lb lighter than a Winchester 30-30.

I rarely use my AR's for hunting because most of the places where I hunt offer the opportunities for bear as well. If I were in a deer only location I'd have no problems using it.

[Jo6pak]

The 5.56mm is not for me when it comes to deer sized game. Yes, I know it can and has been done, but IMO there are better choices for the same weight in a rifle. My sporterized Swedish Mauser weighs only about 7.5 pounds

[dahermit]

During on Michigan bow season, my brother "took a dive" from about 30 feet up when the branch he was standing on broke. He injured his arm and broke ribs. He found when rifle season came, that he was still in too much pain to use his 30-06 for deer. So he positioned himself next to a blow-down log with the early AR-15 across it and proceeded to take a white tail shooting one handed. If a .223 can be expected to kill a human, it can be expected to kill deer. It just needs to used with the precision that all deer hunting should have applied. What is the problem? I have used my 6mm Remington and .257 Roberts in such a precise manner (only shoot through the ribs where the vital organs are (heart, liver, lungs), and you will not have to worry about "that little extra advantage", a poor shot gives a larger caliber.

[SRH78]

It is certainly a better killer on deer than a bow.^^^We will have to agree to disagree on this.


Will a 223 kill a deer? Yes it will, so will a 22, and you can beat on stuff with a wrench but that doesn't make it the right tool for the job.

As for comparing the use cartridges on people and deer, would you hunt deer with a 380 or a 32? A weapon for use on people has a different set of priorities than one used for hunting. I can only speak for myself but I see it as my responsibilty to put an animal down quickly with one shot. Without question, a 308 does that much better than a 223.

Here is a scenario for you. A big buck steps out at 200 yards right as it is getting dark and he is quartering towards you. Which rifle do you want?

[buck460XVR]

Rifle hunting has always seemed so easy to me

Rifle hunting for deer is easy. One reason I only hunt whitetails anymore with bow, handguns or carbines in handgun calibers. Even then it's not that difficult. If .223 is legal in your state, and you are aware of it's(and your) limitations, I say go for it. After all, in today's USA, where nobody needs to hunt to survive, it's all about the hunt and not the kill. Since the .223 is a very accurate round in most platforms, as long as you do your part, correct bullet placement should not be a problem.


I love how bow hunters always try and act like rifle hunting is so easy. Ever tried taking one at 300+yds

300 yard shots on a target as big as a deer can be easily made with most any modern $400 gun with a $75 scope mounted on top. Not the challenge it used to be when all that was available was grandpa's .32 Winnie special or your Uncle's Model '97 filled with paper hulled slugs. Back in the days when I felt I NEEDED to make a kill in order to prove to others I was a viable hunter, I carried an old M1917 that rarely, if ever missed. Nowadays, I really have nuttin' to prove to others and coming home empty just means I get another chance to go back out. If one prefers to use a high powered rifle for deer, I have no problem. It's their hunt and their kill. But compared to even today's high tech compound bows, deer hunting with a modern high powered rifle is relatively easy.

[BIG P]

IMO there are alot more deer lost every year do to hunters/shooters not doing there part, than there is lost because the gun or size of bullet did'nt do its job.
I go to the cooler every year a few times on opening week to see what comes in,I'm sure you would be surprized about the number of deer that are either Gut shot,hind quater,front leg,back strap blown out.Just flat ass poor shooting.Then its go home for these guys get on the net & bad mouth the gun and round.Its easy to blame the equipment when its really poor hunting/shooting skills.Man thats hard to own up to aint it ?:D

[jmr40]

It is certainly a better killer on deer than a bow.

^^^We will have to agree to disagree on this.


Will a 223 kill a deer? Yes it will, so will a 22, and you can beat on stuff with a wrench but that doesn't make it the right tool for the job.

As for comparing the use cartridges on people and deer, would you hunt deer with a 380 or a 32? A weapon for use on people has a different set of priorities than one used for hunting. I can only speak for myself but I see it as my responsibilty to put an animal down quickly with one shot. Without question, a 308 does that much better than a 223.

Here is a scenario for you. A big buck steps out at 200 yards right as it is getting dark and he is quartering towards you. Which rifle do you want?



Every weapon has it's limitations. My bow, handguns, 308, even my 7mm Rem mag. I know those limitations and accept them when I walk into the woods with the weapon I've chosen for that day's hunt. I wouldn't attempt a 300 yard shot with the bow, handgun or a 223. With the 308 or 7 mag yes. A 223 with proper ammo is a MUCH better deer killer at 200 yards than any bow at 50 yards. I know guys who have sold off all their rifles and hunt exclusively with longbows. They have made a choice to place severe limitations on themselves. That is not for me, but I respect their choice.

The only folks who claim it won't relibly kill deer are those who haven't used one. Those who have seen the results have no reservations about using one. It wouldn't be my 1st choice in most cases either, but you better believe the round, with the right ammo will put any deer down, and quick with a good hit. A miss is a miss with anything and the end result is the same

[C0untZer0]

I wonder how many people take their tacticool AR out deer hunting, wound an animal, spend a few hours trying to track it but lose it and then come here to post about their colossal failure?

[jimbob86]

#1 is unethical and #2 it's illegal in many states.

If it is legal where you hunt, and you insist on doing it, use a good controlled expansion bullet, pushed as fast as you can push it and maintain accuracy, and kep the ranges short.

Some people do hunt with .223 successfully ..... and talk it up on the internet, thereby encouraging every idjit with an M-4gery and some surplus ammo think they have a great deer rifle ......

[tahunua001]

not a complete comparison but I have a DPMS sportical w/badger ordnance handguard and a rem 700 in 243. I haven't been able to hunt very much these last few years but the 700 is accurate and reliable. I shot my first deer with it at 300 yards(granted it was a tiny little doe but stil,l a target thats smaller target requires better accuracy. my brother who whined and moaned the entire time he was building my AR15 stole it while I was off "accelerating my life" and **** himself a 250 pound white tail at a full run@ 250 yards. took one shot to stop him and one shot to finish the job and both bullets where less than 4 inches apart. for a buck that size at that range, I'd say that 223 is more than potent enough to handle a role as a deer gun as long as you use the right type of ammo. and both of these guns have nikon prostaff 3x9s on them(the ar has the BDC reticule)

[warbirdlover]

It is illegal in Wisconsin (must be bigger then .22 cal.) and not a good choice anyway on a 200+ lb. bruiser buck. It would kill small doe easily enough.

[barnetmill]

The .223 is used by a lot of hunters in the south. If you can shoot accurately you are not handicapping yourself with that caliber if you use the proper projectiles. Use properly designed projectiles and hit the dear in the vitals. For many years cartridges like the 32-20, 38-40, 44-40 with black powder loads killed a lot of deer in the wooded areas of this country. It is a very common question as to what the minimum caliber is for dear. I would not use the .223 for elk or very large deer, even if it was legal, but at 50-100 yards I would have no problem with using one on a southeastern white tail deer. Remember a well placed shot from a .223 beats a poorly placed shot from what ever the in vogue super duper smoke pole of the day is that is being touted by the gun rags. The advantage of using your combat rifle for hunting should be obvious in that the man that uses one gun for all of his shooting ends up being a more skillful with that rifle. Me I am switching over the Kalashnikov system for everything that I do, that is shotgun, .308 rifle, and AK fighting rifle.

By the way too many people depend too much on ballistics tables.

[jmr40]

and not a good choice anyway on a 200+ lb. bruiser buck. It would kill small doe easily enough.

Not directed to anyone in particular, but to all the naysayers. How many of you have actually seen how a big deer (or any other deer) looks after being hit with a 223. I 've seen plenty, know lots of guys who hunt with them as well as the 22 Hornet. If they are hit in the vitals at reasonable ranges they are dead before they hit the ground. A 300 mag dosen't kill any quicker, just makes it possible at longer ranges. You are basing your opinions on pure speculation.

I will make 1 concession and understand why some states don't want 223 rounds to be legal. It should only be used at fairly short ranges. Used at an appropriate range it will kill just as well as other short range weapons such as handguns and bows. With a bow, or handgun you typically run out of range before energy becomes a factor. If you are close enough to hit a deer, you are close enough to kill one. The 2 biggest problems with 223 are idiots using FMJ ammo and guys trying to shoot at deer too far away. A 223 will shoot flat enough to easily hit a deer well beyond the range it has the power to cleanly kill one. Used with good judgement it is as good a deer killer as you can get.

[stolivar]

the 223 is more powerful than any of the handgun rounds used. But nobody ever complains about them.

This is a stupid argument.



steve

[SRH78]

the 223 is more powerful than any of the handgun rounds used. But nobody ever complains about them.

This is a stupid argument.



steve Oh really? You might want to seriously rethink that statement.

[SRH78]

Not directed to anyone in particular, but to all the naysayers. How many of you have actually seen how a big deer (or any other deer) looks after being hit with a 223.Not a 223 but a 22-250.


As for the earlier comment
Those who have seen the results have no reservations about using one.This simply isn't true. Not as a rule, anyway. Many people do have faith in the the 223 but I have also known some who have hunted with it and definitely have reservations about doing so again.



edit: I am not saying the 223 won't work but the 308 is a much better choice.

[BIG P]

I agree with JMR 40 & I am a nannyslayer & have seen a lot of deer taken with a 223 AR -bolt gun alike.I've taken around 40 myself with an AR 223
my gun has never had a FMJ in it and I have never lost a deer with it.
I take mostly doe's with it but I did shoot two pretty nice 8 pointers last
year one 155lb one 185lb both were less than 100yrds.neck shots neither
moved 6' from where they were shot.The 223 aint my first choice If I'm hunting big deer 270win is my go to.But it dont kill any faster or deader than the 223. One more thing I never lost meat with a 223 like I have the big boomers. IMO the 223 is not a begginers gun.:D


Have taken deer with a 45ACP,its legal in GA.:eek::eek:

[jimbob86]

but at 50-100 yards I would have no problem with using one on a southeastern white tail deer.

There the rub.....

3 things here: How big are southeastern deer?

.... and how fast are you launching that .223 bullet? How heavy is it?

Past 100 yards, a 55 grain bullet out of a 16 inch barrel is dropping into the realm of personal defense pistol ammo, in terms of energy levels....... while more conventional cartrides are still packing 3-4x that.

For many years cartridges like the 32-20, 38-40, 44-40 with black powder loads killed a lot of deer in the wooded areas of this country.

....and none of those were launching a tiny bullet at magnum level velocities ..... a recipe for bullet failure and a big shallow wound ...... no necessarily immediately fatal.

Sure, with long barrels and careful loading of heavy controlled expansion bullets, it can be done ...... but for every guy that does that, there will be a bunch that hear that as "Ah kin take my m4gery out deer huntin', Cletus! and proceed to wound and lose a lot of animals, when the 30/30 in their truck would have done the job right the first time.

Like the AR and want to hunt with it? They come in more substantial calibers, you know?

[Lawyer Daggit]

I have taken a lot of wild pig and fallow deer with the 222- in the case of the pig these have usually stumbled upon while varminting and the fallow during culls.

Penetration is a serious issue unless you are using handloads that use heavier or harder bullets. It is this point that renders BS comments that the .556 is used on men so it should be fine on deer as the .556 using long fmj bullets, and in any event there are issues regarding the stopping power of those bullets that is today deliberate- the argument that a wounded man ties up three on the battle field etc.

If you must shoot larger game with the 222 or 223 and your marksmanship is up to it, I suggest you buy a box of the following and see which works best in your gun.

Barnes 52 gn X bullet
Nosler 60 gn partition
Trophy bonded 53 gn.

[Edward429451]

If you live in a state where they have 40 pound Deer then it might be practical. I wouldn't try it in Colorado where the Mule Deer can go several hundred pounds, then I would say no.

I've heard the tales of Elk being taken with 22 Mag headshots too, but it doesn't make it practical, unless you're a poacher I suppose. There are more practical calibers than 223 that don't even begin to recoil a lot.

[Gunplummer]

I have used a .22 HP a few times over the years and using a .223 would not bother me at all. The only difference I see with heavier bullets in the deer woods is a bullet like a .270 will blow a deer leg clean off and a heavier bullet like a .35 REM will leave it hanging by some skin so the deer can run around with it for a while. When the deer is hit right with any bullet, it just lays there dead.

[603Country]

Gunplummer mentioned two of my favorite deer cartridges - the 270 and the 35 Remington. My deer shooting approach (for hundreds of deer) rarely varies. I shoot them in the lungs. Both the 270 and the 35 exit the deer, and in the case that they don't drop on the spot, they rarely run far. Following my grandfather's good advice, I wait 10 minutes or so, then go to the point of impact and blood trail if necessary. My percent recovery is in the high 90's. That brings me to the 223 and my 220 Swift and the problem I have in shooting deer with them. The bullet often does not exit the deer, and it's the exit side that gives me the good blood trail. So...there's not usually a good blood trail, which often makes them a good bit harder to find. If they happen to run 100 yards or more your chances of finding the deer get a lot smaller. I'm a very good and relentless tracker (can track a lizard across a dry rock), but it helps to have a good track to follow. So...yes, you can shoot and kill deer with a 223, but it's marginal. It does get a bit better if you use the Nosler Partition or one of the Barnes bullets, which should exit the animal. My most recent 223 big pig shot was perfectly placed, but there was no blood trail. Light was fading. I found him by a few light tracks and some overturned leaves, which took me to a heavily traveled game trail. He was about 100 yards down the trail. The first drop of blood was about 50 yards from where he was shot. So use the 223 if you must, or if it's the only gun you have, or you just need to prove us wrong, but it's not an ideal deer cartridge.

[tahunua001]

Past 100 yards, a 55 grain bullet out of a 16 inch barrel is dropping into the realm of personal defense pistol ammo, in terms of energy levels....... while more conventional cartrides are still packing 3-4x that.

all these arguements are moot. you can kill a 125 pound whitetail with a 22 pistol if you wanted to. is it humane? no. is it effective? yes.

my 16" AR has killed full grown whitetail bucks at 250 yards with 60gr federal vshoks.

you dont need that much power to kill a deer. I know guys that insist that their 300 win mag is "the best deer rifle ever made". are they wrong? not necessarily but there is such thing as overkill.

[PRONE2]

In the past 3 years the Mrs. and I have taken 5 whitetails and 4 hogs with the AR in 223. Never had to track any on them more than 10 yards using sivler bear 62gr soft points. I'm SURE that it is not for everybody, but it works well for us.

[GeauxTide]

Art said it best.

[M.O.A.]

ha ha ha you all are so funny if he wants to use a 223 so be it it will work and if someone else wants to use a 416 rem mag that will work to

[thallub]

Shot placement is everything. i track wounded elk, deer and, sometimes hogs, for other hunters: Last season i located 17 deer and elk for other hunters. Over half the animals i recover are shot in the guts. Hunters tell vivid stories about how they doubled lunged that big buck and it just ran off. Very few guys tell me straight out that the animal is gutshot.

i deer hunt almost exclusively with a muzzleloader; so i can't attest to the effectiveness of the .223 on deer. However, in my muzzleloader experience deer are easier to kill than wild hogs.

i kill a lot of hogs, even big hogs, using a 5.56mm/.223. i've never lost a hog that was shot with a .223 round. For many years i used the military ball M193 round on hogs. At ranges of 150 yards or less when fired from a 16" barrel; the military ball bullet penetrates about 5", yaws 90 degrees and fragments, often shredding the heart, lungs and diaphragm.

About one year ago i started using the excellent Barnes 53 Grain TSX bullet on hogs. Put that bullet where it is supposed to go and it will bring down the largest wild hog you ever saw. Shoot a hog in the guts with a .35 Whelen and the animal will run off.

[chadstrickland]

A 22lr will kill deer and hogs grave yard dead ( just rumor not from personal experience :) )...and a 5.56 is more than enough to kill deer. I for one have never had a single deer run off after I shoot them ( about 10 yards is the most )

[Gunplummer]

Funny you should mention a .416 caliber. I found a loaded .416 Rigby round on state game lands in West Virginia. The first day of deer you hear some pretty strange rifle shots down there.

[M.O.A.]

same with opening day in Ky. i know ive heard fullautos going off

[Art Eatman]

Looks like .223 is well-covered, and now we're drifting into Rigbys and full auto...