8mm surplus ammo help

[8mm]

i need to know what country made this ammo and how hot the loads are.

[jonnyc]

The 21 RPR is Romanian, and I've found it, especially in its later steel case version, on the lighter side. The other is Turkish, and it is a bit more stout. I'm not sure which bullet weight you have in the Turkish, but some have found it rather hot.

[SurplusShooter]

Looks like turk ammo and the packs a hell of a punch. It is ONLY meant to be shot from a bolt action not a semi or full auto it will crack the receiver and break other parts.

[rdf.hack]

I read about 2-3 people who shoot turk ammo out of SAFN-49s and experienced no issues. But, do you knwo where i can find some?

[8mm]

you can fing 8m turk on gun brocker type 8mm under rifle ammo second page. ( 8mm 8x571950 turkish copper jacket) thats what title line says.

[Mike Irwin]

Turkish military surplus ammo would typically have some form of Arabic script, a half-moon and star reminiscent of what is on the Turkish flag, or both.

As Jonny said, that's likely Romanian, but it's definitely not Turkish. Or, if it is, it's a form of headstamp that is totally new for them.

[44 AMP]

And clean your gun accordingly. If non-corrosive, no harm done, just a little more work. But most surplus ammo from eastern nations is corrosive primed.

The US ended corrosive priming of its military ammo beginning in the 1950s, but other nations didn't until much, much later, and some may still be making new ammo with corrosive priming. Assume any foreign surplus ammo to be corrosive, act accordingly, and you won't damage your gun.

If you don't already know, corrosive priming leaves behind chemical salts from the priming compound, that will absorb and trap water against the steel, causing rapid rust. They can be cleaned away with water, and then followed by the normal cleaning routine, all will be well.

[8mm]

i was going to use the romanian rounds in my gew 88 but it has a .318 bore have to buy another 8 mm mauser to use them sluged it lastnight thanks for all the info.

[gyvel]

Turkish military surplus ammo would typically have some form of Arabic script, a half-moon and star reminiscent of what is on the Turkish flag, or both.

I'm not certain about that; The Turks use the Roman alphabet.

[JHansenAK47]

I'm not certain about that; The Turks use the Roman alphabet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_alphabet
They were using arabic script until they switched over to roman script in the late 1920s and early 1930s.

[tater134]

The ammo on the right is definitely Turkish surplus. Ive got several ammo cans full of it and as some of the other posts stated it is loaded hot. I believe it is loaded with 154gr bullets if I remember correctly.

[jonnyc]

I'm confused about the confusion here. There are two different rounds pictured. The one on the left (21RPR) is 100% Romanian. The one on the right (FS...1945...) is 100% Turkish. Both can have two different bullet weights, pull and weigh to be sure. No other discussion is really relevant.

[8mm]

i just wanted to know the countries because i was going to shot it out of a gew 88 witch has a .318 bore and the bullets are .323 cant use them in my rifle. just wanted to know country.

[Mike Irwin]

Damn, I looked at the one on the right and for some reason saw a commercial headstamp, not a military one, and thought we were talking about the one on the left. Sigh.

But, as I said, Turkish ammo would have either Arabic script and/or a moon and star, and there's a Crescent Moon and Star on the headstamp. It's hard to see in that picture, but it's on the bottom beside the T.

According to Munhall and White, the headstamp is actually read with the TC and the moon and star at the top.

TC means Trkiye Cumhuriyet, or Turkish Republic.

The FS is an abbreviation for Fisek, the Turkish word for bullet. Apparently this is to differentiate the cartridges from blanks.

[ksstargazer]

jonnyc nailed it - Romanian on the left and Turkish on the right. I would not shoot Turkish out of a GEW 88. The Turkish is definitely hot and should only be shot in a Model 98 or newer that is in good condition.

[8mm]

the gun has a .318 bore i wouldent shoot neather through it. because the bullets are problly .321-.323.

[F. Guffey]

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo.aspx

http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx

http://www.turkmauser.com/serialNumbers.aspx

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx

F. Guffey

[8mm]

my gew 88 has the turkish stamp but its still .318 they say it should be .323 i sluged it 3 times i know the barrel on the bottom has a z stamp the lands measure .318-.319.

[F. Guffey]

I am sure your correct, but, Model #1887 was 9.5mm60R, the #1890 was 7.65mm53 Belgium, the #1893 was 7.65mm53 Belgium, the #1903 was 7.65mm53 Belgium Mauser/Argentine, then they became 8mm57 Mauser starting in 1933.

Both the 8mm57 and 7.65mm53 had two diameters, both were supposed to have a .311 bore, one had a land depth of .318, the other was .323, then? It is believed the .318 barrel was throated to have a forcing cone to accommodate the new and improved larger .323 bullet and then there are those that say "And that is all that is required....".

There may not be an answer to every question and I have no problem with saying "I DO NOT KNOW", When I slug a barrel the strong get weak and the weak pass out, the most unlikely measurement I come across is the .311 bore, most common bores are closer to .316.

F. Guffey

[8mm]

it takes 8x57 ammo but the older ones i was told 8x57j the bullet was .318 it has the s stamp on the reciever and has the turkish moon also and has a z on the bottom of the barrel.

[adrians]

is the "Z" in a circle ?,, if so it means your barrel is a czeck barrel and is prolly as you say .318 .
if your reciever has the "s" stamp it just means that the chamber was opened slightly to accept the .323 spitzer bullet which will allow for the 8x57js round ,your barrel in my opinion would be safer to shoot the 8x57j size and stay away from military turk ammo its hot stuff and the gew88 wasn't really meant to take those kind of pressures.
i cast for my 88 and keep to under 1800 fps and below38,000 psi.
YMMV. have a good one .:D

[8mm]

i put the whole rounfd in the chamber went in with no effort ill have to look to see if it has the circle.

[F. Guffey]

http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx

Again, I am sure you are correct, I do not know when your rifle became a Turkish rifle, your rifle was a Gew 88 and then became a Turkish Mauser in the last response. First because I do not have to, I do not shoot 8mm57 with .323 diameter bullets in an old Mauser with a .311/.318 barrel, back to the fix-it with the throat reamer, the barrel/receiver? was stamped with an 'S'.

http://milsurpshooter.net/topic/25457/GEW88-S-marking-318-vs-321-vs-323

Scroll to Doc AV

F. Guffey

[8mm]

so what the other bord is telling me is that i could shoot a.321-.323. bullet out of the gun because of the modification adrians i dident see the circle around the z its on the barrel on the top

what is the diameter of the s type round it was modified for it so you should be able to fire it then.

[adrians]

the "s' simply stands for spitzer , the bullet dia would be circa .322---.323..
the reason i say i don't shoot 8js ammo in my gews is 98's have a third locking lug on the bolt the gew88 doesn't and the 98's also have venting holes in the bolt to ensure the shooter isn't hurt from gases from a case rupture,the 88 bolts are not as sophisticated, there is also the split bridge affair on the gew .
when it all boils down to it in theory you can shoot .323 in your 88 ,how does that saying go?,,,,, "if it chambers easilly enough it's good to go" or something like that ,anyway i choose not to.
if you pull a bullet from a commercial say win / rem 8mm and mic it you will find it measures closer to .321, for fear by makers of people shooting their ammo in the 88's (it's a lawer thing!).
all my 88 have no "s" on the reciever so they are not reamed to accept the .323( although they probably will ).
the circle z was a czech stamp and most of the rifles with this stamp were sent to south america, and the bore dia on these rifles can run as tight as .316.
when the turks got hold of your 88 they re-chambered it for the spitzer and it probably shot .323 all it.s service life.
me i'm a wuss so i cast up to a .321 bullet and load light at around 1200-1400 fps ( no need for a g/c at these vel either).
sorry for wandering a bit but i tend to do that alot.:D

[8mm]

i got some romanian rounds from 55 i was told i could shot them because they are not hot loads. so i could shot us commercial throught it if i have to.

[adrians]

romanian ammo (i also have some of that ) is not as hot as the turk fodder you should be o.k with that ,but remember to clean real good when done cos the mil-surp ammo more often than not uses berdan primers which are corrosive so a good clean with water to nuetralize the residue is in order,.
yes, commercial ammo is purposely downloaded for just this kind of situation it will be o.k to shoot in your gew88 (lower pressure than european ammo and the use of a .321 dia pill),
like i mentioned it;s a lawyer thing.
have a great day and shoot forward :D;):D

[F. Guffey]

You have a rifle that is 130 years old, your rifle could be a cobbled together rifle that was updated for use with the local guard 105 years ago, you are contemplating shooting ammo that is hot for a rifle in good shape by today's standard???? Me? I would not shoot that rifle if it was the only rifle I had.

Because a collector/shooter/reloader was told by forms and his smith a .318 Mauser head space gage was not available, I made a set for him, the gages went from .000 to + .024 over a full length/minimum length sized case, he had two 88s, one with .024 thousands head space and another at .018 head space, the .024 he hung on the wall and then wanted to know how to load for the .018, after checking all of his Mausers for head space, he was surprised that so many were .008 or less, one gage fit both chambers.

F. Guffey

[8mm]

where do you get the head space guage everything on it is tight nothing is worn or loose. how hurt do you get if you blow a case. what is the point of the cleaning rod and the rifle i got has regular bluing and redish bluing why is this.

[8mm]

what does the letter (i) mean under the serial number.

[rdf.hack]

I got myself 140 rounds of '43 Turkish 8MM on strippers in ammo packs. Very clean looking ammo, can't wait to shoot it. Comparing the head stamps between it and yours, you definitely have Turkish 8MM.

8mm,

You should get a VZ-24 or Yugo Mauser from JG Sales, they're beater rifles but will be a more pleasant shooter, and can shoot all matter of ammo, the 88 commission is a wall hanger. Those VZs and Yugos are so common that you can customize it into a very nice shooter, for a cheap price.

Also, I implore you to use capitalization and grammar, sometimes I can't even understand you.

[8mm]

imv beenlooking at them vz 24's ill chech it out. i shot the gewehr 1888 over the weekend love it.