Q fer the reloader folks...

[hogdogs]

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f68/mec-jr-12-ga-reloader-90547/
In this thread, he is asked about "bar and bushing sizes"...

He replies... "says 12ga .0, does not look to be cut for bushings"

So do I want to own this little Jr.?

Brent

[zippy13]

Brent, there are several versions of MEC bars:

The first ones had two holes, one determined the powder charge, the other the shot. The bars are marked to indicate the hole sizes. The bar of my first MEC delivered around 18-grs of Red Dot which worked for 12-ga target loads for many years.
The next version of the MEC bars enlarged the powder hole to accept the familiar interchangeable bushings. The shot charge was still fixed. Later versions added an elastic buffer (for steel shot) in the shot hole.

An original bar shouldn't be a deal breaker.

[SauerGrapes]

Your looking at an old reloader. I have one of the 600 jr reloaders from the 60's. The old charge bars were set up to use Red Dot and other powders of the time.
You can simply buy the new modern charge bars from Mec or a supplier and it will fit right in the old machine. Mec even sells replacement parts for the old 600jr. I still use mine.
Charge bar #'s are the 302 sreies for the single stage Mecs. 30278 for 7\8oz, 302100 for 1oz and 302118 for 1 1\8oz of shot.
If I'm not mistaken, the old "O" bar was 3 drams of Red Dot and 1 1\8 oz of shot.

[TheKlawMan]

They even sell charge bars where I shoot, which is Prado Shooting Park in Chino, and the only guns store I checked also sold them.

I jusst bought a used MEC Sizemaster and I think I will be using a universal charge bar. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=746153

[BigJimP]

I'd say pass on it Brent ....

you can buy a brand new one for $ 138 .... and add your own sheet of plywood ....

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,198.html

[hogdogs]

For the price of a new one, I would add some "starboard" plastic for my base. I can get "drops" from marine industry in 3/4 for 10 bucks for a 24X24 or bigger.:D

I dropped some cash I earned in the bank account so maybe the "Father's Day Fairy" will leave that purdy Mossberg 930 next to my bed so I can wake up to breakfast in bed and see the gun... OKAY!!! Breakfast in bed is askin' a bit much but some fine eatin' biscuits and gravy are in order.

Brent

[BigJimP]

sounds good to me ....

[TheKlawMan]

Go for it Brent. I paid about half the new cost of an MEC reloader for a used one, and after loading a box I have found only it needs a $3 part. That price Jim quoted you is a fair price for a new one (A local gun store quoted me $200 for one, and they are also reasonable on shippping if you want new.)

[.45 COLT]

The "0" bar was the standard bar shipped on new MEC presses from the Super 250 on until the newer-style bars were introduced. It dropped 1 1/8 ounces of shot and - 18.5 Grains of Red Dot (3DE), 19 Grains of Green Dot (3 DE), 21 Grains of PB (2 3/4 DE) and severel other powders that are no longer available.

$100 seems a little high. You might be able to do a lot better if you look on Craigslist.

DC

[TheKlawMan]

Brent. I didn't even see how much they were asking for that one.

[TheKlawMan]

Brent. I didn't even see how much they were asking for that one. You will almost certainly need a new charge bar with it and at least one powder bushing. I wouldn't go over $50 for it.

Most Jr.s come with a charge bar that drops 1 1/8 oz of shot and powder per bushings. Some use an adjustable charge bar made in Canada that I believe costs about $20. They can be bought on e-bay. Some of the guys like it and some do not. I have one but am not famililiar with it enough to know if I like it.

A nice optional feature is the EZ Primer feed.

You can get a nice deal on one off of Ebay, but the shipping can kill the deal, which is a reason to check Craig's list. Someone here, perhaps it was one ounce suggested I look on it and I found one the next day an hour's drive from me.

[hogdogs]

I will likely buy a new unit... I am of the sort who likes to know the history of an important item. Such as firearms... I quit looking at used guns many years ago.

With a new unit, I can simply post up what I am lookin' at, let the experienced guys look over the info and they will be able to verify... or not... that the item is infact what I am needing.

Brent

[BigJimP]

We'll be more than happy to help you spend your money ....

[hogdogs]

Ya'll love to spend OPM more than your own I am sure!:D
Wait 'til I blame the new gun and reloading addiction on my TFL buds!
Brent

[BigJimP]

Sure ....blame Dave and Zippy ...and maybe OneOunce .../ surely not me ...:cool:

[mwar410]

I found that sometimes used reloaders are better than the new ones, they are broken in, and have the querks out.

[olddrum1]

For a general idea and something to look at.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/426
They will send you a catalog I believe.

[markj]

Brent, I have one of them mecs, they make a universal charge bar that lets you adjust the amount of charge and shot which is what I have in mine cost was like 30.00 way way back.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=MEC+reloader&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1259&bih=852&wrapid=tlif130825922812210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17965036069971039027&sa=X&ei=oXP6TfP5MMLX0QHhjZ3WAw&ved=0CF0Q8wIwBA#

You can get a real good progressive for 268 this is how I would go, the mec jr is a PIA. To do high volumn go wit ha progressive, you will like it a lot.

[TheKlawMan]

Brent, Blame BigJim. The one thing these characters tried to teach me long ago, and they were balls on right, is the gun isn't the big expense. Its the ammunition and target fees.

So going with a new machine isn't a bad idea. If I valued the time it took to fix a few things on the used one, actually the time it took to figure out what in need of replacement parts were causing me grief, I would have done better getting a new one. (After playing with mine for a couple of days I found it needed two parts. I got them from from a local ammo supply distributor, who stocks all the MEC parts, for just over $7 and now it should work as slick as a new machine.)

The other very true law of shotgun shooting they imparted is that the wife, if they are not shooters, don't understand that you are saving money by buying supplies in quantity. It is a losing argument that recommends to me the virtues of cash purchases.

I prudently failed to mention, when I got home tonight, how I saved $20 on 20 rounds of trap by stocking up on them, as opposed to buying tokens as needed.

I like the part about spending OPM, but not spending their money on them but on me.

Re the adjustable universal charge bar, they currently run about $40. I think I like them, but if you change loads frequently powder bushings may be better. I read an interesting old post by BJP about reaming out bushings to get precise drops.

[zippy13]

One caveat about the universal charge bar, you'll want a scale. For years I relied on the LEE and MEC charts for dippers and bushings. I've since learned that the charts are typically conservative. The universal bars (I've got 4 MECs with them) come with a chart, too; but, you'll be much happier fine tuning your loads with a scale. One reason is that shoot drops differently with respect to its size. MEC has/had a bar specifically for Skeet competitors that dropped 1-1/8 oz of #9s -- the standard 1-1/8 oz bar didn't. :eek:

[zippy13]

I read an interesting old post by BJP about reaming out bushings to get precise drops.
Most of us who've been loading with MECs have some bumped bushings that have a plus sign, or two, scratched on them. I'm happy to say, those days are long behind me.

[TheKlawMan]

Hi, Zippy. I am still not sure if I like the Universal Bar. It seems fine, until it drops a powder load .3 grains over the setting.

As to conservative settings, I couldn't understand why when I got it the settings were so high above the recipe the seller had been using. After messing with it for a ridiculous amount of time, I read on line that powder drops were accurate or as much as a half a grain light.

It took me a while to get used to the Lee Safety Powder Scale that I bought. but it is fairly accurate (I think).

I am not sure but think the problem with occasional heavy drops (just one was 1.3 grains heavy. all the rest have been within .3 grains of the lightgest drop. eg. If a recipe calls for 15 grains, I set it so that most drops are between 14.0 and 16.0.

I just realized that the "Pro Check" was bent from use and it occassionally bumped against what is called the "Wad Guide Bracket". That bump may have thrown things off. I will see as I got a new "Pro Check" for <$6. If you recall your old MEC Jr, the Pro Check is that black piece bolted to the charge bar.

I looked at the MEC bushings chart and until I read an old post of BigJim's, concerning what you call "bumping", I wondered how you got an accurate drop if the bushing wasn't quite the right size.

[BigJimP]

Ok, I'll take the blame ....;) ...
"Trust me, I'm here to help ...:rolleyes:" ....
"and the check is in the mail ...:rolleyes:"

Personally I like the bushings over the universal charge bars / although I have not tried them in the last 20 yrs or so ...I thought there were prone to coming loose and kind of "fussy" ...and the bushings are just easy and straight forward to use.

I've also installed a new collar that holds the charge bar ...with a hole in it / covered by a plastic disc (cover) ...so to change the powder bushing all you have to do is unscrew the cover and drop a new bushing in. Quick and easy...although once you have it set / unless you're always changing powders - or different hulls or something - its no big deal...

[zippy13]

TheKlawMan,
My friend, are you using a powder baffle and the proper washer with your universal charge bar?
Sorry, it's been about 20-years since I used a 600 Jr -- "Pro check" sounds familiar but I don't recall what it does.

[TheKlawMan]

Zippy, our friend. You may have nailed the problem. The pro check thing wasn't the problem, but I am glad I replaced it as it was bent.

The brass washer isn't there! I am not clear on how this may be causing undue pressure on the rubber seal. If the diameter of the brass washer is small enough that the baffle's feed neck, which is under spring pressure, seals against the washer and not the rubber seal, that would release an inordinate amount of pressure on the seal.

The instructions for installing the washer are at http://multiscalecharge.com/products_powderbaffle.php

The istallation instructions are to "Remove Rubber-Grommet from powder opening, just above the Bar and place our Brass Washer, with the sharp edge facing down, on top of Bar. Put back the Rubber-Grommet on top of Brass Washer.
• Screw Powder Baffle all the way in.
• Screw Powder bottle onto Powder Baffle.


I wonder if a common brass washer from Home Depot will fit. If not I can order on from Canada.

[jaguarxk120]

The ProCheck keeps the wad guide in position when dropping the powder.

When the bar is slid to the left dropping the powder charge the ProCheck keeps the wad guide in position for the seating of the wad.

Other wise you have to hold or push the wad guide down for wad seating.

After the wad is seated, moving the bar to the right(dropping shot) allows the wad guide to move up and out of the way so the shell can go to the crimping station.

[TheKlawMan]

I couldn't find a washer at HD. I will just order one. Meanwhile, it is working pretty well with the powder baffle removed. Maybe I should have taken BigJims advice and gotten a new reloader, but by the time all is said and done I should know the machine inside out.

[TheKlawMan]

Jaguar. What you say makes sense. I noticed that sometime my wad guide doesn't move to well. Perhaps. I will play with it and see if it is binding for any reason. Am I correct that the Pro Check is supposed to be tightened down?

[TheKlawMan]

Just finished another box and things are smoothing out. The pro check is working as Jaguar said it. N Ow I am all loaded for Father's Day at the trap field with my Wife, Son, and Daughter. This should be . . . different.

[oneounceload]

Nice to see some more folks falling under the reloading spell.............Soon your houses will be over run with cases of wads, sleeves of primers and buckets of empty hulls.................:D

[TheKlawMan]

Oneounceload is Evil:D

[zippy13]

I can't understand it -- my wife doesn't think the pantry is a good place for bags of hulls and empty shot shell boxes. :rolleyes:

[oneounceload]

I made the mistake, ONCE, in my youth of washing hulls in the washing machine.........to ANYone contemplating this action, stop now unless you want a divorce

[zippy13]

1-oz,
You know you're an addict when your range hulls go directly into net laundry bags. I've only know one shooter who did that, and she acted like the rest of us were crazy for loading nasty, dirty hulls.
Back in the day, you did bag your laundered hulls, didn't you?

[TheKlawMan]

For shame, oneounceload. Even I know that dirty hulls is what the China cycle of the dishwasher is for. What I still can't figure is whether or not to add rinse aid.

[oneounceload]

They're even louder in the damn dryer..............mesh bag or not........THAT was a "momma lesson" I don't want to repeat...........:D

[TheKlawMan]

That is why you use the dish washer and set it on heated dry or so I have been told. The trick is they have to be stacked so they stay open end down. Depending on the size of your upper rack that means you need around 900 hulls if you are going to pack them in tight. That or the George Foreman shotsheel hull stacking rack available in handy 50 and 100 hull sizes. When not in use to shine up your hulls it makes a mean fish fry rack.

[.45 COLT]

Not a recommended procedure for Federal Champion hulls. :rolleyes:

DC

[jaguarxk120]

Any shell that has a paper base wad do not wash, only the ALL plastic shells can be washed.

[TheKlawMan]

I thought this stuff about washing hulls in the wife's washing machine was in jest. Tell me it was a joke.

[BigJimP]

It should be a joke ...but who knows....

The washer you are looking for / as far as I know /is unique to MEC because it has some dimples in one side ....and depending on the age of the loader - the dimples either go up or down ( you'll have to look at your directions).

Ask around at your club ...but most of us that use MEC loaders have extra brass washers ...and they'll give you one / let you replace it when you get your order. If a retailer has some MEC parts / they might have the washers where they have the charge bars and bushings, etc ...or anybody that works on MEC loaders in your area will have them.

[TheKlawMan]

Actually, BigJim, the particular washer isn't an MEC part but from the Canadian company that sells the adjustable charge bars and powder baffles. The part is on $1 but the shippping is $9. But I agree that I shouldn't just use any washer but get the right one. I might just buy a new powder baffle if one is in stock at Prado or Phillips Wholesale for, guess what, $10.00. Meanwhile, the powder drops are working well without the baffle, which I believe may not be as important in Southern California as it may be in a humid climate.

Also, this particular washer has a down and an up side.

[oneounceload]

If you get a powder baffle, (and you should), get the red plastic PC one, NOT the zinc-cast one

I would NEVER use momma's dishwasher for washing hulls, but the washing machine did a decent job - but that dryer!..might as well thrown in a bucket of coins and marbles with her cat inside........:D

[BigJimP]

OneOunce --- you lead a dangerous life buddy ....

I forgot you're using that "multi adjustable nasty charge bar thing...." :eek: ...and you're right, I don't know what goes in that thing ....

OneOunce and I disagree on the powder baffle too ...I've quit using them..because I think they were giving me bad drops ( which makes no sense / because they ought to work / concept is sound ) ...but I pulled the one I had installed on an old 12ga Grabber recently - when it kept giving me bad powder drops with Clays. I went back to the brass washer and the grommet ...and it was 100% on target...

I've also taken the powder baffles off of my Mec hydraulic presses too ...

[TheKlawMan]

Oneounce. The powder baffle I have is the cast zinc one from Multi Scale Charge and I don't see where they even sell a plastic one. What is the story on the plastic ones and why do you prefer them?

As for the brass washer, there is one listed on the MEC parts list for the Grabber, but none is depicted on the parts blowup. However, its number suggest it is for use with the charge bottles. For now I will live without the baffle until I figure out if it does me any good.

[BigJimP]

There is an old and a new model on the "Grabber" ....and I don't know about the new model ....but on the old one ....it called for a rubber grommet on both powder and shot sides ...and a brass washer ( nipples up ) on the powder side ...but only for "fine powders" ....and on powders, like Clays, I'm not sure you need the brass washer under the grommet.

[oneounceload]

Take that zinc POS and make a fishing weight out of it.

THIS is the one you want:

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,1374.html

they work - and when you get into a certain rhythm with your press, you'll get your drops to stay consistent

[TheKlawMan]

Thanks, oneounce. I ordered one from that outfit, which BigJIm also likes to do business with, along with a few other llittle MEC items.

I almost ordered the brass washers BigJim mentioned, but the fishing weight won't need it. Actually if it was lead it could ge melted down for shot.

[TheKlawMan]

I received the red plastic baffle and experimented to see if it is helpful. I think it may so the trick, even if my drops are still not the best.

To try to reduce variables, I did this with no shot in the bottle and the same grommets that came with the Sizemaster when I got it used. This is with no brass powder washer.

I dropped powder into 10 previously fired AA compressed hulls and measured the powder drops in the order that they were made. I got readings of 15.3, 15.2, 15.4, 14.8, 15.4, 15.3, 15.3, 15.4, 15.2, and 15.1. Excluding the 14.8 grain outlier, which I subscribe to not pushing the charge bar far enough to the left, I get an average drop of 15.2889 which I will call a 15.3.

What is interesting is the charge bar had been set for a 15.9 grain drop, with no baffle.

I don't know what is going on, but if I can adjust the UCB to drop 15.9 grains +/- .1 grain I will be a happy camper; especially if I get my technique down to avoid that outlier short drop.

[BigJimP]

I'd turn that "multi - charge bar" into a fishing weight too ...and go back to a charge bar with bushings in it !!

Your range is 15.1 to 15.4 ....so its not terrible .../ but its not great either ! .... but I sure don't like that 14.8 in there ....

I think there is a screw in the face of that charge bar - that limits its travel to the left ...( you have to make sure it goes all the way over !! ) or at least there is one on the charge bars that use bushings ...and the amount of travel to the left is easily adjusted.

A tip: take the powder bottle off the press. Look down inside the charge bar --- as you cycle the bar to the left ( and see, at what point, the cavity that picks up the powder is fully exposed - so it fills properly ). As little as 1/4" of travel in the bar ....may make a big difference.

[oneounceload]

Paert of getting the MEC Jr. to be consistent - whether with bushings or a charge bar is to get into a certain rhythm; I push the bar hard to each side - it helps settle powder and shot into the openings, it helps it there is a small piece of shot or some flakes from gumming it up, and it makes sure I move the bar completely to each side.

Once you figure out what works best for you, you'll find that your drops are consistent in both shot and powder.

I can get my Jr. to drop even better than my progressive because I nudge it that way.

When I push the bar from side to side, I do not use the lever in the middle, but I place finger tip on the end of the UCB - it seems to fit in the recess on the dial just right- I can then flick it as mentioned

[zippy13]

I'd turn that "multi - charge bar" into a fishing weight too ...and go back to a charge bar with bushings in it !!I suppose, next you'll be telling us that you've converted your Dillon 650 to use powder bushings. :rolleyes:

[TheKlawMan]

I am still tinkering with the thing and it seems to be getting better after doing two things.

It seemed that with the red plastic baffle screwed down tight that there was too much pressure on the top of the charge bar. I backed off on it just a bit.

I am not sure what screw BigJimP was talking about. The UCB is slightly different for a progressive or a standalone MEC. Anyway, I losened the screw on the front of the charge bar, the one attaching the "ProCheck" to the charge bar, slid the bar to the left and tightened it back down. It may have made a difference.


I will know better when I put some shot in the bottle. For now I am out of shot.

[zippy13]

If I remember correctly, the charge bars (MEC and Universal) have a center screw on the front that limits their travel. And, on progressive loaders there's an end screw that attaches the return spring anchor.

[TheKlawMan]

You remember correctly, Zippy. The instructions from the manufacturer of the UCB say to use their screw for it will allow for greater movement to the left, but the kind of screw doesn't make a difference with the single station reloaders, since the diameter of the base of the Pro Check and not the screw determines the issue. Still, it is possible by tightening the bolt affixing the Pro Check to the bar that I somehow limited the bars travel. Regardless, I is sliding smooth and free, expecially after I cleaned it up with acetone and 600 grit sandpaper.

BTW, the instructions printed on the bag that the plastic baffle cam in say to remove any washers. Mine didn't have a brass washer and I don't read that to mean the rubber grommet, although someone on shotgunworld said to remove the washer and grommet.

I think tomorrow is a Prado day.

[oneounceload]

Yep, take out the black rubber washer as well the red baffle tube is spring-loaded where it meets the charge bar

[BigJimP]

Nope, I love the powder measure on the Dillon 650 ....its just the mult-charge bar for the Mec ( not made by MEC by the way ) that I hate... but I pride myself on my "flexibility" and "open mindedness"....:D