Walther P99 questions

[BlueTrain]

I am confused about the different models of the Walther P99, specifically the differences between the AS model and the QA model.

The problem is, according to various and suspect sources, the trigger pull weight on the AS (anti-stress) model is lighter, apparently about half, that of the QA (quick-action) model. Given that the whole point of the AS model is to presumably make one less likely to accidentally discharge the gun in a stressfull situation, one would think the AS model would have the heavier trigger pull.

I do realize the AS model has a so-called double-action first shot mode and that there is a de-cocker on the slide, yet as I understand it, it still has the same trigger pull. The QA model has what is essentially a Glock form of trigger. I also understand that the Glock is theoretically available with various trigger pull weights, or at least two, though I doubt you would have any choice once inside a gun shop.

Anyone care to comment on the differences between the two models? I also know there is a DAO model but that doesn't seem to be common. I'd also hate to pass up a chance to get one of those two models since there is yet another new model out and the old will pass away before you know it.

[Fargazer]

An AS model approximates a DA/SA trigger action. When shooting an AS model, in order it has:

a long heavy initial trigger pull when decocked (8.5 pounds)
a long light trigger pull when slide is fully racked (4.5 pounds)
a short light trigger pull on all subsequent shots (4.5 pounds)

I own only the AS (in both P99 and P99c), so I can't speak personally for the QA action. Most people I see on forums prefer the AS because of the light follow up shot trigger pull. I've seen posts from people who prefer the QA pull, but they tend to be uncommon.

As for any new models coming out, it sounds like you are referring to the P99 RAD. This is a variant made for the Polish military (and perhaps police). It has a constant trigger pull (QA or DAO style) with some tweaks to the controls and grip.

Complete guess on my part, but I don't think the P99 RAD is going to actually replace either the QA or AS. I think it's more of "we've got to make this additional variation for these guys, lets see if it will sell well elsewhere". Walther has contracts with several police and military organizations world wide, particularly with the QA model; I would think you'd see the RAD only replace the QA if the other organizations would move to the new model, and I personally kind of doubt that. It's one thing to introduce a new model to a new customer; it's another to introduce a new model to a customer who is satisfied with the current model.

[Fishbed77]

Just to clarify - the P99 RAD will be sold as the PPQ in the US, and is supposedly replacing the P99 QA (which is no longer in Walther America's catolog).

The P99 AS will continue to be sold.

In my opinion, the P99AS is the model you want. The amazing AS trigger is what makes the P99 so special in the first place. Buttery smooth trigger with a crisp break and very short reset.

The P99 QA and PPQ are more like Glocks with better ergonomics.

[Fargazer]

Good to know about the QA replacement Fishbed; thanks :)

[Idahoser]

the AS trigger does not only do what is listed in your first response. In addition to what that post lists, it also does this:

I'm assuming you carry it de-cocked as I do. There is a long 'hard' trigger pull for the first shot, just like any D/A revolver or semiauto.
Once the pistol has cycled that first shot, the trigger is released just a hair to set it for the next shot with a short light pull.
OR
the trigger can be released all the way forward to make the next shot a long, light pull. THAT is the entirety of the "Anti Stress" feature. You no longer have a 1911 style 'hair' trigger, you must move it back (although under light pressure) a long pull. Less likely to happen by accident.
If you need multiple quick shots, simply release only the first 'hair' and pull the next one.
But if there's a break in the shooting, release it all the way forward. It's still cocked, but there's a long deliberate pull for another shot.

I don't care about the other actions, this is the one to get.

[T1gger]

AS would be the way to go. The QA, and soon the PPQ, have DAO Glock-type triggers. The AS is a whole different beast as mentioned before. Between the FNP-9 SAO and the P99 AS that I own, I don't think a polymer pistol trigger gets any better, and subsequently, accuracy is outstanding.

[DAdams]

Here is a good source of P99 information.

Walther Forum

http://www.waltherforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6

Here is the Walther P99 Online Adobe Owners Manual which will address comparative operational and trigger questions.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/Walther/upload/other/P99.pdf

I have a P99AS in .40. Most comfortable pistol I own.

[balance]

I have been a fan of the P99 for years, and one of the many great features of this pistol, is the trigger. The P99 AS operates no differently than any other DA/SA pistol if you chamber a round and decock it. The first shot will be long and heavy, and all subsequent shots will be short and light, just like a Sig, Beretta, etc. What the P99 offers that these pistols don't, is the AS mode, where you can carry the pistol cocked with as light a pull as the SA portion, but with as long of a pull as the DA portion. But you should know, that you never need to use the AS function if you don't want too, if you decock after racking the slide, it will function like any other DA/SA pistol out there.

I have never used the AS function, because the P99 has the lightest stock DA pull I have ever felt on a DA/SA pistol, which makes it very easy to make an accurate first DA shot, and the SA pull and extremely short trigger reset, are the best I have felt on a factory pistol. Everyone should try one.

[BlueTrain]

What you are saying doesn't make sense to me and that's what is confusing to me.

I have read the owner's manual and the sales brochures and even handled a P99 QA. I've only seen the one model in a store, which is the real problem. I was under the impression that the whole point of the AS version was the that you carried it de-cocked and used it DA first shot, SA (sort of) for the other shots. Then you de-cocked it when you were finished if there were rounds left. But the confusing point was the trigger pull that seemed to be lighter, from what I gather, than the QA version.

Likewise, I had not seen any reference elsewhere to the two forms of trigger release (all the way or just barely enough). Believe me, if I'm in a hurry, there's no way I could manage to release it only to the "first hair," especially with live ammo.

At this point it's a toss up between the two. All I have to do is rake up the money.

[Idahoser]

there's no way I could manage to release it only to the "first hair," especially with live ammo.yes you could. It's the most natural thing in the world, it's only difficult to describe.

Think about any standard DA/SA semiauto- Walther PPK, Beretta, S&W, anything. First shot, long hard pull. Second shot, teensy release, short easy pull. The only thing different on the AS trigger is what happens after any shot, if you release it all the way forward, the trigger goes along with your finger- There is practically no force bringing the trigger all the way forward. It isn't 'fighting' you to go forward, it just follows your finger if you allow it forward. Then there's that same trek in reverse for a followon shot, pull long and easy back to "Colt" style single-action short/easy pull.

If at any point you decide you're finished shooting, release the trigger all the way forward, decock and reholster. You carry decocked.

[balance]

I would strongly suggest that you try out both before deciding on the QA. If the P99 only came in the QA configuration, I would not be as much of a fan.

The DA trigger pull of the AS model will be longer and heavier than the Glock-like trigger of the QA, and most people would probably consider that safer. Where does it say the QA trigger is heavier than the DA portion of the AS model?

[balance]

Idahoser, the trigger will not follow yor finger all the way forward after firing a shot and letting your finger off the trigger, it will function just like any other DA/SA pistol where the trigger will be more in the rearward position when in SA, just like a Beretta, Sig etc. The only way to get the trigger to AS mode, is to rack the slide without decocking.

It really is hard to explain since there is nothing else like it out there.

[Idahoser]

Well, I have two and you're incorrect if we're discussing the Anti Stress trigger.

That is, unless they've changed it. The earlier version with fine pitched serrations on the rear of the slide is what I have.

Maybe your gun is too dirty to allow it to go forward, but that's how it works, that's what Anti Stress MEANS.

[Fargazer]

You are not the first to have trouble distinguishing between the QA (Quick Action) and AS (Anti Stress) triggers. There are a lot of places and threads that try to define the nuances of the Anti Stress trigger; for your purposes, I would recommend thinking of it as a DA/SA style of trigger on a striker fired pistol.

Is that completely accurate? Nope.
Is it accurate enough? Yup. In print, more details are just going to be confusing.

For a much more accurate description, review this presentation on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyOZN_44Xd4); it's a lot easier to describe in a video where you can see it in action.

The trigger pull weight seems to be hanging you up. Supposedly the DA pull on the Anti Stress trigger is slightly heavier than the Quick Action trigger. Precise numbers are going to vary, but using the Walther site as a reference,

the DA Anti Stress trigger pull is 11 pounds (other sources put it more like 8.5)
the Quick Action trigger pull is 8 pounds at all times
the SA Anti Stress trigger pull is 5 pounds (other sources put it more like 4.5)

That's where you may be getting how the Anti Stress trigger is lighter than the Quick Action trigger - depends if you compare the DA or the SA Anti Stress trigger pull to the Quick Action.

Some other references that may be useful:

http://www.gunfaqs.org/P99FAQ/VII/2.html
http://www.waltherforums.com/showthread.php?t=15306

Hope the video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyOZN_44Xd4) helps!

[balance]

I have the earlier 1st gen model as well.

There are two places the trigger will rest when there is no pressure being applied to it. The DA trigger position is where the trigger rests when in DA or AS mode. The SA trigger position is where the trigger will rest after firing a shot and releasing your finger off of the trigger.

This is how every P99 AS pistol I have ever handled has worked. I wouldn't be surprised if there was just a misunderstanding since this trigger is hard to explain.

[Idahoser]

It is possible that the point he's referring to in the video as "SA" is where it goes to when you release all the way forward. It definitely moves some distance forward, but perhaps it is to that 'halfway' point rather than all the way forward where it would be in DA, uncocked.

The video lacks showing what happens when you shoot the gun. Holding the trigger in while the slide is racked. That simulates what would happen when firing. I wish he'd done that.

If you do that on your own pistol, you'll see you can release just that initial "hair" to be ready for the next shot as any single action would, but if instead you choose to release the trigger follows your finger forward, either to that "halfway" point or all the way I can't say right now.

Maybe I can make a video tonight, or find a properly done one, I'll look.

Found a useful one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqpk5XureAs
this is not all that good, but you can see what happens when you hold down the trigger and rack the slide, simulating firing a round. Also he shows the QA, which ought to be outlawed from what I see here. WHY would you put a 'decocker' on it that completely disables the gun until it's racked again?!

The SA trigger position is where the trigger will rest after firing a shot and releasing your finger off of the trigger. that's not like any SA I ever shot, like a Colt for example; there's almost no perceptible movement to fire single action. This video what he calls SA is not SA, not like any other pistol.

The point of AS would be to allow you to STOP shooting after the first round, and leave the gun in a status that doesn't lend itself readily to AD. Yes? This puts you in what the guy in the video is calling "SA", but I disagree. That should be AS.

Here's another one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iim7n2cUCY

[balance]

Well, I don't believe we've helped you to understand BlueTrain, but good luck.:D

No but really, it takes a minute to understand that extra trigger function of this pistol with the pistol in your hands, and keep in mind that if you treat this pistol like any other DA/SA pistol and decock after chambering a round, it will function like any DA/SA Sig, Beretta, S&W, etc. It just gives you another option that you do not need to use.

[balance]

Walther considers the AS trigger as the trigger fully forward (as it is in DA mode), but with a lighter pull since the striker is fully cocked.

What you are considering the AS portion of the trigger is what Walther considers the SA portion of the trigger, and the excess trigger travel you are feeling is considered "trigger slack" which is present on every DA/SA pistol I have ever felt.

The Colt 1911 is a SAO gun, not DA/SA like the Walther, but every 1911 I have handled has had a little bit of slack as well.

[Idahoser]

Okay, I'll buy that. My apologies. We do all agree it's great, anyway.

As a side note I learned how to tell a .40 from a 9mm on sight, the 9mm has a "step down" in the width of the front of the slide, while the .40 is consistent width for the entire slide. That may have been obvious to everybody else but I only ever saw a .40 for a long time so didn't see that until I watched a Bond film. I thought it was a bad prop gun, come to find out the real 9mm's have that.

Also, the mag release works best when you use your trigger finger (and/or middle finger). Trying to work it with your thumb is awkward.

One of the best features for a lefty is the slide release is easy to work with the trigger finger.

I never try to decock with the shooting hand, I do that with the other hand.

What the P99 offers that these pistols don't, is the AS mode, where you can carry the pistol cocked with as light a pull as the SA portion,this is where my confusion comes from, I think. You (and Walther, apparently) consider this a carry mode, and I can't imagine anybody wanting to do that. I don't see how that's any sort of "anti stress" at all.

found another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CODccz_Wqr0
he also calls the 'half cock' trigger setting the AS, so maybe somebody else told me that, I don't know where i got it from. Where Anti Stress made sense to me was after shooting and without decocking you would get some distance that you'd have to move the trigger to shoot again, without being heavy... I still like the idea even if I had the wrong name for it.

[balance]

:D We're in agreement about the whole "Anti-Stress" mode. I think it was just a left-over trigger mode necessary in making a striker-fired pistol in DA/SA. I have owned my P99 for years and have never carried or used the pistol in AS mode.

This really is a great pistol. It was the first pistol to come with replaceable backstraps, the grip was designed by an Italian Olympic pistol grip designer, it has the best stock DA and SA trigger on any DA/SA pistol I have ever tried, it has the best trigger reset on any plastic pistol (and most metal ones), the top of the slide is angled inwards to help get fast acquisition of the sights, and after 4k mixed rounds through mine over the years, it has never jammed.

I never understood why this pistol didn't take off.

[DAdams]

Here is an outstanding P99 Review.

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/9149-walther-p99-review.html

[DAdams]

From the manual of operation:

3.3 Firing the P99 DAO, P99 QA, and P99 AS
3.3.1 General
• Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and your finger off the trigger and
outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
• How a handgun is gripped affects recoil and trigger control. Always ensure that
you maintain a firm grip and proper alignment of the pistol. The design of the P99
frame offers a high degree of control permitting the shooter to obtain an elevated
grip closer to the pistol’s bore axis.
• With a firm grip, allow your finger to be placed squarely across the face of the
trigger. Squeeze the trigger fully to the rear.
As the trigger is drawn fully to the rear, the striker is released, striking the cartridge
primer. Upon firing, the slide moves rearward thereby extracting and ejecting the
spent cartridge case. The slide then returns forward feeding the next cartridge
from the magazine into the chamber.
• After firing you must allow the trigger to move fully forward before you can fire the
next shot. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you
are ready to fire again.
This sequence can be repeated until the last round has been fired.
• Once the last round has been fired, the magazine follower exerts upward pressure
on the slide stop causing it to engage the slide and to hold it in the “open” position.
CAUTION: Wear adequate and proper hearing protection and safety glasses
specified for firearm use.
Upon firing the pistol or releasing the slide from its stop, the slide moves with
significant force and speed. To avoid injury, be attentive to the moving slide so
as to not make contact with any part of your body.
3.3.2 Firing the P99 DAO
Firing is done as described above. After firing you must allow the trigger to move fully
forward before you can fire the next shot. Failure to do so will prevent the lockwork
from fully cycling, and will prevent the firing of the next shot.
This sequence can be repeated until the last round has been fired. Trigger pull and
trigger travel is the same from the first to the last round.
If a cartridge fails to fire, the trigger may be squeezed again to fire the round.
3.3.3 Firing the P99 QA
Firing is done as described in section 3.3.1 “General”. After firing you must allow the
trigger to move forward before you can fire the next shot. Failure to do so will prevent
the lockwork from fully cycling, and will prevent the firing of the next shot.
This sequence can be repeated until the last round has been fired. Trigger pull and
trigger travel is the same from the first to the last round.
ENGLISH
12
3.3.4 Firing the P99 AS
With the striker de-cocked, the first round will be fired in Double Action mode and
subsequent shots will be fired in Single Action mode until you de-cock the P99 AS
again.
3.3.4.1 P99 AS, Double Action Trigger
• Load the pistol and de-cock it. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Keep
your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
CAUTION: The striker will re-cock if the slide is moved to the rear by about
10 mm. The trigger will remain in its forward-most position
(see Anti-Stress-Trigger below).
• While holding the grip firmly, squeeze the trigger fully to the rear to fire.
• Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to
fire again.
The subsequent shots will be fired with traditional Single Action trigger until the
P99 AS pistol is reset to Double Action by pressing the decocker.
3.3.4.2 P99 AS, Single Action Trigger
Traditional Single Action Trigger
After firing the first round all subsequent rounds will be fired with a traditional Single
Action trigger, until the pistol is reset to Double Action by pressing the decocker.
Anti-Stress Trigger
It is called “Anti-Stress” because the trigger pull of the P99 AS is the same length for
the first shot, regardless of whether it is double-action or single-action. The Anti-
Stress trigger functions as a sort of two-stage trigger, and lessens the possibility of a
stress-induced unintentional discharge.
Unlike the operation when shooting - when the trigger does not move all the way
forward between shots - any time the slide is retracted by hand the trigger moves to
its forward-most position. The combination of the trigger in the forward-most position
with the striker cocked is the main feature of the Anti-Stress trigger.
a) Shifting to Anti-Stress trigger mode by manually reloading
The Anti-Stress mode is activated each time the pistol is reloaded manually while the
finger is off the trigger.
b) Shifting to Anti-Stress trigger mode by manually cocking
The Anti-Stress mode is also activated each time the pistol is cocked manually while
the finger is off the trigger:
Hold the de-cocked pistol with your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger
guard, point the muzzle in a safe direction. Pull back the slide by about 10 mm and
then move it back to its forward position. This puts the pistol in Anti-Stress mode
(trigger in the forward-most position and the striker cocked).
If the slide gets pulled to the rear more than 20 mm, a cartridge in the chamber
is ejected.
To fire a shot after such manual cocking, squeeze the trigger. When the trigger is
released, subsequent rounds will be fired using the traditional Single Action trigger
with a shorter trigger pull, until the P99 AS pistol gets reset to Double Action by
pressing the decocker.
ENGLISH
13
3.4

[Jim Watson]

A friend has a 99AS, he values it for its comfortable grip and high reliability.

I shot it the other day and was most impressed by its tough trigger pull. I don't know if it is typical but it was heavy, both DA and SA as compared to my Sig Sauer and CZ.
S&W Plastic M&P is my choice in polymer.

[T1gger]

A friend has a 99AS, he values it for its comfortable grip and high reliability.

I shot it the other day and was most impressed by its tough trigger pull. I don't know if it is typical but it was heavy, both DA and SA as compared to my Sig Sauer and CZ.
S&W Plastic M&P is my choice in polymer.

That's crazy, because I think the AS/SA pull on the P99 is next to nothing.

[BlueTrain]

Boy, I started something here. Thanks for all the replies. I believe Fargazer hits the nail on the head when he stated the QA trigger pull is 8 pounds all the time, while the AS single action (after the first shot) is only 5 pounds. That simply sound like the opposite of what it should be or maybe I merely miss the point that Walther had in mind. Of course, once you have one version, any features the other versions have become less important.

I have had several DA/SA pistols, starting with a S&W Model 39. The two pistols I have now, a Ruger and a Walther, are both DA/SA. I've also owned one Glock and a Browning BDM, which gave you a choice of DA/SA or DA only. I've also fired a Kahr. I've not found any of the DA triggers to be stiff, unmanagable or at all difficult, possibly because I've also owned a few older Colt DA revolvers.

Part of the problem here is that only one gun shop within the distance I'm willing to go actually has a P99 and it's a QA version. On trying it out (but not shooting), the trigger seemed quite light, especially relative to the two pistols I have at the moment. I guess I could live with that but I don't think I'll have a chance to actually try out any others, unless I look further afield and I'm more patient than I usually am. I'm interested in 9mm, too, by the way, mainly because I have a stock of 9mm ammunition and I'd rather not add yet another caliber. If I were willing to do that, I'd be looking for a .357 Sig and Walther doesn't do that caliber.

[Idahoser]

do you suppose if you just bought one, and decided you didn't like it, that you'd have any trouble getting your money back out of it? It's not a Taurus after all.

Use your trigger and/or middle finger to release the mag. It's not meant to be a thumb release.

[balance]

BlueTrain, the P99 is a DA/SA pistol and it has a long and heavy first shot, and every shot after that in SA will be shorter and lighter, just like your S&W, Walther, your Ruger, or any other DA/SA pistol. I don't understand what you mean when you say "That simply sounds like the opposite of what it should be..."

Jim Watson, I am surprised to hear you say that as it is the first time I've heard someone call the trigger on the P99 heavy. I don't have a pull guage to give numbers, but the DA on my P99 feels MUCH lighter than the DA on the Beretta 90-two, it felt lighter than the DA on my CZ-85, it felt lighter than the DA on my FN FNX, it feels lighter than the DA on the P30, or any other TDA pistol that I've shot. I always thought that the P99 could get away with having lighter trigger pulls because it was striker-fired, and did not have a hammer or mainspring to deal with.

[gc70]

Below are the trigger specifications for the AS and QA models from my P99 Gen1 brochure:

P99 Model____QA____AS____AS____AS
Operation____DA____DA____AS____SA
Weight/lb___8.5___9.0___4.5___4.5
Travel/mm_____7____14____14_____5

The current brochure shows that the trigger travel for the AS in SA mode has been increased to 8mm.

The Gen1 brochure says the following about the AS in Anti-Stress mode (emphasis added): "The objective is to prevent unintentional firing by reflex in situations of extreme stress."

The unique aspect of the Anti-Stress trigger is that it has enough travel that you can be surprised and reflexively pull the trigger some without the gun firing. But if you want to fire the gun, you really don't notice the longer trigger travel before reaching a light break. The graphs in my brochure show that the pull weight for the first 9mm of trigger travel in Anti-Stress mode is about a pound.

[DAdams]

P99s are a relative bargain today. Prices are down almost $100 from where they were a year ago. Mid $550s.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_55

Full size and compact .40 or 9mm. Take your choice.

Sights on the Walthers are easlily changed out from beneath the frame.

Magazines are readily available at CDNN although you may have to wait a month or two if they are out of stock at any given time.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/smithwesson.html

The SW99 interchange with the Walthers. No 9mm at the moment in full size.

[balance]

The mags for Magnum Research's version of the P99, the "Baby Desert Eagle", also fit the P99, and can be ordered off of the Magnum Research website for around $31 each. Also, I've heard that the 17rd mags for the new Walther PPQ will fit in the P99.