Mosin question.

[Nick9130White]

If Russian mosins shoot high, wouldn't that mean that they are made to be accurate at longer distances?
I don't know the specifics but I was reading that they aim high at X yards. Does anyone know what distance they are the most accurate?


Reason for edit: I forgot to make it so I get an email notification.

[kraigwy]

I've heard a lot of stories of why they shoot high: I don't think its soley so they can be accurate at longer ranges, they have a ladder sight that goes as far as you would want to shoot.

Made to shoot with Bayonets attached.
Suppose to shoot the bottom of the body (crotch area) etc etc.

Don't know which, if any are correct, but it does seem most shoot high.

Easy fix without screwing up the As Issued condition of the rifle.

Mine shot 8 inches hight at 100 yards when set on the 100 yard witness mark.

So playing with my slide rule, I determined that each .0061 of the Mosin sight, moves the impact one inch at 100 yards.

I didn't want to add height to the front sight. I noticed the slider on the ladder sight rest on the sight base so I took off the rear sight, stuck the slider in milling machine and cut it down .0488. (.0061 X 8). Put it back together and its right on at 100, plus the other witness marks are on up to 400 yards (the farthest my range goes).

[Nick9130White]

Oh I get it. That's a good idea. Would you be able to send pictures of the site milled?

[Nick9130White]

And what is a "floating barrel"? What does it do? I've heard it increases accuracy, but how?

[kraigwy]

Would you be able to send pictures of the site milled?

Sorry, my Granddaughter has my camera. But, if you look at the rear sight, you'll see a leaf or ladder with marks 100, 200, 300, etc. Now you have the sight itself, the part with the V notch. That slides up and down the leaf or ladder, clicking on the individual marks. If you fold up the sight, you'll see the bottom is flat. It rides on the sight base itself, low to high marks. At 100 yards its at its lowest setting. If you mill, grind or shave off the bottom of that sliding part (bottom of the notch base) it will set lower on the sight base its self.

Take off .0061 for every inch of elevation you need to come down. Once you put the sight back on the rifle you wont even see where it has been cut down.

[Nick9130White]

You're damn good at describing something. I don't even have the mosin and I know exactly what you are talking about.
Thank you very much for the help.
Would it be better to mill it while the sight is on, or should I take it off?
And how do you take it off?

[kraigwy]

I'd take it off.

There is a pivot pin at the front (toward the muzzle) of the sight. Punch it out and the sight comes off the rifle. Easy project. There is a leaf spring that is easy to line up when you put it back together.

It should be taken off the rifle to do the milling as you want it level when you put it in the vice or clamps, how ever you secure the sight for the work. You want to it cut even so it doesn't set cockeyed when you put it back together.

It's really a simpler project then I'm making it sound.

[Nick9130White]

Is it one of those things where if you screw up, you can't fix it?

[kraigwy]

Is it one of those things where if you screw up, you can't fix it?

LOL

No sir. the Mosin is a fairly simple rifle, hard to screw up taking the sight off and putting it back on. Big pin, big leaf spring, (not the little springs found on some guns that get lost in the carpet).

Where you can screw up is cutting too much off the bottom of the sight. Remember only cut .0061 per MOA you want to change.

OK lets suppose we screw up. Let say we are shooting 5 inches high and want to come down 5 X .0061. That would be .0305 we need to cut off the sight. Lets say we screw up and cut .0427. What that means is when we set the sight at 100 we will be shooting two inches low. OK no biggy, we can adjust the sight per normal ( or slide the slider up a notch or two). Just means you have to remember you may have to put your sight at the 200 mark to hit at 100 yards.

Being careful with your math and set up will eliminate the problem but it isn't that serious if you screw up.

[JASmith]

Before we get too excited about hacking up some fine sights, let's look at the consequences of the 8" high at 100 yards.

A quick perusal of my favorite ballistics calculator for the 150 gr bullet showed that the 8" at 100 yds gives about 12" at 200 yards and about back to the aim point at 400 yds.

What does this mean for the intended use of the rifle? Well, for one thing, aiming for the crotch meant that one would get a torso hit out to beyond 300 yards.

This meant that the shooter could see his target on top of the sight! Just think about how difficult it would be if the zero were 100 yards and he the choice of guessing where the 200-300 yard target is behind the sight, or fiddling with the ladder sight?

This meant that the soldier didn't have to think about holdover until the range was rather long. The longer ranges usually meant a little less adrenaline and other distractions, so the soldier was more likely to be able to take his time to get set-up.

[chris in va]

My friend is from Russia. He bought a 91/30 a few years ago and discovered the front sight was off. Rather than take it in to a gunsmith, he just grabbed a large rock and beat the thing over. :p

People baby these things too much. Aside from the 'sniper' version, they're brutal, crude, quickly made pieces of steel and wood designed to bludgeon the enemy into submission.

[44 AMP]

Yes, they are simple and rugged, some just on the finished side of crude. But they were intended to survive and function in the hands of peasant conscripts with little or virtually no training.

I'm not sure when they changed over, but I do recall hearing that the original Moisins had sights marked in arshins, not meters or yards. Without looking it up, I think that arshins are shorter than yards, perhaps 30 inches? It an old Russian measurement (pre soviet union).

Regardless of what the sight is marked in, shooting high is normal for many milsurps of the era. The Swedes taught their troops to aim for the belt buckle, and I'm sure many, if not most European countries did something similar. As others have noted, this increased the odds of a torso hit at unknown, or mis estimated range.

I have a Swede that with the sight all the way down, is dialed in on the 400 yd gong! I could change it, but I don't feel its worth the bother. You can change the front sight, (some people just add a piece of rubber tube over the post), mill down the rear, or just live with it and aim low.

If you want a real project, and are a handloader, you can play with different bullets and velocities until you find the one that shoots where you think it should with the stock sights. If nothing else, you get to shoot a lot, ;)

You can also try the different kinds of surplus ammo, there is a difference between them besides light and heavy ball.

[Drachenstein]

I don't know, My mosin will take out a shaving cream can at 100 yrds no problem

[Langenator]

I'm not sure when they changed over, but I do recall hearing that the original Moisins had sights marked in arshins, not meters or yards. Without looking it up, I think that arshins are shorter than yards, perhaps 30 inches? It an old Russian measurement (pre soviet union).

All 91/30s, M38s, and M44 should be marked in meters. (All made post-Revolution)

I'm honestly not sure how many, if any rifles were made by the arsenals between 1917 and 1930 (when they started making the 91/30), or how they would be marked.

[Don P]

The M91 Dragoon, and Cossack had the rear site in arshini which is the old measurement of 28". (arshini) is the plural for arshin
When the M91/30 was introduced is when the change to numbers representing meters was used as rear sites.
If anyone would like to read further here is the link to the site where I obtained the info from, http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures02.htm