Weapon for law enforcment

[Aaronb]

I have a friend who's daughter has signed up with the macomb county
sheriffs training, they gave her a long list of weapons to pick from.
Here are some he likes but wants an opinion on them. He did not say what caliber it had to be. Although he did list the S&W M&P in .40 cal. I would like you guys input. (Pros and cons and pice ranges

Beretta Storm
Glock models 22 & 23
H&K P2000 DAO
Smith and Wesson 990L and 4046
S&W M&P .40
SigArms
Springfield XD
Kimber KPD

Thanks Aaron

[Texcowboy]

Without hesitation, the Glock. As I stated in another post, accurate, carry well, easy to field strip, durable and since it will be carried open in all kinds of weather to me it is the perfect LEO handgun.
That is my opinion, yours may vary, dont want to start a brand war.

[zoomie]

Tell us again why anyone but the person joining the department is choosing her weapon? This should ultimately be up to the guy's daughter after she's handled as many of the options as possible. It'll ride on her hip, not her Dad's.

[mbott]

I would say that the M&P 40 fullsize would also be a good choice. With fixed sights, it should be the same cost as the Glock 22 and with Trijicon night sights, slightly less than the Glock with Trijicon night sights. Either will serve her well.

--
Mike

[scorpion_tyr]

Tell the person who will be carrying the weapon to go out, get her hands on them. Shoot them if she can. Then get whichever one she can afford and she shoots best, or whatever feels best in her hands if she can't shoot it first.

All the guns you listed will make fine duty guns. If someone else is going to pick her gun out for her, that's just a bad idea.

[HKGuns]

How much is your daughters life worth? My daughters are worth a LOT and I would go with the HK P2000 in 9mm from that list.

I would not let her get a 40S&W in any model as the recoil and muzzle flip will make her less accurate. Unless she's been shooting all her life of course.

[Double Naught Spy]

Without hesitation, the Glock. As I stated in another post, accurate, carry well, easy to field strip, durable and since it will be carried open in all kinds of weather to me it is the perfect LEO handgun.

They are all accurate, easy to field strip, and durable. If properly maintained, they should all be reliable as well. The only potential real advantage of the Glock over most of the others is its reputation for being able to run despite not being properly maintained.

As noted above, it is the daughter who will be the deputy that needs to decide on the gun since she will be the one using it and using it in situations that will have her life on the line. Given that the department is wise enough to let deputies choose from a variety of guns, it would be a shame to throw that benefit away by buying the gun from the set her father likes.

If the deputy daughter ends up with a gun that she doesn't like because of ergonomics or function, then she isn't as likely to practice with it or to become as proficient as she could be. The end result is that she will be carrying a weapon on which her life may depend and she won't be that good with it.

[Aaronb]

I agree Zoomie , I think he is just trying to narrow the list a little

I would think he would make arrangement for her to try a few before

purchasing any gun ..

[kraigwy]

Here are some he likes but wants an opinion on them

Ummmm,

Just a dumb idea here.

Why not ask his daughter which gun SHE LIKES.

[Aaronb]

I don't see what the problem is that someone would try to suggest
a type of gun to someone that probably knows little about firearms

I like my 1911 .22 cal kimber but I don't think it would be a good gun
for law enforcement.

[Aaronb]

Again, I don't think he's going to say. looks like all the guys
liked this one. Heres your new gun hope you like. Like I said
I think he's looking for input as far as durabilty, function, price.
controlability, and so forth.

Thanks Aaron

[38superhero]

G-23

[SW40F]

Perhaps she can take the list over to the Local Gun Shop and Range, ask which they have for rent, and try them. If you mean Macomb County in Michigan, Double Action on Dequindre Road isn't too far away, and they have a good selection.

I'd pick the S&W 4046, but that's just me...

[Yankee Bill]

I agree with what the others have said about her actually researching and shooting some of the guns on the Dept. approved list and make her own decision.

While it certainly does no harm to ask for recommendations, starting out as a new recruit it is quite possible that she may not have any prior experience with firearms. If that is the case, now is the perfect time for her to start to researching and shooting some to become familiar with them. It will be to her advantage (and those around her) vs. going into the Acadamy without any prior firearms experience, if this is the case.

I've witnessed far too many a "hair-raising" incident on the qualification and practice range while I was a Deputy Sheriff to suggest otherwise.

Just my .02, others MMV.

YB

[donkee]

As mentioned above, she should be the one to choose.

Why do a lot of us guys think that choosing a firearm for a woman is the way to go. Switch it around, should she start choosing yours??????

[Aaronb]

Thank guys, I email him a link to this thread so he can see
all your comments. All sound like good advice to me.

[Aaronb]

I'm going to tell him to get her and the two them take the list of guns she's allowed to have, and go to Double action shooting range. and get her hands on some guns

Thanks Guys

[Ben]

At work, I use the M&P 40. It's a reliable gun. If she's spending her OWN money, I would likely say the Smith M&P, Glock, Beretta, and Ruger P-series. They are extremely reliable weapons for the money.

Ben

[Archie]

H&K P2000, in .40 S&W. I carried one for a couple years prior to retiring and find it most acceptable. Even the petite females could shoot it well enough to qualify.

It is a 12 shot magazine weapon, but the grip is still much easier to handle than a Glock. The recoil is noticeable, but not over whelming. It is large enough to shoot and small enough to serve as a concealed off duty weapon.

It should be her final choice, clearly. However, as the question is being asked, one presumes she isn't totally confident in her ability to choose unaided.

One of the primary factors in selecting such a firearm is the ability to grip and control the pistol. The P2000 is excellent in that regard.

[Yung.gunr]

I agree with others on here, she needs to rent and see which one she likes/shoots best. The benefit of her renting is that she will also see what she is looking for and she can then somewhat tell if she will like how a gun feels at first hold (to some degree). I did that and while I did not actually buy any of the ones I rented I was able to purchase one just by feeling it at the store. By the way, it was an XD (the best polymer ever).

[Coltman 77]

HK P2000
M&P
Glock

In that order, are the best choices IMHO.

[deputydaughter]

Ok....I want to clarify....I had my father ask opinions about the handguns available on the list I was provided...I certainly would not make a purchase on advise alone. My intention is to try every one on the list. I have never shot a handgun and was hoping for some advise on what to be aware of or what to look out for. I know some people have had different experiences. good and bad with dealers and the weapons themselves. I had hoped for that type of input. Sorry if my dad was not clear in his request for advise. I appreciate any advise you may have to offer, but will ultimately choose what is best for me. Thank you!!!

[jmr40]

I'd personally pick the Glock, but could make a good argument for the S&W M&P pistols.

[LouCap]

Ok....I want to clarify....I had my father ask opinions about the handguns available on the list I was provided...I certainly would not make a purchase on advise alone. My intention is to try every one on the list. I have never shot a handgun and was hoping for some advise on what to be aware of or what to look out for. I know some people have had different experiences. good and bad with dealers and the weapons themselves. I had hoped for that type of input. Sorry if my dad was not clear in his request for advise. I appreciate any advise you may have to offer, but will ultimately choose what is best for me. Thank you!!!

I have worked as a LEO for 11 years and carried a Glock for my entire career so far. They are reliable, accurate and a breeze to maintain. It's a "work"gun.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk Pro.

[Yankee Bill]

Signiing up for a handgun training class would be my advice.

YB

[deputydaughter]

Thanks, guys! I will have handgun training in the next couple of weeks. So far, it seems that the majority carry the Glock. Couple of the women that I have spoken with prefer the Sig. The Glock 23 seems to be a good fit. I have to do some trial runs though! I will be on a Sheriff Boat, so getting it wet is also a concern. I really appreciate all the input!

[Archie]

Congratulations on a serious career choice from an old, fat, retired federal flatfoot. (I went and saw "True Grit" a day or so ago. I could be Rooster Cogburn if I was prettier. And younger.)

You sound like you have a good plan. Stay with it and pick the one you like the best. And don't get all spooked over 'recoil'. If you can drive a full sized pursuit type car and handcuff unruly folks, you can handle 'recoil'.

And I'll repeat my advice; make sure you can get a decent grip on the pistol. No point is trying to operate a handgun with half a grip. It's like driving a car and barely being able to reach the pedals.

[deputydaughter]

Thanks, Archie!

[Amin Parker]

I would not recommend a pistol without a safety.

If criminals are anywhere near as violent and crafty as they are here in South Africa, those hollow points will be used against her.

I am not suggesting that a manual safety solves the problem, it just buys you time. An extra few seconds of life combined with training is all it takes to reverse a disarm and win the fight.

[BGutzman]

I would not let her get a 40S&W in any model as the recoil and muzzle flip will make her less accurate. Unless she's been shooting all her life of course.

Funny how these things go.. My little tiny 130 lb wife shoots 9mm, 357, 40 and 45 all accurately and all without the dreaded muzzle flip and shes only been shooting for 2 and a half years.

I think muzzle flip in many case has more to do with the person pulling the triger being intimidated by the weapon than the actual weapon itself creating the flip. Much like follow through on a rifle a pistol requires its own follow through. Yes any cannon can create muzzle flip including hand cannons but most the popular cals are quite manageable by most anyone.

As for what your daughter should carry, let me recommend a SIG, the quality of the build matches any H&K on equal terms but the smoother trigger (for me at least) means smaller tight groups that may make all the difference in a life or death situation.. Yes, a Sig Sauer containing steel will require more maintenance than a HK which is a lot more poly if not totally poly.

I as others here have already suggested strongly recommend your daughter rent some pistols and try them and see what fits her best.

I myself would prefer a 40 or a 45 to any 9mm for a service weapon but all of them are capable and its a lot like flavors of ice cream, we all have favorites.

[JC57]

Former police officer here too (14 years). Most of my career we were required to carry a 38 revolver, but towards the end of my stint they decided 9 mm autos were OK too, so I started carrying a Glock 17 (gen 1 back in those days).

The first requirement is that you find something that fits your hand and that you can learn to shoot well with.

After that, though, consider that cops work outside in all sorts of weather, and sometimes you end up getting wet, muddy, snow-covered, or dusty in the course of the day.

Also, this is something that's going to be on your belt every day, day-in, day-out. You don't want something that you're going to have to spend a lot of time maintaining because quite frankly unless you're really into guns and shooting as a hobby, it's eventually just going to be another tool of your job. And one that will probably never get used on duty other than during training and qualification.

So all that being said, out of your list of choices I'd pick the Glock 23 Gen 4. If the Glocks fit your hand and point naturally for you, it's a great choice.

[kaylorinhi]

I own a S&W M&P in .45 never had an issue at all, Rented M&P in 9mm, .40, and .45 also glock 21, 22, and 23 many times at the range when choosing my side-arms. Never had the Glocks fire to operate as needed so those two platforms were on my short list. The fact that the Polymer components are "less" affected by the temperature and humidity cycles than wood or metal is a factor I would consider as well. Trijicon sight's would be a "have to" on my list. Repetition, repetition, repetition will shorten the list even further.

[priler]

i agree that in the end it must be her choice.it is not wise to force one's particular choice of firearm on someone else,especially if she shoots better and feels more comfortable with a different one from the list.

however,i'll offer this just for consideration and it should not be taken as the best answer for her.

first,..it seems to me that the department wants .40s&w and in DAO.


here are my top three in order of preference:

#1 s&w m&p
#2 beretta px4
#3 h&k p2000 (V5)

...and here's the reason for my number one consideration,the m&p:
#1 in "DAO",as it has been named,it has the lighter trigger with the least amount of travel before the break.i also think it has the shortest reset.(compared to the other two)
#2 higher capacity than the other two
#3 it has a longer barrel and sight radius than the other two
#4 there is arguably more aftermarket sight options than the other two.
#5 there are more options right from s&w including,one without a manual safety,one with a manual safety,two different pro series and optional sights for each of these,..all from the factory.
#6 there is arguably more aftermarket holsters and any other accessories than the other two
#7 it may not be the absolute lightest of the list but it's certainly not the heaviest and should be good for all day carry.
#8 s&w lifetime warranty and CS are second to none,..period.(i have even known them to replace someones walther p99,with a brand new one,that was out of warranty,..now THAT is good service.)
#9 i don't think it has a lower felt recoil than a px4 in the same caliber,at least not in my experience,but it certainly has one of the lower perceived recoils from the list.my other two choices also have low felt recoil though.
#10 like some others,it has interchangeable back-straps to fit your hand,..make sure you try them all.
#11 you may find one or possibly two of the reasons above in another from the list,but not all the reasons.

again,this is specifically because it must be in .40s&w,DAO and from the OP,it's a duty pistol she's going to get.

under the curcumstances,the m&p is definately a great choice.

on the other hand,since she's a new shooter,she can probably adapt to any one of them.

i would definately urge her to try them all out.in particular,pay close attention to which one fits your hand better,seems like a natural pointer to you and has a trigger you find very easy to reach.

i post this with a little trepidation,as in the end,it should be because of her reasons and not mine or anyone else,...but,you wanted an opinion,there it is.

[BGutzman]

Dont let the polymer love fool you it is also like ice cream.

http://www.sigsauer.com/products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=6&productid=155

Sig even ran over a P220 with a truck after it was buried in the mud, something no other manufacturer I am aware of did during the trials.

Steel will take some maintenance, but even the Navy Seals use Sigs in school.. Its all what fits the user, SIG and HK are both high end, the Glock not so much but still generally reliable but not really in the same category (IMHO).

[jman841]

I am not a Sig fan but if I had to carry something around all day I would choose the Glock based off its reputation, and weight. I believe it is the lightest of the pistols carried and when i fire a Glock it feels like a combat weapon, very quick aim and after I fire it it is right back on target. The Sig's to me feel like it takes much longer to get back on target but you will have to shoot to find out what you notice.

[jimbob86]

Tell us again why anyone but the person joining the department is choosing her weapon? This should ultimately be up to the guy's daughter after she's handled as many of the options as possible. It'll ride on her hip, not her Dad's.

The 2nd best thing dad could do would be spring for a handgun training course. THE best thing would be to spring for several of them.

Kathy Jackson's new book

http://www.whitefeatherpress.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20&Itemid=19

would be cheaper, and certainly and certainly more useful than all our opinion on OUR favorite guns.

[Aaronb]

Thanks Deputy Daughter for Clarifing the point I was trying to make.

If you need any help at the range or otherwise I would be more than happy

to help, I've known your father a long time

[AustinTX]

Without hesitation, the Glock.

I'd certainly have some hesitation about recommending the Glocks. I find Glocks in .40 to be among the snappiest in recoil for service pistols in that caliber, and while I'm not bothered by shooting them, I'm not sure she would feel the same.

In any case, OP, every gun you've listed (except the Kimber, in my opinion) is a worthy candidate. As others have said, whichever one she shoots best is the one she should choose. You're essentially just asking people here what their favorite guns are, and the answers provided are largely useless for her purposes. She needs to borrow or rent every gun on that list, narrow her list of candidates, shoot those pistols again, and then finally decide which one works best for her.

[Jack Bauer]

I'm with those who suggest she try them for herself. I think she'll find the M&P to be most ergonomic, and much easier to shoot than a Glock...Heck, I'd recommend almost anything over the Glock...having had several, I just don't find them to be "all that"....I found the M&P, sold my Glocks and never looked back...

[LouCap]

Thanks, guys! I will have handgun training in the next couple of weeks. So far, it seems that the majority carry the Glock. Couple of the women that I have spoken with prefer the Sig. The Glock 23 seems to be a good fit. I have to do some trial runs though! I will be on a Sheriff Boat, so getting it wet is also a concern. I really appreciate all the input!

Okay, I worked for the Florida Marine Patrol, which had become the Fish & Wildlife Commisson. We have ALWAYS carried Glocks on salt water. I have NEVER seen a rusty one, ever. If you're going to be on the water, get a Glock.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk Pro.

[Cemo]

Glock 23.

[BGutzman]

Whatever she decided she likes..... Even if its a ugly stick beaten glock..... I would highly encourage you to do some research on what holsters and accessories are available.

Certainly she is going to need some good night sights and maybe even want a crimson trace laser installed.

The holster is also another consideration... Plastic is generally less expensive than leather but generally has no give either and will not form to your body. Some people love the plastic holsters but they dont work for me.

Leather on the other hand will form to a persons body but isnt as weather resistant as plastic. Leather also requires that the gun is worked in and out of the holster until you can assure a smooth draw. Its not hard to do but it takes a little work and time.

[deputydaughter]

Thanks for the help Aaron, and everyone else! This has been extremely helpful! I will try all the weapons on the list and let you know my findings! Interesting to see all the different opinions! I will be seeing you soon, Aaron!:)

[LockedBreech]

I really like my Beretta PX4 Storm .40, but I don't see any bad weapons listed on there. My own favorites would be that or a Sig 229.

[Forseti]

Some additional points...

Glocks, due to the fact they have been manufactured a long time, have far more accessory choices than others. With all other things being equal, its nice to have choice in that area.

I disagree with having a manual safety...I strongly prefer NOT to have one. Although officers, as responders, may have more time to draw and make ready, having one less thing to worry...throwing the manual switch when your mind is racing due to super stress...is a big plus.

Bigger guns with more mass tend to be easier to shoot than smaller variants in the same caliber. If you are looking at the Glock 23, also look at the Glock 22. Officers have the advantage of NOT worrying about concealed carry. Weight difference between the two (not including ammo) is only about 2 ounces.

I've decided the three dot sights work better for me than the rectangular bracket standard sights of the Glock. Might want to change them out if you feel the same. Rear sights are cheap.

Echoing some other posts, I strongly recommend you find a range that rents, drive to it regardless of distance, and try as many as you can to zero in on what you want.

[ClydeFrog]

I'm interested in knowing what type of uses or duties she plans on doing with the selected firearm.
Is it for open carry/uniform use? Or is it mainly for off-duty, concealment-protection?

In general, for regular uniform use(s), my 1st choice would be the S&W Military and Police in .357sig or the .40S&W caliber. The compact model with the ambi safety, night sights & no mag safety would be ideal.
A ambi-safety adds a layer of officer safety while open carrying.
If you have limited skills, I'd also suggest the great Beretta PX4 C model, the HK P2000(LEM) or maybe the SIG Sauer P229R in DAK.
Some models like the Glocks and HK P2000 series have mid size & sub compact duty pistols that can be used as 2nd guns/back-up but share the same magazines. ;)
You could carry a HK P2000 .40 then use a smaller P2000sk as a BUG.
If you are just starting out, a well made DA only hammer fired pistol is a great choice. It's safe to carry and you will avoid the bogus "you cocked the hammer" or "you fired in a panic because of the light trigger pull" claims some sworn LE officers or armed citizens have dealt with.

[Aaronb]

Deputy daughter, your welcome, you can get my number from your father
or have him call whenever you want. Good luck

And thanks to the everone else for responding to the post

[Texcowboy]

The poster asked for the opinion of the members of this Forum. I gave my opinion as requested. I doubt that he will rush over to tell the daughter of his friend that Texcowboy said to get a Glock so she needs to buy one.

It goes without saying that she should make up her own mind. The Glock was MY OPINION. If my son or daughter was entering Law Enforcement I would give my opinion and then he or she could make up their own mind. There is no magic gun or caliber, but personal preference.

[oneounceload]

She doesn't need to try a FEW of them on the list, she needs to try ALL of them on the list and decide for herself. HER life might be riding on that decision - this is not one her dad, or anyone, can make

[Webleymkv]

As has been stated by others, this really isn't a decision that anyone else can make. All of the guns on that list have a good reputation for being reliable and accurate so those are probably not huge concerns. The issue is that many of those guns have very different triggers, manuals of arms, and feels. What fits one person like a glove may feel like a bar of soap in the hands of another. One of the biggest impediments for a begining shooter is a gun that does not fit them well.

As far as caliber is concerned, it sounds as though the department mandates or at least leans heavily towards .40 S&W. I really don't think that the caliber should be that much of a worry so long as you pick a gun that fits you well. Most people can learn to handle any of the common semi-auto service calibers (9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP) with an adequate amount of training and practice so long as they have a gun that fits them well. From a terminal ballistics standpoint, I wouldn't worry too much about it because all of the common service calibers perform more alike than they do differently when loaded with modern premium JHP ammo. If your department provides ammo of a certain caliber, it would make sense to use that caliber so that you can have a good source of free or low-cost ammo to practice with.

You are actually pretty fortunate that you have a choice of duty weapon. Many police departments mandate or issue one or two weapons and their officers are stuck with them whether they like them or not.

[dondavis3]

My choices are:

Sig Sauer P226

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigSauerP2262.jpg


or Sig Sauer P229

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigP229PlatinumElite9mm.jpg

Or Beretta PX4 Storm.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/BerettaPX49mm4.jpg

All are fine high quality guns with proven track records.

I like the visible hammers , decockers, safety's, and night sights.

:cool:

[ET.]

I carry a Glock. My brother-in-law's department took all of the guns on their list and put them through a torture test: sand, mud, water, frozen, heated, dirty, unlubed, anything they could think of. The Glock was the only gun they didn't make into a jamb-o-matic. That's why I carry a Glock.

[ClydeFrog]

One big point I'd look into is if the sidearm/duty pistol has a loop or hole for pistol leashes or restraints.
If the new sworn deputy plans to tote the firearm in a marine patrol or be around deep water, a leash from Blackhawk, 5.11 etc may keep her new pistol by her side, :).
Many newer semi auto pistols do not include the lanyard. I saw a Glock plug that includes a leash attachment.
Most of the suggested brands could hold up well to regular marine/LE use but if salt air, spray, sand, bright sun were big issues, I'd look into the Robar NP3+, Cerakote/NIC or maybe the Black-T/Green-T protective coating.
It would make a lot of sense to get the sworn LE officer's pistol mags coated to improve their service life & provide smooth, error free feeding/function.

See; www.RobarGuns.com www.APWcogan.com www.Black-T.com .

Clyde

[TheGoldenState]

I have a friend who's daughter has signed up with the macomb county
sheriffs training, they gave her a long list of weapons to pick from.
Here are some he likes but wants an opinion on them. He did not say what caliber it had to be. Although he did list the S&W M&P in .40 cal. I would like you guys input. (Pros and cons and pice ranges


Well there's the initial problem.



(btw I would have voted SM MP .40)

EDIT: I see she is on the board. The SW M&P is the way to go. Shoot it so you can laugh at all the recoil bs:rolleyes:
Great gun, 100% reliable. Only gun I have (barring revolvers) that has NEVER had a failure of ANY type.
I just put a pack grip on mine, and it's even better.
Strips down in seconds.



If criminals are anywhere near as violent and crafty as they are here in South Africa, those hollow points will be used against her.

:eek::eek::eek:

[gruntrus]

As a fellow LEO I'll help with the decision process, as yet unstated.

Find the Glock which best fits your hands in .40 or .45.
Find out how many Glock Armorers your Dept. has.

Find the S&W which fits your hands the best.
Same for S&W armorers in your Dept..

Hang in there with your FTOs. Just smile and nod, don't get too nervous. Relax and remember your training.

[BGutzman]

Just not fair to compare something so flawless, reliable and beautiful to a Glock...

SIG Sauer P220 Carry, with Crimson Trace laser.;)

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66308&d=1295290119

[AustinTX]

Beautiful gun, but the P220 is definitely not without its flaws.