Fat square slides. Why?

[S_Constitutionist]

Hello,

I am in the market for another semi for CCW purposes. Right now, my only semi is a 9mm Browning Hi Power which I love to death, but I would like something a bit smaller/lighter. The thing is, I have never liked double stack with the exception of the hi power (just feels right)- I assumed that it was the thickness of the grip.

However, I have come to realize that my BHP with standard checkered wood grips is just about the same width as the Sigs, Glocks, XDs, and other double stacks that I have tried to avoid, yet the BHP just feels smaller. I have decided that the width and profile of the slide is what makes all the difference to me. Ie: 1911's and BHPs feel great with their slim, rounded slide. So, I have a few questions:

1) Why do most semis (including the Kahr single stacks) have such fat square slides?

2) What other semis feature a slide profile similar to the BHP/1911? Do any?

3) Am I crazy and should I just get over it?

[RickB]

Most modern nines have barrel locking systems, either at the top or the bottom, that require thicker, blockier slides than the old-fashioned Browing-style lockup. Plastic (actually plastic over steel) frames just have to be thick enough to be strong enough, and plastic is going to be thicker than all-metal. CZs and CZ-style pistols are close to HP configuration.

[Jim Watson]

1. $
2. CZ, SIG, several obsolete/discontinued guns.
3. No, but it won't do you any good to agonize over it.

[Scorch]

Fat square slides. Why?
Less machining. Less machining means less machine time to produce a slide. Less time means you pay that $30/hr machinist less for each slide produced. Also means lower scrap rate since there are fewer opportunities for an oopsie. All in all, it boils down to either taking a product to market a few dollars cheaper or making a few dollars more.

[S_Constitutionist]

I appreciate the replies and they all make perfect sense.

I suppose my real question should have been, does it not bother anyone else? I wanted to love the XD, for instance, but found the rear of the slide to be horrible.

Looking at pictures doesnt seem to help much, but I've yet to handle a Beretta PX4 and it looks like it may be close. Perhaps I'll own nothing but BHPs and 1911s? Lol I suppose that wouldnt be a bad thing.

[Adamantium]

Beretta Cheetah? I've never used one so I can't personally recommend it, but it doesn't have a big fat slide.

[pogo2]

You commented that Kahr 9mm guns have fat, square slides. I think I would disagree with the fat part, if by that you mean thick. I have measured the slide width in various guns with a calipers, and the 9mm Kahrs have a slide width right on 0.90 inches, the same as a 1911. I presume the BHP is also about 0.90 inches wide, although I haven't measured one. The BHP and the 1911 have a rounded contour on top of the slide, whereas the Kahr is more flat with rounded corners where it meets the flat sides of the slide. But I don't think the rounding affects concealability, whereas the slide width certainly does.

On the subject of slim 9mm guns, you might look at the Walther PPS.

[silentargus]

Whatever the reasons are on the manufacturer's end... The larger the slide is the heavier it is, and the heavier it is the more it tends to reduce muzzle flip and absorb more of the recoil energy. A bigger, wider slide is also easier to manipulate for shooters with weaker hands- I know a few people who had trouble cycling my Commander, but none whatsoever with my 908S even though the difference in width comes down to millimeters.

No question about what looks nicer, though.

[KurtC]

Slides that lock up only on the barrel hood (Sig, Glock, Kahr, XD, etc.) tend to be square in profile. Slides that lock up using a barrel lug (1911, S&W metal, CZ, etc) can have nice, trim profiles. These also require more machining and craftsmanship. Berettas lock up using a falling block, so they need more steel on the sides, but none on top. Hi-points don't lock up at all, so they need lots of steel, in all directions.

[Amin Parker]

What you are asking makes perfect sense. Its something that has been bothering me for years.

Its one of the many reasons i have been carrying my Browning and 1911s. Polymer pistols address the weight issue but its the thickness that makes a gun easy to carry. Many of us that carry a 1911 know that it carrys remarkably well for a pistol thats so big and heavy.

Good question

[Redbeardsong]

Check out the Ruger SR9c. I bought it partly because it has rounded edges on the slide like a 1911 and the slide is under an inch wide. Very comfortable to conceal as well as shoot. I've got over 1000 rounds through mine, no problems.

[Officer's Match]

If you like a slim/small slide profile, check out a P7. I love the presentation of a P7, and am looking for leather for my M13 to put it into ccw duty.

As others have mentioned, the CZ75 likely would appeal to you.

[micromontenegro]

"Fat square slides. Why?"

Other than what's already been mentioned, I blame it on fashion and marketing.
Picture your typical know-nothing: Gee, it looks like a Block... er, a Glock :D

[Sgt Pepper]

My Kahr P45 is as thin as my BHP and Colt .45's, conceals much better than they do, and is more comfortable to carry. I also find it easy to shoot and extremely accurate. Also note that the grip on the Kahr is considerably smaller and there is no hammer nor beavertail of any kind either.

[gearchecker]

I'll second the Walther PPS.
It has a small blocky square slide. Capacity is mostly dependent on which mag you decide to carry. 6 shot makes the pistol disappear in a pocket the 8 shot mag will disappear in just about any IWB holster. Very accurate and likes almost any ammo you feed it.

[Cemo]

Springfield EMP 9mm.

[S_Constitutionist]

Thank you for the responses. Its sort of relieving to see a few others feel the same way. lol. It also makes sense about the bbl/lug lockup system.

I will look seriously at the SR9. I had always assumed I wouldn't like it because its a doublestack, but this revelation opens up some new options. lol

Regarding Kahr, they are very thin and I do like them. However, the slide still has that square blocky rear. I have nearly bought a CW9 a few times now =P

The PPS just felt blocky and square in my hand. I think the BHP ruined me on ergo's.

I would LOVE a P7, but man are those things pricey!

CZ-75 felt great in the hand, but its oh so similar to my BHP in size and weight.

I know looks shouldnt be important on a carry gun... but heck, I love looking at my guns as much as I do shooting them.


Edited: forgot something

[ElrodCod]

A fat square slide will have a lower bore axis that a tall narrow slide.

[10mm4ever]

Scorch nailed it with his post. When you look at the way poly frame autos are engineered, quick/cheap mass production is the #1 goal and it's more than obvious. Doesnt mean they arent good and perfectly functional, but it is what it is. You're comparing a Zippo to a Bic.

[XD Gunner]

They are square and blocky because form follows function, not the other way around. It's most economical to make a square blocky slide, while the gun still functions fine.

[rattletrap1970]

I think it's also because of the use of cast parts. They have to be thicker to have the same strength as their billet or forged counterparts. I personally do not like the look of heavy, blocky, or cast looking (large radiused corners and rounded edges) guns. A big one here is Ruger. Other than the .22 rimfires they make (MK 1, 2 and 3) there aren't may centerfire autos I like from them.

[voyager4520]

As Scorch said, machining is a big factor. Another big factor is the cycle of the slide upon recoil. The slide cycling depends on guide rod spring weight and the weight of the slide. The more the weight of the slide, the less often the guide rod spring must be replaced. And to add weight to the slide, most manufacturers prefer adding width rather than length or height.

[Officer's Match]

Re: Glocks, it's so I'll always have a handy surface to dress the edge of my knife. ;)

[uzimon]

option 3:D

[Don P]

1911's have a rounded slide.:eek:

[Esteban32696]

It seems like very few " off the shelf " pistols really feel comfortable to me, either. The Browning Hi-Power feels good, though. Also, I love the feel of some , not all, of the Bersas & they are good guns, & well worth the money !

[Bill DeShivs]

The square tubing guns have no class. People have come to expect guns to look like something out of a "Transformers" movie. Sad, very sad.

[orionengnr]

I would LOVE a P7, but man are those things pricey!
Lots of P7s out there for ~$600. Great pistols, too...although I am admittedly biased. I've owned at least six of them over the years. :)

[Peter M. Eick]

Don't remind me.

I bought my 3 P7PSP's during the "scarce" period and paid over 1100$ for them. At least I was able to get one of mine NIB and have it waranteed in my name.

As I sit here typing, my carry P7 is on my hip in a versamax VM2 holster. Great combination and very comfortable to wear all day long.

Highly recommended.

[gak]

+1 to the SR9/SR9C - I'm looking at closely as well. Not bad grip on it either (ditto M&P for a doublestack)

[Amin Parker]

Bill,

You are absolutely right. The young crowd actually think that a certain brand of blocky pistol is how a pistol should look?

Style, manners, taste and respect are very very rare these days.

Well said Bill

[velocette]

S Constitutionalist;

You may buy another 9mm pistol, perhaps a plastic fantastic piece. You will not get one that feels as good, looks anywhere near as good as your BHP.
There is something to be said for old fashioned good looks and quality manufacture. Blocks and their fellow polymer pistols might be reliable but they sure ain't purty and they will NEVER get an envious look and a "Hey, nice Hi Power" from your fellow shooters.

Roger

[B.N.Real]

That characteristic has more to do with the weight of the slide helping to tame the recoil of the cartridge fired.

Otherwise,all semi auto handguns would have as thin a slide as possible.

That's why Hi Points have such huge slides.

It's an efficient way to tame recoil with without all the costs associated with a more advanced engineered in way to deal with recoil.

Hi Points serve their purpose well by the way.

Not a knock on that brand at all.

[FoxtrotRomeo]

Yeah Hi-points are chunks. The ejection port on one looks like it belongs on a MAC-10 or MAC-11.

Glocks and XDs are so inexpensive that many carry them because they're accurate, reliable and if they get some rust on them or some slide wear from carrying it so much, no big deal.

Then still others don't care if their other pistol gets a lil messed up through daily carry.

I think the only thing you can carry that would be cheaper would be a hi-point but I personally wouldn't want to.

[Tbag]

If you like the Browning, you need to find yourself one of the used FN alloy framed BHP pistols that have made their way into the USA recently. Weight wise they carry like a Glock19/23, for me that's a huge difference.

[8shot357]

3) Am I crazy and should I just get over it?

Or something else!:rolleyes: