Am I Just Lucky with 1911s?

[whippoorwill]

One of the more common threads we see on this forum deals with folks complaining about the overall quality of a particular brand. Often this is said to be based on a bad experience or experiences, often by the same person.

So, I've got to ask, am I just lucky? Although I don't have tons of money for semi-customs, I've managed to own 1911s by Dan Wesson, Kimber, Springfield, and Para (my only Colt is a Mustang, but I may be adding a New Agent). I have NEVER polished a single ramp, and I've not had to replace factory magazines (although my extras are WC). NONE of them ever gave me problems regarding FTFs, FTEs, etc. ALL ate everything I gave them. NONE have had any parts break. I would purchase from ANY of these manufacturers again.

I really believe that I'm probably in the majority, and that most manufacturers put out reliable products for the average handgun enthusiast.

Are there other folks out there who have had no problems with ANY of their 1911s?

[GaryM&P]

How many rounds have you put through these 1911's?

[rsxr22]

I have had problems with my 1911's but i also customize them and reload my own ammo. None have been major malfunctions. The only one i owned and didnt modify and ran with factory ammo that didnt work was Kimber

[Kreyzhorse]

I own a Springfield TRP that has been 100%, not a single FTF or FTE. I've put about 1,000 rounds through it so far and have done nothing but clean it and replace the 2-piece FLGR with a standard GI rod and plug.

[Jim243]

No you are not "just lucky". Most of the posts from honest gun owners have no problems with their purchases. I only own one 1911 (Kimber) and never had a problem with it or my other 45 ACP (Ruger P-97 DC). Now there's a contrast in prices (never a problem with the P-97 either).

In over 20 guns I have never had a problem, with the exception of my Beretta Neos (which works perfectly) that they want sent back to replace the firing pin.

I think Sara Brady has her staff on the forum just to sow unrest or so it would seem. There are some that can't find anything good in any of all the different firearms listed here. The PSE forum would be a better place for them, but they would complain that their arrows are too short or too long or too sharp. (LOL)


Jim

[Jim243]

RSX

How much do you want for that Kimber and do you have pictures. Will be happy to take it off your hands.

Jim

[l98ster]

I shoot IPSC/IDPA ALOT!! I compete on various levels from national events to local club matches at least once a week! I tell you this because I have had a lot of exposure to 1911's without actually owning one.

For example, I shot a local match this weekend and was squaded with 11 guys. 6 of the 11 shooters on my squad were running 1911's. 4 limited class, 1 single stack and 1 open. Over a 6 stage event, ALL of the 1911's had at least a single FTF. Some were much worse than others. We are talking custom STI race guns, to stock para and colts.

The other shooters, including myself, were shooting glock, CZ, and Springfield XD's. None of those guns had a single hiccup.

When I ask the 1911 guys about what they think the problem may be, they tell me one of 2 things.

1) Its a magazine problem
2) Its an ammo problem

Regardless, its still a malfunction and it cost them time and points, not to mention frustration. This is just one example. I have been to MANY events and the same problem exsists.

Personally, I have seen to many 1911's malfunction to consider buying one myself. Its to bad, because I think they look sweet and they fit my hand like a glove!!

-George

[Jim243]

I98ster

If I understand you correctly, you were shooting IPSC since there is no open in IDPA and the 6 1911's were shooting Major and you were shooting Minor. Since the points for Major are higher than Minor, by how many points did they beat you by??


Jim

[rsxr22]

jim243,
PM sent

[4runnerman]

I have only one 1911 and no problems yet, roughly 2500 to 3500 rounds. I also have never done anything other than a complete tear down and cleaning everytime i shoot it. I won't mention brand as that would just start a whole new thread.
Not sure what else to buy. Im just getting into buying pistols,but with one,i can't justify why i would need 2 or 3 or 4 or ect ect...

[l98ster]

Jim243,

You are right. this competition was IPSC. I took first place production and bested all but 1 limited guy in the whole competition (and he was using a CZ!!). 6th place overall. If you dont believe me, PM me and I will send you the link to USPSA.org!

Im not trying to insult anyone, but this is my observation. Obviously, you are a 1911 guy. Thats great! Im not! Thats great too!!

-George

[Chris_B]

Complete honesty-

I have three 1911s:

One an actual M1911 and 92 years old
One Colt Series 70 from 1978
A Worcester made Auto-Ordnance M1911A1 not sure on date but obviously after the West Hurley guns

I have less than 100 rounds through the original M1911, using an original two-tone mag. 100% operation, no issues of any kind.

I have around 500 through the series 70. I had a FTF with the mag from the A-O; that mag sucks and I won't sully another pistol with it. Only reason I still have it is to remind myself how bad it is. I was mentioning how the Series 70 was reliable at the range when my friend shot it this weekend. He had a FTF with a good mag. I actually believe it was the ammo; I had never fired that brand and after the price hike and same accuracy as the cheaper stuff, I won't again. I'm not 'hoping the gun is reliable', I truly believe the pistol is reliable

The A-O has been spotty. With the original Colt mag, it works flawlessly but that's in about 100 rounds

The M1911 is hardly a range gun. I believe the A-O could benefit from a 'smith. I firmly believe the two issues with my Series 70 have been ammo and mag related

With the range of mags for 1911s, I find it difficult to blame the pistol. there's so many variables on mags, feedlips, followers, dimple, no dimple...JMB put the dimple there for a reason; I think it's telling that my original two-tone Colt mag while very old has fed each of my three 1911s with no issues. YMMV

So many different mag types, so many pistol manufacturers. If Yugo made the same car as Porsche, I'm sure cars that looked like Porches would "suck". The 1911 is not an inherently bad or unreliable design. It is not perfect but name a perfect example of anything. Taken to an extreme, I could load a round backwards in a mag, and it would still be a malfunction the gun had. I'd argue that it's not the gun's fault though

[l98ster]

Chris B,

Thank you for your honest report!!

What my arguement was, is that REGARDLESS of why the gun malfunctioned, it still malfunctioned. It could be the mag or the ammo. My point was, when you needed the gun to go BANG, it didnt.

Again, just from my observation, 1911 (2011) pistols seem to have this problem everywhere I go.

You are right on the money with your report. If 15 different companies made the corvette, there are bound to be better and worse variants. Maybe that is the problem.

However, I shoot with guys on a regular basis that basically have unlimited funds for their hobby. We are talking the "best" 1911's on the market. THOUSANDS of dollars for each one they have, and even those high end 1911's have the same problems.

I shoot about 2500 rounds a month. The guys I shoot with do about the same. To me, putting 100 rounds through a gun and claiming it had no malfunctions is definitly not enough use to get an accurate assessment on the reliability of that gun.

Again, thanks for your report....

-George

[Chris_B]

No, I agree, a malfunction is just that. But I do stand by my statement that I can introduce a malfunction unintentionally, and it's still a malfunction. That is not a statement to the effect that the problem you see is someone unintentionally making the malfunction occur

In regards to the 100 rounds...do you mean to say that I posted that as proof of an accomplishment? Or of innate reliability? I posted that because it was the truth. It's not quite fair at all to pick up on that one thing of the three I posted and present it as if I touted the accomplishment. That's a bit unsporting.

What does "the best" 1911 mean? Are you suggesting that because thousands of dollars were spent on the pistol, that qualifies the pistol as reaching the potential of the design, and the best performance from that pistol defines the limitations of the entire 1911 pattern? In other words, despite mankind's attempts, a lot of money was spent on buying this pistol and it has problems, so the entire genre of pistols that looks like it could never be any better??

It's nothing to me if you don't like 1911s. No gun-makers pay me. I'm just curious as to how that could even be possible as a concept

[Stevie-Ray]

Are there other folks out there who have had no problems with ANY of their 1911s? Only have 3, but have never had a problem with any of them. Thousands of rounds through both Colts and probably between 500 and 1000 through my Kimber EDC.

[vikingm03]

I only own one pistol, a springer gi 1911. I cant compare it to other designs since i have no first hand long term experience with any other pistols.

However, if you just want some 1911 owner's reliability report, here it is: mine has somewhere between 1000-1500 without fail. Ammo was about an equal mix of what ever walmart has cheapest and, as of recent, my own reloads. All 230grn roundball (reloads are lead if it matters reliability wise) using the $6 factory mags off of springfield's coupon thing they give you when you buy a new gun. Lots of people frown on these gi style mags but mine work good in my pistol, ymmv. Am i lucky? I dunno, but i do know this: if i were to buy another new design pistol (xd glock etc) it would not be for "improved reliability" it would be for other reasons, since my 1911 is proven in my eyes.

[Jim243]

I98ster

First congratualtions on your match. I can believe that their 1911's had FTF. The problem with ISPC is that people will down load their rounds so they can just make Max with the min recoil and recovery time.

I have just the reverse in IDPA, the 1911 group can outshoot us 110% of the time (they have been doing it since Noah made the Ark). Since we all use our own reloads and are shooting against the clock and points down, we want our rounds to go hot and straight, there is no advantage for Major/Minor scoring. Therefore most shoot 9mm and those that use a 1911 do so because they can shoot the eye off a fly and recoil is like nothing to them. I have seen a fair number of FTF and FTE from Glocks and XD's (9mm) from those that want to play games with their loads. I would not say it is because of their equipment, but a pratice to bend the rules and gain an advantage. I'm sure if we checked their loads, they would not even make min requirements.

Again congratualtions and keep up the good work.
Jim

[l98ster]

Chris B:

I apologize if the tone of my previous message was lost. It was not meant to be antagonistic or flamatory in any way. The 100 round count statement was a general statement, not particularly aimed at you. Again, I apologize.

As far as the "best" 1911's that some of my colleagues own. I stated "the best" because their financial limitations as to which pistols they want to buy is seemingly limitless. They can afford anything out there, plus they are extremely knowledgeable when guns are concerned. They spare no expense in the equipment that they buy. What I was trying to get at was, with their finances the way they are, coupled with the knowledge they have of 1911 pistols, they purchase the "best". They have spent countless hours putting together loads that fire the best. They have spent money with the top gunsmiths in the country, and still, during rapid fire pistol competition, they always seem to run into these reliability problems. When asked, they claim its a mag or ammo problem. Its almost like their reasoning is an excuse to protect their pride. If I spent $4000+ on a pistol, I wouldnt want to admit it was having problems either.

Bottom line: as long as you are havingfun and enjoying yourself, thats really all that matters

-George

[l98ster]

Jim243,

thanks for the kind words.

-George

[MLeake]

... I don't think you meant it the way it came out, but your first post seemed to imply that most of the forum members who've claimed weapon malfunctions are less than honest. You might want to check the wording.

I've owned 4 1911's.

The first was a Series 70 I picked up used, back around 1989. It fed very reliably, but I wasn't very accurate with it. Traded it in on a .357 SP101.

The second was a SIG C3, bought new in 2007. That one was accurate as all get out, the kind of pistol where people watch over your shoulder at the range and say nice things about SIG's out of the box accuracy. Problem was, that one was finicky, and gave me some FTRB issues. A more liberal application of grease reduced, but did not entirely eliminate, the problem, and I traded that gun in on a P229.

The third is a DW CBOB, bought new in 2009. Accurate and reliable, the only issues I've had were with the factory DW mags. They feed ok, but don't drop out of the gun when the magazine release is depressed. So, I bought several Wilson mags, and only use those with the pistol. Problem solved.

The fourth is a Fusion Classic Hunter 10mm longslide, bought new in 2010. Very accurate; reliability so far is 100%, but I haven't put 200 rounds through it yet (It's around 150-170; lost count). I'm away from home, but plan to put a lot more ammo through it when I get back.

[RickB]

What is considered a "problem"? Less than perfect function, and never a broken or worn part? Any gun that's shot very much is going to wear, and when parts wear enough, the gun doesn't work. Shoot enough rounds, and you'll see empty cases, backwards primers, and that's just factory ammo! I see a lot of, "my gun has never malfunctioned in any way, 100% reliable, and I must have at least 300 rounds through it!" Try shooting 300 rounds a week for 20 years, and report back. :rolleyes:

[Chris_B]

I am not offended

If I spent $4000+ on a pistol, I wouldnt want to admit it was having problems either.

I think I understand. Maybe this is a perception issue

I can't equate 'the best' with price tag in any case, but particularly when 'the best' is undefined. Four grand...what am I paying for- what's my goal? Accuracy? Beauty? In this case is it a competition pistol that is the most accurate thing I can get?

If that's the goal, then I feel I'd have to accept some degree of malfunctions. That level of performance can come with a price different from dollars. Making a 1911 perform that way may involve difficulties with reliability, but 'reliable' would need to be defined. Zero failures in Infinite discharges is impossible from any firearm

When 'the best' is defined as 'the best competition pistol' then I can see your point, but that's a good point only from a point of view. If the friends of yours who spend 4K on a 1911 spent that money solely to ensure no malfunctions and they still got them, then that's different, but even if those people experienced malfunctions in spite of that, how does that erase the issue of other people not having malfunctions with the same pistol type? Either those people are lying, a 1911 owner's conspiracy, or in fact the dollar value doesn't equal reliability, or even a superlative like 'the best' if looked at from a perspective different from the one you or your friends have

Take a car for example. I could take the most reliable family sedan and increase it's engine output considerably. It would perform in many respects like a more expensive automobile and could compete in tests of performance, but for a limited time. Is it logical to say that the original car design was not reliable if I break the transmission because I have raised the engine output, and the torque smokes the transmission? I don't believe the original design is at fault or has been proven unreliable in that case.

Perception is reality for all of us. I think your reality may be one in which the 1911 must accept some downsides when brought to the level of performance needed to participate in the arena you play in. But I am not convinced that your arena defines the 1911 as reliable or unreliable, and it's not clear what criteria a pistol has to meet for you to accept it as reliable

[mete]

The target range is not the best place to determine reliability.Many years ago when I was involved with NRA matches reshoots were common .These of course were matches where most ammo was handloaded. One club got tired of all the reshoots so they said 'no more reshoots' . They said it was amazing how reliable the pistols suddenly became !!:D

[gwnorth]

It also doesn't seem fair to compare box-stock guns with modified competition guns. My factory stock 1911s (2009 Colt combat commander, a 1990's era Mk.IV gov't enhanced and a now sold Taurus PT1911) have all worked very reliably. The PT1911 had some problems with some used ACT mags I bought and one of the original mags with the Colt enhanced hangs on the last round. But, other those mag problems, the guns themselves have run fine.

It seems to me that a very high proportion of problems people seem to have with 1911s are a direct result of something they or a previous owner has done to the pistol.