SW1911 9mm VS Kimber Stainless II 9mm

[Electric Head]

Alrighty this thread is probably going to be pretty obvious, I want to decide between a Smith and Wesson SW1911 9mm Pro and a Kimber Stainless II in 9mm.

I will only be using this for competition, even IPSC. (10 round limit on magazines for me by law)

Now for the pros and cons that I have heard for each:

SW1911 9mm

PROS:

Works reliably / almost flawless out of the box.
10 round magazines come with it.

CONS:

I have heard the plastic followers wear quickly in the magazines and will need to be replaced with metal ones. Not a real big issue though.

The ambi safety restricts grips I can put on. I most likely want to use Hogue finger grooves, not sure if they'll go on. I don't need an ambi safety.

The trigger is loose - not an issue while shooting but while handling seems cheap.

In comparison to the Kimber - price is a con.


Kimber Stainless II 9mm

PROS:

Single-sided safety, will be able to put the finger-groove grips on.

Price compared to the S&W.


CONS:

9 round mags come with them. I have heard these mags are good though. I am thinking of getting the Wilson Combat ETM 10-round mags and metal followers for it. (I would need to get an extra four mags and 6 followers for the S&W anyway)

Plastic mainspring housing (or so I have heard). If it works it isn't really a great deal, I just rather metal. I thought of getting a stainless housing with a mag well and that would match the ETM mags better too.



Which one would you choose? What other things are good points? Is there anything I stated that is wrong or a non-issue?



Right now in my mind the Kimber with the metal mainspring housing ticks all the boxes: Cheaper, has all the features of the S&W without the ambi safety I don't want / need. I do have a Kimber rimfire with 10 round mags already that I could use for the first half of practice sessions and move to the 9mm.

[WC145]

I don't know anything about the Kimber but I bought a S&W 1911 9mm Pro Series for duty carry in May, I paid $1028 through budspolicesupply.com. I did four days of training and qualifying starting the day after I picked it up and went through about 800rds in that time frame with zero malfunctions. Since then I've carried the gun on and off duty, trained with it, and shot 3 matches with it (1 LEO only IDPA "style" except the stages were all around 30rds, and two regular IDPA matches). I don't know how many rounds I've put through it now but it's over 2000. I have yet to any failure to feed, eject, or extract. I've shot 115gr FMJ from WW, Remington, and Magtech, plus a couple of hundred rounds of my carry/duty ammo, Federal 9BPLE 115gr JHP +P+. I use Wilson ETM 10rd mags (plastic followers) and Metalform 9rd mags
(metal followers) and they all feed perfectly. I haven't noticed any wear on the Wilson followers.

The only issue/failure I've had was a problem that showed up in two different matches and only when shooting weak (left) handed. It was a slightly loose right side ambi-safety lever. I'd disengage the safety with the right side lever but the left side wouldn't go all the way down and the gun would not fire. S&W repaired it under warranty, paid shipping both ways, and it took exactly one week from when I shipped it to when I had it back in my hands. If you don't like the ambi-safety it's easy enough to have it repalced with a single side. You mentioned the finger groove grips but personally I've found that the factory RoCo grips really work well. They have a palm swell that fills the hand nicely and the texture allows for a very secure grip, even with sweaty hands. It was in the high 90's and very humid when I shot the LE match and between the RoCo grips and the checkering on the front strap and main spring housing I had no trouble maintaining a secure grip while drawing, shooting, moving, reloading, etc. Also, the magwell makes reloads a snap, I can really notice the difference when shooting a 1911 that doesn't have one.

I don't like the loose trigger just because it bugs me, none of my other 1911's are like that and some cost much less and some more. However, it does not affect the trigger pull which is clean and crisp (4.1lbs), and you don't notice it when shooting.

I'm very, very happy with this gun. It has proven to be reliable, very accurate, and incredibly fast shooting. The only change I anticipate making is the addition of night sights. Aside from that it has everything I want/need. I'm confident it will perform when I need it to and measure the performance of my other 1911's against it. Like I say, I don't know anything about the Kimber but, since it couldn't perform any better than my S&W, I really have no interest in it.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/__3_AZOV0zhc/S_HMTTbOUWI/AAAAAAAAB30/GUqB4ZB0XK8/s640/SDC10804.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/__3_AZOV0zhc/S_HMYVLXgeI/AAAAAAAAB4A/4i_kQo6hqaI/s720/SDC10807.JPG

[ShipWreck]

Polymer followers for 1911s are common. I'm not sure why you want to replace them. Some of the best mags come with polymer followers

[thump_rrr]

I was looking at the Kimber Stainless Target II in 9mm but I wanted an ambi safety and something a little nicer looking than the matte finish.

IMHO its closest competitor is the Springfield Loaded Target PX9130LP

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=23

The other pistol I found at a comparable price with comparable features is the STI Trojan.

With a legal limit of 10 rounds I'm assuming you're in Canada?

[rsxr22]

I dont own either nor have I, but i have heard good things from Smith. And i have had bad experience with Kimbers. I'll personally never purchase one again. A lot of the bad things said about them can be chalked up to internet banter considering a lot of the people that comment dont own one nor never have. They are a decent to good 1911 at best. And a lot of their models price themselves out of the game. If your looking to go the 9mm route, go with the STI Spartan, or, if you have the money, get the Trojan. All TX made, better finish, and FSC are the main differences in the two different models. STI and Glock are easily the 2 most popular guns used in USPSA, though STI is not heard of as much outside the competition world because they really only promote in the competition shooting world and companies like Kimber advertise everywhere. I think i bought a box of cereal the other day with a picture of a Super Carry on the back :barf:

[azredhawk44]

If your intent is 100% competition use, then you owe it to yourself to examine what STI has to offer.

They are THE name in IPSC/IDPA/USPSA pistols. Glock being the next, and quite a few CZ's and EAA Witness Match guns coming in behind those ones. Not necessarily in quality, just in #'s you'll see on the firing line.

[Electric Head]

Thanks for the replies everyone! To answer some questions asked:

I wanted to replace the followers as almost half of the reviews for the ETMs on Brownells are poor and there was a forum I stumbled across as well to do with the plastic wearing and no longer engaging the slide stop.

I'm in Australia, we have a 10 round limit for competition pistol shooters.

I want to use them only for competition yes but I like "working" guns or stock type guns. I'm not into winning the comps, I'm more into the guns and shooting, if that makes any sense. :D The STI Spartan does look interesting though!

[pilpens]

I have a Kimber 1911 9mm target II. Had issues with the extractor but when fixed has been reliable and accurate.

Also consider the STI Trojan.

[rsxr22]

i run ETM's. there perfect, only problem was the base pad, which they warranted and replaced with a new steel design

[Electric Head]

I first heard good things about the whole SW1911 Pro 9mm kit and their mags but after reading got some scary reviews about wearing out. Most of those were using them in STIs and other 1911s. I have heard nothing but good about the S&W kit though! I do like how they cut down the slide mass, gives it a leaner look, and perhaps feel. It could also be part of why it functions so flawlessly - they went further than reducing the spring pressure to accommodate the 9mm cycling the action.

I think I'll go with the Smith first, probably get me a normal safety to put on it, and the extra mags and see how it goes. IF the followers wear out I'll get some metal ones, probably won't happen though!

[Electric Head]

Well I've got the SW1911 9mm - Rocks!

I posted this elsewhere (thread topic was mags), so it's a C&P jobbie

Well I've got my SW1911 9mm Pro - the mags have the newer Wilson bases, not the wider ones with the angled front that finishes the grip off better that it is pictured with.

No real biggie though, I can get those bases, and I might get some steel followers too.

The whole gun is very nice, it was a little rough at first, cleaned it, worked it, shot it, cleaned it again, it's a lot smoother everywhere now. I swapped the ambi safety with my Kimber 22 - std safety, with a rounded pad, works better (actually the ambi seems to work better on the Kimber too) and fits the purpose better. I swapped the finger groove hogues from my Kimber 22 with the new Rocos too, again better for my intended purpose, and the Rocos look better on the black anodised Kimber.

Loaded up my own 9mms for it, 135GN LRN moly-coated, 28.2mm COL (1.110" I think) - 3.9GNs ADI AP70N, Rem SPP, Starline brass, all worked perfectly, big batch has now been made, taking it to the range again on Sunday.

[Rinspeed]

Both are good choices but I agree you should definitely consider the STI Trojan as well.

[pilpens]

I have shot more rounds on my STI trojan 9mm and can say that it is as good as my Kimber 1911 9mm

Both pistols are equally good (after kimber extractor tweak).
Trojan is just a hair tighter than Kimber but they shoot the same.
The Kimber trigger has a better feel than the plastic STI trigger.
STI Fiber optic front sight is very nice.
All the springs on my STI are lighter than original springs on my Kimber.
Functions OK, recoil spring just feels too light.
Plastic mainspring sounds bad but they work fine. My Kimber .45 has plastic and the STI has plastic.

S&W CON - rear sight is not BOMAR type adjustable. cost.
STI CON - cheap feel of plastic trigger and visible hole on frame when thumb safety is engaged.
Kimber CON - maybe front strap serration but I really do not miss it when shooting.

[9x19]

Between those choices, I'd opt for the Kimber, but....

Have you considered the Springfield in 9mm?

I prefer it over either of the other two.

Springfield Loaded Target 9mm (they are available with fixed sights also)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/pb9x19/SATgt9mm.jpg