Whats with the Odd ball Hd Shotguns?

[mordis]

First it was stoeger with there Double defence Railed SXS coach gun. Now Mossberg is in the game with the Hs12 maveric. A over under double barrel shotgun. Aside from the fact that both these guns can be had on the cheap, and from my experiance, the sxs tends to handle pretty quickly, what advantages are there?? Especialy when you can get a questionably made 870 clone from Nef. On that note, any one use NEF shotguns? Are they reliable, and do they take the same accsessories as the 870.

From my experiance with the stoeger coach gun at a local sass event. I had no trouble firing both barrels and reloading in quick amount of time and engaging 2 more targets, even with out the ejector. I was taught by the guys to toss the gun to the back to throw the shells out. I would imagine the same proceedure would work for the Hs12.

My problem is A the lack of capacity. They only hold 2 rounds. That is a pretty bad starting point. SEcondly unless you have alot of practice firning and loading them quickly the average joe will not beable to reload them quickly.

So what say oyu about these New tacticle sxs and over under shotguns hitting the market. Makes me wonder if there release a tacticle railed version of the 1897.

[jmortimer]

For $200.00 the Remington/Marlin/H&R 870 clone is a great value - Here are 9 LEO reviews for the Pardner Protector from Police Link and as you can see they love their Pardners http://policelink.monster.com/products/products/3296-hr-1871-pardner-pump-protector All parts interchange except barrels and their is a difference in the receivers so some accessories will not fit if they are dependent on the receiver shape.

[SoilworK777]

a questionably made 870 clone from Nef

Personally I'd substitute "questionably" with "better". Try to find a Hawk 982. It has quality ghost rings. I've had no trouble with mine.

[Tamara]

I thought this post was going to be about the goofy tumors that have been popping up on Mossberg barrels recently...

[idek]

All this is just opinions, but here goes...

I don't suspect we'll see our military and police forces replacing pumps or semi-autos will break action guns anytime soon. For combat purposes, I just don't think two shots before reloading would be enough.

That said, for home defense against a single intruder, maybe two quick shots is enough.

I imagine the most obvious benefit would be the short length. Special (expensive) permits are needed to get shotguns with barrels are short as 14". A break action with 18" barrels will have an overall length similar to a repeating gun with a 14" barrel.

Although you only have two shots in the break action guns, at least you start with two rounds chambered. However unlikely, a cycling problem with a pump or auto could limit you to one shot, regardless of how many shells are waiting in the magazine.

For someone less familiar with shotguns, loading/reloading a break action may be easier and faster than loading the same number of shells into a repeater. That said, I can't see why a double intended for defense would have extractors instead of ejectors. :confused: I'd tend to think a sxs would make a little more sense than an o/u in terms of reloading, since the sxs needs less room to break open.

[zippy13]

My problem is A the lack of capacity. They only hold 2 rounds. That is a pretty bad starting point.Yes, a double has only two shots without reloading; but, you can get them off much quicker than with a pump gun -- that's a trade-off you need to evaluate. If you reload "safari style" (with two shells already between the fingers of your strong hand), a double gun can get off four shots quite quickly.Secondly unless you have a lot of practice firing and loading them quickly the average Joe will not be able to reload them quickly.
You should be well trained with any gun to be used for HD. IMHO, once trained, most folks can stuff two in a double gun much faster than they can fill a stick gun's mag tube.

[oneounceload]

Uh-oh....Zippy's telling y'all and no one is listening............better be listening folks

[abelacres]

I can hear him OOL and he's right as usual

[EdInk]

I think a pump or semiauto is a better choice than a double barrel. However, we are talking about a couple shotgun blasts not a .22 plinker. It should handle most situations okay if needed.

[mordis]

Like i said, i can load a sxs pretty quickly, tho i have never done so under any kind of meaningfull stress. Thinking about this, my father protects his home with some no name Bolt action shotgun that holds all of 2 rounds in the mag.(its pretty cool with a built in choke that can be twisted and adjusted) He seams pretty confidant with it.

I think they used extractors instead of ejectors to keep the costs down. I guess my only gripe is with the capacity. Tho that may be a result of gun mags and media telling me i need as many rounds as i can carry to defend my self.

There seams to be a interesting debate on the sass wire forum, and alot there wont use sxs for HD. You would think they would be the first accept it.

Edit to add, That Pardner looks amazing, and all the leo's that reviewd it loved it. Is there a list of items that do fit it?

[idek]

Here are 9 LEO reviews for the Pardner Protector from Police Link and as you can see they love their Pardners
Not trying to stir anything up, just curious: is there anything that proves these reviews are from LEO? Could any average Joe get an account on that website?

[zip22]

Does anyone have a link to a picture or description of the HS12? This page is the only one that comes up in a search.

[markj]

With a double gun you lose the racking factor you get with a good pump gun :)

I prefer a pump, the 1300 winchester does just fine there. I do want a coach gun tho for my dear old mammy :) it is what she wants, cant argue with her she shoots a 357mag.

[mordis]

I handled the Stoeger double defence, and it handles very well. Easy to swing, and if its anything like the coach gun i used in Sass, then reloading wouldnt be a issue.

I wounder How much it would cost to get a more expensive sxs, or o/u, one with ejectors, to be just as tacticool. Items such as this, definately make you rethink what is truely needed and what is just icing on the cake when it comes to HD.

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't see double barrel shotguns as being odd ball HD guns. They were about the best HD shotgun going in the 19th century until the lever action came out in 1887.

Not odd but old technology.

[zip22]

I really can't find anything on this gun. Is it like the maverick hunter but shorter?
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=75445

[mordis]

Whats odd about this shotgun is that, its got a review in the new personal defence magazine, but its not listed on neither mossbergs or maverics website..

[Archer 9505]

I agree with the conventional wisdom that a pump is the superior HD weapon. However, I am a fan of a double for home defense. A quick handling double is baseball bat simple. No risk of panicking and short stroking the pump in the moment of need. Duct tape a 2D cell mag light under the barrels, put on a stock mounted shell holder and a simple stiff sling (so that you can effectively manipulate the weapon one handed while opening doors, calling the cops, etc.) And now you have a highly capable redneck weapon system, all for under $250.00.
As for lack of fire power? A double 12 may leave me under gunned if the threat is a SEAL direct action team but in all probability it is plenty of medicine for your typical tweaker home invader.

[zip22]

Whats odd about this shotgun is that, its got a review in the new personal defence magazine, but its not listed on neither mossbergs or maverics website..
the hunter I linked to isn't listed anywhere either. can someone list the specs of the hs 12?

[Technosavant]

As for lack of fire power? A double 12 may leave me under gunned if the threat is a SEAL direct action team but in all probability it is plenty of medicine for your typical tweaker home invader.

I think there's some wisdom here.

You have to remember what kind of threat you're likely to be facing. In a HD situation, careful reading of the monthly installment of the American Rifleman indicates to me that most of the time you aren't going to be shooting moe than twice. Usually not more than once. In this event, a double should be sufficient. We just aren't going to be defending against a marauding horde- maybe a couple thugs who will turn tail the moment you touch off the first shot.

I personally don't use a double for HD, but that's because I don't have one and wouldn't be as practiced with it if I did. It seems to me that ammo capacity shouldn't be the primary consideration- I wouldn't recommend a single shot black powder firearm, but it just isn't realistic to think you'll be getting into a drawn out gunfight.

[markj]

Never used a double, I might fumble it a bit and end up shot. Best to use what I am used to. Here in Pheasant Country we used 12 ga pumps, have also shot quail, have taken 4 out of a covey with 4 shots in my youth. Cant do that with a double gun.

I say use what you know, in the heat of the moment it may be critical.

[Dave McC]

"Use what you know"....

Amen.

Hardware is easy, it's the software that decides who assumes ambient temperature and who doe not.

[mordis]

Thats the truth.. as of now, the guns i know the best are sxs guns. Tho i dont like thefact stoeger goes onsafe when closed... Dont know about the mossberg.. I can reload both fairly quickly if i have to.

[zippy13]

Whats odd about this shotgun is that, its got a review in the new personal defence magazine, but its not listed on neither mossbergs or maverics website.
If it was computer related, it would be called Vaporware. Of course, the review could have been based on a prototype or pre-release gun.

[Smitty in CT]

Whats odd about this shotgun is that, its got a review in the new personal defence magazine, but its not listed on neither mossbergs or maverics website..
Mossberg's website is al least a year behind their products and since Maverick is owned by Mossberg... theirs is 3 or 4 years behind what they're selling...

They need to get into the 21st century when it comes to marketing and sales....

[TMackey]

Pics or it didn't happen. :D

If we all liked the same thing, there would only be one choice.

Wouldn't THAT be fun. ;)

[greyeyezz]

Reason I use a coach gun for HD over my 870 is its 7" shorter.

[shortwave]

I'm in the 'USE WHAT YOUR TRAINED IN" camp.

Dad always carried a five shot Smith revolver as a duty weapon and after retired as his ccw. He could load it as fast as most could load an auto.

I can load a single/double shot fairly quickly but still prefer my Rem 1100 with my slug bbl. for HD. Have had it nearly 30yrs and many hundred rounds through her.
Its what I know.

[NightSleeper]

My problem is A the lack of capacity. They only hold 2 rounds. That is a pretty bad starting point. SEcondly unless you have alot of practice firning and loading them quickly the average joe will not beable to reload them quickly.

I agree. But against one home intruder it should be more than sufficient, provided your aim is true.

On the other hand, I was raised on pump action shot guns so that's what I prefer.

[Fiv3]

I like SxS just fine. However, I keep an 870 for HD.
A couple of reasons. I am more familiar with it, it has double the capacity, and it can be stored "safer".

I have a little one at home who will one day be a major concern regarding what I keep loaded up for HD. A hammerless SxS is usually self cocking, so to keep it "safe" it only has the slide safety. The 870 can be loaded cruiser ready with the safety on. While I keep my guns inaccessible to my daughter, having to hold in the latch and click over the safety gives me a little more piece of mind.

Regardless, the ol' 870 is my favorite firearm:D If I had to forsake all others, it'd just be me and my 870P Magnum.

[zip22]

I really can't find anything on this gun. Is it like the maverick hunter but shorter?
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=75445

I checked out the magazine and it is a shorter maverick hunter

per Sporting Times Personal Defense 2010

Maverick HS12
$450
18.5" barrel
35.5" OAL length
rail for optics on top and for lights / lasers on bottom (similar to Stoegar double defense)
fiber optic front sight
extractors
6lb 4 oz loaded with a light

for the price, I think I would rather get two maverick 88 security 8 shot models. Does this really offer any benefit?
-I was thinking it might be cheap - close to the maverick pump, but at $450, you are way outside of the budget home defense guns.
-It is 3" shorter than a 18.5" pump model, but you can take off 2" with a shorter stock for the pump very cheaply. I'm guessing shortening the stock on the HS12 will be more dificult.
-It may be slightly lighter, but as the article mentions, recoil is bad because of the weight.
-As a new person to shotguns, breaking open an o/u took just as much time to figure out as how to operate a pump. Extractors instead of ejectors on the HS12 make the pump even more desirable (I would think).