Winchester Ranger 9mm +P+ ammo

[tristar viper]

I found this online tonight. Has anybody used this or have experience with it? I find it hard to believe that we can actually buy this stuff because it even says "Law Enforcement Ammunition" on the box. I've been unable to find any more of the Winchester NATO (white box) 9mm +P+ hollow points I have been using and love so much, so now I might try this Ranger stuff if it's actually possible for an average Joe to get it.....below is the link:
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/50rd-9mm-winchester-ranger-127gr-p-t-series-ra9ta

Do any of you guys have a good source for other +P+ ammo for a 9mm?

[rock185]

I have used quite a bit of the Win 127 +P+ you mentioned, along with the Win 115 +P+ and Federal 115 +P+. The LE or LE Only marking on the box does not make it illegal, unless you live in a state that has passed some kind of a law making it so. +P+ is normally sold only on Dept. purchase orders with a hold harmless type agreement,etc. Distributors buy contract over-runs,etc to obtain the +P+ stuff for sale to the public.

I have also used a Bunch of the Win white box 124 grain NATO ball ammo as well as the tan box Win NATO and some Federal NATO ball. I have not seen NATO jhp ammo and didn't know there was such a thing. Do you have the Winchester product/stock number for NATO jhp ?

Most recently, I have purchased 9MM +P+ of various manufacturers and types from ammotogo and MiWall Corp/Wholesale Ammo.

[bamaranger]

I've never heard of NATO jhp either. I thought Mil ammo was FMJ by convention.

But NATO ball was/is common .
We shot up quite a bit running transition classes from revolver to auto pistol in the mid-late 90's.

The +P+ 9mm 115 was attractive as a duty load, but some of our guys told me they did not get the velocity they were looking for in compact bbl lengths, for us the P228. The longer P226 did some better. Never chronoed any myself.

Most of the guys looking at hi capacity went to the .40 when it became available shortly thereafter.

[CDW4ME]

Ranger T 127 gr. +P+ (average for 5 shots)
Glock 26: 1,182 fps
Glock 19: 1,238 fps

[tightgrouper]

They had some of that over at ammotogo. I almost bought a couple boxes.
I chose the Gold Dot 124 +P instead.

I just have a couple lingering uncertainties with +P+. And, I prefer Gold Dot to about any other SD ammo.

[amd6547]

The Ranger +P+ 127gn load is my favorite...mainly because it has proven to be the most accurate load of any I have tried in both my Beretta 92FS and my Browning HiPower.

[precision_shooter]

That particular ammo, used to be marketed as Black Talons and were teflon coated. Due to several frivolous law suits claiming it was "armor peircing" due to the teflon coating, and complaints by minority leaders stating the name Black Talon was a racist name, it was remarketed as you see now with Law Enforcement printed on the box.

It's great ammo, and as others have stated, as long as there is not a law in your state prohibiting you from owning it, then by all means buy some.

[B. Lahey]

The Ranger +P+ 127gn load is my favorite...mainly because it has proven to be the most accurate load of any I have tried in both my Beretta 92FS and my Browning HiPower

Same here; it shoots wonderfully in my Hi-Power.

With regard to the Winchester +P+, it seems mostly to be a marketing deal. As I understand it the pressures are only a very small fraction higher than standard +P loads. Many +P varieties of ammunition from other companies offer comparable performance (Gold Dots, HSTs, etc...).

ammunitiontogo.com gets a small amount here and there. Other than that, you sometimes see it at gunshows... or at least you used to.

[tightgrouper]

used to be marketed as Black Talons

"Talon" is still part of the name. I forget the preceding word in the title, but "Talon" is in there. no more "black talon" though, as you said.

+P+, it seems mostly to be a marketing deal. As I understand it the pressures are only a very small fraction higher than standard +P loads.

That's my main concern. And if +P+ does have substantially higher pressure, then I want nothing to do with them. Kinda like that new fangled high-pressure blaster round that Smith & Wesson designed.

[orionengnr]

Although I seldom carry a 9mm these days, when I did it was loaded with Ranger +p+ 127s. My PM9 is still loaded with it, and I still have several boxes remaining.

[Rampant_Colt]

W-W Ranger T 127gr +P+ is arguably the best defensive 9mm ammunition currently available



That particular ammo, used to be marketed as Black Talons and were teflon coated. Due to several frivolous law suits claiming it was "armor peircing" due to the teflon coating, and complaints by minority leaders stating the name Black Talon was a racist name, it was remarketed as you see now with Law Enforcement printed on the box.

It's great ammo, and as others have stated, as long as there is not a law in your state prohibiting you from owning it, then by all means buy some.
No, no, no...
Black Talons were never teflon-coated.
The black coating is called Lubalox and currently used on Winchester's Ranger T bullets with a gold color instead of black

[dreamweaver]

Winchester NATO (white box) 9mm +P+ hollow points

i just bought 500 rounds of NATO fmj. have never seen any NATO jhp. anyone have a link to some?

[tightgrouper]

have never seen any NATO jhp. anyone have a link to some?

NATO uses ball ammo exclusively.

[GunsForSale.com]

As others have said, the Ranger 127 grain +P+ is a higher-pressure round that operates outside of SAAMI specs. That doesn't mean it is unsafe, but it does mean that it may be unsafe to use in cheaply built firearms. In better built guns, it is likely to create greater wear on the parts.

Also, being marked as "Law Enforcement Only" doesn't mean it is illegal to buy or sell, nor does it mean that it is any kind of super cartridge. Due to the pressures being outside spec, Winchester does not want to sell a cartridge to the litigious public. They make an internal decision to produce the cartridge, and then sell it to government buyers only, and dealers who sell to government agencies. Excluding any local laws, the ammo is perfectly legal to sell, own, and use.

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest the Ranger 127 gr +P+ cartridge is extremely effective, but it isn't magical. Multiple shots in the right areas is what will stop a determined assailant.

[TBT]

Excellent ammunition. I currently have my carry piece loaded with the 127+p+ Rangers. As others have said, the LE only lable means nothing to you unless there is some obscure local law that might have changed that in your neck of the woods (chances are there isn't).

Also, SGAmmo are great folks to deal with. That's where I buy all my self defense ammunition.

[jborushko]

Ranger +p+ gets chewed up and spit out of my new CZ phantom with NO problems.

its good stuff... its even better when you snagged 200rds of it off a dude for $40:D


NATO uses ball ammo exclusively.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/05/army-oks-hollow-point-bullets-base-shooting-ft-hood-military

so to correct the statement, we are NOT allowed to use them in foreign conflict due to the seriously outdated houge convention

and Expanding FMJ's???
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_54/ai_n24232193/

[Deaf Smith]

Thanks tristar,

Ranger +P+ 127gn is THE ammo in my Glock 26!!!

I'll order some more!

Deaf