Riddle me this

[jersey joe]

Why would less expensive ammo shoot better than more expensive ammo?

I have read "find the ammo that shoots best in your barrel" and I understand that it makes sense. I don't understand why supposedly premium components would yield a lessor result. I have found that my Savage does extremely well with economical ammo and poorly with the higher end variety. To be specific I find that Rem and Fed .270 130 gr. (economical stuff) does much better, for me, compared to higher end Nosler Partitions. Granted my basis for comparison is less than scientific but to me it is obvious. By obvious I mean reasonable groups (1. 5 MOA with me as the shooter) for the economical stuff and no obvious group for the good stuff.
Of course, the shooter could be the biggest variable but I did try to limit factors as much as possible.

Your insight will be appreciated.

[Caboclo]

Humanity seems to have a natural inclination to believe that more expensive is the same as better. Nothing against Nosler, but their manufacturing process is probably no more expensive than anyone else's. They just charge more because they know people will pay.

[farmerboy]

If you were going to shoot commercial ammo and my guns shot the econ. ammo better that would be a blessing. I have a 30-06 that loves Remington core-loks although I reload for this gun and thats what I shoot. But I have came to the very same conclusion as you, some as the top end may carry a certain name or have tighter tolerances on their brass or other procedures or may have a more complex bullet but if they dont group well in a particular gun why pay the extra bucks for them. I also think most shooters (especially non reloaders) dont really care or either dont shoot enough to be able to tell the differences. Maybe they feel if they buy top notch supplies it would make them shoot like a top notch shooter perhaps:rolleyes:

[rtpzwms]

Short answer. Shoot what works best for you and your gun. If you tell your gun/ammo dealer that this ammo works better in your gun maybe he'll be willing to charge you more if it will make you feel better.:eek:

[highvel]

Dont mess with the shooting gods, it's taboo to question such things!
Thank them for allowing your gun to shoot for less money, and DONT PIZZ EM OFF!!:D

[TXGunNut]

Lots of rifles seem to like the Remington Core-Lokt. If the expensive stuff isn't working for a non-reloader I'll always recommend the green and yellow box. I think it's a great bullet, I even use it in some of my reloads and I buy a fair bit of new RP brass. Good, consistent ammo with a good bullet. If it works in your rifle why pay more? Federal has some good stuff out there too. If I didn't enjoy reloading so much there are a few cartridges I'd be OK with buying off the shelf.:eek:

[Stumper]

Sometimes premium means special bullet construction rather than tighter tolerances. Ultimately a particular gun "likes" whatever it likes. Provided that tolerances are not absolutely atrocious the biggest factor in rifles often seems to be barrel vibratory harmonics- the barrel "cares" less about concentricity and ten thousandths of an inch of bullet diameter than it does having a nice consistent wiggle as the the bullet is exiting. If a particular powder charge and bullet makes for a happy wiggle then good groups can result from an apparently sloppily constructed batch of ammo .

[James K]

I'll tell a story on myself. I have a very accurate Remington Model 700 in .30-'06. It is a tack driver with just about anything, including my run-of-mill handloads. So one day, I decided to do everything right. I miked and weighed bullets. I spun cases. I used new brass and weighed and measured each case. I seated primers carefully. I weighed each charge of a powder and load I had used before with great results.

Full of anticipation of one of those "wallet" groups, I headed for the range.

You guessed it. Minute of bushel basket! (Not quite, but around 5 inches.) I happened to have some old loads and to rule out a rifle or scope gone bad, I fired those. Back to under 1". The explanation? Darned if I know, but I never bothered with that kind of precision again.

Jim

[surbat6]

I recall that, years back, Nosler Partition bullets had a reputation for less than pinpoint accuracy (had to do with the difficulty of making two lead cores perfectly concentric, IIRC). The thing was, they were designed to mushroom well and, at the same time keep sufficient weight to penetrate a variety of game animals. You generally don't need one-ragged-hole groups for big game. The complex bullet was the reason for the premium price.
I have a Ruger M77V in .308 Win. When I got it, I tried more than a half-dozen factory loads to find the one it likes best. I found two: Federal Classic with a Sierra 180gr Pro Hunter bullet for about $22/box (discontinued, dern it), and my buddy's cheap 150gr FMJ reloads at $1.50/box. It disliked the target loads of several makes. Go figure.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Why would less expensive ammo shoot better than more expensive ammo?


I'm glad that it does! My handloads are only 25% of the price of factory ammo and, you're right, they shoot much better!:D

[TXGunNut]

I never had an accuracy issue with Nosler Partitions, they shot as well as the Hornady bullets my rifle liked, maybe better. Used them quite a bit for hunting in the 80's and 90's, not so much lately.
Interesting story, Jim. Good luck figuring that out. My reloads always reflect my attention (or lack thereof!) to detail. If I'm not excited about and interested in a given reloading project I walk away and do it another time.

[TXGunNut]

Gotta admit, peetzakilla, I take special pride when one of my guns takes a liking to cheap ammo. Guess that's why my old Ruger MK I with its affinity for Winchester Wildcat ammo makes me smile. Cheap fun is the best fun for this old tightwad. Remington cases, bullets and ammo are always a good value, could be why they shoot well for me.

[ZeSpectre]

At one point I took a selection of "premium" ammo from a few different manufacturers in a few different calibers (rifle and pistol).

I disassembled the components and examined them, it was quite the eye opening experiment.

The biggest thing that surprised me was the variation in powder weight when comparing 4-5 rounds of "identical" ammo from the same batch. I also found a couple of examples of WAY too much crimp on some Hornady "Critical Defense" .357 Magnum ammo.

I've come to believe that a lot of the "premium" ammo really has just one thing...superior marketing.

Ultimately I've come to have more faith in my own single-stage, closely-monitor-the-process, ammo than most of the factory stuff (especially with .243 Winchester).


Jim Keenan,
I had a similar experience with my Remington 7600. At this point I make sure the case length is good and the powder weight stays consistent and my rifle is happy.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Why would less expensive ammo shoot better than more expensive ammo?..." The price of ammo has nothing whatever to do with how well the shoots out of your rifle. This is why I post saying, 'if you're not reloading, you have to try a box of as many brands and bullet as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. The price of said ammo means nothing." Rifles are just like that.
"...don't understand why..." Firearms are just like that. As daft as it sounds. Being inanimate machines, they don't care about the cost of anything. 'Premium' usually just means more expensive. Not better. Match grade bullets are different. They're not hunting bullets either though.
"...those "wallet" groups...weighed bullets..." Hunting bullets? Bench rest techniques mean squat without the right bullet. Nyah! snicker.

[jersey joe]

Thanks all.

Another lesson learned.

[TX Hunter]

Well the way I see it, every Rifle Barrel is not exactly the same, Some barrels will perform better with different amunition.
The trick is to try a variety of ammo.
Your Rifle will tell you what it likes best.
We have one 30 06 Rifle here, that is odd. I have tried several brands through it.
Out of everything it groups best, and performs best with Cheap Remington 180 Grain Coreloct.
But whats strange, it wont group well with 150 Grain of any brand, and it dosent Group well with 180 Grain of different manufacture.
So thats what we use in that rifle.

[Gunplummer]

I side with most of the posts here. If I pick up a gun and don't want to reload, Remington Core Lokt is almost always the winner, and usually by quite a lead. As far as bullet construction to kill deer, it does not get much better than the Core Lokt. I reload with them when they are available for the cartridges I am using.

[hooligan1]

Yeah NOW IT"S OUT!!!! THANK YOU!!!!(man I never can have a secret),. Sometimes rifles shoot less-expensive loads great..Having said, that there has to be a hand load that that rifle will shoot better because handloading is inheritly more precise. Now QUIT SPREADING THE NEWS,! or there will be a hell of a line at my Wally-World where I pay the lowest price,,,,. And sometimes Dicks Sporting goods runs a special right in the middle of deer season, last year, no foolin, .270 Win. 130 gr. Corelokt $11.50 per box!!! anyways,Happy Shootin dude!!


Thanks for coming!:cool:

[James R. Burke]

I guess use what it likes the best, like one fellow said that is a blessing. I do like the Partition, but I handload also but your rifle does not seem to like them so what use the one that does.

[doofus47]

My rifle shoots HSM just as well as the Fed premium bullets.
I've been sighting in with the HSM and just lay a Fed or two over the top to make sure that it's in the same ballpark, and off to the woods I go.
I think I've been hunting from the same box of Fed ammo for about 4 years...

Not that a 30-06 HSM wouldn't also take an elk or deer...

[Sensai]

I think that there may be something to high volume production lending itself to consistency; and consistency lending itself to accuracy. Of course I could be wrong.

[Boncrayon]

At the range, a target is looking for accuracy. The ammo that you use should consist of quality ammo. On the sandbagged bench, shoot one round and eject the casing. Leaving the breech open for cooling for about 3 minutes. Load and shoot again, adjusting for error after each cooling.

Now if you just want the thrill of the kick and sound, and want to shoot several boxes....use the cheaper round. It's the effect you are looking for, probably not accuracy.