Thinking about a Kel-Tec P-3AT...

[Tex S]

...with a Crimson Trace laser grip for back pocket conceal/carry. What is the good and bad about this little gun? Any other guns you might recommend that are in the same class? I really like the pocket clip this pistol has.

[Flipper 56]

P-11 is far better!:cool:

[WC145]

I've had mine for several years, used to carry it as a BUG, no laser though. I've never had a bit of trouble with it, no failures of any kind. It has proven itself to reliable and surprisingly accurate, I had no trouble qualifying with it on our duty course of fire in which we engage targets out to 25yds.

[full.tang.halo]

Good,
it's made in the USA, down here in Florida
it's the "original" bug design that others have copied
some like the clip, but if you carry in the front pocket I'd rather have a holster that covers the trigger good/bad

Bad,
It has a real, real, real rough finish, as in tons of sharp edges on every one I've ever seen IMO
the laser grip is IMO worthless, it adds bulk to a pistol that is supposed to be as small as possible, and really bothered my hand.
It's the "original", I think that Ruger took what was a good design and improved on it with the LCP.

[EdInk]

Agreed. Ruger took all the good features and improved the bad ones for their LCP. Buy one of them instead.

[raftman]

Have a P32 that I carry a lot, it's the same gun, just in .32 auto rather than .380. It seems very reliable, and is so thin and light that nothing else offering the same capacity and so forth can compare in terms of concealability.

I did install the little clip on mine, thinking it was a handy way to carry, but after trying it out a few times, but ended up removing it. The biggest issue is that it doesn't actually lend itself to a fast or consistent draw. Because it is attached at the rear-most point of the entire pistol, the entire grip is covered up by whatever the pistol is hanging from, so you really have to reach and fumble around to get the pistol out, it's not something I'd wanna hassle with should a real-life situation arise.

The pocket Kel-Tecs aren't range guns by any means, and even the weaker .32 pistol gets tiresome and uncomfortable to shoot after less than 50 rounds. I've found that with a little more weight and size (but only slightly), you can get a big difference in shooting comfort. For example the Sig P238, is one that I can shoot all day long without being troubled by the recoil. Of course, you gotta pay twice the price.

[zombieslayer]

I've carried one. It was exremely reliable. Bought an LCP to compare and they're both good pocket guns. I prefer the trigger on the LCP. If the p3at is a good bit cheaper, I'd say get one.

[Tex S]

The size of this pistol is what I really love. The LCP is nice, but it is a bit larger. The Sig P238 is also cool, but a little too pricey for me.

[michael t]

Mine is several years old and has never gave me first bit of trouble has over 700 rounds, Great pocket pistol loose the pointer light, not need. I have never found all these sharp places people talk about I had some flashing in trigger guard and little sand paper took care of that. Have 3 of the 32's the women in my house like them .Again they have never complained about sharp edges . and they can shoot more than 50 rounds with out trouble
Buy one and a good pocket holster I keep mine loaded with Corbon DPX

[gglass]

Go for the Ruger LCP as it is a more refined pocket pistol.

My constant companion... Even when I carry my larger handguns:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7822/deadmanslcplarge.jpg

[MissouriShooter]

Have a p3AT, love it, a little rough on the hand at the range, but it's not a range gun. Good for lightweight Summer carry. I occasionally carry a KT PF9 or P11, IWB, but most often a Taurus PT145 or PT111 MilPro depending on destination.

[sonnycrockett]

P3AT or LCP,which ever it is make sure U run 200 rounds in you gun
before you CC.......Most small .380 pocket pistols no matter who makes them
seem to be tight when new,just what I have noticed ...
I prefer the Ruger better gun and better reputation . . .Loaded with
Hydroshocks - No lazer plz,you have no need to aim at 5-10 feet away
just point and shoot.......if you miss run your ass off - practice at the range
on drawing and unloading your magazine as the gun was designed for
Anyone who puts a lazer on a gun like this is just like gadgets


.02

[Catfishman]

It's the "original", I think that Ruger took what was a good design and improved on it with the LCP.

Other than appearance. What is better about a LCP than a 3AT?

[WC145]

Other than appearance. What is better about a LCP than a 3AT?

It has a slide stop that you can engage manually, it does not hold the slide open when the mag is empty, if that's important to you. Other than that the differences are, for all intents and purposes, cosmetic. The LCP is a P3AT in Ruger clothing.

It has a real, real, real rough finish, as in tons of sharp edges on every one I've ever seen IMO

What sharp edges are you talking about?
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/p3at/pic1.jpg
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/p3at/pic2.jpg

[longlane]

Unless you count the fact that Ruger took an utterly simple and relatively good design and added complexity and features to make it less reliable and more complex...not a whole lot of difference. The Rugers are prettier I suppose, but if you're pulling this gun out for pretty, then the point is missed.

Our P3ATs have been good (for 3+ years of carry and shooting). A fluff & buff is your friend. Skip the laser and go for parkerized from the factory. My regular slide has some light surface rust near the rails each time I clean it. So does my fathers. But we do pocket carry as much as legal in the SE US year round. My wife's parkerized would probably be a bit better about not rusting...just my .02 cents.

[TinyDee]

I have both, that is the Ruger and the Kel Tec and have to say it is just a fine hide-a-way to have. Like it just fine.

[full.tang.halo]

What sharp edges are you talking about?

The molding of the whole lower of the pistol leads to the sharp edges I didn't care for mainly on the the crosschecking on the grip.

Other change than the slide lock was the trigger guard as a whole is bigger on the LCP than the Kel-Tec.

It's up to you if these differences are a deciding factor in buying on or another.

[Sarge]

I've seen this basic design at LE qualifications for nearly 20 years, beginning with the Grendel P10 (http://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/2005/12/grendel-p-10-380-semi-auto-pistol.html). The KT380 was a significantly better gun and IMO, the Ruger LCP is better still. It is simply a smoother, more svelte iteration of an evolved design.

I tended to shoot 6-8" low in aimed fire at 15 yards, with the only LCP I've shot extensively; could have been a quirk of that particular gun, I suppose. A big dot front sight, tritium or otherwise, would be a big improvement on any of these guns.

[HisSoldier]

I bought a laser for mine, and filled with anticipation of small groups at great distances went into the hills to shoot it.

I was very discouraged to make two discoveries, 1. The laser is not visible except in low light, the time spent searching the surface of the target could better be spent shooting at it. , and 2. Even in low light I could not get a small group using the laser. The long trigger pull makes holding the dot on target very difficult, and during a two target test proved to my satisfaction that using the sights produced much tighter groups than the laser did.

I had earlier modified my Kel-Tec with three dots;
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc225/partsproduction/KT003.jpg
I'd be willing to modify any one's Kel-Tec slides for $50, the slide can be sent through the mail. I'm surprised Kel-Tec doesn't have the three dots as an option, they help a lot!

[jon_in_wv]

I have the LCP and I carry it often but I still think the LCP and P3AT are six of one and a holf dozen of the other. Get a deal on one of them and you'll be doing just fine.

[Bill DeShivs]

All those "sharp edges" are called "checkering." If you don't like them that sharp, a light buffing with 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper will knock the tops off.
A laser is close to useless on a pocket pistol. Spend the money on ammunition and learn to actually SHOOT the gun.

[HisSoldier]

One other alteration I made to suit my experiences was to belt sand the mag release down almost flush with the frame. It kept releasing the mag in my pocket and when that happens it become a single shot! I started by taking off 1/16", and ended up doing it two more times until it didn't drop mags on it's own, I have no trouble dropping a mag with the tip of my finger, though changing mags in a gunfight with this little gun might mean I should have chosen a more capable handgun.

[Cheapshooter]

All those "sharp edges" are called "checkering." If you don't like them that sharp, a light buffing with 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper will knock the tops off.
Those sharp edges are what the test shooters at GunTests Magazine liked better about the Kel-Tec. The Ruger looked better, but tended to slide in the hand when fired more than the Kel-Tec with it's "sharp edges".

Tex S either one is a good choice for the purpose. If $ is an issue, the Kel-Tec may save you a few bucks.

[Kreyzhorse]

The Ruger LCP was my choice. Seems like a better made version (and it more or less is) of the Kel tec.

[Wleoff]

I had a P3AT for several years when the LCP came out. Since I'm a big Ruger fan, I bought one of the LCPs. After it came, I had to return it to Ruger for a safety fix. When it came back, I sold it. Never had any trouble with the P3AT, so why buy the LCP just for a name. If I had to buy one of them today, I'd buy which every one is cheaper. Not a dimes worth of difference in how they shoot. Either pistol works because you will tend to carry such a small light gun when you might leave something heavier behind. My P3AT is not my only carry gun but I do carry it the most by far.

One thing that is important is to fire it at least 200 rounds. 380 ammo is hard to find, but it's important to break it in well. If I remember right, the Keltec instructions recommend shooting 200 rounds. I carry Winchester Silvertips in mine and practice with some Walmart Remington stuff.

I carry mine in a pocket holster. I'm not a big fan of lasers on a pocket pistol. Good luck.

http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp244/wleoff/Keltectwo.jpg

[Tex S]

Wleoff, where did you get that holster? It looks like it will fit in the back pocket of some blue jeans or cargo shorts. If so, I think it will work well for me.

I own a swimming pool company, and even though I don't do alot of work in the field, I still bend over in front of clients when I am standing around pool equipment pads.

I have been carrying a Bersa Thunder .380 in a WRB Cordura holster at the 4 o'clock IWB position. This is problematic when I am wearing a polo style shirt because when I bend over the pistol will print or show.

I want to carry at work, but I can't have clients see me packing. Any other ideas for a carry piece that is very small and won't show? The Sig P238 looks sweet, but I really like the idea of being able to clip the P3AT to my waist or in a pocket, you know, like a knife.

[imthegrumpyone]

Believe it's been one of the best an inexpensive mouses made. ;)

[cz223]

and really like them but, I would buy a Kel-tech. They have a great rep amongst my friends, I know several people who own them.

[houser52]

Before buying anything I handled both the LCP and Kel Tec. The LCP grip seemed very slippery and I wasn't sure if it would be easy to hold onto during recoil. The Kel Tec has a lot sharper checkering and was easier for me to hold securely.

I bought the Kel Tec P32 about a month ago and have carried it everyday since. It's lightweight and rides in a Bear Creek Wallet Holster in my back pocket. It's had about 300 rounds through it without a malfunction of any kind. For me I made the right choice.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd66/houser52/IMG_0313.jpg

I liked the little P32 so much I bought a hard chrome P3AT last week. I've only fired about 75 rounds through it so far but it's been 100% reliable. The size difference between the P32 and the P3AT is very little and I can't tell the difference unless they're side by side.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd66/houser52/P3AT003.jpg

[spacecoast]

That Bear Creek holster is nice, I found a Desantis Trickster for my LCP that would work just as well for the P3-AT I'm sure. With the smooth side facing "out" in my back pocket, the edge of the holster catches the hem of my pocket, allowing the gun to slip out smoothly.

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac115/spacecoast_guns/misc/DSC01497.jpg

[houser52]

spacecoast -
That's a nice holster too. My holster works about the same way except that the removeable back wallet panel is rough side out. I'd never heard of Bear Creek until I went to the LCP owner's website, www.elsiepeaforum.com
Since you have a LCP you should check it out if you already haven't. Lot's of good LCP reading.

[elad]

I have a LCP and 2 of my brothers have the P3AT, they are practically identical. Check elsiepeaforum.com and KTOG Forum.com, they have a wealth of information on these little guns including info on polishing the feed ramp and fluff and buff.

[DG45]

TexS, I had to carry in my job too for my personal safety. I solved my Kel-Tec P3AT holster issues by buying an inexpensive black fabric Uncle Mike #1 holster, the kind thats made to fit a Beretta .25 auto. I thought my little Kel-Tec would fit inside it too, but suprisingly, it didn't, and I had to split the holster on the trigger side so I could get the gun in it. That also gave me access to the guns trigger.

I taped the holster together at the bottom of the split, then put some velcro on the holster with double-sided tape so the holster would stay in my pocket when I draw. I carry the gun in my right front (gun hand side) pocket. I wear pleated pants, and standing up, you'd never know I had anything in either pocket. Sitting down its more noticable, but it could be anything. I consider the gun to be well-concealed.

I haven't actually timed my draw with this holster rig, but if I'm already standing up and aqlready have my hand on the handgrip of the gun when I start to draw (in a real emergency, that would be an unlikely scenario, I realize), I believe I can have the gun out and fire a round in less than a second; certainly no more than a second.

Its much more difficult in my opinion to draw a gun and fire at a target in front of you if you start off with the gun in your back pocket. Also, I've learned that it's darn near impossible to draw the gun quickly from any pocket while I'm sitting down, so I tend to remain standing whenever I'm anywhere where I think there's the remotest chance that my safety may depend on that gun.

NOTE: Holstering a gun with the trigger exposed like I do is DANGEROUS and I'm not reccommending that you or anyone else try it. But you might want to look at a #2 Uncle Mikes Holster. That's the size that I should have bought and it'll fit the P3AT, but you'll have a tad more difficulty than I do in getting your gun out of the holster and into action, because the #2 Uncle Mike holster will cover the trigger guard (just like its supposed to).

[DG45]

I've had my Kel-Tec P3AT since the 2nd generation gun came out. I have no problem with the gun at all, and think its probably as good as a Ruger; just not as slicked up, but all along, the Kel-Tec's clips looked like the guns weak link, and then I made the mistake of adding one of the +1 extensions to what already looked to me like a flimsy clip. Big Mistake.The floorplate broke out of the clip after I'd fired about 10 rounds. The floor plate went one way and the spring the other. I never found either one. Now I wish I'd just left the clip alone. I do have another clip but I've added one of the extensions to that one too, and I suspect it'll break after about ten rounds too.

[Bill DeShivs]

They're magazines, not clips.
Why don't you just take the extension off?

[oldgranpa]

the new P3AT that KelTec is making now is much improved over the earlier ones. The one I now have (had 5 earlier ones) fires everything without any F&B needed, very good accuracy at short range, no laser needed. KT has even fixed the old "smiley" problem, on the one I have at least. The LCP I tried made the worst smileys ever and had lousy accuracy.
Just because you copy somebody else's school work doesn't mean you're going to get an "A".
(especially if you copy it wrong!!)
og

[MW surveyor]

I carry the P-3AT daily in a Blackhawk front pocket holster.

+1 on no electronic sight. At the range that this gun is intended, not needed. Usually can center 7 rounds in 4" circle at 7 yards.

Make sure you run 100 to 200 rounds to make sure that it is reliable, then get some good SD ammo to run.

Do a "fluff and buff", add some electrical shrink tube to the trigger, knock off the rough edges on the flashing, and good to go.

YMMV

Jim