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ohioleadslinger
May 16, 2010, 10:33 PM
To preface this, I am very active with Ohioans for Concealed Carry. Ohio's PAC and lobby on CCW and all gun rights. That said please read this post if you shop at Kroger or just care about CCW rights.
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Policy change has Kroger banning Licensed Concealed Carry. In a abrupt about face Kroger has decided to ban licensed carry at their stores per a email to one of Ohioans for Concealed Carry's coordinators.

Thank you for contacting Kroger. The concealed weapons policy was updated and as of 4/28/10 our policy reads:
"Concealed Weapons - even if you have License to carry still can't carry." I understand your frustrations and I will be forwarding your concerns to our Division office for review. If you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to contact me back. Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us.

Sincerely,

Nicole Belcamino
Consumer Affairs

Reference: 8969xxx

This Ohioans for Concealed Carry contact was prompted by a ousting of a licensee at a Kroger's for printing. Printing isn't illegal in Ohio.

Here is a link (http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg9/bryanthudson/?action=view&current=SCAN0001.jpg) to the letter that Kroger sent the man ejected from the store after he complained about his treatment.

Here is the link (http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=42653) to the OFCC thread on the whole incident up until now.

Please everyone that shops at Kroger contact (https://customer.kroger.com/comments/comments.aspx) them and let them know you will take your business elsewhere should they follow this new policy.

If we flood them like we did back in 2004 with emails they will relent again.

We are getting reports that this new anti CCW policy is not just a regional Division policy. Reports are Dublin Ohio has received this new policy and they are far out of the Cinci Division. Looks like this may be a chain wide.

chexmix
May 16, 2010, 11:49 PM
This is what i wrote Kroger. As much as I hate the State of Ohio:), GO BLUE!!!!, this is uncalled for.


This letter is to inform the Kroger Company that I will be taking my business to Meijer.

I was recently informed that per Kroger policy that LICENSED concealed pistol permit holders are not allowed to carry in Kroger stores.

As a long time Kroger shopper, I am very upset at this change in policy. Does your company really think that changing a policy and posting signs will keep CRIMINALS from bringing guns in to your stores? I believe that shoplifting is against store policy, and the law, but that still continues to happen in your stores.

Until this policy is changed Meijer will be collecting my $400 a month grocery bill.

Steve

ohioleadslinger
May 17, 2010, 06:47 AM
We really need folks to email them into oblivion on this. Economic pressure is what worked before.
We are trying to get a copy of the actual policy from a source that works there and get it out. The need now is urget to get this message out.

Please everyone cross post my original post on your favorite gun local gun forums and keep burying them in emails.

BigV
May 17, 2010, 10:52 AM
ohioleadslinger: Thanks for posting this on The Firing Line!
I have been following the thread on OFCC and it’s very important that we make our thoughts known to Kroger. I sent an e-mail last week and followed up with a snail mail letter today. If we hit them where it counts (the pocket book) we will have an impact on their bottom line.

I for one am damn tired of companies trampling or rights and I for one will not take it any more.
I urge everyone to get involved and contact Kroger to voice their displeasure with the new policy!

Don P
May 17, 2010, 11:02 AM
If you do enter the store carring concealed how are they to know? All they can do is ask you to leave the property. Don't ask don't tell I say.
As it is no one should know if you are concealed carry if done right.

Mike Irwin
May 17, 2010, 11:25 AM
It would appear that this move affects not just Ohio Krogers, but stores in all states where CCW is legal.

Krogers are moving closer to where I live in Virgina, but I don't shop there as it's out of the way.

Given this, I won't be shopping there.

ncpatriot
May 17, 2010, 11:30 AM
I'm surprised to hear this. Our nearby Kroger isn't posted, as of the last few days.

ohioleadslinger
May 17, 2010, 11:35 AM
New information coming in from OFCC member:

Just received a phone call from Kroger. The woman I spoke with said that only the Mid-Atlantic Division and the Cinci division will be posting their stores. This is in response to some incident (she could not tell me what) that occurred in one of the stores. The new policy is for both employees and customers in those stores. In all other stores legal carry of fireams is fine. The head of those divisions made the call. This is being posted here and BFA
(
Informational:

Kroger Limited Partnership I (Mid-Atlantic division)
3631 Peters Creek Rd.
Roanoke, VA 24019-4002
540-563-3500
Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, Ohio


Kroger Limited Partnership I (Cincinnati division)
150 Tri-County Parkway
Cincinnati, OH 45246
513-782-3300
Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana

ohioleadslinger
May 17, 2010, 12:02 PM
I think its now a matter of calling and emailing them. The fact that words they used "ONLY" is used, pi**** me off even more. Divide and conquer folks.

ohioleadslinger
May 17, 2010, 01:35 PM
I just got off the phone with Kroger and I can confirm this is their new policy in the Mid Atlantic and Cinci divisions. I registered a complaint and they said a rep will call back. Everyone needs to call and email and snail mail them.

Glenn E. Meyer
May 17, 2010, 02:07 PM
So someone was stupid in this region. I guess the other regions don't have scary or stupid people?

Great logic. Point that out. They are saying Ohio folks don't have it together with gun totin', like other regions.

Of course, if they ban in all their regions, I take no responsibility for this idea. :p

WoofersInc
May 17, 2010, 02:28 PM
I'm in Vegas. The stores here owned by Kroger, are Smith's. They don't have signs posted and it would be meaningless if they did. Under state law signs have no legal weight. All they can do is ask me to leave if they do find out I am carrying.

However if treated like the person in the link I would definitely be having something to say to corporate.

I sent an E-mail anyway to Kroger. They may ignore me though since I don't live in the affected area..

ohioleadslinger
May 17, 2010, 06:38 PM
Stand by...Amazing what a few thousand emails will do to get a change in a change of policy...I'll be posting their response as soon as we have official copy..

Head-Space
May 17, 2010, 06:52 PM
Just to stir the pot a bit, Kroger locally (Fred Meyer) defines "service animal" as a "seeing eye dog" -- That's NOT the definition according to American's With Disabilities Act.

ADA rules prohibit asking a person the nature of their disability. It's fairly easy to prove disabled status. Most social agencies provide ID. Then, "any animal which provides any service to a disabled person" is considered a "service animal."

No registration, certification, licensing. The owner is responsible for the behavior of the animal, liable for the animal. "Reasonable accommodation" must be provided by law, and the animal cannot be barred from any area which is generally accessible to the public.

Kroger, as a private property owner, has the right to bar CCW, but service animals are regulated by federal law, Dept. of Justice, and ADA.

So -- Because sometimes I get assertive -- I'm thinking CCW AND a service animal, just because Kroger needs to get the message. :D

"Shall not be infringed" and all that.

ohioleadslinger
May 17, 2010, 07:38 PM
This is our coordinator with OFCC quoted from another forum, he is referring to Andy (ahudson) who this whole thing was all about,

Just got a phone call from Andrew and it looks like we have won. Kroger corporate called his wife saying they were overwhelmed with the response, we are melting their phone lines, tying up the computers and they want this over. He told her we can carry but the gun must be concealed. So it sounds like they are ready to capitulate. I will look forward to seeing the letter they send him to that effect.

Thanks to all who made the calls and wrote, it looks like your actions have won the day!

Still, they want no more OC and that pi***** me off. He wasn't OC'ING!

ANYHOW Everyone you all did it! We all pulled it together and made them see there is a force to be reckoned with and its name is Gun Culture.

maestro pistolero
May 18, 2010, 02:35 AM
That was fast. Their policy in Ohio would have negatively effected them nationally. Example: I'm in Vegas and I would have stopped all shopping at Smith's. That's many thousands of dollars per year from just this one, two person household. Good move, Kroger. Best thing to do when you've made a grave error in judgment is reverse course immediately. Let them try to ban open carry here or AZ. They'll get the same reaction. Voting with my wallet is fun!

M4Sherman
May 18, 2010, 09:14 AM
I have heard of stores banning employees from carrying weapons (knifes,guns pointy sticks) but I have never heard of a chain as large as Kroger having a policy change that disallows customers to carry anything as long as they where legal to do so

ohioleadslinger
May 18, 2010, 10:31 AM
Sigh, they are still putting out a flawed new revised policy..

They are saying they must post because of the D license for wine tasting events.

NOT TRUE

They have D6 and D8 licenses and those have exemption for CC if we are not tasting. Its clear in ORC 2923.121.


KEEP calling and emailing folks. I'm sorry it looks like it was premature to call victory.

They are posting because of their flawed interpretation of Ohio liquor law. SO they say but we have information that they are using this as a cover for the initial reason they did the policy change.

In any event this is my response back to Kroger CYA email they sent me today.
Dear Sir,
There is some clarification that we are trying to distribute concerning the Concealed Weapon policy. Concealed weapons are not allowed in establishments with Class D Liquor licenses that serve alcohol. Those store should have that posted. Other stores that do not serve alcohol will allow concealed weapons to be carried. Signs should not be posted at those establishments. Weapons that are not clearly concealed and are brought to a store’s notice, the carrier of the firearm can be asked to leave the premises.

Timothy Titus
Kroger Customer Relations
Dear Mr. Titus,

It seems there has been an error in interpretation by your compliance department of section 2923.121 of the ORC in regards to prohibition of licensed concealed carry in class D establishments .

The law reads as follows:

2923.121 Possession of firearm in liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions.

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming liquor in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

(B)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(e) Any person who is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued to the person by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code and who possesses the firearm in a retail store with D-6 and D-8 permits issued for that store under sections 4303.182 and 4303.184 of the Revised Code or a D-8 permit issued for that store under section 4303.184 of the Revised Code, as long as the person is not consuming liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

So as you can clearly see, someone in compliance has put you in an untenable position with regards to the actual law.

I am certain this misunderstanding and unfortunate protest resulting from a flawed interpretation of the law by Kroger can be worked out.

Until this issue is resolved I’m sure the protest will continue.

I am available to discuss it further at any time. Please feel free to call me and I’m sure we can get past this unfortunate trouble.

Sincerely

ncpatriot
May 19, 2010, 12:45 AM
I called Kroger HQ this morning. The rep was very cordial, said he'd talked with some OH guys. He said he didn't show a post in their system from the people in charge of our area. I told him Kroger would lose our 400 to 600 dollar business each month if they disallow carry in our stores. We have other supermarkets and pharmacies that would love our business.

johnwilliamson062
May 19, 2010, 01:12 AM
Guess I have to send another mail. had some friends send also. Will push a few more to send this time around.

I can OC in all their competitors stores. I won't go back if they just capitulate on CCW.

rcurry
May 19, 2010, 08:09 AM
Thanks for keeping us updated on this incident. (I just sent an e-mail showing support from the Kentucky area.) I guess every little e-mail helps with rectifying senseless restrictions on law abiding gun owners.

ohioleadslinger
May 19, 2010, 09:59 AM
We are still waiting on an official response and the protest is still in effect. Keep emailing and calling everyone.

ncpatriot
May 20, 2010, 09:43 AM
I talked to the head pharmacist at Kroger yesterday when I got medicine. She hadn't heard of the issue. Said she tried to say in the loop on corporate news/policy. She did say, "who will know if you have it concealed?" I explained the issues that could present, trouble we could get into. She understood that. She is going to ask around. I have 2 customer comments posted on their site, haven't heard back from them yet.

What is everyone's thinking here? Should we all boycott them because they are wrong in 1 state? Or should we be loyal to the ones that allow us to carry? Maybe each ccw holder speak to manager after each visit, thank him for the respect and tell how much we bought that visit? Feedback to HQ with numbers might mean something to them and cause them to rethink.

We are more than a few but not a large enough group to shut them down by staying away. But we are enough people and $ to move the sales revenues up or down a few points.

Like to hear from everyone, especially people in central NC. Let's see how much we collectively spend at Kroger stores in a week or month. Kroger is our main store; we spend 400 to 600 each month, sometimes more.

ohioleadslinger
May 20, 2010, 11:20 AM
My feeling is we supported Starbucks because they stood up to the anti's. Why shouldn't we pull together and protest this. I don't care much for Starbucks but I buy at least a Venti Cafee Mocha a week now to supoort them.

ohioleadslinger
May 20, 2010, 01:03 PM
The protest is still going. Now Kroger is telling anyone outside the Cinci Division that emails to complain that this is over two OC incidents, not true. If you email them and are within the Cinci Division customer base, they are saying its about class D liquor license also not true. So which is it and why the two different reasons depending on where the complaint comes from??

Kroger, do you really think we are stupid and we do not share information?

Keep the pressure on...

twhidd
May 20, 2010, 02:32 PM
Disappointing. In Georgia, Kroger's Atlanta division has been a corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.org (our grass roots right-to-carry organization). I wonder if it has changed corporate wide.

WARRIOR I
May 20, 2010, 03:21 PM
But it sounds like most of them are on the right track, twhidd. Our local group (Grassroots Gunrights) has been very successful in persuading businesses who post to remove the signs, and I always contact them
immediately when I see one. (Personally, I'm just too p*****off to even speak to a manager when I see these signs.)

Double Naught Spy
May 20, 2010, 05:04 PM
This Ohioans for Concealed Carry contact was prompted by a ousting of a licensee at a Kroger's for printing. Printing isn't illegal in Ohio.

Still, they want no more OC and that pi***** me off. He wasn't OC'ING!

You still don't get it, do you? No printing is not illegal and open carry is legal, but that doesn't mean that Kroger wants to see people walking around with guns. It isn't an issue about whether or not it is against the law.

He wasn't OCing? No, he wasn't. He was printing so badly that the presence of his gun was discerned by people in the store. It may not have been open carry, but it sure the heck wasn't properly concealed.

As noted in the original thread, if you are going to carry concealed, then make sure the gun is concealed. If it isn't fully concealed, then folks will notice and if they notice, they may choose to act ... which is what Kroger has done.

ohioleadslinger
May 20, 2010, 07:27 PM
Double Naught there is no law regarding "Conceal Properly" in Ohio. Your saying that one must keep a gun concealed at all costs. That's simply absurd and right down Brady Lane.

Doesn't it seem a little odd they are saying its for one reason to everyone outside the Division yet everyone in the Division they are saying its all about the D liquor issue? Why do you suppose that is? Do you like being lied to by a business and do you like them purposefully misstating the law to justify it when hundreds of people keep showing them that the law isn't what they are saying.

They won't say its because of OC here as they know protests are sure to happen when you flout state law. No chance of that happening out side the Division because the policy doesn't affect them. If they maintain the "I'm sorry the law says we have to post because of our D8 license" in the Division then they can deny they are going against state law on OC knowing full well that D8 isn't a prohibition.

ohioleadslinger
May 21, 2010, 10:04 PM
Call backs are happening from Kroger top brass to OFCC. Keep up the pressure folks. Perhaps we can get this resolved soon. Until then keep calling and keep emailing.
Following from OFCC coordinator from OFCC forums:



OK, I'll be honest, that was simply to grab your attention and offer up a plea - don't let up. I can't go into detail, but I'm hoping that by sometime Monday I can offer up a definitive "Yea" or "Nay" on this situation. I have been able to talk to a few people in K's HQ that are generally sympathetic to us (whose names shall forever be protected by me), and just missed a callback (what can I say? ...even NavyChief has to do something to keep food on the table...) from someone that may have the power to make this whole situation go away - I'm off Monday, so even if I have to wait for a callback, no biggie.

In the meantime, let's take Admiral David Farragut's most famous quote to heart...

johnwilliamson062
May 21, 2010, 11:02 PM
What is everyone's thinking here? Should we all boycott them because they are wrong in 1 state? Or should we be loyal to the ones that allow us to carry?
These are franchises that probably cross state lines. What am i supposed to do, look up every stores franchise then contact that franchises office for their carry policy? I don't think so. I will just assume they are all part of the banning franchises.
It seems, and I don't have a reliable source for this, but the rumor mill produces:

A guy was in kroger with a young child. Picked up young child and was holding them in one arm. young child pulled on the shoulder of the fathers shirt and untucked the shirt at the waste. Someone saw a pistol. It was NOT OC and it was not printing before the child pulled on his shirt.

To state again, the child pulled on the shirt around the shoulder and was nowhere close to the gun. At least that is what the rumor mill says.

Stiofan
May 22, 2010, 12:40 AM
Kroger is one of the largest corporations in the US. They operate over 2,400 grocery stores, 750 convenience stores and 370 jewelry stores. They are not franchises, they are all corporate owned. Their headquarters are in Ohio.

http://www.thekrogerco.com/

ohioleadslinger
May 22, 2010, 08:49 AM
Corporate has taken notice and the calls an emails have started a dialog so it is working. Keep it up.

Kroger has Divisions a while they say its a Division thing they have been giving two very different reasons for the policy depending on where the compliant originates. That tells me its a run around if not a flat out lie. They are giving each reason based on their idea of what will quell the complaint at that local.

Do you like being lied to? I don't and no one else should.

hogdogs
May 22, 2010, 09:30 AM
I think I need to contact the Fl. panhandle owned outfit, "Tom Thumb" as I noticed any "private label" generic type goods are from the Kroger bunch...

Will call corporate Monday and ask that they contact Kroger and ask of this issue before i start slingin' mud and stirring the pot locally.

Brent

Javelin Man
May 23, 2010, 06:30 AM
Keep up the pressure, guy! We appreciate all the help you have given us in the Buckeye State. Remember, if it goes through here, it may extend to your part of the world.

gyvel
May 23, 2010, 07:08 AM
For all of you fellow Arizonans, Kroger owns Fry's.

ohioleadslinger
May 23, 2010, 02:20 PM
Call and complain no matter where you are.

maestro pistolero
May 23, 2010, 06:29 PM
For all of you fellow Arizonans, Kroger owns Fry's.Good to know.

johnwilliamson062
May 23, 2010, 08:15 PM
Worked the BFA booth at the OGCA gun show in Wilmington over the weekend and told almost everybody I talked to about it. Asked them to contact Kroger and let them know they weren't happy.

ohioleadslinger
May 23, 2010, 10:42 PM
I was working OFCC table right across from ya on Sunday.

TXGunNut
May 23, 2010, 11:34 PM
Good luck, would be an empty threat on my part. I don't shop @ my local Krogers. If I did, I'd applaud their local policy, not give them grief over the actions of another region.

rjrivero
May 24, 2010, 10:46 PM
I sent them an email. I got this reply today:
Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with our Conceal Carry policy. Please know that our company follows state laws regarding this issue and policies may vary depending on the laws of the state in which you reside. For customers shopping in our Columbus Division stores, the policy is as follows:



· Employees are not allowed to carry weapons while on duty, with the exception of armed security and Police officers.

· We do not post ‘no weapons’ signs.



I hope this information is helpful to you and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify the policy for you. Should you have any additional comments or questions, please let me know.

I sent a follow up question:
Ms. Blanton,

Thank you for the time of your reply. I am not sure if you are aware, but Ohio is an OPEN CARRY state as well. It is NOT against the law for a citizen to carry a handgun properly holstered and uncovered.

Is there a policy on OPEN carry in your stores?

Thank you in advance.I will keep you up to date on any further communication.

maestro pistolero
May 25, 2010, 12:40 AM
Please know that our company follows state laws regarding this issue and policies may vary depending on the laws of the state in which you reside.Wow. Starbucks may have set a nice precedent. Now if they will just actually follow that policy.

johnwilliamson062
May 25, 2010, 02:12 AM
I was working OFCC table right across from ya on Sunday.
THe guy you were working with knew one of the guys at our table and walked over to talk to him. He told us you were PGWP. I was going to walk over and have a chat, but next thing I knew your table was all packed up and you guys were long gone:)

I received the same reply as others indicating they can't allow CCW in places with D licenses and that they can't allow OC at all without really specifying if that is due to state law or just their policy.

I pretty much copy and pasted someone else's reply including the excerpt of the law and sent it to them.

maestro pistolero
May 25, 2010, 12:55 PM
Same thing in my mailbox today:
Dear Mr. ********:

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with our Conceal Carry policy. Please know that our company follows state laws regarding this issue and policies may vary depending on the laws of the state in which you reside. I have shared your comments with the Regional Office for further review. Again, thank you for contacting us.



Sincerely,



Amber Sublett
Consumer Affairs

ohioleadslinger
May 25, 2010, 03:55 PM
THe guy you were working with knew one of the guys at our table and walked over to talk to him. He told us you were PGWP. I was going to walk over and have a chat, but next thing I knew your table was all packed up and you guys were long gone

We cut out if there. Didn't raise a dime for the cause or sign any new memberships up. What a dead show to work. Its a great show for collecting but for working it blows. We may not hit that one gain. Its just too hard being in the lobby and getting anyone to stop and listen.

I did Join OGCA though. God I was in old S&W wheelgun heaven!

I did tell everyone that stopped an talked about Kroger.

ncpatriot
May 26, 2010, 12:27 AM
I now have the same e mail reply from Diane Blanton, minus the local references of course. I also spoke to an assistant mgr at our store. He, like the pharmacist, said he did his best to stay in the loop on issues from corporate HQ and around their networks. He had not heard of the OH situation. He said 1 person had OC'd recently here and a lot of customers complained. They asked him to leave and he did so, politely. He personally didn't have an issue with OC or CCW. I told him if Kroger posted signs, it is an invitation to robbery. He agreed 100%. Anyway, sounds like HQ is keeping other regions uninformed. Seems that would be hot news on their grapevine otherwise. I told the asst mgr we spend a lot there and may have to take it elsewhere if Kroger didn't do right by people.

So, you Ohio guys; is OC that common in your state? Can you safely walk the street without being stopped/questioned? I prefer CC but think either should be legal. OC requires greater care to ensure firearm not being snatched, people should carefully deal with that.

LordTio3
May 26, 2010, 09:46 AM
I wrote to Kroger myself and have not received a response in over 2 days now. I made sure to inform them of the local laws and provide sound reasoning as to why this is both an unsafe practice and a poor business move on their part.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the pressure so far. Let's keep it up. If you're a CCW supporter and haven't thrown in yet, just a quick 30 second message about you disagreeing with the policy will help wonders.

Keep up the fight. If we get them to realize that they've ousted themselves on this one, Kroger might recant, wise up, and become the next Starbucks. Somebody's got to do it eventually.

~LT

ncpatriot
May 26, 2010, 08:46 PM
Mine was about 4 days getting a reply. They are not very responsive. Local mgrs here have still not heard of the situation or will not talk about it if they have.

ncpatriot
May 28, 2010, 07:17 AM
I received another e mail, similar to 1st. This one was from Nicole Belcamino. I thanked her and advised that my family spent $257 at Kroger from 5-15 to 5-27, yesterday. Advised further of 1 of our expensive pharmacy meds we get from them first of each month.

Try that with future contacts with Kroger. I'm sure our business would not bankrupt them to lose, but we could still impact the bottom line, stock prices, etc. Corporations do not seek to lose business but to gain it. If each of us reminds them what we spend, someone in HQ is likely keeping a tally.

May not help, couldn't hurt.

I also reminded her that gunowners are among the most law abiding customers they have and that they have nothing to fear from us.

In one of my previous conversations with a local member of management, I said that Kroger would be inviting robberies if they posted against carry. He agreed, off the record, that thugs would be reassured that they had the only guns in the building.

While many of us, often wisely, keep quiet about carrying, sometimes it is wise to tactfully disclose to people in charge. They may be surprised, "I didn't know someone like him carried guns. He's a nice guy and good customer". "I'm surprised he carries a gun. I saw him help an elderly couple with their bags in the parking lot." And so on....

ohioleadslinger
May 28, 2010, 09:26 PM
Well this is a partal win folks. They have relented and have agreed to follow state law in the Cinci Division as it pertains to CC and class D6-D8. OC is another kettle of fish.They are not saying OC is welcome...


Email to our OFCC coordinator
Mr. NavyChief,
Thanks for sharing your concern as it relates to this issue. I have been advised our company will follow state laws regarding the Conceal Carry Policy as you know this law may vary depending on state.
We currently do not post no weapons signs in our stores.

As always contact me if you have any additional questions or concerns.

Thanks,

Pierce ______
Kroger Company
Division Loss Prevention Manager
513-xxx-xxxx
Fax / 513-xxx-xxxx0

Verified via phone follow-up.


It was all the emails no doubt that turned the thing around. All due to good folks here and in all the forums we cross posted this issue on.

I say still keep emailing on the OC as it is lawful in Ohio.

ohioleadslinger
May 28, 2010, 09:38 PM
ncpatriot wrote:

So, you Ohio guys; is OC that common in your state? Can you safely walk the street without being stopped/questioned? I prefer CC but think either should be legal. OC requires greater care to ensure firearm not being snatched, people should carefully deal with that.


Wouldn't say its a common thing but yes people OC here. In fact a guy just won a settlement for being taken down at gun point for OCing in Cleveland Heights.

I OC from time to time when I pump gas or don't feel like slipping on a cover garment in the summer while out and about.

After the wind storm a year and a half ago here the place went nuts with no power. When it came back on it was almost a riot situation at the gas stations. I OC'd when I went up to get fuel for my Geny.

So yep OC has it place and its problems but I support it and do it on occasion.


I suggest anyone that still believes in OC keep emailing Kroger as if they say they will follow state law then OC is lawful.

As it stands now CC is good to go in D-6 D-8 krogers. Just be sure of you local Kroger licenses. They can be found at Ohio Dept of Liquor Controls web site. Search by county then city. Some are D1 and D2 and some C's. This is questionable as to legal carry in Ohio and I personally wouldn't but we just passed SB239 in the state Senate and its headed to the House and this will fix all D establishments if we can get it through hopefully by November.

ohioleadslinger
May 29, 2010, 08:52 PM
This is the story behind the story for those that wanted to know.

http://ohioccw.org/201005294880/kroger-cincinnati-division-backs-off.html

ncpatriot
May 31, 2010, 09:36 AM
Thaks OhioLeadSlinger, here in NC, OC is technically legal but not safe to do out and around. Anyone feeling threatened or intimidated can complain to police. One can be charged with "going armed to terror of the public". I use to see some OC by fisherman, still some by hunters. Don't know of that ever being a problem. Other than that, a few convenience store or gas station clerks. They are pretty safe with it, as they are on their own premises. I'd have to sympathize a little with Kroger, if they get complaints from other shoppers on someone doing OC. They want to be fair to everyone and don't want the frightened shoppers to leave. Hopefully, OC will become more common in more places and fewer people will complain. Don't know to what degree it will happen, but I'd like to see the public in general lose their fear of the mere sight of an armed citizen. In my city, if I OC'd, I would likely be stopped in 10-15 minutes, or as long as it takes for the 1st cop to arrive from the 1st call. Yes, there would be several calls.

ncpatriot
July 16, 2010, 01:14 PM
It's now July 16, and our local Kroger has still not posted against CCW. Any further news from others on this?

stevelyn
July 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
Pffffffffffft.......................... The Kroger owned Fred Meyer's stores in Alaska sell guns. :D

Aguila Blanca
July 16, 2010, 08:08 PM
Pffffffffffft.......................... The Kroger owned Fred Meyer's stores in Alaska sell guns.
Yeah ... but do they let you carry them out of the store? :cool:

big_bad_kitty
July 16, 2010, 10:40 PM
I was in Kroger yesterday in Denton, TX. The one on University Dr (Hwy 380) and there are no signs posting no carry on the front entrance that Texas requires for a business to prohibit CC. If and when Kroger pulls this, I will take my grocery business to Albertson's or Wally World which may not be a lot but is $600 to $800 per month and my gasoline and diesel purchases (at the south Denton location) which are another $500 to $600 per month. Then there are the prescriptions that my wife and I both use Kroger for because it is convenient. It will not be convenient if I am not buying groceries and gas and diesel there. I believe the total cost for the meds each month surpasses another $600 per month. Kroger, this is for you. If you want to continue to sell me groceries, gas, diesel and meds at your pharmacy, you best not post your front door as I will not go through it if it is posted in any manner to restrict my right to carry concealed on your premises! Believe it as it is no BS!


:D :D :D :D :D

Double Naught Spy
July 17, 2010, 05:35 AM
I was in Kroger yesterday in Denton, TX. The one on University Dr (Hwy 380) and there are no signs posting no carry on the front entrance that Texas requires for a business to prohibit CC.

Texas law does not require a sign to prohibit concealed carry. It does require a 30.06 sign if they are going to limit concealed carry through signage, but they can limit concealed carry without signage simply through verbal announcement.

Personally, I like the new Kroger on the south side of Denton.

csmsss
July 17, 2010, 08:08 AM
There's a couple of things at play here in Texas. First, if you own a business and wish to exclude CHL's from carrying inside, you only have to make your policy clear - there's no requirement on how you do so - simply having a visible sign that says NO GUNS is more than adequate to allow the police to arrest someone if he/she is observed carrying onsite.

Now, if you operate a business that serves alcohol, and more than 50% of your revenue is derived from sales of alcohol, then CHL's are statutorily prohibited from carrying inside and you are obligated to post the ubiquitous "51" signs at your business establishment, and the language on these is obligatory under TX law.

Double Naught Spy
July 17, 2010, 03:41 PM
There's a couple of things at play here in Texas. First, if you own a business and wish to exclude CHL's from carrying inside, you only have to make your policy clear - there's no requirement on how you do so - simply having a visible sign that says NO GUNS is more than adequate to allow the police to arrest someone if he/she is observed carrying onsite.

Absolutely incorrect. See Texas penal code secion 30.06(c)(3)(a) and (b).

stevelyn
July 18, 2010, 05:09 AM
Yeah ... but do they let you carry them out of the store?

I don't know. I've never bought a gun at FM. :confused:

But I carry one in everytime I step inside a FM. :D

jj381
July 23, 2010, 07:59 PM
"but they can limit concealed carry without signage simply through verbal announcement"

"Absolutely incorrect. See Texas penal code section 30.06(c)(3)(a) and (b). "

So simple verbal announcement is OK but just a sign that says NO GUNS is not acceptable and must be done using the correct 30.06 sign?
Sounds a bit iffy to me, especially since we can't expect the owner to announce to every entering customer about the policy. IMHO a sign saying no guns would be the same in practice.

I don't know if that's the case. If a place has a NO GUNS or similar sign, I wouldn't go there. Even if it's not illegal, the owner is already telling me he's against it and I would agree to his wishes, after telling him that I'm not coming in and not giving him my business until he takes of that sign. Of course large corporations are more complex.

ClayInTx
July 23, 2010, 11:06 PM
The 30.06 forbids guns; nothing more needed.

Without a 30.06 it is required that the owner or his agent personally contact the gun carrier and ask him to leave. If the gunny leaves, that’s it. If he refuses it becomes criminal trespass.