Mosin Nagant stock old oil/cosmoline removal

[30cal_Fun]

Hello everyone,

I have been wanting to bed the stock of my Mosin 91/30 for some time. I want to keep it as original as possible, so maybe I will order an old take-off stock and use that one, but that's another question.

Problem is, these old stocks aren't exactly clean. So before I can even start thinking about putting any bedding compound in my stock, It needs a clean and dry surface to adhere to. Therefore I need to clean it up first. The inside of this thing is filled with traces of old oil, Cosmoline and likely a lot of Balistol that I use for cleaning my rifle.

So, my question is, how do I get rid of all the gunk that is soaked up in the stock?

Thanks for any input, Louis

[dussandr]

Oven cleaner.

[30cal_Fun]

Sounds like a good option.

Am I right that any product that will clean the stock, will also strip the finish?

[Hardcase]

Yes, that is most likely.

[30cal_Fun]

I have been planning to refinish the stock for some time, so that's no problem.

I want to recreate the old shellac finish as much as possible. But I don't like the fact that, as the barrel heats up during shooting, the shellac starts to "sweat" off.
can I get roughly the same reddish shine to the stripped stock if I use a red stain and tru-oil? I know it will look different, but I think it will have a shiny finish with a red hue to it. and it would be much more durable.

Would red stain and tru-oil proximate anything like the shellac finish?

I have to add, I am a sucker for hand-rubbed dull oil finishes. and I have seen people use tru-oil and tung-oil with great success in refinishing projects with Mosins and the likes.

Louis

[RamSlammer]

I use Formby's furniture refinisher (Gel) on old cosmo'd up stocks. Let it soak in a while then go over with a slightly stiff nylon brush. Even gets gunk out of checkering well. It's acidic, so wear gloves and rinse the stock well afterward. Let it dry 1-3 days (depending on relative humidity). What's left is like new wood.

[30cal_Fun]

never heard of Formby's furniture refinisher, but I can probably get something similar around here.

Thanks for all the advise, Louis

[qcpunk]

If you're just trying to get rid of the wetness from the oil/grease used for surplus storage, you might try some simple Whiting compound. You know, that talcum powder like white powder..... It is Hydroscopic and will pull the moisture to the surface to be cleaned off. That stuff has been used for a LONG time to remove the moisture left behind by these compounds.

[mapsjanhere]

A lot of oven cleaners are lye based, make sure you rinse your gun very well after you use that or the alkaline will eat both your wood and corrode your metal long after you stop thinking about having ever used it. Methylene chloride from Home Depot (use outside, the fumes are NOT healthy) and talcum powder work for me, the evaporating solvent wicks the oils to the surface into the powder.

[Chris_B]

Oven cleaner...still can't understand why this is even an option. It ain't wood cleaner. It's oven cleaner. If it was good for wood refinishing, they'd sell it as a wood refinishing product ;)

I don't understand why chemicals are the first thing everyone reaches for. Wood is held together with a type of natural glue and oven cleaner is most likely going to damage it. Yes sure I've seen many stocks in which the owner uses oven cleaner and swears by it, and everyone ooohs and ahhhs. But what happened to the wood under that pretty finish?

How about starting off gentle and reach for potentially caustic chemicals when easier, less messy, and more health friendly things don't work? Keep the oven cleaner for dirty ovens

Try a hairdryer and some rags to get the cosmo off the wood. Then try some isopropyl alcohol and some rags. The harshest chemical I've found a need to use is mineral spirits

No oven cleaners here, both were filthy military stocks:

M1 carbine
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/m1carbinestock.jpg

M1 rifle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/M1two.jpg

[jsmaye]

Oven cleaner...still can't understand why this is even an option.

Lack of patience.

I don't understand why chemicals are the first thing everyone reaches for.

Lack of patience.

How about starting off gentle and reach for potentially caustic chemicals when easier, less messy, and more health friendly things don't work?

Lack of patience.

I've always been a believer in starting with the mildest, least-powerful (and potentially least-damaging) solvents or cleaners and working up only when necessary. Sure, it may take a couple of tries, but I'm more interested in preserving the wood than getting it stripped and cleaned in an hour.

[madcratebuilder]

Wrap the stock in paper towels and place it in a black garbage bag. Put it in the sun for a few days, the heat wicks the cosmoline out of the wood and the paper towels pick it up. This method is zero damage to the wood.

Follow that up with a hand held steam cleaner and you clean wood and you have raised most of the dents and dings.

[30cal_Fun]

Thanks for all the advise!

If I can do it without to harsh chemicals, then that would be best.
when I have some time on my hands I will try a hairdryer and see how far that gets me. or steam it out with the aid of some talc powder.

I want to leave my original stock alone and use a take-off stock to refinish so that my original one remains unaltered.
but I have hit a bit of a snag here. because apart from an old 1891 stock, I haven't been able to find a replacement Mosin Nagant stock.

Question: would I be able to fit my 91/30 in a 1981 stock? I know the handguard won't fit, but that's easy to to solve (maybe make one myself).

Thanks, Louis

[ks_wayward_son]

I recently have just gotten involved with C&R firearms, and am doing quite a bit of research on the topic of cleaning and restoration also. One of THE most excellent pieces of information I have come across is surplusrifle.com. It is on the left hand side, and I think you click under the heading of General Maintenance or the like. They have a few articles about the removal of cosmoline, one of which involves building your own "easy bake oven." They suggest "low and slow"; as some other guys have suggested...low heat, slow removal...but with results. You might give it a go. Plus, they have tons of helpful advise about how to disassemble/assemble many surplus rifles.

[30cal_Fun]

Yes, I know surplus rifle.com, I post there to. I got some good reactions, and there are some good posts about it to. I just wanted to know if there was any method to get the crud out of the stock without damaging the finish to much.

but since that question has been answered: Does anyone think an 1891 stock will fit a 91/30 stock without to much trouble?

Thanks, Louis

[qcpunk]

I just recently purchased a Mosin as well. Fortunately my stock wasnt too stained with grease and oil. A simple wash with soapy water and a rag was more than sufice in my situation. But of course, with MilSurplus, every situation can be vastly different.

[HvyMtl]

another option is placing in a trash bag and putting in the attic for a few days, swapping out the trash bag periodically. make sure it hangs in a matter that the wood is suspended and it does not sit in the "runoff" collected. I think the adding of the paper towels, mentioned earlier will help too.

Remember Cosmoline was added by a heating process, so it sounds logical that subtracting by a heating process would work.

[TriumphGuy]

I agree with the suggestions to heat it. I use a heat gun on the lowest setting and very slowly warm it up until the gunk loosens enough to wipe up. I'm not a fan of oven cleaner, but I don't think a brushing of mineral spirits will hurt much.

[rangerman40]

Mine wasn't too totally covered in Cosmo so I used Murphy's Oil Soap for hardwood floors. All natural, worked great, and I could drink the stuff If I wanted to. Doesn't get much less caustic than that.

[Fullthrottle]

30calfun: I posted this in another thread, and will say it again here.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/cosmoline/index.asp
This was the method I used for my M38 Mosin Nagant. It worked well using the "Shark handheld steam cleaner", spent a couple hours cleaning the cosmo off the rifle and the stock, with no harm to the shellac. You may be able to find another brand in your country, but should work the same. I think I paid $50.00usd for it.........and hell it has other uses too(that is what I told my wife)....and it does.

Just remember to properly oil the rifle afterwards, because you will have removed all other forms of protection with the steam!

[30cal_Fun]

your article is very helpful Fullthrottle, I have it saved. but you use your SKS as an example, and almost exclusively talk about the metalwork. but I am purely cleaning my stock here, no metal parts involved (except maybe the guard and stock end caps). Other people in this thread are also posting about using soapy water or boiled water.

But I am a bit worried that my stock will get too soaked and will be so wet that it will have to dry for a long time or even worse, warp or crack. water isn't exactly the best friend of a wooden stock. All the methods that use water to a big extent have this problem. I don't care if I strip off the finish, I want to do that anyway, but I want to keep the wood in a good state as much as possible.

I was thinking like a hairdryer set to it's highest (the 2000W should do it), the hot air will probably get the cosmoline and old oil to melt out. I think that's also what Triumphguy meant.

Louis

[TriumphGuy]

I think that's also what Triumphguy meant.

Pretty much. A heat gun is just a hair dryer on steroids, made to heat things other than hair.

[cougar gt-e]

Go to the auto parts store and buy some dry product for getting oil off concrete floors. Typically called "floor dry" or something like that. Looks like a finer kitty litter.

Pack the stock in it completely covering it and let it sit in the hot sun or in the attic or in the oven at the lowest setting (only safe when the wife is gone !!!).

It will take a week or so, depending on temps and how bad it was absorbed. If you have the time, pack it and stick it in the attic for the summer. It will be good as new in the fall.

jb

[30cal_Fun]

I haven't seen or heard anywhere here about the "fine kitty litter" or similar, but I'm sure I can find something like that.

I haven't been able to find a replacement stock for it so when I use my own, I will first try the hairdryer/heatgun and then see if I need the kitty litter.

Thanks for all the tips and advise, Louis

[Fullthrottle]

30calfun: Steam or boiling water?! Both H2o The differance is STEAM goes away quickly boiled water stays for a bit! I used the steam meathod on my M38 stock as well. No problems with it. Steam dissapates quickly! No damage to the wood, just a quick way to eliminate cosmoline from my stock!

[30cal_Fun]

oke, good to know that, I was worried for a moment that the steam would also leave to much moisture behind.

[olyinaz]

I think you have to be more specific about your goals.

For example, if all you're trying to do is degrease the action and barrel channel, as you originally stated, then a firearms degreasing spray that is similar to brake or circuit cleaner (it's mostly light volatiles - we have several products here with the most common being GunScrubber: http://www.cabelas.com/p-0037557227899a.shtml ) works great. All you have to do is first brush these areas out with a toothbrush and some bore cleaner (in other words something thin to losen it all up) and then hose it all out with the spray cleaner. These sprays are designed to dry almost instantly and leave behind no residue. The fluid that washes out will amaze you (it'll be brown and full of gunk) and it'll also be toxic and terrible for the environment so I would suggest having some paper towels to catch it and then burning those as the least offensive way to get rid of this stuff.

Here is a link to a brake cleaner at my friend's store (I picked UK but they have stores in Scandanavia also):

http://www.clasohlson.co.uk/Product/Product.aspx?id=137348490

That product is very similar to GunScrubber but it is not finish or plastics safe.

This product is more similar to "polymer safe" GunScrubber but I still don't vouch for it safety regarding older finishes such as shellacs and varnishes etc.:

http://www.clasohlson.co.uk/Product/Product.aspx?id=137348148

So there, that's a lot of info about simply getting some grease out and having a dry surface that will take to resins and epoxies etc.

Now, if you don't care to save the shellac or varnish (and/or actually want to remove it) then a plain old furniture stripper will work just fine! Go to a wood working store or a hardware store and get some stripper, some scrub pads or steel wool, and have at it. A few minutes later you'll have all of it loosened up and ready to wipe off with paper towels. You'll still need to wipe down the stock with some sort of spirit or solvent however in order to get all of the stripper off. Mineral spirits work just fine but others have recommended turpentine to be even less damaging to wood. It's pretty stinky though!

If, on the other hand, you're simply trying to get all of the cosmoline/grease out as well as clean it up, I find that unboiled (unprocessed or raw) linseed (flaxseed) oil actually works great! It's expensive, but if you really slather it on, hit any nooks and crannies with a tooth brush, and then wipe it all back off with rags you will not only lift/wash off a lot of junk (the rags will come away black or really dirty) you'll condition and preserve/protect your stock at the same time. Works great but do bear in mind that raw linseed oil takes weeks to "dry" so your stock will weep a bit of oil for a week or so and you'll want to wipe it down with a rag daily until it stops weeping so as not to mess up your domicile. :D

Hope this has been helpful! I'm going to get started on a Mauser M24/47 today that I snagged from Big 5 Sporting Goods for $199 yesterday. It's pristine and looks to have a brand new bore so I'm excited to get it cleaned up and out to the range.

You've been doing this for awhile I know so I'm interested in how you get rid of the dirty (and dangerous) rags in Holland? I have a fire pit out back that I incinerate them in [POOF!] because I don't want them to catch fire in my trash or garage but I'm curious if you can do that where you live?

Best,
Oly

[30cal_Fun]

Hi Olyinaz,

This is EXACTLY all the information I needed. Thanks!

I am sure that I want to get all the junk out off the stock.
But I haven't decided whether I'm going to refinish my stock or use a take-off stock for that because I haven't been able to find one. I will keep searching for some time because I would like to keep my rifle as original as possible, but if I can't find one, it doesn't have any special markings so then I will use this one.
So I needed information on all the options.

About the dirty rags, we have public waste containers down the street, so I just dump it in and it gets emptied within one or two weeks. (you got to love the waste management here :P) a lot of things probably went down that hatch that couldn't bare the daylight :D

Thanks everyone for all the information. I have a good picture of what I can do now.

Louis

[olyinaz]

Great! Have fun and don't forget to show us the end result. :)

Best,
Oly

[essohbe]

(it's mostly light volatiles - we have several products here with the most common being GunScrubber:"


Exactly what I used. Worked just fine!

[30cal_Fun]

Great! Have fun and don't forget to show us the end result.
I will see for some time if I can still get a replacement stock.
But if I go for it, I will post pics of it.

[HvyMtl]

You want a to Sportster or "original design" replacement stock?

Typically a Sportster stock runs $60ish - $99ish or more - typically from "Advanced Technology"

Example:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/mosin-nagant-replacement-stock.aspx?a=119809

Removes the issue of cosmoline by fully replacing the stock.

As for buying an actual other 91/30 wood stock - well - look for a cheap - poor condition 91/30. Or a wood shop or cabinetry maker might make you one, but expect to pay $.

[30cal_Fun]

I don't feel anything for a (synthetic) sporter stock.
I want an original 91/30 stock to refinish.

[Brasky]

Krud Kutter and hot water. 100% bio friendly, non-toxic and will eat everything off your stock but the wood.

I've used this method twice with great results

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p21MKDi3r8o&feature=related

[HvyMtl]

Here is one place that sells Mosin wood stocks. There are others out there.

http://www.buymilsurp.com/mosin-nagant-mosin-nagant-stocks-handguards-c-2_10.html

NOTE: I have not used these guys, but they seem to have a good selection.

[Novalondon]

Having used about all of the above posts at one time or another, there is something you need to know up front. Using water to help clean your stock makes it mandatory for you to let the stock dry slowly inside, not in the garage or the backyard in the sun. These old beechwood or even walnut stocks found on some Mosins will crack and split if let dry to quickly. I have a couple in my shop that were brought in for repairs after letting them dry in the sun.
Enjoy the rifle and for what it is worth, As new, all Mosins were just oiled stocks when issued out to the troops. The redish varnish is Russian refurb and the rest are from other countries that snatched them off the battlefields or were a surrendered weapon on capture.
On an M1 Garrand forum I am on I got a mixture used to rub out these old stocks. From Walnut to Beechwood and any other wood stock this works superbly and makes them repel water, finger and hand oils and gives the old rifle a low sheen , just like when new. Keep the spouse happy and wait until she is not home as the smell is strong when heating this up.
In a small sauce pan mix the following over a low heat. Equal amounts of bees wax, turpentine and Tung oil. Melt the bees wax ( I used a 1 pound piece) and slowly mix all the parts together as one. Get a small cookie tin or something with a lid and pour this into it and let it cool. My tin is about 3 inches deep and 5 inches across. I have been using this batch for a few years and I know I have rubbed out at least 25 stocks. I have still not used a third of it yet.
Once cool and your stock is at hand do the following.
Take of any rings you may have on and get a dab on about 3 finger tips and start rubbing it in in a circular motion or a straight line, whichever you prefer. After getting it all smoothed in now use your palm and rub it a little harder so the friction gets warm. This action causes the mix to get into the grain and seal out moistures and oils. Do this to the entire stock and repeat it until your tired. The more you do it the more it protects and seals the wood.
After your done rubbing it in use a silicone cloth and rub the entire stock in a polishing fashion. After you have gotten the sheen to come up set the stock aside for the night and and let it harden. Tomorrow you will have a beautiful stock, not shiney, not flat but just as the way it was when it was new. Best of all it is now pretty much water proofed and oil resistant from body oils and will keep its lusture for a long time.:cool:

[SainthoodDenied]

The last one I picked up was an unaltered model 91 and it was covered and packed in grease so I took it apart and put the metal pieces in the oven on the lowest setting and sweated it out and the stock I wrapped in newspapers and then in a black garbage bag and laid it on the dash of my truck which faces the sun all afternoon.
I'd take it out every night and wipe it down and replace with dry news paper and in a few days it had pulled all the grease and gunk out of the stock and you could see a big difference then before doing anything else to it.

[30cal_Fun]

Thanks for all the tips.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what to do with my stock now.

The biggest problem I have is that after some shooting the barrel barrel heats up and the stock starts to "sweat". I think that is some of the cosmoline they used when this stock was refurbished. I guess simple heat has been the key all along :rolleyes:
When I have time on my hands and when I find a replacement stock, I will post how I did it and the results, but that will be a month or two at least, first I have to get through this year of college.

Thanks everyone, for all the kind tips and how-to's that you have posted here, It will be very helpful when I start refinishing my stock.

Kind regards, Louis