Opinions on lasers & lights on pistols

[bamiller]

Contemplating putting a laser or a laser/light combo on my pistol and was wondering what forum posters thought of this. One downside I've heard is that it gives the BG a point of aim.

[Oldjarhead]

The type of setup you are talking about works well as a HD weapon. For CCW though, a light and a laser might be a difficult to carry. Lasers and lights are good tools, but should not take the place of basic fundamentals of sight alignment and sight picture. Under stress in low light situations, they are very good tools. In a gunfight, only the hard trained warrior, who uses his/her sights on a regular basis will be disciplined enough, to use the sights anyway. Studies show most people concentrate their eyes with there arms and gun thrust out towards the threat, rather than looking at the sights anyway, so yes I think they are a good tool, but train, train, train, and don't exclusively depend on lasers and lights. After all they may fail you. If you do put them on your gun, check them daily to make sure the batteries are good.

Many US Police departments and and the US military use lasers and lights, on their guns, so they are good to have.

[grumpa72]

I had a guy at the range, a brand new, never-owned-a-gun kind of guy, who was shooting his new pistol and we got to talking. He was going to put a laser aiming system on his pistol and asked my opinion. I told him that first and foremost you need to be V E R Y comfortable with your gun, be able to shoot it comfortably and hit what you are aiming at. I then said that once you have shot several hundred (thousand?) rounds then I might consider a laser. Just my two cents here but he did ask my opinion. In his case, he had better hope that the BG is very big! ;) He still needed a lot of practice.

[69MachOne]

For everyday carry I would vote no. I have a combo unit on my nightstand gun but carry a novatac mini along with my Kimber Ultra. I have had internal pulsating & Crimson Trace grips on various guns. They can be a deterrant, most thugs will run when red dotted :D & if you have a cat.....

[sholling]

You didn't mention what handgun you were going to mount this to but in general I don't like combination devices on handguns. But rather than get into that let's look at the utility of lights and lasers.

It sounds like you've figured out that it might be nice to have a light handy while checking for bumps in the night and you're right. But, and this is important - do you really want to be muzzle sweeping family and pets while sweeping the room with your weapon mounted light? The short answer is heck no! A weapon mounted light is a secondary light and you use a hand held flashlight in your weak hand to sweep the room. Your weapon mounted light is a nice secondary light for illuminating a bad guy held at gunpoint while you fumble for a light switch or a phone with your weak hand.

Lasers are a different animal. Contrary to the movies you don't flip them on and leave them on. That's why I like Crimson Trace grip mounted lasers. A slight squeeze of your hand and a dot appears to confirm your aim or to let you confirm rough aim when there isn't time to bring the weapon up to eye level. Quick on and right back off. A laser is not a substitute for sights and you need to do 90% of your practice with the laser off.

[KurtC]

You're going to get a lot of mis-information on this subject, both pro and con, from folks with little experience it this matter. The important thing is that you learn "how" to use the light properly.

Unless you are ninja, the bad guy already knows where you are by sound. He doesn't care where a miss goes, so he is just going to saturate your direction with gunfire. It doesn't matter if the light is on your gun or in your hand a foot to your side.

You don't have to point your gun in order to use the light on it. You keep your gun pointed downwards in the ready position, and there is more than enough indirect light to see everything in the room.

The light doesn't have to be on steady. You flash the light, using a momentary switch, only when needed.

Most defensive handgun training incorporates the use of weapon mounted lights, including qualification courses. I suggest getting professional instruction if at all possible. It is amazing how much the light can be utilized to your advantage.

I use a powerful 150 lumens light with a red lens, so that it doesn't affect my night vision.

[lambertsteeth]

IMHO, weapon mounted lights are not for me. They are cumbersome and not a real advantage over a hand held.
A set of Crimson Trace grips is a good thing. They should not be used as your primary aiming device. Practice alot with your gun sites. Being proficient with gun sights is far more difficult than with the red dot.
My everyday carry gun has CT grips on it. During a typical trip to the range, I probably use the dot 25 to 50 rounds (out of @300 to 400 rounds). I prefer to practice the more difficult skill.
I will say, the dot can be a useful tool to practice trigger control. Watching the dot while you squeeze the trigger is a very good indicator as to whether you are pulling the shot.
The only disadvantage I can think of with the CT is I like a nice set of Hogue grips on alot of my guns. I can't get that nice soft grippy feeling with my hard plastic CT grips.

[hdawson228]

I'm very happy with the Crimson Trace laser on my Kahr CW9 carry piece. She's dressed in a Mitch Rosen leather.:cool:

[KevinBeyerJr]

I currently have a led light next to my pistol, but I was starting to get discouraged with the prices offered for a light/laser combo that you can mount on your rail of a pistol until, a neighbor of mine gave me a flyer advertising for this website/brand:
http://www.hellfireusa.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product.html&setup=1&ida=18&idp=0&his=0&cart_id=5220336.6776

I am used to seeing them for $250-$300, mostly for just lights, but this company has both for $170 and it works great with both his pistol and AR.

[bamiller]

Thanks for all the info. I actually have two situations as follows:

1) I have a Kahr PM9 that I use for carry (in pocket). Considering putting the Crimson Trace laser on that. I have found a pocket holster that accomadates the PM9 w/the Crimson and a second mag. Pros and Cons of that?

2) For my night stand/home defense gun I have a Sig P220R Carry. Considering putting a light OR a light/laser combo on it. Pros and Cons of that? I currently have a small tactical flashlight with a momentary switch in the night stand with the pistol. The downsides I could see with this setup is in a stressful situation it's that much more to think about and I would be shooting with my strong hand only (light in the other) versus being able to have both hands on the weapon with a rail mounted laser/light combo.

[NJgunowner]

Well, if you get the laser and you run out of ammo you can always blind him :p

[sholling]

1) I have a Kahr PM9 that I use for carry (in pocket). Considering putting the Crimson Trace laser on that. I have found a pocket holster that accomadates the PM9 w/the Crimson and a second mag. Pros and Cons of that?
No cons. It's a good idea.

2) For my night stand/home defense gun I have a Sig P220R Carry. Considering putting a light OR a light/laser combo on it. Pros and Cons of that? I currently have a small tactical flashlight with a momentary switch in the night stand with the pistol. The downsides I could see with this setup is in a stressful situation it's that much more to think about and I would be shooting with my strong hand only (light in the other) versus being able to have both hands on the weapon with a rail mounted laser/light combo.
I have a light on my home protection pistol but as I said before I use a hand held as my primary. The last thing you want to do is sweep family or an officer investigating a burglary call with your pistol.

[KurtC]

Using a handheld flashlight in cunjunction with a handgun requires more training than a weapon mounted light.

1. You usually use your offhand to not only hold the light, but to support your shooting hand. This means you are still pointing the handgun in the same direction as the light. If you are searching with just the light, you need to train to safely and quickly bring the handgun up to a supported position.

2. If you choose not to support your shooting hand with your light hand, than you need to practice one handed firing while under stress and using the light in your offhand.

Everything is a compromise. You need to choose the method that gives you the most confidence in both identifying and engaging a threat.

[KCabbage]

The laser and/or light is a great addition to a home defense/vehicle weapon.

[TDR911]

As stated , lasers & lights are tools and not to replace training and sight picture.
I agree with KurtC on the amount of light that can be used. When you flash the BG with a super bright light you disturb your night vision as well as his. A subdued light, red or blue, with only enough power to identify your target and surrounding area is all tha is needed. This will not disturb your night vision.
We call them navigational lights.

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/TDR911/glled2.jpg

You can also us a blue hand held light the same way.

[rshanneck2002]

Onething that bothers me about lazers is color, red washes out in daylight to the extreme,green is much,much better but the companys who produce these lazers seem to produce many more in the red spectrum. Anybody who uses a lazer at all knows this. This all being said lazers to me are for HD for a private citizen, made for close quarter combat as a civilian and hopefully never to be used for anything but for peace of mind. Flashlights i prefer in a separate hand as to not draw direct fire on myself.

[amprecon]

When the lights go out and you hear things going bump in the night, it is MUCH easier to use the light already attached to your handgun than to have both hands occupied with gun and light.

[pinetree]

TRD911, nice setup, what brand is that Glock wearing? Very compact. I like it. EDIT - I went to your site and saw the TRD laser, but no combo. Am I mistaken about that laser having blue lights?

[hamr56]

I will echo what others have said...."practice, practice, paractice". Especially if you are a new shooter. I have seen some really bad habits be formed from using laser sights. Plus if you know your gun well if the lasers fail it will not affect you.

With all of that said I personally find that they offer me another option for sight acquisition. I have them on a couple of guns that I have shot for years and personally would not have a personal protection gun without them.

[Sturmgewehre]

I personally have little use for weapon mounted lights and lasers. Lasers aren't of interest to me. Lights are useful but I prefer to have mine in my weak hand vs. mounted to my firearm.

If I'm clearing my home, I don't want to have to cover things with my muzzle to cast light on it... like going into my 1 year old sons room and looking around at 2am. I would rather keep my handgun pointed in a safe direction while I take a peak with my Surefire.

If you're walking around outside investigating a noise and you're pointing your weapon around to cast light, you might find your light illuminating a police officer chasing a suspect. How do you think he's going to respond to you pointing a weapon at him? You might find yourself shot or arrested. Don't think this can't happen, it actually happened to me (discovered a policeman in my yard chasing a car thief who bailed on the car a few blocks away).

[TDR911]

rshanneck2002:
Yes red is less to not visable in bright daylight. Most attacks occur in dim light areas, the red works here. The other reason is that green lasers require much more battery power and drain the battery faster. They are also bulkier, and the price is higher.

pinetree :
Yes you did not see the combo listed yet. Is is available in different options: white, blue, or red lights only. Or lights with laser, or lights only, or laser only. I can also use seperate switches for each option or 1 switch turns it all on. Prices vary. It will be listed in about a month.
But the are available on a custom build basis now.

hamr56 :
My moto: Practice / Practice / Practice: They are a tool and everyone should be extremely effecient with their iron sights and then start working with a laser & light.

Sturmgewehre:
You are correct here in this situation.

If I'm clearing my home, I don't want to have to cover things with my muzzle to cast light on it... like going into my 1 year old sons room and looking around at 2am. I would rather keep my handgun pointed in a safe direction while I take a peak with my Surefire.

If you're walking around outside investigating a noise and you're pointing your weapon around to cast light, you might find your light illuminating a police officer chasing a suspect. How do you think he's going to respond to you pointing a weapon at him? You might find yourself shot or arrested. Don't think this can't happen, it actually happened to me (discovered a policeman in my yard chasing a car thief who bailed on the car a few blocks away).

A flashlight in one hand and a laser on the gun that can be activated when needed??
There are always endless amount of different situations that are out there. Being able to deal with each and every one as it occurs to you, That takes pre-thought and practice on those thoughts. Every one will act and react in different ways.

What makes you comfortable may not be for someone else.

I would say weapon mounted lights are more for Law enforcement and a hand held light is more versital.
My 2 cents anyway.

[hdawson228]

One thing I really like about my Crimson Trace on the Kahr CW9 is that it takes no conscious action to activate. Grab the CW9 grip and the laser turns on instantly. No seperate switch or thought process.:cool:

[TDR911]

There is also an automatic feature as well.
Crimson trace has also come a long way in the last few years. They are adding a lot of good products.

[Sturmgewehre]

What makes you comfortable may not be for someone else.
I don't believe I suggested everyone do what I do. But I agree, do what works for you. If you get killed doing it, you might want to rethink things. :)

I would say weapon mounted lights are more for Law enforcement and a hand held light is more versital.
Yup, weapons mounted lights are definitely better suited for LEO and military work and a free light is certainly more versatile.

[ferrarif1fan]

I'll weigh in here with an opinion. First, you need to think about scenarios in your home that you might be faced with and decide what you think would be best for you. Asking for opinions and advice is great. But all the other people here offering opinions won't be with you at the moment of truth...only you will be. So you need to mull over the opinions here, think about scenarios you might face and how you'd want to respond, then decide what to do.

I'll make a couple of quick points. First, I decided to mount a Streamlight high intensity light on my Beretta PX4 home defense gun. My daughter sleep walks. So, it is an absolute must that I visually, positively identify any potential threats in my home. The thought of using my "night vision" to identify targets is absolutely insane and I certainly wouldn't want to stay over night in the house of any gun owner who did.

Regarding the laser, I have been thinking lately of getting a combo light/lazer for the Beretta instead of just the light. Granted, when I light something up with my light, it is very easy to see the outlines of the front and rear sights. However, I think in a moment of extreme stress, it would be much easier to aim with a red dot on your target rather than trying to line up sights. I will say this however. At in-house distances, if you have someone centered in the beam of your gun light, the probability of hitting them without aiming is pretty high if you don't pull off when you pull the trigger.

One last thing. If I were investigating a noise in my house, I would also be leaving the hammer down on my Beretta and using a double action first shot. That insures that I have to make a deliberate pull of the trigger to fire the weapon. It's just one more safeguard I'd take to make certain I didn't accidently fire when I didn't mean to.

So there's my $.02. I hope you're able to make a decision you're comfortable with.

Robert

[rshanneck2002]

Still prefer green to red,better and faster pickup in my exsperience and i sure dont leave them turned on,paint, shoot and off. I can afford new batterys. this being said, i own both on a couple of handguns and a PLR-16 which sports a green one, zero at 25yds and in the black at 100. Its a .223 cal though. it took me time to adjust to this type of sight system and learn to trust,but i started 4 to 5 yrs ago,i full faith in these system now, hopefully never to be used. Its and edge in speed,thats all.

[Billman730]

I love having laser sights on my pistols. I only use the LaserMax inside the gun type. My carry weapon is a compact Glock 40 cal. It has the LaserMax installed. At the range it is very close sighted 10'-50' and shooting from the hip so to speak is very possible in dark conditions.

At home my bed buddy is a 45 cal XD again with the inboard LaserMax. On this gun I also added an under barrel Surefire light using the rail. This is never a carry and gun and I believe for defense purposes there is no better way to carry a powerful flashlight.

With a mounted light your trigger finger is already in position finger extended alongside the trigger ready to flip the beam on and slide to the trigger in a split second. Since it is on the gun you can shoot what you are looking at keeping your hands on the weapon for max control.

Just grabbing the gun from a sound sleep is hard enough let alone finding a separate light and holding it so your thumb is on the button is more than I could handle.

Once you commit to using a powerful flashlight in a dark room it must stay on till the situation is over or room lights have been turned on. Such a brite light effects everyone in the rooms night vision for sure.

The Surefire is so bright it freezes most people "caught" by its intense beam. Hey if the Guy coming at you while your sleeping is trained you're dead anyway. Hope for a crack addict type perp. LOL...

[bamiller]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I ordered a Crimson Trace laser yesterday and will use a separate small tactical flashlight for light. Like the idea that in a stressful situation where I may not be able to get a properly aimed shot that I don't need sight accusition to take a shot. Want to keep with a separate light because of the point one poster brought up about rail mounted lights pointing the lethal weapon at possible unintended targets.

[Sturmgewehre]

I'll make a couple of quick points. First, I decided to mount a Streamlight high intensity light on my Beretta PX4 home defense gun. My daughter sleep walks. So, it is an absolute must that I visually, positively identify any potential threats in my home. The thought of using my "night vision" to identify targets is absolutely insane and I certainly wouldn't want to stay over night in the house of any gun owner who did.

So you think it's a viable solution to point a loaded weapon at your sleep walking daughter in a moment of potential high stress (double action or not)?

I could not disagree more.

I hope you take the time to look at these NRA gun safety rules (http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp) and pay particular attention to rule number 1. I hope you reconsider your position on this at some point for the sake of your family.

[Sturmgewehre]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I ordered a Crimson Trace laser yesterday and will use a separate small tactical flashlight for light. Like the idea that in a stressful situation where I may not be able to get a properly aimed shot that I don't need sight accusition to take a shot. Want to keep with a separate light because of the point one poster brought up about rail mounted lights pointing the lethal weapon at possible unintended targets.
I think you made a very wise decision.

[Sturmgewehre]

Just grabbing the gun from a sound sleep is hard enough let alone finding a separate light and holding it so your thumb is on the button is more than I could handle.
It's called "training". If you can find and use your handgun, you can find and use your flashlight. It's all a matter of what you commit to learning how to do and being diligent with your training.

Most people don't really train with their firearms unfortunately. They go to the range every once in a while with their buddies and blast rounds off at dirt clods and various paper targets. I've ran into very-very few shooters that actually take their primary defensive handgun out and actually train for different scenarios regularly.

If you're one of those who don't really apply yourself to training, then don't expect much at the "moment of truth". You have about the same chance of prevailing in a fight as the perp does... perhaps 50/50 with a slight advantage going to the man who gets the drop on the other.

If you do train regularly and train hard, good for you! :) I admire that in shooters.

[TDR911]

Sturmgewehre is correct. Most of the people here on the forums rarely if at all train themselves in these types of senarios.
All of them should at least take 1 class with a well known self defense trainer. They are usualy 2 or 3 days of invaluable information on gun saftey and gun handling principles. These clases are in the $ 400.00 range and worth every penny, as when you leave that class you will never think in the same way. You will be more confident and much safer in your gun handling.
I suggest at least 1 a year and go to as many different trainers as you will pick up different technics from each trainer.

Here is a link to trainers here at this forum:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206311

TRAIN/TRAIN/TRAIN PRACTICE/PRACTICE/PRACTICE