best 10mm???

[wolfe 21]

Two part question: firstly, I've already got an old OSHP beretta 96D chambered in .40 smith. I'm thinking about getting a 10mm just to have one, but I was just wondering if the 10 will do anything that I can't do with the .40 Smith??? I shoot mainly at the range, so stopping power is not my main concern.

Second, what is the best platform for the 10mm besides a glock??? I just don't like the plastic fantastics. I was thinking either some 1911 (delta elite/DW Razorback/??) or something like an eaa witness (metal frame) or cz model pistol as I don't own any of these and have 2 1911s. I'd love to have my ruger 95 in 10mm (dead bang reliable, accurate, ugly as a fence post), but that's just not an option. I see the EAA is less expensive, but I don't want to fall into the you get what you pay for area and have no experience with EAA. The Delta would be my first choice, but it needs too much modification to be practical for me(novak sights, beavertail, mag well, trigger, lowered/flared ejection port, extended slide release/safety), besides which no one wants to cut up a new colt, and the DW is just pricey for what it is. What do you think????

[Carne Frio]

In 10mm I have Glocks, 1911's, Witnesses, Javalina, Auto Ordnance
and S&W. The S&W in Model 610 is the best; my opinion; and it
shoots 40 S&W, also.:D

[espnazi]

If you can try to find a used Delta Elite Gold Cup I just acquired one and it feels great.

[Officer's Match]

This is my worst one, and my best (I only have one :D):

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/sly250r/IMG_0036-1.jpg

[Stevie-Ray]

Same here, I have a Glock 29 and an original Colt Delta Elite. I definitely would not be without the 10mm in general, and the Colt Delta in particular.

[AZAK]

The Delta would be my first choice, but it needs too much modification to be practical for me(novak sights, beavertail, mag well, trigger, lowered/flared ejection port, extended slide release/safety)

Having owned, and shot, a few 10mm autos over the years, I personally prefer the Delta Elite. (However, I might add that if you are planning on kicking around out in the bush, a Glock might be more suited for the task. My G29 has been around a good deal of Alaska over the years, and always goes bang when it is supposed to; and I really have never cared if it gets scratched or dinged up a bit when out and about.)

My DE, on the other hand, is my favorite centerfire hand gun that I shoot and carry on a regular basis. You mention that you already have 1911s, my guess is that if you prefer the 1911s, then the DE would be your "cup of tea".

I have found that there is no need to change out "parts"; you can if you prefer, I did change out a couple, after much testing.

In order:
Sights are just great, three dot.
The grip safety is a bit better than on a standard/Mil-Spec Colt; not a beavertail, but better.
Mag well; mine works just fine being beveled.
Trigger is crisp and great SA.
Ejection port is already lowered.
Slide release and safety also work just fine.

Your list is of course personal preference, and 1911s are always "upgradable", but the DE runs just great out of the box; at least my original pre-enhanced version does.

If you are just shooting at the range, still my favorite centerfire pistol, be aware that unless you reload ammo can be pricey and harder to find when comparing to .40 S&W.

[breed]

my DE is my favorite handgun. IMO you can't go wrong with a colt or the witness. mine have run flawless over the years.

[jmr40]

I think the Glock 20/29 is the best platform for current production 10mm's. If that does not interest you I would look for a used S&W 1006 series pistol in 10mm. They are great guns.

[troy_mclure]

I have a Dan Wesson razorback 10mm.

It shoots the hottest loads fine, is super accurate, but ive had troubles with it since i bought it.
Locked up with 9rds thru it. I had to hammer it apart(at dw instructions). It still has frequent ftf(feed) at 750rds.

Apparently this is because the gun is "built so tight" :rolleyes: .

I vote delta elite.

[wolfe 21]

Thanks for all the information. I guess now I just have to see what my local FFL can get for me. I'd like to have the colt or the EAA, but those are both rare items around here (mainly glock, kimber{cast slide:barf:}, ruger, smith wheel guns, occasional walther/sig, and long guns).

On a side note, has anybody seen one of the "new" BREN Ten's. Any info on pricing/availability of these? Might be cool to own the original 10mm, even if it is a repop.

James.

[bamaranger]

Don't know about your neck of the woods, but I am seeing Glock 20's used for under $500 locally, and have yet to see a Colt 10 in any flavor in any of my usual haunts. Now, it is a fact that I do not get out around the shops and shows as much as others, and the "big" shop in my area is 1 hr plus away ( the odds would be much higher there I'm sure) but Colts are not that common in my limited experience.

So a default to Glock, and put the spare cash on dies and components, or heaven forbid, factory ammo. Not as sleek and more boxy and synthetic for sure, but tough as nails and reliable.

[Skans]

I like the Witness Stock - that's the one I purchased when I wanted a 10mm. I wasn't satisfied with only 8 rounds, and I didn't want a plastic 10mm.

[ohen cepel]

I have the Glock 20 and the Kimber Eclipse. Both are very good if you like that platform.

Really depends on taste/task in my mind.

Yes, the 10mm will do a lot more than the .40 if loaded hot and if you need that level of power.

[Sevens]

Flexing plastic frame of the Glock does a terrific job of handling 10mm. I was absolutely impressed. I bought my G29 without first shooting 10 from any Glock.

Would you believe that felt recoil (to me, anyway) is less in my small G29 than it is in my monstrous S&W 1006? Actually, it doesn't matter if you believe it or not. I believe it, and that's enough for me.
On a side note, has anybody seen one of the "new" BREN Ten's. Any info on pricing/availability of these? Might be cool to own the original 10mm, even if it is a repop.
New production models did NOT appear at the recent 2010 SHOT Show and a lot of folks who have been salivating over this project for a couple of years were quite peeved.

This from the Vltor discussion area:
I apologize for all of the confusion on the upcoming Bren 10. The first guns will be shipped to dealers & distributors by the end of May. Sporting Products LLC trade only distributor; will be selling the production of guns. The models will be avilable in the following order. 10mm & 45 Standard 5" model first delivery end of May 500 10mm & 200 45acp. Standard Vice model 5" 10mm & 45acp same quantities expected July August. Special Forces Dark 500 units .45 ACP ONLY, Special forces light 200 pieces .45 pieces only. If you would like to reserve one of these guns; go to the only distributor that is taking pre-orders www.ellettbrothers.com use the dealer locater and find a dealer near you to order the guns. The prices are as follows MSRP Standard and SF Light $1199.00, Standard Vice $1299.00, and Special forces Dark $1099.00. The guns will use Tangfolio magazines come with two and extras will be available. Test guns are being run through quality control. Please check our website next week as it will keep you informed as to progress. www.sportingproducts.com

Thanks

Adam Trieschmann

Also, from what I gather, the first run of actual pistols (not built yet?) have already been sold. In other words, if you want a new Vltor Bren Ten, grab a pop and a comfy chair and give it another year or so... maybe... in any case, if you just want to get in to 10mm, buy a 10mm and leave this idea as something, maybe, in the future.

Oh yeah... Nighthawk builds a 10mm, too. If ya got a couple grand, check them out.

[wolfe 21]

looks like either the witness or the Glock (:barf:) are gonna be the easiest to find around here. I like the 1911 platform, but Colts are fairly rare around here (have had a few used 1911's show up though, incl. .38 Super Gold Cup).
I almost hate the idea too much to ask, but does anyone have recommendations for a fullsize, 10mm glock. 20, 27, 29 (another sign of inferiority, guns should have names not numbers).

Thanks, James

[MikeRussell]

I used to own a Glock 20, have shot Delta Elites and S&W 610s. A while back, I bought an EAA/Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match in .38super (stick with me). I sold my Glock, not because it was a bad pistol, just over time I realized it wasn't really what I liked. I loved the 610 because you can shoot either 10mm or .40 Short & Weak out of it. I'm a die hard 1911 guy, but also a die hard CZ guy. My next 10mm will be an EAA/Tanfoglio Witness Elite Limited (because I'll be doing USPSA Limited Div with it), because the Elite Match I have is such a sweet handling, accurate pistol (and it's just a hair larger than my CZ75 SP01 that I use in Production Div).

Now, based on what you said you want it for, I'd recommend first the S&W 610. You can run full power 10mm when you feel like it and you can get cheap .40S&W ammo to shoot through it. If a wheelgun isn't it for you, then I'd recommend that you put your hands on the Glock and the Witness and see which one feels better to you. IF you like the Witness, and none are on hand, and you don't mind SAO, then have them order an Elite Match for you (should be around $500 or so). You will not be disappointed.

[wolfe 21]

From what I've been able to find online, I had planned to go with the elite match if ordering a witness. My only complaint is the goofy 2-tone color. I would much prefer either blued or "wonder finish" with preference to the wonder. But I do like the high cap, adj. sights, and SAO (1911 esque) trigger and extended safety slide release on that model and figured for all the improvements over the base model I could live with the color.

Also, what do you think of your .38 super. I was liking the idea of interchangeable calibers on the witness as well. (250 for basically a new gun:p).

Thanks, James.

[Blue Steel]

Glock 20

[GONIF]

I have a Colt Delta,Glock 20,Springfield Omega,and a S&W 1006. I like the S&W 1006 best . I had it sent to Novack for a mag disconect delite,and night sights,and trigger job . If you can find a used S&W 1006 for a good price grab it . You better start reloading if you want a 10mm. If you want real full power ammo ,it's reload it yourself orbuy Buffalo Bore or Double tap or Corbin ,and they are very pricey .

[Jimbo-Indy]

Unless you are just sold on ta semi, find a S&W 610. Reliable and any revolver, loads fast with full moon clips, takes the asme holsters as other N frames
and built on a frame that was designed for 44 Mag but there is even more steel around the chambers due to the smaller bore AND it can shoot .40 without changes. I often carry my 6 1/2" 610 under my vest in a Bianchi X15 shoulder rig and toss a couple of loaded moon clips in my pocket Very comfortable and you can do Dirty Harry impressions if you get bored.
Mine drives 180 gr. XTPs at around 1350 FPS and is very accurate with both 10mm and .40. Point of impact does change some between 10 and 40 when both are shooting 180s.

[MikeRussell]

Also, what do you think of your .38 super. I was liking the idea of interchangeable calibers on the witness as well.

I like my .38super a lot, but if you think finding 10mm ammo is hard try finding some good .38super! LOL I reload, so it's not a big deal for me. I call it my 9mm on steroids (124gr bullet at 1500fps, which is about 400fps faster than 9mm Hornady TAP loads) and it's an absolute tack driver. If there wasn't a rule about .40cal or larger for major in Limited Div, I'd use it (rather than making plans for a tricked out Witness Limited in 10mm). And when you've got the Match in hand, the duo-tone look isn't that bad...especially when you find out how good it shoots. ;)

[Peter M. Eick]

Best 10mm?

If you want to go hot loads and power, get a 610.

If you want a gun that can take it all with no problems, get a witness.

I sold off my witness and my glock because I had a custom Les Baer 10mm made up and have somewhat regretted that. As much as I love my Baer, I will not feed it ammo and reload experiements that I would not have a second thought shoving down my witness.

[Zhe Wiz]

Why isn't Fusion Firearms getting any love?

[ajgranda]

I vote for Colts Delta Elite!

[drail]

I vote for a S&W 610 (with moon clips) or the discontinued Springfield / PetersStahl Omega.

[wolfe 21]

I like the fusion guns, but prices seem a bit steep to me. If I decide I like the caliber, then maybe I'll try going the custom 1911 route. right now, I'm just looking for a good entry level 10mm.

James

[Zhe Wiz]

I like the fusion guns, but prices seem a bit steep to me. If I decide I like the caliber, then maybe I'll try going the custom 1911 route. right now, I'm just looking for a good entry level 10mm.

While they are on the pricey side, I'm not sure they're that far out of reach. A Colt Delta is what? $800+ on Budsgunshop...the Dan Wesson's have risen to over $1,000. You can get a Fusion for VERY close to the DW's. I was originally looking at a DW, but with the price, I've decided to go "low end" Fusion for my 10mm...unless I can pry that used S&W 1006 from a local farmer's hands. That doesn't look like it's going to happen, however.

So they are on the high end, but not ridiculously high, unless you want them to be. :-)

Zhe Wiz

[Webleymkv]

Have you considered looking around for a used S&W 3rd Generation Auto? I am quite pleased with my 1076 as it makes full power Double Tap ammo feel like a 9mm

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/Webleymkv/BuffaloSabresGame68.jpg

[Maromero]

I am quite pleased with my 1076 as it makes full power Double Tap ammo feel like a 9mm

I have one too and love it. I don't cc it due to it's weight. Just an exelent gun all around. Does it make full power loads seem as shooting 9mm? Eh! It tames the round somewhat but not even to 9mm+P+ recoil levels. My 2 cents.

[Sevens]

Sorry Webleymkv, I've gotta call you out on that one, man. My 1006 is longer and heavier than your 1076. And I've shot it with both the stock recoil spring and an upgraded Wolfe 22-lb recoil spring and I've shot it with watered down Hydra-shok, mid-level cast lead bullets from 175-200 grain and balls to the wall jacketed rounds from 150-200 grains and at no point does it EVER come down to feeling like a 9mm.

I realize that you are using artistic license, but it's still a 10mm for cryin' out loud! :D If you've got a 9mm in your safe that recoils anything like a 1076 sending DoubleTap down range, that's a 9mm I'd like to try.

[Webleymkv]

Sorry Webleymkv, I've gotta call you out on that one, man. My 1006 is longer and heavier than your 1076. And I've shot it with both the stock recoil spring and an upgraded Wolfe 22-lb recoil spring and I've shot it with watered down Hydra-shok, mid-level cast lead bullets from 175-200 grain and balls to the wall jacketed rounds from 150-200 grains and at no point does it EVER come down to feeling like a 9mm.

I realize that you are using artistic license, but it's still a 10mm for cryin' out loud! If you've got a 9mm in your safe that recoils anything like a 1076 sending DoubleTap down range, that's a 9mm I'd like to try.

I stand by my statement. Recoil of my 1076 with Double Tap 180grn XTP's is about equal to my CZ-75 or my dad's Sig Pro 2009 with Cor-Bon 125grn 9mm JHP and less than my S&W 1911 with factory 230grn .45 ACP FMJ. It is quite a bit louder though.

[varoadking]

I stand by my statement.

Dood...there's just no way...

My 1046 is a good bit bigger than my 1086, and your 1076. There is no way my 1046, or your 1076 handles full power 10mm loads like a 9mm. Sorry...it just ain't happening...not even close...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/guns/guns004.jpg

[Stevie-Ray]

Dood...there's just no way...Add me to the scoffers as well. Especially when using a load like that 180 XTP, what's that, like 1350fps? Sorry, I've got a tiny Glock 26 and Ive never put any load through that that was anything akin to a light 10mm, (PMC) and my normal load is a 124 gr Hydra-Shok.

[Webleymkv]

Well, percieved recoil is a funny thing and I didn't percieve those Double Taps to recoil any more than Cor-Bon 9mm's. Apparently, you guys percieve recoil differently than I do. Then again, I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil, I rather enjoy my .44 Magnum.

[wolfe 21]

yes, I have considered the smith. I like the way it looks and it seems to be about the right size, I just don't think I'd have much chance of finding a good used one (or one in any shape) around here though. Still, I will keep my eyes open just in case.

James.

[Webleymkv]

While there aren't many S&W 10mm's out there, there are some. You might try Gunbroker, Auction Arms, or Gunsamerica if you're comfortable buying off the internet. The most common model is the 1006 followed by the 1076 and 1066.

[41mag10mm]

This is in no way an attempt to highjack this thread. I don't have an opinion on any other 10mm than the Colt as I've owned one for many years. Since the subject is " best 10mm" I thought I'd raise the issue of ejection since most of us 10mm nuts reload. I have nothing but praise for the Colt (mine is the Match 10 version) with the exception of case ejection. Oh it ejects without fail, 15 yards one way then 20 yards the other! :mad: The only reason I don't shoot it more often is the time I have to spend chasing my brass. So, to get to the point for us reloaders, how do the others behave when it comes to ejection? I'd really like to find a good S&W 1006 but I'm not interested in getting another long range flinger. Obviously this won't be a problem with the S&W 610.:D

[Maromero]

If this is going to be a range gun I woud stay away from the 1076. The decoker is not the best one in the industry and unecesary if you 're not going to cc the gun.

[HisSoldier]

My DW Razorback is tops! I use Wilson's Ultima grease so it won't seize up, this is my third DW and I'm incredibly impressed with the quality of the fit and finish, but alas they are going way up in price. None of mine have ever seized.

You asked if the 10 MM does anything the .40 S&W doesn't, well, besides power factor it's been said that the 10 MM is an intrinsically more accurate round. I can't say from personal experience.

But if you want to load the 10 MM down to .40 Short & Weak power you can have the best of both worlds, as in a .357 revolver using .38 special.

If you ever go hiking in the deep woods you can carry full power loads. I'd prefer the full power for two legged critters too myself.

[Webleymkv]

The decoker is not the best one in the industry and unecesary if you 're not going to cc the gun.

The issues with the decocker were fixed many moons ago by S&W. If you get ahold of a gun that has not been retrofitted, S&W will do so for free (you just have to pay the shipping to get it to them).

[Maromero]

The issues with the decocker were fixed many moons ago by S&W. If you get ahold of a gun that has not been retrofitted, S&W will do so for free (you just have to pay the shipping to get it to them).

yes but I was refering to the design in general, specialy when compared to other designs like Sig.

[Sevens]

Well, percieved recoil is a funny thing and I didn't percieve those Double Taps to recoil any more than Cor-Bon 9mm's. Apparently, you guys percieve recoil differently than I do. Then again, I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil, I rather enjoy my .44 Magnum.
I absolutely agree that recoil is horribly subjective, or, in this context, FELT recoil. Absolutely true that each shooter feels it differently.

I've find many times over that I can go with the flow in recoil much more easily than many of the folks I shoot with, but I still come across different setups that are simply uncomfortable to shoot. (My .44 Mag 10" Contender barrel is awful to shoot)

I find the 10mm quite comfortable to shoot, but there's no way-- NO WAY I can put any 10 I've ever shot with any of the full spectrum of loads I've ever put though any of them back on target like I can with any 9mm.

Here is a recoil calculator:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
Tough to get perfect data for all the fields without doing some guessing here... but even if give them equal weights for firearm and equal powder charges (obviously not correct) just going with bullet weight and velocity put the 10 two to three times the recoil of the 9.

It's really not even close.

I don't think you are lying, I think perhaps you haven't put the two of them side by side in a while. I think your memory is cloudy on the issue and you don't want to look like you are back peddling. I simply think you are mistaken with what you said and I'd love to see you put 'em side by side on your next range trip.

Or maybe everyone else with a 10xx is overly recoil sensitive and you love recoil so much that all your nuclear 10mm loads feel like 9's.

[Webleymkv]

I've shot both the 1076 and the CZ side by side and honestly can't tell much difference. I've also shot the 1076 and my S&W 1911 (5" barrel, all-steel frame) side by side and the .45 seemed to have slightly more recoil. FWIW, my dad was with me and he shot both the 1076 and the CZ as well as his Sig 9mm and agreed that recoil felt about the same. Perhaps I'm just odd because I also can't tell much difference between Double Tap 180grn XTP, Remington 180grn FMJ, Federal 180grn LFP, Georgia Arms 180grn FMJ, Hornady 200grn XTP, Blazer 200grn FMJ and Winchester 175grn Silvertips in this gun either, recoil with all of them seems about the same to me. Honestly, it kind of suprised me when I shot it for the first time, I'd always read about the vicious recoil of a 10mm and was suprised at how tame the 1076 was. Certainly, the recoil of my 10mm is not nearly that of my .357 or .44 Magnum revolvers. Perhaps it has to do with the grips, I've got the FBI-style palmswell grips on my gun now, perhaps if I'd shot the Double Taps with the straight-backed grips it used to have I'd notice the recoil more. Another factor that may contribute is the bore axis of the guns mentioned. My CZ-75 and 1911 seem to have a lower bore axis than my 1076 does. Because of this, the recoil impulse is probably directed more straight back into my hand with those guns while it's more rotational with the 10mm.