The P7, yea or Nay

[TinyDee]

I have owned a couple actually, but just looking at a used P7 caught my eye. I am interested ni pros and cons.

[twhidd]

The H&K P7 is a mechanical work of art in my humble opinion. Some don't think they look nice, but I disagree. The squeeze cocker takes a little getting used to, but they are a pleasure to shoot. They're accurate and they never jam. I own one of the Saxony police imports, and I love it. Although, I probably paid to much for it.

My complaints? The magazines are so darned expensive. That and the trigger gets hot.

[Skans]

I don't see what all the fuss is about with regard to the P7M8. I wouldn't mind having a P7M13, but for what folks are asking for them, I can have a Sig X-Five, which I'd much rather have. Now, that's a work of art.

[PSP]

They are accurate and easy to shoot well. If you really want one, now is the best time to buy. The prices are low and the supply isn't getting any bigger. Some are available for as little as $550 or so, half what they were a few years ago. A great addition to any collection.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/psp001.jpg

[Coltman 77]

The P7 is an awesome handgun. :D

TinyDee, in your post you state, "I have owned a couple actually, but just looking at a used P7 caught my eye. I am interested in pros and cons."

Didn't you shoot the P7's you owned? Why are you asking this question?

No disrespect meant -- I'm just curious.

[Pilot]

Its one of the best 9MM's ever made. Shoot one and you will know.

Well seeing that you've already had them, why did you sell them?

[oneounceload]

I have the PSP, as a LH shooter, it is nice to have a totally ambi gun - I vote YEA

[Ace_Breaker]

One of the best 9mm's ever. I've never had one glitch on me in any way. Probably the most accurate and reliable I've ever shot. If only they came tennifer coated.

[TinyDee]

Yeah, I did own one or two but that was in the carry a 45 days and I just moved away. Never was a 9mm fan until now.

[Officer's Match]

I don't see what all the fuss is about with regard to the P7M8. I wouldn't mind having a P7M13, but for what folks are asking for them, I can have a Sig X-Five, which I'd much rather have. Now, that's a work of art.

Frankly I don't see the big deal about Sigs - big, anti-ergonomic pistols IMO. The P7 is like a sportscar next to the SUV-like Sig.

[James K]

It is an interesting design, but seems too complex and over-engineered to me. Part of the complexity is for no other reason than to have a fixed barrel, IMHO a solution without a problem. That, combined with the squeeze cocking, just add up to a gun it takes a whole lot of getting used to.

The problem I found (and I agree that it could be reduced/eliminated by training) is that if one is firing, and relaxes the grip just a little, the gun goes back to the squeeze cocking mode and the handling completely changes. People complain about DA/SA pistols changing trigger pull after the first shot, but here is a pistol that can change its whole feel unexpectedly.

Not for me, not for serious purposes.

Jim

[Officer's Match]

Never had that experience Jim. I actually find the P7 to be the easiest pistol to warm up to (yes, pun intended) I've ever encountered. I don't think I've ever shot a "new platform" so well the first time out, even including my initiation to 1911's.

[Wiskey_33]

Never had that problem either. I don't relax my grip on any pistol while firing, squeeze cocker or not.

[Dave85]

Yea.

I have not had the squeeze-cocker relax on me unexpectedly either. It actually takes very little pressure to keep it depressed once the initial spring pressure is overcome. On my P7M8, it takes a conscious effort before it de-cocks. Different guns may have stiffer springs, but I have not encountered one that fights back like that.

The P7 has a fantastic size-to-power ratio. It has a full 4" barrel, and the attendant full-power ballistics, while taking up just a little more real estate than a Sig SAUER P232. It is not a light gun, and there are many chopped versions of full size 9mm's, .40's and .45s these days. All, however, will have shortened barrels, beefier slides, and higher bore axes.

Pistols are a juggling match between size, weight, and power. They all fall short in one respect, and sometimes more. The P7 is a very interesting solution that many of us find quite workable. In my opinion, it's weakest point is it's weight. It is surmountable, however, and I carry one most every day. I don't think there is anything in it's size that matches it's shootability.

If you want to carry one, you would be advised to begin the search for a holster before you begin looking for a P7 (provided you know which model you want). There are really no worthy off-the-shelf items available, and all of the custom holster makers are booked well into the future. Matt Del Fatti, the reigning King of P7 Leather, hasn't even taken an order in over two years. It is my hope that someday my great-grandchildren will be able to get a Del Fatti for Grampa Dave's old P7M8.

[Officer's Match]

I agree with Dave. Space efficiency at it's finest. Not appreciably longer than the Glock 27 my P7M8 is pictured with, yet a full 4" barrel. Note the difference in barrel lengths between these two:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e131/sly250r/IMG_2002.jpg

[flashover251]

I recently picked up a P7 PSP and love it. The only con I have with it is that it does get hot after about 4 mags.

Overall I would buy another one right now if I had the cash in hand. Great guns and just plain fun to shoot!

[earlthegoat2]

see sig line

[twhidd]

Part of the complexity is for no other reason than to have a fixed barrel, IMHO a solution without a problem.
I think that was the very reason. Fixed barrel handguns are generally limited to small calibers .380 or smaller, or else the recoil would beat you to death. Not to mention batter the gun. That's the beauty of their delayed blowback design. A fixed barrel with a full power caliber that's easy to shoot, it sits low in the hand, and it's extremely accurate.

[mete]

It took me all of about 2 mags full to get used to the squeeze , after all it's well within the normal grip force. The fixed barrel means great accuracy. It has many unique features that make it very reliable that most aren't even aware of . For example it has the shortest mag to chamber travel for the cartridge and the straightest feed. If anyone is unhappy with their send it to me I'll give it a good home !!:)

[TinyDee]

Earlthegoat, Outstanding article you wrote

[Officer's Match]

It has many unique features that make it very reliable that most aren't even aware of .

Another is fluting around the cartridge in the firing chamber that utilizes the gas pressure to extract the empty brass. In fact, a P7 will function with the extractor completely removed (other than obviously not ejecting unshot live rounds by hand cycling). And that the gas delayed function is "automatically load strength compensating", rather than needing to adjust spring rates to function best with different load strengths.

The more I consider it, the more convinced I am of the merits of this platform.

[EdInk]

Personal feeling on the gun is that it is pretty nice weapon.
However, it's rather "European" shall we say, like capri pants for men. The whole front grip safety is not a bad idea but is too different from anything to which I am familiar. It is would be something I may own has toy but
not something I would carry around. H&K makes good guns so if you like it the performance won't be a problem. I just don't like the looks of the thing.

[Frank Ettin]

Having taken a couple of classes with my P7M8 and having carried it a bit, it's become one of my favorite carry guns. It's compact and conceals very well. It's manual of arms is not hard to master with some training and practice.

[Officer's Match]

It is not a grip safety. It literally cocks/decocks the pistol, as well as releasing the slide from a locked back state. And frankly P7 performance can prove ruinous for other handguns after becoming accustomed to the accuracy, reliability, flat recoil, amazing trigger, compactness/slimness, natural pointability, intuitive function... they really are amazing pistols.

If someone had the ability and the entrepreneurial guts to manufacture an aftermarket alloy frame for the P7, I'd be their first customer.

[twhidd]

I wish H&K would bring them back.

[twhidd]

If someone had the ability and the entrepreneurial guts to manufacture an aftermarket alloy frame for the P7, I'd be their first customer.
I'm curious how well an alloy frame would dissipate the heat that is generated around the trigger that is inherent to this design.

[Officer's Match]

Good thought. I view it as a duty/defensive weapon, not so much a range toy. So I don't get too worried about the heat factor.

[1911 Shooter]

Love mine, I have no problems : the P7. Sure, they can heat up a little with 4 mags straight, but I'm not in that big of a hurry .. SHTF mode kicks in , I doubt I will care how hot the weapon is.

[NWCP]

I have owned a couple actually, but just looking at a used P7 caught my eye. I am interested ni pros and cons.

If you've owned a couple in the past they haven't changed a bit since then. You know what the squeeze cocker is all about and that the fixed barrel provides great accuracy from a relatively small package. I own a P7PSP and a P7M8. Get a police turn in P7PSP while you can and enjoy. :confused:

[TinyDee]

The PSP was the one I looked at. Says no heat shield and some trigger guard modifications I think. Any thoughts on this one versus a M8?

[orionengnr]

They're accurate and they never jam.
Having owned six, I can tell you from experience that any ammo that exposes a lead base to the powder will cause vaporized lead in the gas piston area fairly quickly, and serious and frequent jamming.
I'm curious how well an alloy frame would dissipate the heat that is generated...
Aluminum conducts heat better than steel. That is one reason that as air-cooled motorcycle engines began to develop power (think anything higher than Briggs and Stratton power per cubic inch), they switched from steel and began to use aluminum alloy cylinders with a thin steel liner for wear resistance and aluminum alloy heads (light weight was a side benefit).

P7s are great pistols. They helped HK establish a reputation for quality that exists to this day. Check out parkcitiestactical.com (The Cult of the P7) for some real P7 fans, and all the info you will ever want.

[Sevens]

Wow-- so even a traditional FMJ round as we know it will mess up the gas piston?

That's something I didn't know and if it's the truth, it certainly changes my desire for one up a bit.

All my handgun eat my handloads. I shoot a lot of cast lead. I can work with it on jacketed bullets, but now I'd need TMJ bullets, too? Plated maybe?

[oneounceload]

Anyone worried about heat should step away from the video games and stop trying to emulate those actions. No one in real life has that worry. Plated bullets will work like jacketed as far as the polygonal barrel is concerned

[Dave85]

Plated bullets are generally a fine solution to leading in barrels with polygonal rifling, but should be avoided in the P7. The plating is often so thin that it can be shaved off by the gas port, and create a clog.

EDIT:
I do not handload, and I've never pulled apart any of the practice loads I've used to see if they have an exposed lead base. I have shot a whole lot of WWB, and a bunch of Sellier & Bellot, and some Fiocci; but no TMJs ever. I have never had any issues with it.

[Stevie-Ray]

I'll have one one of these days, M8 or M13, doesn't matter to me. It'll be only my second HK, but I've always wanted one.

[berettaprofessor]

Ha! Just saw the attached thread (a comparison of Glock23 and the P7) today on THR.org and knew it would come in handy the next time this question was asked! See link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503077

[Microgunner]

I like mine. Would have no problem recommending them to anyone.

[TinyDee]

I got the PSP yesterday and am happy, indeed. In my view, a truly great pistol.

[Peter M. Eick]

Yea.

While I have sold off 2 so I only have 3 now, I would never sell any of them. Excellent guns, great for carry and exceptionally accurate. One is on my hip right now as my daily carry gun.

[Ace_Breaker]

Yes, yes, and yes!


http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/Ace_Breaker/IMG_0211.jpg

[HKFan9]

I'v been looking for where I can get an affordable P7 that might be a lower grade because I want to get it refinished. Anyone know where the best place to look might be?

[PSP]

Anyone know where the best place to look might be?

Cheapest place I know of...
http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/

[cwb]

its an hk so you cant go wrong

[Ace_Breaker]

The grading is on the internals not external finish. I've seen like new grade B's and wear to the finish on grade A's. Although internally I can't really see much of a difference between the two. Not sure about the C's.

[HKFan9]

from HKspecialist site linked above

"These are grade C from HK police trade Grade C according to HK is the following. HK grades them A, B or C. HK states these P7 are graded on exterior finish wear the internals are like new."

[fourdogs]

I find my p7 to be the safest most instinctively accurate pistol I have ever shot. The guns design is imo genius. I think almost anyone who has never shot a gun in their life could pick up a p7 and shoot respectably. Once you understand how the gun was designed and built, and after holding it in your hand feeling the balance it's evident to me the gun is something very special.

No problem whatsoever getting used to the squeeze cocker or holding it depressed. The gun imo is a perfect ccw. No nonsense and no frills. It was designed to give the operator every advantage in a gun fight. It's a specialty gun that many admire, but some people just don't care for it. Personally I'm glad I learned about the p7 and was fortunate enough to have found an IA in like new condition. I've held both types of bottom release, and the early version's grip size fits my hand better, and it's a little more concealable. I also like the protruding release better, but would have been happy with the flush release.

If you haven't seen one, or shot one do yourself a favor and try one out. You may not like the pistol, but if your like many including myself you'll just have to have one.

[PSP]

You may not like the pistol, but if your like many including myself you'll just have to have one.

As you can tell by my screen name I'm a P7 fan. However, it's been my experience that about half of the people that shoot one of my P7s, (usually during a friendly "you shoot mine...I'll shoot yours" exchange at the range), end up saying they didn't like it.

It's a gun not well suited as everyone's ideal. It's fun to share though, as every now and again the light goes off, the spark ignites, the thrill runs up the leg...and another HK man is born. :D

[LSP972]

..."ammo that exposes a lead base to the powder will cause... serious and frequent jamming."...

Do you have any empirical data/proof of this?

I reload. For my P7 and P7M8, I exclusively load the Precision Delta 115gr 9mm ball projectile, which has a base of exposed lead.

I have shot many thousands of this load (3.9 grains of WST) though both P7s and the M8.

I've yet to notice any of this lead vaporization of which you speak... OR any jamming issues. I do clean the pistols well after shooting them, but sometimes I put as many as 200 rounds through one prior to cleaning.

Sorry, bud, I'm not buying it. Convince me...

.

[jaughtman]

IF you want to nitpick, the only cons would be non-high-capacity and expensive accessories (extra mags, holsters, etc.). The ole' "it gets hot" argument would only come into play if you shot it more than 5 mags in a row without resting. I bought one when they discontinued them just as a collector gun, and now it is on the verge of becoming my main carry gun. If I can brag a little, got it for only $550!

Jamie

[fourdogs]

I'm glad this thread got revived. You just can't keep a good P7 down. I've shot lead based hardball, and see no issues at all. I can't see there would ever be a problem with normal cleaning. I also don't see 9 rounds as a negative. Many guys including myself carry a P7. If I needed more than 9 rounds for some perps I'd better have a reality check about how I'm living. Then again, I always have an extra mag just in case ;)

....and the mantra about burning your tender fingers cause the guns getting hot. I don't know about you, but I don't run my gun so it's a total non issue.

[gc70]

There are really no worthy off-the-shelf items available, and all of the custom holster makers are booked well into the future.

IMHO, Comp-Tac's MTAC holster carries a P7 comfortably and securely.

[Pilot]

Its the best compact 9MM ever made and a work of art due to its gas delayed design, soft shooting and accuracy. While heavy, its slim and compact and dead nuts accurate at the range. Its the most natrually pointing and easy to shoot 9MM I have ever shot. I carry the P7 PSP regularly and use the M8 as a range gun.

[RMA]

I perfer the M8 over the standard run of the mill P7 personally. My M8 is always with me & my M13's are for the range :D