Sig Sauer plastic guide rods

[Oldjarhead]

I am a new owner of my first Sig. A P229. I noticed on a parts website for Sigs about replacing the factory installed plastic guide rods, with a metal one. Has anyone experienced any problems with the Sig plastic guide rods? Are there any real advantage or reason to switch? Thanks.:confused:

[Shadi Khalil]

When did Sig start doing plastic guide rods?

[twhidd]

Advantage being cost, I would assume.

[bartenderfloyd]

I bought my 229 in july. It too had the plastic guide rod. I have about 500 - 600 rounds through it and it is an excellent gun. The only advantage I've heard of for the metal guide guide rod is the extra weight to offset recoil. I can't imagine the effect is that great.

[Walt Sherrill]

About 8-10 years ago (don't remember exactly when) SIG first introduced plastic guide rods. There was a major uprising among SIG owners, and SIG e ventually went back to metal. (Not because SIG thought metal was better and plastic was a mistake, but in response to the outrage of SIG owners over having "plastic" in a SIG.)

Looks as though SIG went back to plastic again a while back -- I missed it -- don't know when.

I've had a few SIGs, and never had problems with their plastic parts. CZs have plastic guide rods in some models, too. As do Glocks.

Some poeple just don't like plastic.

[Walt Sherrill]

Oops. Double Post. Sorry.

[EAJ702]

My SIG rep told me last week that all “P” models now come equipped with plastic guide rods. Most owners that I know replace the plastic with stainless for aesthetic reasons and to reduce muzzle rise. :(

[HKP30]

They started with plastic guide rods earlier in 2009. More recently, the P229s are shipping with roll pins in the slides and doing away with the press fit pins.

[firespectrum]

I was disconcerted when I saw the plastic guide rod on my 229, but I haven't had any problems yet. I don't think a company as reputable as Sig would would change a critical component unless they tested it extensively and it worked. If it turns out to be an operational issue, and not just the "ewww plastic!" problem I'm sure there would be a recall.

[chris in va]

Boggles my mind. How can Sig charge so much for their guns and use plastic. I could understand if it was a $250 KelTec, but come on.

[Skohrs]

Had my SP2022 since September, this year. Have run about 2k rounds thru it since and it still fires as prestine as it did from its cherry pop! Love it. I couldn't imagine that replacing the rod would make that big of a difference in muzzle rise. Or maybe it would?

[zombieslayer]

Fwiw, keltec only use a plastic rod on the 32. The others all have steel. I wouldnt think Sig would use plastic. Hmm, controversy.

[socom58]

My 226 has a plastic guide rod and it does not bother me. The gun has always shot perfectly.

[Jkwas]

Lot's of manufacturers have gone this route. Beretta uses them now in the 92 and M9, claims they work better when dirty and also will not permanentaly bend out of shape.
On the other hand I'm sure they keep weight and costs down as well.

[DBAR]

Lot's of manufacturers have gone this route. Beretta uses them now in the 92 and M9, claims they work better when dirty and also will not permanentaly bend out of shape.
On the other hand I'm sure they keep weight and costs down as well.

Your right, lots of manufacturers have gone to the plastic guide rods, but it doesn't mean we have to like them. It's obviously a cost issue, as there is no real benefit.

I replaced the ones in my CZ's, but my Sig came with the steel guide rod. If the gun was orginally designed with a plasic guide rod/recoil spring assembly like the Glock, then I have no problem with them. If the gun was designed with a steel assembly like the CZ's, and Sig's, then it should be made with a steel assembly. It really bugs me when a manufacturer is willing to cut corners to produce a product for higher profits. I understand that it cost more money now to produce the same product as did 10 years ago, but I'm willing to pay a little more to keep the same level of quality.

I personally think Sig should do something like what Kahr did. They should produce 2 different lines of handguns. They should produce their regular line of handguns at the same level of quality for a little higher price, and produce another "economy" line of guns with MIM, and Plastic. Then the customer would at least have a choice. Gee, what a concept????

DBAR

[Oldjarhead]

Thanks for the info fellas. If anyone is interested, www.grayguns.com sells blue and stainess metal guide rods for Sigs.

[Walt Sherrill]

If the gun was designed with a steel assembly like the CZ's, and Sig's, then it should be made with a steel assembly. It really bugs me when a manufacturer is willing to cut corners to produce a product for higher profits. I understand that it cost more money now to produce the same product as did 10 years ago, but I'm willing to pay a little more to keep the same level of quality.

In the case of CZs, it may depend on other things, too.

The alloy-framed CZs, CZ has found, don't hold up as well to steel guide rods as the steel-framed models.

I was a moderator on the CZ Forum for years, and it was only relatively recently that we started hearing tales of frame wear from a few folks who had switched to steel guide rods on their alloy-framed compact models. (Just a handful of problems, when MANY other folks had installed steel guide rods from after-market sources.)

CZ will sell you a metal guide rod for a steel-framed gun, if you want it, but won't willingly do so for an alloy-framed gun.

I've had a lot of different CZs, with steel and plastic guide rods. I could never see any difference in performance -- and that, for me, was the only thing that mattered.

[shootingblanks]

My P220 was manufactured in 2006. My guide rod is metal and not plastic.

[KurtC]

Beretta went to using plastic rods a good number of years ago. They did so because they found that in a sand environment, a fluted rod provided better reliability (and a fluted metal rod would be cost prohibitive).

If Sig plastic guide rods are fluted as well, then it makes sense. If they are solid, then it is pure cost cutting.

Keep in mind that the 1911 was designed without a guide rod altogether, using a recoild spring that was large enough to guide off the dustcover :)

[Uncle Malice]

I dropped well over a grand on my P220 Stainless Elite back around August. It has the plastic guide rod... and I'm not appalled. The guide rod does exactly what it's supposed to do... it guides... the recoil spring. It doesn't take any force or pressure.

Thus far, I have about 1,000 rounds through the gun without any kind of malfunction since round 1. I couldn't be happier with this gun... plastic guide rod or not. "OMG IT HAZ TEH PLAZTICK!!" is becoming a motto of many owners who think that anything with plastic in it is inherently cheap or cheaply made. I disagree.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs115.snc3/16243_207247757532_554172532_4013562_287725_n.jpg

[NJgunowner]

My sig p226 has the plastic guide rod. So did my IWI Jerico, I don't see it as a big deal.

[Coltman 77]

Uncle Malice and NJgunowner have it right. I have a new P220 which came with a polymer guide rod. Not a big problem. It runs great.

For $20.00 you can buy a new stainless guide rod. Not a big deal, IMO.

[gc70]

Since the original 1911 design did not even have a full length guide rod, I would guess that a guide rod does little more than anchor the recoil spring in place and is not subject to any significant stress. In that case, steel or plastic probably makes no difference.

[DBAR]

In the case of CZs, it may depend on other things, too.

The alloy-framed CZs, CZ has found, don't hold up as well to steel guide rods as the steel-framed models.

I was a moderator on the CZ Forum for years, and it was only relatively recently that we started hearing tales of frame wear from a few folks who had switched to steel guide rods on their alloy-framed compact models. (Just a handful of problems, when MANY other folks had installed steel guide rods from after-market sources.)

CZ will sell you a metal guide rod for a steel-framed gun, if you want it, but won't willingly do so for an alloy-framed gun.

I've had a lot of different CZs, with steel and plastic guide rods. I could never see any difference in performance -- and that, for me, was the only thing that mattered.

I have a couple of CZ's, and I'm trying real hard to figure out where the guide rod makes contact with the frame????

It's really just a preference....

[chris in va]

Fwiw, keltec only use a plastic rod on the 32. The others all have steel.

Guess again. My P11's is plastic.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5167/imgp4879.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/imgp4879.jpg/)

I have a couple of CZ's, and I'm trying real hard to figure out where the guide rod makes contact with the frame

The one on my 75BD is captured inside the recoil spring and is short enough not to make contact with the dust cover.

[dondavis3]

A lot of different Brands ( some high price) use plastic guide rods.

Those rods have next to no stress on them.

:)

[Walt Sherrill]

I have a couple of CZ's, and I'm trying real hard to figure out where the guide rod makes contact with the frame????

Check the photo.

The other end of the guide rod (about half of it) -- the part not visible in the photo -- rests against what is called the receiver stop.

As the slide goes back the base of the recoil spring (the end away from the front of the slide) is pushing against the base of the guide rod, which is resting on that small area on the frame.

In the case of an alloy frame, a harder steel guide rod apparently causes some wear on the relatively softer frame.

[zombieslayer]

Huh, I had a p11 briefly, thought that it had a steel rod. I know my pf9 and p3at both had steel rods.
My friends mom has an older colt .380, and it has a plastic one. It really doesnt matter, but given the choice, I prefer steel

[Conn. Trooper]

My issued 229 has steel ( 1994 vintage), my Blackwater 226 has steel (2007, I think). My new 226 has plastic. Didn't really bother me but I ordered a stanless one from Steve Bedair for $25 and have been using that for a while.

[cbr30328]

(1) Is there anyway to measure what kind of wear and tear the stainless steel is causing?

(2) I sometimes just cannot believe there is a plastic piece in a weapon. After reading your thoughts, I feel it's OK.

(3) But did anyone see that the plastic rod breaks sometime?

[Walt Sherrill]

But did anyone see that the plastic rod breaks sometime?

I've seen a broken Glock guide rod, a time or two. But the gun still functioned.

The CZ plastic guide rods caused a firestorm among owners, but I've never heard of a problem.

I've heard of problems with plastic SIG guide rods (years, ago, when they were first introduced, then dropped), but it was all second-hand.

I think its a non-event. Some folks just think there's no place for plastic in a gun. Some used to feel the same way about cars.

[dgludwig]

I think its a non-event. Some folks just think there's no place for plastic in a gun. Some used to feel the same way about cars.

And silverware...of course, the plastic substitute is made to throw away after use. :D

[varoadking]

I don't think a company as reputable as Sig would would change a critical component unless they tested it extensively and it worked.

LOL...you haven't been paying attention...

I ordered a stanless one from Steve Bedair for $25 and have been using that for a while.

All my SIG's have had a Bedair SS guide rod...whether I've since sold it or still have it...

It's interesting because they are all just a wee bit different, showing that Steve is always working to improve his product...

[Micropterus]

My Sig Sauer P220R Carry, made November 2009, has a metal guide rod.

[dgludwig]

All my SIG's have had a Bedair SS guide rod...

So does my CZ 85-Bedair's workmanship is flawless and he ships in a timely manner.

[MosinM38]

Sig 226. Don't know date but pre-04 as it all of it's magazines are marked "LEO only",etc.

2,500+ rounds (Probably 3K +) and no wear or problems. I'm not worried. It's not like its plastic you see in Pepsi bottles.