Springfield M1A questions for those in the know

[stellite]

Was wondering about two M1A's.

The first is a new gun with black plastic stock. Is there any physical way to tell if it is std or loaded? there are no markings on the gun saying loaded, so how can you tell just by looking at the gun. It has a muzzle brake with holes in it instead of the std long flash hider. It is also CA legal and was told it has the muzzle brake permanently attached.

The second gun is serial 090xxx. It is mint, never fired. Original wood stock with a big ugly notch hole on the right side behind the receiver, which allows you to see everything. this one has the std flash hider. Anything to know about this one?

[SR420]

The second gun is serial 090xxx. It is mint, never fired. Original wood stock with a big ugly notch hole on the right side behind the receiver, which allows you to see everything. this one has the std flash hider. Anything to know about this one?

That one was made in 1995.
It sounds like it has a USGI stock and probably has USGI parts (bolt, barrel, trigger group and op rod).
The "big ugly notch hole" in the stock is were the selector switch would be on a real M14.
All of my stocks have this hole and I refuse to fill them in.

Buy serial 090xxx if you can.

[stellite]

interesting thanks for the info on that one. Looks nice. But he wants price of a new one for it, is it worth that much?

[hobunchastuf]

The holes instead of the slots is for braking instead of flash hiding.
At least that's my understanding.

The Scout Squads and SOCOMs have those.

[SR420]

stellite interesting thanks for the info on that one.
Looks nice. But he wants price of a new one for it, is it worth that much?

Without knowing all of the details ... yes, it's worth it.

[nbkky71]

There are a couple things that give away a loaded model vs a standard model.

Loaded models will have a match front and rear sights. The rear aperture will have a smaller peep hole than a standard model and the front sight should be stamped 'NM' as well as a thinner blade.

The standard model will always have a carbon steel barrel, whereas a loaded can have a carbon or stainless steel barrel. If the barrel is stainless, it's at least a loaded model.

The other features, such as a NM flash hider and NM trigger, are not easy to visibily discern from standard parts.

Unless you have the box, which should have the model number stamped on it, the best way to verify the rifle is to call SA, Inc with the serial number. They'll tell you exactly how it left the factory.

[azredhawk44]

I typically favor fiberglass stocks over wood... but the wood-stocked GI configuration rifle above probably has a metal folding buttplate.

I much prefer the feeling of the metal buttplate than the rubber one that SAI is now shipping.

The older one probably has better trigger group components and/or extractor. There's been problems with SAI's aftermarket extractors for awhile. I've seen 2 fail at Appleseeds. Neither were GI M14 extractors, they were commercial SAI ones purchased in the last 2-3 years.

Get the older one.

[kraigwy]

You dont necessary will find NM stamped on a NM Front sight or the Flash supresser. Many people, including me, chucked the front sight in a milling machine. The thickness at the rear is the choice of the shooter and his eyes. Most like the rear sight to be the with of the target black when seen through the sights. They arnt necessarly thinner, but they are tapered from the rear toward the front. Same with the flash hider or suppresser. The only differance between the standard is that a #7 Tapered reamer is ran down the standard to make it a match.

The NM rear sight dosnt necessarly have a smaller appeture, the NM has two that I know of, the 540 and 495. Depending on your eyes. The NM rear sight is hooded and has 1 min clicks (for adjustment) the half min adjustents are made by turning the hood notch 180 degree. NM sights have 1/2 min windage adjustments which is nothing more then finer threads.

The recoil spring guide on the standard is a flat, stamped steel, tapered device that goes in the recoil spring. The NM recoil guide is round with a taper at the front. The gas system is brazed or glued to the barrel assembly on the NM guns, allowing the barrel to be free floated.

The NM is glassed, depending on if you are a Army fan, the action isnt lugged, if you are a marine fan they are. Personally I dont thing the lug is necessary, I'm been shooting my super match for 30+ years with just the glass bedding with no lug and it never had a problem

The so called loaded means its a Match or Super Match, The Match has a standerd NM barrel, the Super Match has a heavy match barrel. Or there is the medium weight match barrels. The army (and national guard) had two twist for their match barrels, The 4 grove for shooting the 173 (M118) bullet and the 6 grove for shooting the 168 (m852) bullet. I've never seen a heavy match with the 4 grove, but I have seen the standard weight and medium weight military match barrels in both 4 & 6.

I also neve saw a Loaded or Heavy Match (some call it supper match) with a fiberglass stock, All I have seen are the Walnut stock. Either the normal weight or the heavy Bishop Stock (for the heavy match).

Thats not saying they dont make them, its just I've never seen them nor do I think the military used them. The walnut stock is impregnated to keep it from drawing mosture.

Most of the exotic stuff you see today are just goobered up rifle made to sell to commie killers rather then target shooter. Which is fine if thats what you want. The real M-21s were nothing more then Standard Match Rifles w/the ART scope. Nothing like the stuff you see today and shoot every bit as well.

Remember the records you see in Service Rifles at HP and 1000 yard matches weren't the plastic exotic stuff you see today.

I think most of the match or super matches you find out here have been built, they dont or didnt come from the factory that way (although SA now makes them).

If I was gonna get another M1A for Matches I'd buy the standard and build it my self, It can be done a heck of a lot cheaper and isnt that hard to do.

I know this dosnt make since but its hard (for me anyway) to explain it w/out being able to point out the differances.

Here is an example of a super match that started out as a standard M1A in 1977. The next picture is the standard match set up as the M-21, taken at the Benning School for Boys USAMU Sniper school 1978.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/posting/websize/M1A%20_1_.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/posting/websize/Sniper%20School.jpg

[SR420]

Kraig, what profile barrel did the M21/Standard Match Rifles w/the ART scope have?

Thanks :)

[kraigwy]

SR

The M14/M1A barrels arnt contoured per se. Not like we think of as normal barrrels.

The Standard, Med and Heavy weith barrels are the same diameter as they leave the stock. As in they will all fit the same Flash Supresser so its hard to tell the differance without weighting them or pulling them out of the stock.

The differance is, or the weight differance is from the reciever, thats where they are thicker.

Kind of hard to explain without taking them out of the stock and looking.

The M-21s have the standard weight Match Barrels.

[kraigwy]

Original wood stock with a big ugly notch hole on the right side behind the receiver,

that big ugly notch as you call it, tells me its a USGI M14 stock. That notch is where the selector switch ould come out on the M14. That being a square looking lug that the selector switch would be attached if the M14 were to be use in the Full Auto mold.

Shooting the M14 in full auto might be fun, but you can't hit nothing. I've wasted more then my share of ammo playing with one.

[SR420]

kraigwy SR


The Standard, Med and Heavy weith barrels are the same diameter as they leave the stock.
As in they will all fit the same Flash Supresser so its hard to tell the differance without weighting them or pulling them out of the stock.

Kind of hard to explain without taking them out of the stock and looking.

It's pretty easy for me to tell the difference without removing the action from the stock.

22.0" Medium Heavy profile.
http://www.smithenterprise.com/imagesprod/22_in_Barrel_791.lg.jpg

18.0" Standard profile.
http://www.smithenterprise.com/imagesprod/CL_18bbl_Retail.lg.jpg

Shooting the full auto M14 equipped with SEI's M14 US Coast Guard / Navy Muzzle Brake is easy and accurate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qv1O9VOpjQ).

[Edward429451]

I have a Loaded model M1A and it didn't come with NM sights.

Mine came with
Medium weight match barrel
match trigger
match flash supressor (whatever that is, lol)

No match sights

[stellite]

guys, thanks for all the great info. The newer M1A does say NM on the front site and the blade is thin. It also came with a Loaded option sheet?:confused:

Anyway here is the older M1a and the older SAR-8 that has a strange looking 8 after the SAR like they screwed up the number stamp. The SAR is all metal, and both are mint never used and from the same era(1993-1996)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/hk-m1007.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/hk-m1006.jpg

[bobn]

from what i gather all of the newer sa m1a's have investment cast recievers. the older one should still be usgi. bobn

[SR420]

All Springfield M1As have cast receivers.