non-scope sight recommendations?

[scottycoyote]

i live in a mountainous wooded area, and im thinking about going with a sighting option other than a scope (deer hunting). Something that points quick, would be useful for a running shot, and maybe even help with low light stuff.

ive never used a red dot or a reflex.....just wondering whats out there and which ones are any good (or which to avoid). Needs to be able to handle recoil of a 3006. Also is there another sighting option im leaving out?

Ive also thought about a peep site....i know they dont help with the low light but its an option.

any recommendations?

[darkgael]

The "peep" or aperture sight is simple and effective. It's also very good for those of us whose eyes are changing for the worse as we age. You are right, though, about their use in low light situations. The low light aperture is a "ghost ring". It works but because of its larger aperture is less exact than the others.
Williams Sight Co. makes a huge selection of apertures for many, many gun models. The smaller apertures screw out of the sight housing and it turns into a ghost ring if need be. They are a good way to have both types.
Reflex sights are also very effective and the better ones will have no trouble handling the recoil of a .30-06. I have a JPoint that is slide mounted on my 1911. Every time the gun goes bang, the sight goes for a ride. It's been on the gun for several years and still holds zero.
Pete

[Scorch]

As mentioned above, peep sights are an option. I usually recommend a reflex or holo sight instead of a peep, but it will come down to what you prefer. If you choose peep sights (receiver sights), Williams Gun Sights sells excellent receiver sights ( http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/gunsightsdefault.htm ). If you choose a reflex or holo sight, here are a few options to get you started

Bushnell Trophy red dot
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=375193

Burris reflex
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=776514

Millet red dot
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=546845

[DBAR]

JPoint, Eotech, Aimpoint, and Trijicon are the higher end ones.

Burris, and Bushnell would be good, cheaper options for a hunting rifle.

I'd stay away from the Tascos, and the other low end models that look like a "pop can".

You may also consider a night sight type option. I'm sure someone makes something like the "Big Dot", or "Express Dot" sights. Ameriglo makes night sights for Remington, but I don't know what model. They also make night sights for the AR15, AK47, And the M14.

Google, and I'm sure you'll be entertained for an hour or so.

DBAR

[scottycoyote]

good stuff guys, thanks for all the info.

now i have to pick which.....from what ive read it looks like the reflex halo style might be what im looking for....any input on those, especially those vs say the regular peep site?

[greensteelforge]

Williams model 5-D can handle .375 H&H recoil. It's economical, very accurate, and can certainly hold zero with an '06. Red dot scopes tend to be pricey if built well enough for high-power, and reflex sights are just expensive. Neither will really help you, and the dots are generally large enough on both to obscure your target at longer ranges. Both are meant for close work, while the '06 and the peep sights are meant for a full range of use. If low light is an issue, use something to brighten your bead, but the traditional gold bead seems to work just fine for me.

[mapsjanhere]

Don't know your budget, but I just picked up a Zeiss 1.1 -4 with what they call a recticle 0, basically just an illuminated point. Combines the aimpoint with the ability to flip magnification to have a 4x scope for the aimed shot.

[darkgael]

Is that the Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1X-4X / 24mm?
Pete

[brmfan]

I have an Eotech 512 with 3x magnifier (flips to the side) mounted on a .308 carbine. I zeroed it at 250 and can hit an 8" steel plate all day long at that distance (which is about the size of a deer's vital zone if I remember correctly). It's fast & easy with that setup, even on moving targets.

[V.Hunter]

I'd stay away from the Tascos, and the other low end models that look like a "pop can".

Other than personal preference is there a reason why? I have had three Tasco red dots for more than 13 years with no failures or issues of any kind. They are on handguns chambered in 22LR, 357 MAG, and 454 Casull.

Just a little side note the Casull blew apart three Leupold Gilmores before I switched to the Tasco with zero issues. Yes I did have the Gilmores mounted per Leupold with four rings.

I would steer clear of all but the largest of peeps as they can cost you in low light.

What is your rifle equipped with now? Does it currently have open sights? What make and model is it? With these questions answered we may be able to give you a better idea of what will work well for you.

[scottycoyote]

its going to go on an encore barrel, nothing but open sites on it now

[CraigC]

IMHO, for a sporting rifle, no red dot sight will offer as much utility as a good receiver sight. My preference would be for the Lyman or the Williams Foolproof.

I wouldn't take a truckload of Tascos if they were free. I've got a box full of busted Tascos. All of them failed while mounted on rimfires. Cheap scopes are too expensive in the long term.

[OJ]

darkgael
Senior Member


Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 1,835 sights

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The "peep" or aperture sight is simple and effective. It's also very good for those of us whose eyes are changing for the worse as we age. You are right, though, about their use in low light situations. The low light aperture is a "ghost ring". It works but because of its larger aperture is less exact than the others.
Williams Sight Co. makes a huge selection of apertures for many, many gun models. The smaller apertures screw out of the sight housing and it turns into a ghost ring if need be. They are a good way to have both types.

I agree with that and my eyes are 83 years old :rolleyes:

I like the Williams FP(Foll proof) sights. Here's the one on my Winchester 94 that I hadn't removed the aperture from - didn't require drilling/tapping (FP94/36)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/BUFFALOBILL94A.jpg

And, on my Winchester 95 in 30-06 - did require D/T (FP71)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/IMG_1494_edited-1.jpg

And they ever make one for 22 rimfires that attaches to the scope grooves (FRGR)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/IMG_1552_edited-1.jpg

And, these are XS sights for my M1A with the aperture diameter twice that of the stock one - ghost ring effect.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/M1AXSGHOSTRINGSIGHTS.jpg

Works for me -

:D

[scottycoyote]

thanks guys......im in my 40s and my eyes have started changing and it sucks!!!! lol so i can relate

im liking that williams foolproof....

[darkgael]

williams foolproof....

Good choice.

Y'know...I've often had the thought that if more shooters were acquainted with aperture/receiver sights, fewer scopes would get sold. For any normal shooting at - oh, let's say 200 = at 200 yards or less, an aperture sight will work as effectively as a scope. The Service Rifle match shooters are shooting off hand at 200 with apertures and getting lots of tens on a target that is smaller than a deer's vitals.
Pete

[mapsjanhere]

Is that the Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1X-4X / 24mm?
Yes, mounted it on a BRL in 450 Marlin after I found regular scopes to interfere with the iron sights without very high rings.

[brmfan]

Scotty: You mentioned low light conditions + degenerating eyesight. I'm all for irons (i hunt with an iron sighted m1a myself) but under the constraints you mentioned i'd still opt for some sort of red dot or hws.

[OJ]

I was a little dubious at first about the tritium strip on the front XS sight on my M1A - feeling little reason to have a "night sight" on the M1A but, it is more visible in low light -

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/kmastf/RIFLES/M1AXSGHOSTRINGSIGHTS.jpg

Works for me -

:D

[Sport45]

Y'know...I've often had the thought that if more shooters were acquainted with aperture/receiver sights, fewer scopes would get sold. For any normal shooting at - oh, let's say 200 = at 200 yards or less, an aperture sight will work as effectively as a scope. The Service Rifle match shooters are shooting off hand at 200 with apertures and getting lots of tens on a target that is smaller than a deer's vitals.
Pete

If you're shooting at targets that are effectively a 6 MOA black dot on a large white piece of paper then a scope really doesn't help your shooting. If you want to shoot a red 12-gage hull that's setting on a brown tree stump at 100 yards it's a different story. You have to see it to shoot it I, for one, need some magnification for some situations.

I say that, but the only rifles at my house with scopes are .22's. The M1, AR, and Arisaka shoot just fine with their original peep sights. One day I'll get a flat top AR and scope it to see what I can do...