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300magman
September 26, 2009, 11:20 PM
I was looking at some model 70 varmints today, they were the new Outback model (the dealer said they were some kind of limited run, "shot show" special)
They were the first and only model 70s that I've ever handled and as such they were my first exposure to the model 70 safety. My only impression is: WHAT were they thinking!
It is by Far the most uncomfortable, unnatural, clumbsy and Rough/Loud safety I have ever tried to work. That said (and I'm sure, countless M70 lovers insulted) I must say it would be much more liveable if only the lever itself was of a slightly different design...say a ball-top rather than a flat, sharp toped, verticle rod.

Are there any aftermarket options available to replace this piece with?:confused:

And as for the several pounds of pressure needed to crank, grind, and force the resistant little bugger from position to position...with a resounding SNAP/CLANK no less, can I safetly assume that a bit of tinkering would improve this greatly? The salesman tended to imply that for $50-100 his gunsmith could do such a thing, but that seems pretty high for "a bit of touching up"
Would there be a particular part of the mechanism that requires some massaging? And has anyone had any experience with a M70 safety being so rough?


Also See Post #18 for Update

Wait, I'm Reloadin'
September 26, 2009, 11:34 PM
from the high road:

Vern HumphreyOctober 10, 2006, 12:57 PM
Winchester is not making the Model 70 anymore -- but perhaps you can find one in stock somewhere.

The great advantage of the Model 70, in my opinion is the 3-position safety. The Model 70 safety locks the striker, not the trigger (which in theory, at least, is safet than the trigger locking safety of the Model 700.) In the first position, the Model 70 locks the bolt handle down, so it can't be lifted inadvertantly. (Imagine seeing the buck of a lifetime in your sights and hearing a click! because the bolt handle was slightly raised!!)

In the second position, the safety still locks the striker -- so you can load and unload with the safety on.

The third position is fire, of course.

The Model 700 has only two positions -- and the safe position no longer locks the bolt down -- because of so many lawsuits due to accidental shootings. A bad answer to the problem, in my opinion. Remington should have gone to a three-position safety.

300magman
September 26, 2009, 11:40 PM
I didn't really want to start a 70 vs 700 debate :(

Swampghost
September 27, 2009, 12:41 AM
I just like shooting/hunting in general. IMHO if you can't load/unload your firearm without an accidental discharge and especially if it strikes somebody, you have no business owning a firearm!

I've only been at this for 50 yrs. and had many near misses as a kid. Most of them trying to convert swap-shop .22 rifles into full auto. I learned a lot!!!

You can call me old but there will not be a misfire into anything but terra firma.

Wait, I'm Reloadin'
September 27, 2009, 12:58 AM
sorry magman, I never really knew what the safety did until I looked that thread tonight, just thought I would put it on here. Me personally, I don't trust safeties and when shooting my model 70 I haven't used it since I have only hunted with it once, but I think I could be quiet enough with this safetl to flip it on/off without anything hearing it. Really rem/Win/Weatherby/marlin/etc i like em all, they all can do the same thing.;)

Jimro
September 27, 2009, 03:28 AM
My model 70 is from the early 1950's, so it probably can't compare to the safety you handled. I like mine, it was my Grandfathers, who passed it to my father, and now it is mine. Hopefully I will be able to pass it on to my son when he is ready to own his own hunting rifle.

You can polish the safety yourself if you have a mind to, or you can let it wear in over the years. And if it really bothers you, trade it in on something YOU like, there are too many options out there to get hung up on one make/model.

Jimro

CajunBass
September 27, 2009, 08:05 AM
Gee. And I always thought the Model 70's safety was just about perfect. :confused: Go figure.

One of the things I like about my 77/22's is the "Model 70 type, three position safety."

Picher
September 27, 2009, 08:18 AM
Anyone hurt with rifles having either Rem safeties is the result of carelessness on the part of the shooter. A safety is just one thing to keep a person safe while handling firearms. The owner is responsible for assuring that the safety and sear are operating properly. The handler is responsible for NEVER having the firearm pointing in a direction where it will injure anything accidentally.

Many military rifles didn't have safeties and those that did, were often very cumbersome. Safety is ultimately the responsibility of the gun handler and owner.

Some of the worst firearms in terms of safety were the old slingle-actions and lever-action guns. I've seen several ADs with both. The perceived problems with the Remington 700 pale in comparison.

Actually, I prefer the old-style 700 bolt-lock safety to either the new one or the Mod. 70 safeties.

taylorce1
September 27, 2009, 08:38 AM
I like the Winchester and Ruger 3 position safties as well as tang on Savages and old Rugers, and side safties like are on Remingtons and Timney triggers. The saftey I don't like is the low swing safety that I have on a few of my old Mausers. They are very dificult to operate when wearing gloves while hunting.

I've never felt the need to have the safety work while unloading my magazine. A safety is a poor substitute for muzzle awareness, it is amazing to me how many times safety equipment is brought up instead of firearm safety. Regardless of all the safety features the firearm is only as safe as the operator.

Edward429451
September 27, 2009, 09:07 AM
It is what it is. You only have to be 10% smarter than the machine to use it effectively. This goes for any brand or styling. Familiarization is the key to being able to use it efficiently. If you can't use it efficiently then you either haven't spent enough time with it, or you need to buy a different setup.

I'm used to the Rem safeties but have handled and used the 3 pos safeties on friends rifles (Savage) and like them.

ZeroJunk
September 27, 2009, 09:46 AM
I have a 56 year old model 70 and the safety is quiet, but has enough tension to stay put. I handled a later model 70 in a gun store and we actually could not get it off safety. I bought one that sounded like you were slapping a pie pan with a large spoon. Lawyers?

garryc
September 27, 2009, 09:54 AM
300MAGMAN, I have to agree with you on this. A Mauser safty is easier and quieter

30-30remchester
September 27, 2009, 10:09 AM
I have never tried a new model 70 however I use pre-64 model 70's extensively. They are quiet and reliable, an entire cottage industry has formed building custom model 70 type safeties for mausers and Remington 700's. Take a look at the HIGH dollar custom rifles and the vast majority have had model 70 safeties installed.

Buzzcook
September 27, 2009, 10:22 AM
Don't judge all Model 70s by the only one you've seen.

koolminx
September 27, 2009, 10:30 AM
That's very interesting to find out about the workings of the Mod. 70 safety. Thanks.

Personally, I don't trust ANY safety mechanism but by own hands.

kraigwy
September 27, 2009, 10:42 AM
What did I miss, I have never saw or heard of any game being scared away from the flipping off of a safety, Win, Rem, Rugers or anyone elses.

They were the first and only model 70s that I've ever handled and as such they were my first exposure to the model 70 safety. My only impression is: WHAT were they thinking!

I have a bit more experience with the Model 70 then that. I have several from pre-64s to the new FN Model 70s (which in my opinion is the pick of the liter.) I also have several model 700s, Mausers, Rugers, etc. I personally like the Model 70 safety the best, but to each his own.

I'm still wrestling with the QUIET bit. Is that really a problem on any gun???

First, when hunting I dont carry the rifle on safe anyway, because I don't carry a round in the chamber, I never needed too. Maybe thats why I haven't scared any game with the safety. I dont let my kids, grandkids, or anyone I hunt with carry a round in the chamber, there isnt any need, I never lost a shot because I had to chamber a round which to me makes a bit more noise the flipping off the safety. Maybe if I was to go to africa (which I havent) I might want a round in the chamber if I was trying to sneak up some something that might eat me, but never needed to in this country.

This topic is the first time in my 62 years on this planet I've heard of a problem with nosie safties.

Learn something every day.

ZeroJunk
September 27, 2009, 10:46 AM
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/ZeroJunk1953/IMG_0355.jpgWhat did I miss, I have never saw or heard of any game being scared away from the flipping off of a safety


I had a Model 70 Stainless Classic and I casually thumped the safety forward instead of using my thumb and index finger and the deer looked straight at me from 50 yards away and boogeyed.

Hell, I can hear it from 50 yards away if it's quiet.


This buck was 25 yards away when I first saw him and about 30 yards when I shot. I don't think I can chamber a round and thump the safety at that distance without him knowing it.

300magman
September 27, 2009, 11:35 AM
Well it seems I've really kicked over a hornets nest with this topic. But I'm really not trying to bash the safety as an overall design, its just the finer points of the design that seem to need some better execution.

Please Note: I bought the rifle because, of all the choices I had it was the smoothest feel, tightest fit and finish, and lightest rifle with full length barrel...OF the choices I had. (and not considering the safety...I figure its fixable)
I handled 2 and bought the one that had the best feeling and lightest safetly. I just measured it, the safetly requires 16.2lbs of force to move. Would you use a trigger that required 16.2lbs to pull or would you call it the worst invention in creation :rolleyes:

I really didn't want to come here and start some kind of debate, I really hoped someone could point me to an aftermarket part that is easier on the thumb (after a few flips of the safety at the store yesterday, my thumb actually had a notch in it)
And I would love an educated oppinion as the weather the safety is something your average guy with a bit of care, knowledge and skill could disassemble and massage slightly or if it is one of those rare complex mechanisms that only a highly trained gunsmith should be attempting to work on.

BTW, the trigger breaks at 3.9lbs (slightly more than the factory advertises) but it still feels very good and it is supposed to be adjustable so I will be giving it a slight tweek shortly to see if I can get it down to 3 and still keep the same feel.

Steve in PA
September 27, 2009, 11:44 AM
I have a 25+ year old Model 70 and I love the safety. Never had a problem or issue with it.

I always thought the Model 70's safety was bragged about as being super! Who knew so many people were wrong! :rolleyes:

ZeroJunk
September 27, 2009, 12:09 PM
I'm not bashing the Model 70. It is the only rifle that I use. But, there are QC problems on some of them or a concious decision to make the detents deeper and tighter for liability reasons, not sure which.

troy_mclure
September 27, 2009, 01:02 PM
i read somewhere about a safety replacement. its just a flush bar, so there is no safety.

or you can remove the safety, and put more angle on the detent.grooves, so its not so steep/hard to push.

j.chappell
September 27, 2009, 01:26 PM
I have hunted with everything from early military rifles to Remington's, Winchester's, Weatherby's, Ruger's, FN's, Browning's and a few others.

Never have had an animal spook at the sound of a safety. I have had to almost yell at deer to get them to stop for a shot. Maybe the sharp snap that may result from a tight safety startles a deer more readily than a voice but again most deer, if not already aware of your presence, will simply freeze to locate and identify the noise before leaving the area.

Also if I have a loud safety I simply ease it off instead of clicking it off.
J.

troy_mclure
September 27, 2009, 01:31 PM
ive scared off a deer with a slipped hammer on a single shot 20ga, also scared one when my 500 came unlocked, and i tried to quietly move the slide forward to lock it.


maybe those of us that have had animals scared by mechanical noises live in a more heavily hunted area.

bufordtjustice
September 27, 2009, 01:48 PM
My last M70 took a bit of force to activate but I don't recall it being "excessive". I didn't care for what I would consider the range of motion of the safety but that amounts to personal preference.

I have subsequently developed a strong liking for the tang safety style on my brownings and steyr so that is what I will probably stick with.

As far as aftermarket parts or smoothing, maybe repeated use will smooth it out enough to save a gunsmith bill? I might try a few hundred of them first.

Kraigwy also had good advice with not carrying one in the chamber. That might be a good fix if you don't mind carrying a rifle that way. Once again, personal preference.

garryc
September 27, 2009, 05:33 PM
I currently only have one M70, I have never used the saftey on it. Maybe I'm just more experianced in the remington style, I like it better.

Art Eatman
September 28, 2009, 10:10 AM
I don't reckon that safety is all welded, so I'd just disassemble the rig and do some stoning or spring easing or whatever.

Or, just leave the bolt handle up until I'm ready to shoot. That's worked fine for many a decade. :)

300magman
September 28, 2009, 10:29 AM
Yup, I think that's the plan...I have a set of very small diamond hones with various "finishing" grits. I've had great success with them and a bit of patience in the past.
I think I have the only model 597 .22 that has never had an issue and I attribute it entirely to a bit of touching up.

Perhaps the design will not bother me so much when the safety is lightened, but the Shape of the switch is just a pain. Winchester has such an excellent design for thier bolt handle, if only that flat topped verticle rod on the safety was a similar "ball tip" handle I think it would be Much improved ergonomically.

mpd61
September 28, 2009, 10:31 AM
I equate the Safety on a rifle to the "emergency" or parking brake feature on an automobile. There if you need it. I personally defer to muzzle control and only use a safety when teaching firearms safety and always at the range.
Hunting alone is something else.
;)

300magman
September 28, 2009, 10:32 AM
On a side note, I haven't had the time to clean the gun up yet and take it to the range, but I have noted several nasty burs. The other identical gun at the shop had 2 LARGE sharp burs around the floor plate that could easily slice a finger wide open, and my rifle seems to have a bur on the bottom side of the action that slices deeply into the brass of a cartridge as it is being pushed forward by the bolt on its way from the magazine to the chamber.
I hope the barrel/chamber area has been finished to a much higher standard than the rest of the action...the burs don't bother me much, again my hones will smooth them right out, but I am slightly disappointed to have to start filling on a shiny new gun as it will likely leave bright, unblued patches on the otherwise darkly blued action.
My experience with cold blueing has always been that it looks terrible, but perhaps for just a small dot where a bur was it won't be too bad...I wouldn't do it at all, but I don't want a rust spot to form, and I'm assuming a bit of blueing will help protect the exposed metal (not sure if that is a correct assumption though)

ZeroJunk
September 28, 2009, 12:18 PM
Is it a Conn. rifle or one of the new ones made in S.C.?
I was hoping that the new ones would be top notch.

300magman
September 28, 2009, 12:58 PM
I can find no mention of it on winchesters new website, but it is supposed to be this years "shot show special". As far as I can tell it is new production and basically the exact same gun as the "Model 70 Coyote Light" only with a fancy laminate stock that is heavily vented in the forend and ported out in the rear....it is actually $100 or better cheaper though.