Help...Kahr PM9 or Ruger LCP

[ttheel]

I am probably going to walk out of the gunshop with one of these two small puppies on Monday. Let me tell you my thought process and see if anyone can give me some advise. I am looking for something easy to carry, that does not take up alot of space and is not very heavy. I know most folks are going to say that I am comparing apples to oranges because one is a 9 and one is a .380. The fact of the matter is that I am not going to carry it if it is to big. Probably will either carry it in the pocket or on the ankle. On one hand I look at the PM9 and I think, well its about as small as you are going to get in 9mm and that it packs much more punch than a .380. It should be extremely easy to carry on the ankle but I am not so sure about the pocket. On the other hand the tiny LCP can easily be carried in the front pocket without feeling like there is a paper weight in it but I would be sacrificing more in the power factor. I have been contemplating this for quite some time and I am settled on one of these two weapons. A local gunshop owner and friend has got both in for me and I need to decide by Monday which I am going with. I kind of got the feeling that he leans toward the Kahr but he also said that I could buy two LCP's for the price of the Kahr. Between these two guns and under my circumstances, what do you guy's think. Any discussion is appeciated.

[Bigjim3]

You cant go wronge with a kahr. 9mm is easyer to find ammo now and practice with it. 380 is harder to find and when you do :eek: they want a sack full of money for it. I have a kahr K40 and love it.

[hdawson228]

My Kahr CW9 has been perfect out of the box. I forget I'm carrying. Because of my aging eyes, I've added the Crimson Trace laser. Sweet.:cool:

[LanceOregon]

Whichever gun you get, be sure to get the Crimson Trace LaserGuard laser sight for it. It is a fantastic sight for a pocket pistol like these two guns.

Here is what it looks like on the Ruger LCP:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/CrimsonTrace-LCP/DSC05201.jpg


Another photo of it about to be installed:

http://www.gunblast.com/images/CrimsonTrace-LCP/DSC05184.jpg


And here it is on my Kahr PM9:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/ctlaser_PM9_on.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/ct_laser_PM9_close_on.jpg


It is amazing how big and bright this laser is.


Whatever you do, don't buy the 5 shot single action .22 caliber NAA Minirevolver:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/guns/bush.jpg

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[Ace_Breaker]

You cant go wronge with a kahr.

Funny. I almost don't want to comment on how terrible the P45 I owned was. Dropping mags while firing, FTF, FTE, just one of the most unreliable weapons I've ever owned. The response from Kahr was to put 500 rounds through it for break in. Oh sure, I'll just run down to the range and drop hundreds and hundreds into .45 ammo just to see if it will work. And it's not Smith & Wesson or Ruger customer service either. Gun purchase and warranty proof is asked for unlike the other companies who go out of their way to get you up and running again quickly. How about making a product that works when we spend our hard earned money on it. The plastic is also on the same level as Taurus. Very cheap feeling. It was splintering and material build up from heat. No thanks! I've heard the metal framed gun are better but I don't speak from experience on them.

The LCP works fantastic for me. It conceals better and costs less than Kahr. I just throw it in the pocket holster or ankle rig and it vanishes. I think it's an outstanding little gun. Oh, and it works!

[DasFriek]

Im not sure about all the info is needed here,do you currently carry? Or have any previous experience?
I ask as most people wont wear an ankle holster,police will as they are about out of places to put one.
Add that and the cost of the Kahr i say get the .380 and see how that goes and if your carry habits support it go back and buy the Kahr later.
I feel if you maximize your chances to carry now it would encourage further carrying in the future.And if you get the Kahr you may not carry it as much due to its size,and add you will pay twice what the LCP cost you may even get discouraged about wasted money.

Also if you must have a more expensive gun like the Kahr,look at the Sig P238.
Its in between these 2 in size,but high quality and looks great also.

[Phoebe]

I bought the PM9 not that long ago, for many of the reasons you cite. I wanted something that I'd have no excuse to leave at home.

The PM9 feels cheap to me. It's been a fight to learn to shoot it decently, though I had a great day at the range with it yesterday.

I have had some FTE/FTF issues with it, but I'm still in the 200rnd recommended breakin period. But I've had those issues on other PM9s. It may be due to limp wristing on my part.

I don't love the Kahr. But I wanted a 9mm in a small size, so for me, the choices were Kahr or Kel-Tec.

I wish Springfield made a gun the size of the Kahr with the features of my XD.

[Kiawah]

Carry PM9 in Don Hume Pocket Holster daily..... nice setup.

LCP is slightly smaller and weighs a little less, but it's also a 380 vs the Kahr 9mm.

I looked at both, bought the Kahr, and have been very pleased with it.


I suspect either one would be fine.

[headbangerJD]

The Kahr would be my choice mostly due to the fact that it shoots a bigger bullet and is not much bigger than the LCP. The Kahr I own (P40) has also been 100% reliable from day one, which is one reason I trust my life w/ it.

[redstategunnut]

My PM9 has been 100% perfect. Love it, carry it very often.

[Shadi Khalil]

I have a CW9 that works perfectly and have owned a MK9 that was just the same. I'm pretty sure I'll be getting a PM9 soon.

Go with the Kahr. It's the better caliber and easier to find..cheaper too.

[MLeake]

... I replaced the outer recoil spring, and the mag springs for my PM9 with Wolff springs. FTE problem rate has dropped to 1 incident in the last 200 rounds.

http://www.gunsprings.com/

Meanwhile, you're seeing why so many of us emphasized training for stoppage clearing drills if you selected an auto for your first firearm, back when you were asking for recommendations.

Cheers,

M

[Ace_Breaker]

My next step up from the LCP is the Walther PPS. I feel it is a much better made handgun than the Kahr and it shoots great.

[MLeake]

I've only dry-fired a PPS. Not sure how it is for reliability, but FWIW I liked the Kahr trigger better.

Also, not sure how the PPS is for accuracy, but I have no trouble shooting up the center of a target with a PM9 at any reasonable SD range.

[Ace_Breaker]

I had a few hiccups with the Walther initially where it did not go into battery fully a few times. No FTE or FTF. It ended up being a lube issue. It has been flawless since. Mine is in .40. Our range master shot it and felt it was the finest firearm he had tried in a long time. He was consistantly hitting a 4" metal plate from the 40 yard line standing with no support. I had challenged him to a little shoot off from that range thinking there was no way he'd hit it. Ding after ding I was shocked. I even managed to hit it a few times. I like the tenifer coating and the recoil is very easy to handle. It's a winner. My normal carry was an Hk P7. The Walther has taken over recent carry duties. Pictured L to R. Ruger LCP refinished. Walther PPS. P7 refinished.

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee359/Ace_Breaker/IMG_1050.jpg

[Jkinkade]

I have both the LCP,,,,,great little pocket gun!!

I have the Kahr P9 which is a really nice shooter and conceals very easily.

Myself,,,,I feel safer with the Kahr P9,,,,,,,,, either will serve you well.

[ttheel]

Jkinkade, I have a friend that is a law enforcement officer which has carried many many different weapons over the years and now he carries the P9 on his ankle. He absolutely loves it. I talked to him about both the PM9 and the LCP and his comment was the most important thing is to have something on you, it doesnt do you any good what kind of gun you have if it is to uncomfortable to carry. I have owned guns of all sort for many years but I just got my concealed carry permit about 8-9 months ago. I havent carried anything on me to this point because everything I have is just to big to be comfortable in my situation. Thus the reason which I have narrowed my search down to these two weapons.

[ttheel]

Kiawah, How does that setup with the PM9 and DH pocket holster feel? Is it at all to heavy? I don't want to feel like I am lugging a brick around in my pocket. I feel like the pocket is the most likely place that I would carry on a regular basis. Does the PM9 in the pocket ever get cumbersome?

[Sarge]

I'd buy the Kahr, knowing full well that a few of their guns have gone back to the factory for QC issues, usually related to mags, mag catches or funky feedramps. My son's CW40 was one such gun but since the factory sorted it out, it is a reliable little hideout gun.

Nice trigger, good sights and surprising accuracy for a small auto. I'd buy one in a heartbeat, probably a PM40. The magazines are all too damned expensive.

[TimNelson]

I have only shot the kahr but have held both. I could not get a good grip on the LCP. I love my PM9, no problems for me even in the first 200 rounds for the break-in period.

[orionengnr]

I own both.

I carried the PM9 for three years, front pocket carry. I moved up to the Kahr P45 IWB last Spring and have not gone back. For the record, I am not a large man (5'9", 145#, 50+ y.o.), nor do I have years of police department or other carry experience behind me.

I have owned two LCPs, and currently have one in the safe. I trust the function of the gun (unlike the four K-Ts I have owned) but honestly, I view the .380 cartridge as marginal at best.

I would carry the LCP if I couldn't carry anything else, but the PM9 relegates the LCP to the sidelines.

Doubt that I will ever sell my PM9--it is just too versatile. The LCP? Well, that remains to be seen. It's a neat little pistol, but...

[2cooltoolz]

I own both also:

PM9 in the pocket, every day. Requires a good belt, though, because it's not as light as the LCP, but still very pocketable.

The LCP is much thinner, lighter and easier to carry. The sights are pathetic (but then, it's a point and shoot, get off of me gun), and the trigger is a long awkward pull.

I have higher confidence in the 9X19 than the 9X17. The Kahr is a lot more gun, but costs twice as much. If I could only have one, it would be the Kahr all the way, regardless of price.
http://2cooltoolz.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/lcp.pm9.442.jpg.w560h420.jpg

[ttheel]

As far as pocket holsters, give me some good options for these two weapons. I hear good things about the DeSantis Nemesis holster for front pocket carry. Can I do better or is the Nemesis the best bet?

[Nykop]

I own both and carry both. the ruger is better as far as pocket carry the kahr is ok if I'm wearing jeans. I carry the ruger more in the summer when I'm wearing light shorts is does not weight down my pocket if I'm wearing jeans I take the kahr. I load 102gr remington golden saber for the ruger which i think would be decent s/d ammo for a 380. Why not buy the kahr pm9 now that the summer is over and buy the ruger next summer?

[bakon]

I own neither but plan on a LCP soon for ankle back up on duty. Got a Glock 23 with 4 clips as pimary gun but no good if I lose it to someone. so a small light gun for last resort is the niche to fill.

Now a little story. Had a sig 380, the P230 which is the same as a P232. Used to carrry it alll the time until I sold it for a Glock 27. No problems with the Glocks but... a hair too big for IWB to me. Too heavy, too long to wide. So it sits at home unless I put on a belt holster and cover it off duty. Too big for a BUG at work although my clips would work. Just cant hide it comfortable and like I said, only a little bigger.

So just got a 380 Colt Mustang pocketlite. Perfect. All metal, slightly lighter than G27, thinner, shorter. Goes everywhere. Happy again

So why not carry the Colt as BUG... too pretty. Need a plastic durable gun I dont care if it gets a mark on it.

Lesson- If its too anything, big, heavy ect, it wont be carried. Now I know the size of the bullet is important, but if you dont carry it, who cares.

[Air,Land&Sea]

That's easy. Between the two I'd get a no-ILS S&W 442/642.

[Mello2u]

http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
Above link shows pictures of some small handguns so you can compare size.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/farwalker/380_Auto_vs_9mm_Luger.jpg

.380acp:
90 gr JHP 1,000 ft/s 200 ft·lbf
95 gr FMJ 980 ft/s 203 ft·lbf

9mm parabellum:
123.5 gr FMJ 1,200 ft/s 382 ft·lbf
115.0 gr JHP +P+ 1,430 ft/s 519 ft·lbf

While the 9mm produces more than twice the energy that does not mean it will be twice as effective at stopping a a human threat. However, the 9mm should be significantly more effective in stopping a human threat than the .380acp.

[ttheel]

Well, I still have not decided. I keep going back and forth. I think maybe I would go ahead and take the plunge and buy the PM9 if I could be conviced that it will be comfortable to pocket carry. I just like the idea of having the more powerful 9mm on me. On the other hand though I wonder if I will be more inclined to "carry" the LCP because of its tiny size. A gun of any caliber on you is better than a 44 magnum sitting at home. I just keep flipping back and forth on the two. Any more opinions?

[MLeake]

The PM9 fits in my hand pretty well; I find the Kel-Tec and LCP to be uncomfortably small. One argument in favor of the PM9.

I can find 9mm ammo; I haven't seen much .380 ammo. Two arguments in favor of the PM9.

Recoil on the PM9 isn't bad; I've heard complaints about snappy recoil and slide bite on the Kel-Tec / LCP, but since I haven't experienced it personally I can't do a direct comparison. No argument either way.

The trigger on the PM9 is much nicer. Three argument in favor of the PM9.

All things being equal, the 9mm will do slightly more damage than the .380. Four arguments in favor of the PM9.

The Kel-Tec / LCP is much smaller and lighter, and will allow pocket carry in smaller pockets and lighter fabrics than will the PM9. One argument in favor of the Kel-Tec / LCP.

The Kel-Tec / LCP costs somewhat less than the PM9, if not a staggering amount less. However, this is offset by the higher cost of feeding the Kel-Tec / LCP, given the current cost of .380 ammo when one can find it. No argument either way.

For me, that's four arguments to one in favor of the PM9.

Cheers,

M

[Mello2u]

The only other option I can think of to solve this is to buy both. Then you have the option to carry either of both.

[ttheel]

Mello2u, I like your option alot......not sure the wife does though. Lol.

[MLeake]

... getting the PM9 now, going into cooler weather, when you'll wear heavier fabrics and more pockets; and then saving for the LCP for next summer, when you'll be in shorts.

Sounded like a good plan to me.

Cheers,

M

[dreamweaver]

So why not carry the Colt as BUG... too pretty. Need a plastic durable gun I dont care if it gets a mark on it.



I just bought a sig p238 so i can leave the mustang at home. theyre almost identical.
I actually sold a pm9 to get the sig.
i had no issues with the pm9. carried it in a smartcarry or iwb don hume. It's a great gun, but it need an extended break-in before it's reliable (at least mine did).
i think the 9mm is better for self defense, but the new hornady 380 is very impressive. hopefully the "shortage" of 380 defense rounds wont last.

[ttheel]

MLeake, that may be my best option. It kind of makes the most since right now heading into the colder months. It seems that most folks think that the PM9 is not to heavy to pocket carry, it is just heavier to pocket carry than the LCP. I may go ahead and go with the Kahr if I can get my hands to let go of $600 tommorrow.

[ImDisaster]

It all comes down to which one WILL you carry. The LCP is significantly smaller than the PM9...but the Kahr is still small. Which will you have with you all the time...when you need it. If you think you can carry the Kahr all the time...go for it. I went with the LCP because I wanted something I could carry 100% of the time. Still might get a Kahr for when I have more room.

[Jeremiah/Az]

I have the PM9 & the Kahr P380. I find the PM9 a little too heavy for pocket carry. The P380 is lighter & smaller. The grips on both are the same size with the P380 being shorter & more narrow. I agree the 380 is minimal,but ------.

[larryh1108]

I have the PM9 and the LCP. I love them both for what they do. The PM9 is by far the better gun but it costs twice as much.

As others have stated, try finding .380 ammo right now and the savings you would have with the LCP would be surpassed with ammo costs if you shoot it enough. Cost factor becomes even.

The PM9 is far more accurate due to the larger size and heavier weight. The LCP is definitely more for the 7'-10' range due to the small size and difficulty to control with the much heavier trigger (you tend to twist the LCP if you are not careful and under duress little things make a big difference). I can hit what I aim at up to 75' with the PM9 and only 25' with the LCP (same spread).

The PM9 has a much more tame recoil but for a 9mm it is snappy in it's own right compared to the heavier 9s. Recoil doesn't bother me but the LCP has a much more harsh "bark" than the PM9 in the recoil department. Again, it's due to the smaller grip and lighter weight.

The LCP disappears in your pocket and you forget it's there. It is the perfect "pocket pistol". If you practice enough with the LCP you can become proficient with it. I have 1200+ rounds thru my LCP and am still dialing it in. I have 2000+ rounds thru my PM9 and it is my favorite gun. It is a joy to shoot.

The PM9 is a lot heavier in your pocket. You know it's there. You do need to wear a belt to keep your pants up. If you had a belt holster it would be no contest, the PM9 would be the easy winner.

I carry the LCP in my pocket every day because you forget it's there. I carry it in a wallet holster. I also have a wallet holster for my PM9 and Glock 33. Both of those are a tad bit too big for wallet carry. I don't like front pocket carry but that's me. You may prefer it.

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/LCP/LCPWallet111.jpg

[trimore]

Buy both. I did.

I just got back from a brisk walk in the night for some exersize. I usually wear stretchy fitness shorts with front pockets. I carried my LCP in a Desantis front pocket holster. I basically forgot it was there.

I could have carried the PM9 but it would be noticably heavier and probably bounce around more.

I think they are sized differently enough that each has it place.

If the answer is truely just one, then I would get the Kahr.

[rsxr22]

i would probably take the PM9 over the LCP, but i sold my PM9 for a PPS.

[ttheel]

I ended up going with the LCP. I will tell you, when I walked into the store I had made my mind up that I was going to buy the Kahr unless something really major changed my mind. Once i had both of them laying in front of me i held both in my hand and kept going back and forth. I put both in my pocked and I began to really question myself. The LCP was like putting a wallet in your pocket and the pm9 despite its small size for a 9mm still felt like a paper weight in my pocket. Then one of the guys at the gunshop pulled a kel tec P3at out of his front pocket and handed me his pocket holster and said "try it." I stuck the little Ruger in the holster and slid it in my front pocket and was amazed. Then it became evident to myself that I would be much more likely to pick the LCP up and carry it because of the disappearing act it provides, not to mention the comfort. Dont get me wrong the Kahr is an excelllent pistol and I had mixed emotions but once I "felt" the difference it became obvious.....I would carry the LCP on almost any occassion, so I took it with me. I have not shot it yet but a friend of mine(a local law enforcement officer) carries one on his ankle and he dearly loves it. He said he wouldnt trade anything for it because he almost forgets it's there, not to mention he says it is doggone accurate for its tiny size.

[Van55]

I bought one of the early LCP's and found it effortless to pocket carry. I wasn't a very accurate shot with it, and it didn't feel comfortable in my hand.

Still seeking the perfect pocket carry pistol, I ignored the negative posts about the Kahr PM9 and bought one. Unfortunately, it was one of Kahr's (too many) lemons with constant failures to feed and jams even after the 200 round break-in period. Had to send it back to the factory where they lubed it and re-polished the feed ramp. I'm still not 100% confident in it.

It you never forget it's in your pocket if that's how you carry, but it's not a burden to carry. It fits more naturally in my hand than the LCP. I like the 9mm cartridge better then .380, and if I truly believed it would function 100% of the time, I'd call it the perfect compromise of size, caliber and accuracy among the various choices.

[ttheel]

Van55, I also liked the way the pm9 felt in my hand. I am in no way bad mouthing it. It is just that once I tried them both in my pocket the tide started to shift to the LCP. As much as I wanted to buy the Kahr I could not get over the unbelievable comfort of the LCP in my pocket. That combined with the fact that I also liked how the LCP felt in my hand just kind of won me over. Like I said in the other post, it is not a knock against the Kahr it is just that I was looking for a true "pocket" pistol and in my estimation I made the right choice.

[LanceOregon]

The biggest thing that I dislike about the LCP are the crude sights. They just plain suck.

I know that folks say that sights are not that important on a close range defense gun like this. And people have certainly demonstrated that the LCP is a fairly accurate gun, clearly good for a gun of its type.

If I were to carry a LCP, I would be sure to add the Crimson Trace LaserGuard to it, as that will solve the sight problem immensely. The good news is that you can buy both the Ruger LCP and the Crimson Trace, and still save money over what the Kahr would have cost you.

To pocket carry my Kahr PM9, I specifically wear slacks and shorts that have big roomy pockets. Not all pants pockets are the same in size. I'm sure that the LCP will fit fine in just about any pocket size, no matter what you are wearing. While folks that carry the Kahr like I do, have to be selective in what we wear.

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[ttheel]

Lance that is what I finally figured out, I was going to have to be selective in what I wore. I really like the pm9, I just wanted the ease of not having to worry about that. If I were going to conceal on my ankle or IWB, I dont think I would have noticed as much difference. Under those circumstances chances are that I would have got the Kahr. But for what it is designed to be(pocket pistol) I think the LCP is a tough little pup.

[LanceOregon]

Here is a real cool video of a range test firing of leading pocket .380 pistols.

http://gunreviews.net/Articles.php?action=detail&g=content1252136343

It is amazing how soft shooting the LCP looks to be in this video, despite its light weight. And it shot pretty accurately, too.

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[orionengnr]

Again, I own both, and the PM9 is the one that gets carried. Took the LCP to the range yesterday and it just re-inforces the fact that this is not a range gun. By the time you have burned through 50 rounds, you are ready to quit. I seriously doubt that many people practice with their LCP/P3ATs--they just stick them in their pockets. Especially with the price and availability of .380 ammo.

You can actually shoot the PM9, 100-150 rounds during a range session are fairly easy. I've done it a number of times.

Enjoy your LCP, but if you get a chance to get a PM9, you won't regret it.

I look at the PM9 and I think, well its about as small as you are going to get in 9mm and that it packs much more punch than a .380. It should be extremely easy to carry on the ankle but I am not so sure about the pocket.

No way I would ankle carry the PM9 or any j-frame, but some people do....

[ttheel]

Orion, that is pretty much why I picked the LCP. I was strickly looking for a pocket carry gun, not a range weapon. If I want to go to the range and put 100 rounds through the mill I will take my Sig P228. It will shoot all day long with no failures from any ammo with very little felt recoil. As I said before, I really like the Kahr and nearly bought it. I just felt that given my circumstances the LCP fit the bill a bit better. I am in no way saying it is a better weapon.

[DAdams]

Pocket Carry...now that the decision has been made.

My preference for what its worth.

Tie
M&P 340 J frame. .357
Seecamp .380 for the discriminating carry. ;)
Then...
Kahr PM9.

[LanceOregon]

Kahr PM9 next to a S&W J frame 340:


http://www.gunblast.com/images/Kahr-PM9/DSC02415.jpg

[hdawson228]

Lance. I'll take the Kahr, thank you. :D

[BryanP]

I don't have an LCP, but here's my experience with my PM9:


Pocket carries just as easily as my S&W 638 J frame.

Recoil is negligible. Compared to putting even standard pressure .38spl through an airweight snubbie it's a pussycat.

Accuracy is quite acceptable. You won't see the groups you can get from a full sized pistol, but that's to be expected.

On the one hand the PM9 is considerably more expensive than the LCP.

On the other hand you can actually find 9mm ammo.